1/10 - POSTGAME | Oklahoma City Thunder (88) - (104) Minnesota Timberwolves

[NOOB77]

What happened to the "Hawk" set. They did a little preview on it before one of the games forget which one maybe Tues? And the last two games I dont remember seeing it once at all. Seems strange they would go away from something that has been a very successful play for them and puts people in the places they like to get the ball.

[thekaoswithin]

It's completely beyond me why Billy "I have Vegeta's hair line but none of his swagger" Donovan is still allowed to coach us, it's awful.

How can we all see that Melo needs to be benched when he's not hitting shots, but he can't?

Why did we even sign Patterson if we refuse to play him?

[NOOB77]

The problem is if you bench Melo Billy will play Grant more so it would actually get worse.

[getrichordie]

These guys just dont fit.

Who does fit? Oladipo and Sabonis didn’t fit. Now Patterson, George and Melo don’t fit.

Not many players fit well with a ultra high-usage point guard.


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[ThunderBolt]

These guys just dont fit.

Who does fit? Oladipo and Sabonis didn’t fit. Now Patterson, George and Melo don’t fit.

Not many players fit well with a ultra high-usage point guard.


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Houston seems to have found some. Maybe it’s the pg, maybe it’s the coach. I don’t know or care anymore.

[bondom34]

These guys just dont fit.

Who does fit? Oladipo and Sabonis didn’t fit. Now Patterson, George and Melo don’t fit.

Not many players fit well with a ultra high-usage point guard.


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Oddly he's barely ahead Curry in usage. They seem ok. And Harden's usage is higher. Hm, almost like you're wrong again. But stay on character. Its never anyone else's fault. I'm not even sure when you're serious anymore.

[Funcrusher]

These guys just dont fit.

Who does fit? Oladipo and Sabonis didn’t fit. Now Patterson, George and Melo don’t fit.

Not many players fit well with a ultra high-usage point guard.


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[hardenASG13]

These guys just dont fit.

Who does fit? Oladipo and Sabonis didn’t fit. Now Patterson, George and Melo don’t fit.

Not many players fit well with a ultra high-usage point guard.


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Is he high usage strictly by choice, or out of necessity.? They don't have an offense. They run 1 hitter sets, and rely on him to create magic. That's always been the thunder way, they just have had so much talent that it has kind of worked. It's a shame but why I always maintain hope for them. They could play way better than this, if run like any other good NBA team.

[NOOB77]

It is the coach not Russ

[getrichordie]

Who does fit? Oladipo and Sabonis didn’t fit. Now Patterson, George and Melo don’t fit.

Not many players fit well with a ultra high-usage point guard.


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Oddly he's barely ahead Curry in usage. They seem ok. And Harden's usage is higher. Hm, almost like you're wrong again. But stay on character. Its never anyone else's fault. I'm not even sure when you're serious anymore.

Re-read my original post.

[Funcrusher]

Not many players fit well with a ultra high-usage point guard.


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Oddly he's barely ahead Curry in usage. They seem ok. And Harden's usage is higher. Hm, almost like you're wrong again. But stay on character. Its never anyone else's fault. I'm not even sure when you're serious anymore.

Re-read my original post.

What is there to re-read?

[getrichordie]

Oddly he's barely ahead Curry in usage. They seem ok. And Harden's usage is higher. Hm, almost like you're wrong again. But stay on character. Its never anyone else's fault. I'm not even sure when you're serious anymore.

Re-read my original post.

What is there to re-read?

Well, I said, “not many players” fit well with a high usage point-guard.

Bondom proceeded to say that Westbrook is barely ahead of Curry and Harden is usage rate which has no bearing on my original statement. Harden and Curry are much better shooters than Westbrook and also are surrounded by better and more off-ball shooters (Thompson, Durant, Anderson, Gordon, Ariza, Paul, etc.) whereas Westbrook is surrounded by a non-shooters (Roberson, Grant, Huestis) and players who are better with the ball in their hands rather than players who aren’t really known as off-ball players besides Patterson.

Presti just hasn’t been able to go out and get the 3&D players needed to surround Westbrook outside of George.

I guess I could have made a more accurate statement.

It’s hard to get the lot of off-ball 3&D players needed to compensate for Westbrook’s high-usage, low-TS%, poor 3-pt %, no-defense playing style.


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[Funcrusher]

Re-read my original post.

What is there to re-read?

Well, I said, “not many players” fit well with a high usage point-guard.

Bondom proceeded to say that Westbrook is barely ahead of Curry and Harden is usage rate which has no bearing on my original statement. Harden and Curry are much better shooters than Westbrook and also are surrounded by better and more off-ball shooters (Thompson, Durant, Anderson, Gordon, Ariza, Paul, etc.) whereas Westbrook is surrounded by a non-shooters (Roberson, Grant, Huestis) and players who are better with the ball in their hands rather than players who aren’t really known as off-ball players besides Patterson.

Presti just hasn’t been able to go out and get the 3&D players needed to surround Westbrook outside of George.

I guess I could have made a more accurate statement.

It’s hard to get the lot of off-ball 3&D players needed to compensate for Westbrook’s high-usage, low-TS%, poor 3-pt %, no-defense playing style.


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Blatantly not true, but okay. Also, not that hard to get 3&D players to build around a high usage player, unless you think Harden and Lebron are also anomalies, not to mention Kobe and Jordan before them. The fact that we don't have a roster that really compliments Westbrook is on Presti, who had silver in his hands and let it slip away on multiple occasions.

And regardless, no level of talent is going to reach their ceiling in Bill's system, or lack thereof. Don't see why you continue to put the blame on Westbrook, who has had success in the past under a different coach, when it's been under Donovan that the team has underachieved at every step. But keep trolling about wanting Kyrie over Westbrook, because he's obviously the problem being the clear best player on the team.

[bondom34]

Re-read my original post.

What is there to re-read?

Well, I said, “not many players” fit well with a high usage point-guard.

Bondom proceeded to say that Westbrook is barely ahead of Curry and Harden is usage rate which has no bearing on my original statement. Harden and Curry are much better shooters than Westbrook and also are surrounded by better and more off-ball shooters (Thompson, Durant, Anderson, Gordon, Ariza, Paul, etc.) whereas Westbrook is surrounded by a non-shooters (Roberson, Grant, Huestis) and players who are better with the ball in their hands rather than players who aren’t really known as off-ball players besides Patterson.

Presti just hasn’t been able to go out and get the 3&D players needed to surround Westbrook outside of George.

I guess I could have made a more accurate statement.

It’s hard to get the lot of off-ball 3&D players needed to compensate for Westbrook’s high-usage, low-TS%, poor 3-pt %, no-defense playing style.


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So you're saying that other teams are better. Duh.
Also, try this:

Average efficiency (You should probably check the numbers before using terms that are blatantly incorrect for his career)
Slightly below average shooting
Average defense ( I mean we have literally everything saying he's at worst similar to Curry here and his team seems fine, and better than Harden on that end, but sure you do you)
High usage


At the least attempt to use facts man, its bad. Like really bad. You've said you don't like him before but just making crap up doesn't improve your point it just looks bad.

Also, take note, when he's actually on court the team is doing quite well so it seems like maybe players do fit with him and the problem is that nobody else can run an offense without him because (shock!) there's no system in place by the coach!

When those other guys go to the bench:
Curry on the bench: GSW a +2.9 net rating and 108.1 O rating (this team runs an offense, and its coach has installed a great system)

Harden on bench: HOU a +3.1 net rating and 110.7 O rating (this team runs an offense and its coach has installed a great system)

NOTE: Harden did at one time have a coach without an offense or any semblance of a system. His last year? HOU had a -5.9 net rating and 101.8 O rating when he was on the bench.

Westbrook on the bench: OKC a -7.3 net rating and 99.9 O rating (this team lacks any semblance of an offense and it's coach notably said he'd assumed his players could "Figure it out"). When he's on court that jumps to a 5.9.

Yeah, right. It's all the players. The coach is brilliant.

Hm. If you're going to keep this thing up, at least fact check. And maybe try to look at what's going on out there.

[getrichordie]

What is there to re-read?

Well, I said, “not many players” fit well with a high usage point-guard.

Bondom proceeded to say that Westbrook is barely ahead of Curry and Harden is usage rate which has no bearing on my original statement. Harden and Curry are much better shooters than Westbrook and also are surrounded by better and more off-ball shooters (Thompson, Durant, Anderson, Gordon, Ariza, Paul, etc.) whereas Westbrook is surrounded by a non-shooters (Roberson, Grant, Huestis) and players who are better with the ball in their hands rather than players who aren’t really known as off-ball players besides Patterson.

Presti just hasn’t been able to go out and get the 3&D players needed to surround Westbrook outside of George.

I guess I could have made a more accurate statement.

It’s hard to get the lot of off-ball 3&D players needed to compensate for Westbrook’s high-usage, low-TS%, poor 3-pt %, no-defense playing style.


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So you're saying that other teams are better. Duh.
Also, try this:

Average efficiency (You should probably check the numbers before using terms that are blatantly incorrect for his career)
Slightly below average shooting
Average defense ( I mean we have literally everything saying he's at worst similar to Curry here and his team seems fine, and better than Harden on that end, but sure you do you)
High usage


At the least attempt to use facts man, its bad. Like really bad. You've said you don't like him before but just making crap up doesn't improve your point it just looks bad.

Also, take note, when he's actually on court the team is doing quite well so it seems like maybe players do fit with him and the problem is that nobody else can run an offense without him because (shock!) there's no system in place by the coach!

When those other guys go to the bench:
Curry on the bench: GSW a +2.9 net rating and 108.1 O rating (this team runs an offense, and its coach has installed a great system)

Harden on bench: HOU a +3.1 net rating and 110.7 O rating (this team runs an offense and its coach has installed a great system)

NOTE: Harden did at one time have a coach without an offense or any semblance of a system. His last year? HOU had a -5.9 net rating and 101.8 O rating when he was on the bench.

Westbrook on the bench: OKC a -7.3 net rating and 99.9 O rating (this team lacks any semblance of an offense and it's coach notably said he'd assumed his players could "Figure it out"). When he's on court that jumps to a 5.9.

Yeah, right. It's all the players. The coach is brilliant.

Hm. If you're going to keep this thing up, at least fact check. And maybe try to look at what's going on out there.

Compared to other players with his usage %, Westbrook’s TS% is low.

And you can say he is a league average defender all you want and I’m sure the numbers show that because he has the luxury of playing with 3 good defenders most of the time. Sometimes the eye test is right.

And as you said, of course our bench is going to be awful when you compare it to HOU and GSW.

We have a fat Felton and Grant playing at center and then Abrines and Ferguson who are essentially newbies to the NBA. Huestis, who is essentially a rookie. And Patterson who many Toronto fans have said is overrated but us OKC fans say he SHOULD be good, right? Awesome bench.

You can’t expect to bake a cake when you don’t even have the ingredients.

All that NetRtg says is that our starters are good and our bench is bad and that Westbrook is better than Felton. Shocker.


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[Funcrusher]

Compared to other players with his usage %, Westbrook’s TS% is low.

And you can say he is a league average defender all you want and I’m sure the numbers show that because he has the luxury of playing with 3 good defenders most of the time. Sometimes the eye test is right.

And as you said, of course our bench is going to be awful when you compare it to HOU and GSW.

We have a fat Felton and Grant playing at center and then Abrines and Ferguson who are essentially newbies to the NBA. Huestis, who is essentially a rookie. And Patterson who many Toronto fans have said is overrated but us OKC fans say he SHOULD be good, right? Awesome bench.

You can’t expect to bake a cake when you don’t even have the ingredients.

All that NetRtg says is that our starters are good and our bench is bad and that Westbrook is better than Felton. Shocker.


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The eye test says he's an average defender. Lol, are you seriously gonna argue Westbrook is a negative impact defender? And instead of below average TS%, now it's below average TS% compared to players with similar usage? You're moving goalposts.

Also you're last point is just blatantly wrong and short sided. You realize Westbrook doesn't just play with the starting unit, right? And that in general lineups with Westbrook have a positive offensive rating/net rating?

[getrichordie]

Well, I said, “not many players” fit well with a high usage point-guard.

Bondom proceeded to say that Westbrook is barely ahead of Curry and Harden is usage rate which has no bearing on my original statement. Harden and Curry are much better shooters than Westbrook and also are surrounded by better and more off-ball shooters (Thompson, Durant, Anderson, Gordon, Ariza, Paul, etc.) whereas Westbrook is surrounded by a non-shooters (Roberson, Grant, Huestis) and players who are better with the ball in their hands rather than players who aren’t really known as off-ball players besides Patterson.

Presti just hasn’t been able to go out and get the 3&D players needed to surround Westbrook outside of George.

I guess I could have made a more accurate statement.

It’s hard to get the lot of off-ball 3&D players needed to compensate for Westbrook’s high-usage, low-TS%, poor 3-pt %, no-defense playing style.


Sent from my iPhone using RealGM mobile app

So you're saying that other teams are better. Duh.
Also, try this:

Average efficiency (You should probably check the numbers before using terms that are blatantly incorrect for his career)
Slightly below average shooting
Average defense ( I mean we have literally everything saying he's at worst similar to Curry here and his team seems fine, and better than Harden on that end, but sure you do you)
High usage


At the least attempt to use facts man, its bad. Like really bad. You've said you don't like him before but just making crap up doesn't improve your point it just looks bad.

Also, take note, when he's actually on court the team is doing quite well so it seems like maybe players do fit with him and the problem is that nobody else can run an offense without him because (shock!) there's no system in place by the coach!

When those other guys go to the bench:
Curry on the bench: GSW a +2.9 net rating and 108.1 O rating (this team runs an offense, and its coach has installed a great system)

Harden on bench: HOU a +3.1 net rating and 110.7 O rating (this team runs an offense and its coach has installed a great system)

NOTE: Harden did at one time have a coach without an offense or any semblance of a system. His last year? HOU had a -5.9 net rating and 101.8 O rating when he was on the bench.

Westbrook on the bench: OKC a -7.3 net rating and 99.9 O rating (this team lacks any semblance of an offense and it's coach notably said he'd assumed his players could "Figure it out"). When he's on court that jumps to a 5.9.

Yeah, right. It's all the players. The coach is brilliant.

Hm. If you're going to keep this thing up, at least fact check. And maybe try to look at what's going on out there.

Compared to other players with his usage %, Westbrook’s TS% is low.

And you can say he is a league average defender all you want and I’m sure the numbers show that because he has the luxury of playing with 3 good defenders most of the time. Sometimes the eye test is right.

And as you said, of course our bench is going to be awful when you compare it to HOU and GSW.

We have a fat Felton and Grant playing at center and then Abrines and Ferguson who are essentially newbies to the NBA. Huestis, who is essentially a rookie. And Patterson who many Toronto fans have said is overrated but us OKC fans say he SHOULD be good, right? Awesome bench.

You can’t expect to bake a cake when you don’t even have the ingredients.

All that NetRtg says is that our starters are good and our bench is bad and that Westbrook is better than Felton. Shocker.

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EDIT: Also, Westbrook’s eFG% has always been lower than league average. His TS% has been close to league average in recent seasons he’s played, whether slightly above or below.

I don’t think it’s a good thing to have an average shooter shooting the most shots on our team and not playing defense.

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[getrichordie]

Compared to other players with his usage %, Westbrook’s TS% is low.

And you can say he is a league average defender all you want and I’m sure the numbers show that because he has the luxury of playing with 3 good defenders most of the time. Sometimes the eye test is right.

And as you said, of course our bench is going to be awful when you compare it to HOU and GSW.

We have a fat Felton and Grant playing at center and then Abrines and Ferguson who are essentially newbies to the NBA. Huestis, who is essentially a rookie. And Patterson who many Toronto fans have said is overrated but us OKC fans say he SHOULD be good, right? Awesome bench.

You can’t expect to bake a cake when you don’t even have the ingredients.

All that NetRtg says is that our starters are good and our bench is bad and that Westbrook is better than Felton. Shocker.


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The eye test says he's an average defender. Lol, are you seriously gonna argue Westbrook is a negative impact defender? And instead of below average TS%, now it's below average TS% compared to players with similar usage? You're moving goalposts.

Also you're last point is just blatantly wrong and short sided. You realize Westbrook doesn't just play with the starting unit, right? And that in general lineups with Westbrook have a positive offensive rating/net rating?

We can agree to disagree on the eye test. And I’m not trying to move goalposts. I guess I should have specified that when I talk about Westbrook, I am comparing him to other superstars.


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[bondom34]

So you're saying that other teams are better. Duh.
Also, try this:

Average efficiency (You should probably check the numbers before using terms that are blatantly incorrect for his career)
Slightly below average shooting
Average defense ( I mean we have literally everything saying he's at worst similar to Curry here and his team seems fine, and better than Harden on that end, but sure you do you)
High usage


At the least attempt to use facts man, its bad. Like really bad. You've said you don't like him before but just making crap up doesn't improve your point it just looks bad.

Also, take note, when he's actually on court the team is doing quite well so it seems like maybe players do fit with him and the problem is that nobody else can run an offense without him because (shock!) there's no system in place by the coach!

When those other guys go to the bench:
Curry on the bench: GSW a +2.9 net rating and 108.1 O rating (this team runs an offense, and its coach has installed a great system)

Harden on bench: HOU a +3.1 net rating and 110.7 O rating (this team runs an offense and its coach has installed a great system)

NOTE: Harden did at one time have a coach without an offense or any semblance of a system. His last year? HOU had a -5.9 net rating and 101.8 O rating when he was on the bench.

Westbrook on the bench: OKC a -7.3 net rating and 99.9 O rating (this team lacks any semblance of an offense and it's coach notably said he'd assumed his players could "Figure it out"). When he's on court that jumps to a 5.9.

Yeah, right. It's all the players. The coach is brilliant.

Hm. If you're going to keep this thing up, at least fact check. And maybe try to look at what's going on out there.

Compared to other players with his usage %, Westbrook’s TS% is low.

And you can say he is a league average defender all you want and I’m sure the numbers show that because he has the luxury of playing with 3 good defenders most of the time. Sometimes the eye test is right.

And as you said, of course our bench is going to be awful when you compare it to HOU and GSW.

We have a fat Felton and Grant playing at center and then Abrines and Ferguson who are essentially newbies to the NBA. Huestis, who is essentially a rookie. And Patterson who many Toronto fans have said is overrated but us OKC fans say he SHOULD be good, right? Awesome bench.

You can’t expect to bake a cake when you don’t even have the ingredients.

All that NetRtg says is that our starters are good and our bench is bad and that Westbrook is better than Felton. Shocker.

Sent from my iPhone using RealGM mobile app

EDIT: Also, Westbrook’s eFG% has always been lower than league average. His TS% has been close to league average in recent seasons he’s played, whether slightly above or below.

I don’t think it’s a good thing to have an average shooter shooting the most shots on our team and not playing defense.

Sent from my iPhone using RealGM mobile app

You can think what you'd like, because clearly it's separate from reality, but reality is that he's had the most impact on offense of almost any player in the NBA. It doesn't matter what he's shooting, because frankly offensive ability isn't measured by TS or eFG. If it was, Tyson Chandler would be the best offensive player in history. I hope you don't think that too, but by your current logic you do. Usage also isn't only related to shots taken, and him having the near same Ortg as Kevin bleeping Durant in 2016 when only 1 of the 2 is on court should be blatantly obvious to anyone with sense that his offensive impact isn't his shooting. He's got the impact of Durant and you're pissing about shooting. To add, Curry's playing with a DPOY, Klay, Durant, and Zaza. There's not a bad defender there, and Harden with multiple elite defenders . So using supporting cast is garbage. Everything we have says he's a fine defender except you, who continually divorced from factual debate, seems to ramble about negatives. He plays defense, and everything points to him being fine on that end except your rants on him. Just admit you hate him at this point, you'd honestly rather a bunch of crap players with the garbage coach Presti's brilliant mind found, its pretty obvious to see.

You can bake a cake with the ingredients there. The problem is the baker is only familiar with an EZ bake oven. Which is exactly why when Houston went from a bad coach to a good one, they improved. OKC is stuck with their crap coach.

[getrichordie]

Compared to other players with his usage %, Westbrook’s TS% is low.

And you can say he is a league average defender all you want and I’m sure the numbers show that because he has the luxury of playing with 3 good defenders most of the time. Sometimes the eye test is right.

And as you said, of course our bench is going to be awful when you compare it to HOU and GSW.

We have a fat Felton and Grant playing at center and then Abrines and Ferguson who are essentially newbies to the NBA. Huestis, who is essentially a rookie. And Patterson who many Toronto fans have said is overrated but us OKC fans say he SHOULD be good, right? Awesome bench.

You can’t expect to bake a cake when you don’t even have the ingredients.

All that NetRtg says is that our starters are good and our bench is bad and that Westbrook is better than Felton. Shocker.

Sent from my iPhone using RealGM mobile app

EDIT: Also, Westbrook’s eFG% has always been lower than league average. His TS% has been close to league average in recent seasons he’s played, whether slightly above or below.

I don’t think it’s a good thing to have an average shooter shooting the most shots on our team and not playing defense.

Sent from my iPhone using RealGM mobile app

You can think what you'd like, because clearly it's separate from reality, but reality is that he's had the most impact on offense of almost any player in the NBA. It doesn't matter what he's shooting, because frankly offensive ability isn't measured by TS or eFG. If it was, Tyson Chandler would be the best offensive player in history. I hope you don't think that too, but by your current logic you do. Usage also isn't only related to shots taken, and him having the near same Ortg as Kevin bleeping Durant in 2016 when only 1 of the 2 is on court should be blatantly obvious to anyone with sense that his offensive impact isn't his shooting. He's got the impact of Durant and you're pissing about shooting. To add, Curry's playing with a DPOY, Klay, Durant, and Zaza. There's not a bad defender there, and Harden with multiple elite defenders . So using supporting cast is garbage. Everything we have says he's a fine defender except you, who continually divorced from factual debate, seems to ramble about negatives. He plays defense, and everything points to him being fine on that end except your rants on him. Just admit you hate him at this point, you'd honestly rather a bunch of crap players with the garbage coach Presti's brilliant mind found, its pretty obvious to see.

You can bake a cake with the ingredients there. The problem is the baker is only familiar with an EZ bake oven. Which is exactly why when Houston went from a bad coach to a good one, they improved. OKC is stuck with their crap coach.

There's a ceiling on this team with Westbrook running the show and anyone who has played or watched a significant amount of basketball realizes that. Westbrook is just a slightly worse but higher usage version of Iverson. He's fun to watch and plays with a lot of heart, but he will never win a 'ship.

Also, to respond to you saying HOU got so much better with D'Antoni. I'm laughing so hard right now. Do you not realize they went out and got 3 lights out shooters? Gordon, Anderson, AND Lou Williams? The roster was stacked with shooters in D'Antoni's first year and Morey knew D'Antoni would be perfect for this squad.