Fall of 2020-21 OKC Thunder Offseason Thread- Rebuild or Maintain?

[ThunderBolt]

For me, even if we are a middle of the pack playoff team I can be content if I can see a path towards improvement. That’s why I was so frustrated the last two years, not only because were weren’t good enough but the team realistically had no path towards improving the roster because assets were lacking.

I kind of envision us rebuilding with a team similar to what the pacers have done since George left. They don’t have any top 5-10 players but they have a lot of really good guys and a couple of lower tier all stars. Unfortunately they weren’t able to stay healthy the last two years and it looks like it’s going to hit the fan now.

[kdthunderup]

SGA: Improved a lot in his 2nd year. I still compare him to a Horford version of a guard/wing. Solid all round player but no elite skill. I think in his prime he could be the 2nd fiddle on a championship team.

Probably an accurate comparison, but let's assume that's what he is, even going forward: Do you really think that makes him the 2nd best player on a championship team? Is a team with Al Horford (or let's say Paul Millsap) as its 2nd best player a championship contender? I know that this question is is difficult to answer because so much depends on the rest of the squad, but I do think that just going by the main core of guys, I'd be very sceptical if a guy like Horford was my 2nd best guy. Solid all around screams 4th/5th guy on a great team to me, to be honest.

Maybe I'm underselling SGA a bit with comparison, I think he can be a bit better than what Horford was but in the same mould as a player. I think SGA can be the 2nd best player on a championship team but it entirely depends on the quality of the rest of the roster. If its a well balanced roster with talent at every position then yeah, if it's how we have been constructed previously with 2 superstars needing to carry everything then no.

[Old Man Game]

Watching Harden operate with near total impunity against Danny Green really makes me appreciate all the more Dort's defensive talents.

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[Sea2003]

Hopefully, we trade Schroder and CP3 this season. Seeing as how desperate Philly and Milluwuake are, I think Presti holds all the leverage. A package of Horford, Thybulle, and 2 unprotected first-round picks would be a dream.

[Sea2003]

SGA: Improved a lot in his 2nd year. I still compare him to a Horford version of a guard/wing. Solid all round player but no elite skill. I think in his prime he could be the 2nd fiddle on a championship team.

Probably an accurate comparison, but let's assume that's what he is, even going forward: Do you really think that makes him the 2nd best player on a championship team? Is a team with Al Horford (or let's say Paul Millsap) as its 2nd best player a championship contender? I know that this question is is difficult to answer because so much depends on the rest of the squad, but I do think that just going by the main core of guys, I'd be very sceptical if a guy like Horford was my 2nd best guy. Solid all around screams 4th/5th guy on a great team to me, to be honest.

I think it's easy to forget that Shai is only in his second year. He's went from averaging 11 pts to nearly 20 pts in just his second season playing with two other ball-dominant guards. We'll have to see how he plays in his 3rd year before we make any type of assumption. I'm interested to see how he plays knowing that he has full control of the ball.

[Sea2003]

As fun as this season was if someone offers some value back for CP3 we should definitely take it. If no other team gives up any assets for him then there is no harm keeping him around the mentor the younger guys further. If CP3 does end up leaving then there is obviously no point in keeping Gallo around. Assessing the current situation.

Young core:

SGA: Improved a lot in his 2nd year. I still compare him to a Horford version of a guard/wing. Solid all round player but no elite skill. I think in his prime he could be the 2nd fiddle on a championship team. Would like to see him improve his 3pt shooting and playmaking a little more this off-season.

Bazley: Really impressed me this season and I see him as the long term solution as a PF/C. He is only 20 years of age and all the advanced stats paint him as a plus defender already. Obviously still very raw but he is naturally very coordinated and skillful for someone his size. Shooting improved over the course of the season and finished the season averaging 35%. Playoff advanced stats, albeit small sample size were really impressive.

Dort: Already a great defender but offensively he stinks. I do have faith in him improving because he backs himself and isn't afraid to shoot (pay attention Ferguson). I don't think he will ever be a good offensive player but I think he can become a serviceable offensive player with great defence.


What we need to compete:

A Superstar player: Even though I like our young core, I don't see any of them being the first option on a championship team. Thankfully we are loaded with assets so fingers crossed we may be able to draft or trade for this player in the future. I see this player either being a Point Guard or Wing to fit in with SGA and Bazley.

Shooters: Please can we at least get one elite shooter in the mould of a Reddick, Thompson, Herro? SGA and Bazley may be competent shooters but they aren't going to make defenses panic from deep. You can't win in this day and age without high level shooting.

2021 Squad:

PG: Schroeder
SG: Dort
SF: SGA
PF: Bazley
C: Adams

This squad will be great defensively but will struggle offensively big time. Should be well poised for a lottery pick but will still be fun to see how SGA, Bazley and Dort continue to develop.

Ideally, the plan would be to draft a superstar rather than having to trade for one. If you look at the past 3 drafts there have been about 5 superstar level talents ( Tatum, Morant, Trae, Luka, Zion). Drafting a superstar would give us about 8-9 years of team control versus 3-5( Players like booker, KAT). History has shown that to win a championship, you need a top 5 level talent( Kawhi, Lebron, KD, Steph, Duncan). Let's hope we get lucky enough for Presti to draft one.

[Pillendreher]

We'll have to see how he plays in his 3rd year before we make any type of assumption. I'm interested to see how he plays knowing that he has full control of the ball.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but so far he has not shown any real ability to actually control the ball, has he?

[spearsy23]

I'm not as high on Shai as I was early in the year. May be d/t lack of opportunities, but he didn't show much ability to be a lead guard. He can get his, but not at an elite enough level to be a number one option, and he didn't control the game enough to be a primary ball handler. You obviously still need that elite number one option next to him, but it has to be a Lebron type playmaker from the wing position.

[spearsy23]

Adams needs to go. It's somewhat a over-reaction to watching him get played off the court by Houston, which happens to every traditional c, but it's more a reaction to his consistent ability to never give you anything more than average center play. You can get close enough to average center play off the scrap heap year in and year out. He's good at all the center things, but not good enough to give you a clear advantage in any single area. Get a stretch big or shot blocker who will not help you win as much, but will give you more variance at 1/3 the price.

[ThunderBolt]

If we rebuild and move cp3 and Gallo, I expect shai to struggle and have a bit of a regression year on the surface. Ultimately I think it should make him a better player in the long run. All of us tend to want progression to be fast and linear but unless you are Luka, it tends to be slower. Devin Booker has been talented for a long time but made his jump this year in fifth season. Lots of good players don’t develop as quickly as we saw with the Durant, Russ and Harden.

[spearsy23]

I still think shai can be really good, it's just very tough to picture building around a guard who isn't a legitimate number 1 option. You can get a top tier pg to pair with him, but then you're stuck in a lillard/McCollum situation, and I don't think that's a realistic pairing for championship aspirations. Alternatively you need him to show more ability to run a team, and hope that it's still possible to win with a big as your best player.

Does anyone believe the grindhouse Grizzlies or the current blazers were actually in the title hunt? Because, without a Lebron or Cupcake, I think that's your best case scenario

[spearsy23]

If we rebuild and move cp3 and Gallo, I expect shai to struggle and have a bit of a regression year on the surface. Ultimately I think it should make him a better player in the long run. All of us tend to want progression to be fast and linear but unless you are Luka, it tends to be slower. Devin Booker has been talented for a long time but made his jump this year in fifth season. Lots of good players don’t develop as quickly as we saw with the Durant, Russ and Harden.

Booker showed legitimate #1 scoring chops from day 1 though. There were questions about rather he could be the best player on a winning team, but he was always going to be a guy that could get you 35 in a game 7.

[ThunderBolt]

If we rebuild and move cp3 and Gallo, I expect shai to struggle and have a bit of a regression year on the surface. Ultimately I think it should make him a better player in the long run. All of us tend to want progression to be fast and linear but unless you are Luka, it tends to be slower. Devin Booker has been talented for a long time but made his jump this year in fifth season. Lots of good players don’t develop as quickly as we saw with the Durant, Russ and Harden.

Booker showed legitimate #1 scoring chops from day 1 though. There were questions about rather he could be the best player on a winning team, but he was always going to be a guy that could get you 35 in a game 7.

Shai is a really difficult player to comp. After an entire season of watching almost every game I really can’t think of who he reminds me of. I don’t think he’s the same level of scorer as booker. That comp was more along the lines of how long it could take him to reach his ceiling. In same ways you could argue that the situations he’s been in his first two years have slowed his development even though they may have been beneficial down the road.

Does anyone believe the grindhouse Grizzlies or the current blazers were actually in the title hunt? Because, without a Lebron or Cupcake, I think that's your best case scenario

If you had added a Pul George level player to that roster, then were they a contender? That’s kind of my hope based upon what I think we currently have and will do. Build a solid roster, don’t screw yourself with bad contracts and still have the assets to get the big fish when he’s available. The Lillard/ McCollum blazers were decent but they haven’t been able to add the missing piece. We had so many assets that I think we can do it.

[spearsy23]

If we rebuild and move cp3 and Gallo, I expect shai to struggle and have a bit of a regression year on the surface. Ultimately I think it should make him a better player in the long run. All of us tend to want progression to be fast and linear but unless you are Luka, it tends to be slower. Devin Booker has been talented for a long time but made his jump this year in fifth season. Lots of good players don’t develop as quickly as we saw with the Durant, Russ and Harden.

Booker showed legitimate #1 scoring chops from day 1 though. There were questions about rather he could be the best player on a winning team, but he was always going to be a guy that could get you 35 in a game 7.

Shai is a really difficult player to comp. After an entire season of watching almost every game I really can’t think of who he reminds me of. I don’t think he’s the same level of scorer as booker. That comp was more along the lines of how long it could take him to reach his ceiling. In same ways you could argue that the situations he’s been in his first two years have slowed his development even though they may have been beneficial down the road.

Does anyone believe the grindhouse Grizzlies or the current blazers were actually in the title hunt? Because, without a Lebron or Cupcake, I think that's your best case scenario

If you had added a Pul George level player to that roster, then were they a contender? That’s kind of my hope based upon what I think we currently have and will do. Build a solid roster, don’t screw yourself with bad contracts and still have the assets to get the big fish when he’s available. The Lillard/ McCollum blazers were decent but they haven’t been able to add the missing piece. We had so many assets that I think we can do it.

Adding Paul George to the Grizzlies would've made Conley their third best player and, since I'm still riding with that comp, I think that's where you need to be to win a title with shai. The problem is that that specific roster construction is TOUGH. You need to find a top 20 player at both the center and sf positions and have 3 guys that wouldn't duplicate each other's skillsets. Also, you're probably looking at 3 max contracts so you've got to round out that roster still.

[ThunderBolt]

Spoiler:

Booker showed legitimate #1 scoring chops from day 1 though. There were questions about rather he could be the best player on a winning team, but he was always going to be a guy that could get you 35 in a game 7.

Shai is a really difficult player to comp. After an entire season of watching almost every game I really can’t think of who he reminds me of. I don’t think he’s the same level of scorer as booker. That comp was more along the lines of how long it could take him to reach his ceiling. In same ways you could argue that the situations he’s been in his first two years have slowed his development even though they may have been beneficial down the road.

Does anyone believe the grindhouse Grizzlies or the current blazers were actually in the title hunt? Because, without a Lebron or Cupcake, I think that's your best case scenario

If you had added a Pul George level player to that roster, then were they a contender? That’s kind of my hope based upon what I think we currently have and will do. Build a solid roster, don’t screw yourself with bad contracts and still have the assets to get the big fish when he’s available. The Lillard/ McCollum blazers were decent but they haven’t been able to add the missing piece. We had so many assets that I think we can do it.

Adding Paul George to the Grizzlies would've made Conley their third best player and, since I'm still riding with that comp, I think that's where you need to be to win a title with shai. The problem is that that specific roster construction is TOUGH. You need to find a top 20 player at both the center and sf positions and have 3 guys that wouldn't duplicate each other's skillsets. Also, you're probably looking at 3 max contracts so you've got to round out that roster still.

It’s tough to build that way. It’s also tough to get superstar talent. Everything about winning is tough. I think shai can still get better and be a number two guy. Even if he only is a number three guy, I think that’s a pretty good piece to have to start a rebuild. The only thing I’m adamant about is I don’t want another tweener year.

[Sea2003]

We'll have to see how he plays in his 3rd year before we make any type of assumption. I'm interested to see how he plays knowing that he has full control of the ball.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but so far he has not shown any real ability to actually control the ball, has he?

He's never had the chance to be the lone ball handler on a team so i'm not sure how to evaluate him on that.

[Pillendreher]

We'll have to see how he plays in his 3rd year before we make any type of assumption. I'm interested to see how he plays knowing that he has full control of the ball.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but so far he has not shown any real ability to actually control the ball, has he?

He's never had the chance to be the lone ball handler on a team so i'm not sure how to evaluate him on that.

Fair enough. Putting him in lineups featuring three PGs is not the perfect situation to evaluate him as a primary ballhandler.

[Balkman32]

Who could give up some small value for CP3? Bucks or Philly? Feels like the only 2 options (and don't think Philly would do it because they need shooters)

Knicks are also out there. CP3's agent is now running the Knicks and he got CP3 the contract he is on so, one would think Rose would be willing to pay him. I think getting a '25 & '27 Firsts from the Knick's would be Presti's ideal trade plus the contracts that come back would be able to be bought out at a $1 million a piece for Portis, Gibson, Payton & Ellington.

[Balkman32]

Hopefully, we trade Schroder and CP3 this season. Seeing as how desperate Philly and Milluwuake are, I think Presti holds all the leverage. A package of Horford, Thybulle, and 2 unprotected first-round picks would be a dream.

I don't think the 6ers deal Thybulle but I can see a CP3 for Horford swap. I think its going to cost the 6ers to do a Horford for CP3. Horfords deal is for another 3 years at around $27 million plus he is already 34 years old, and the salary cap could be decreasing. Would the 6ers offer Horford, unprotected FRP's in '25 and '27 for CP3?

The Bucks can only deal one first rounder since they have 2 going out the door right now.

These teams might also have interest in a CP3 & Schroder package. I think these two have shown they work together really well and can bring a balance to a team for a full 48 minutes plus we have seen they are able to play together.

[Balkman32]

It sucks but its time to sell off the parts.

Gallo will most likely need help to get to the team he wants to sign with. The Thunder will help him get there and hopefully they can get a little asset for going through the trouble. A lot of team will be interested in a 32 year old PF that can stroke the 3.

CP3 seems like he has already bee traded. There might be a deal in place. He could do wonders in Phila, New York, Milwaukee, Indiana, Utah, Dallas & New Orleans.

Schroder had a career year. Any team that needs a starting point or a backup to a all star PG should have interest in getting Schroder in the building and try to get an extension with him.

Adams is such a Thunder guy. I try to figure out what he wants out of his next contract. If he is willing to take a team friendly deal he might be one of the guys we keep around. He is only 27 and his knowledge and the way he thinks the game is a great example of how to be a pro. If he is willing to make around $10-$15 a year I think you keep him around for the rebuild and he can move into that NIck Collison role as he gets towards the end of his next contract.

I wish all of these guys would come back so they can run it back. But, with the injury history of CP3 and Gallo and the consistence they all shown this year it would be selling high on CP3 and Schroder and the Thunder should capitalize on this and start the rebuild.

Cade Cunningham who is committed to OK State is projected to go #1 in the 2021 draft. If the Thunder don't make the playoffs next year they will get some ping pong ball to get a chance to keep Cunningham in Oklahoma.

There is Generational talent Emoni Bates who will most likely be in the 2023 draft. They need to get as many ping pong balls as they can for the '23 draft, because Bates can be a top 10 talent in this league for a long time.