OKC Thunder Trades and Transaction Thread

[cjmcallist]

I come in peace.

If you'll indulge me, I'd like to find out a few OKC fans' critical thinking on this trade.

Why OKC does it
My non-OKC-fan pereption is that this deal primarily boils down to giving up 1.5 seasons of Kenrich Williams in exchange for moving up in the 2022 draft, ostensibly probably by 3-ish slots.

Hello!

For my part, I would pass. If I read the trade correctly, OKC isn't guaranteed to move up in the draft? I'd want something more tangible, if only because Kenrich could get us something tangible in another deal somewhere else (even if it's a late first).

[_s_t_u_r_t_]

I come in peace.

If you'll indulge me, I'd like to find out a few OKC fans' critical thinking on this trade.

Why OKC does it
My non-OKC-fan pereption is that this deal primarily boils down to giving up 1.5 seasons of Kenrich Williams in exchange for moving up in the 2022 draft, ostensibly probably by 3-ish slots.

Hello!

For my part, I would pass. If I read the trade correctly, OKC isn't guaranteed to move up in the draft? I'd want something more tangible, if only because Kenrich could get us something tangible in another deal somewhere else (even if it's a late first).

Think that would be in the realm of plausible tweaking.

So, maybe instead of ATL's 15-30 being on the table, that gets extended to 12-30 or something like that. Not sure you'd have reason to know this, but the Hawks have been among the most covid and injury ravaged teams this season... and only tomorrow night will have available our full rotation for the first time. Have defeated MIL, MIA, MIN and CHO, and so we're getting back to being the team we all saw get within a misplaced referee's foot of the 2021 NBA Finals... a lot of reason to believe that pick will be safely above #15 regardless.

Of course, it could happen that LAC's ends up as the worst of the three, but that's a risk that had been envisioned as counterbalanced in taking Favors and his player option for 2022-23 off OKC's hands.

Another alternative would be to put the PHX pick that OKC owns on the table, and say that likely #30-ish pick gets flipped for ATL's lesser pick of their own and CHO's.

[cjmcallist]

Another alternative would be to put the PHX pick that OKC owns on the table, and say that likely #30-ish pick gets flipped for ATL's lesser pick of their own and CHO's.

I think I'd do that. IRL we'd have to figure out what happens in the event CHO's pick ends up protected (top 18). But, moving up from 30 to 15 or 20 for Kenrich would work for me.

While you're here, any chance we can swing a Huerter for Dort trade?

[cjmcallist]

Alright - I'm ready to trade for Collins. I know I'm probably on an island, but I think he's exactly what we need. Scoring forward who did all the winning things in the playoffs last year. His defense leaves a bit to be desired, but put him next to a Jabari Smith or Chet Holmgren, and you're in great shape. His contract certainty also really helps. In 2 years I think he'll be considered a value deal.

Probably we have to give up Dort to get him?

Next year roll out Giddey, Shai, Kenrich, Collins, Chet line up.

Who's with me!?

[Dadouv47]

Alright - I'm ready to trade for Collins. I know I'm probably on an island, but I think he's exactly what we need. Scoring forward who did all the winning things in the playoffs last year. His defense leaves a bit to be desired, but put him next to a Jabari Smith or Chet Holmgren, and you're in great shape. His contract certainty also really helps. In 2 years I think he'll be considered a value deal.

Probably we have to give up Dort to get him?

Next year roll out Giddey, Shai, Kenrich, Collins, Chet line up.

Who's with me!?

A PF shooting 38.7% from three is definitely what we need. I was on John Collins island last year but not so sure now because of locker room issues (but it's tough to know whether it's John Collins the issue or his relationship with other players) and also not willing to spend a lot of assets to get him since he got a huge contract already.

Would clearly make an offer for him but probably not enough for Atlanta to pull the trigger.

[cjmcallist]

A PF shooting 38.7% from three is definitely what we need. I was on John Collins island last year but not so sure now because of locker room issues (but it's tough to know whether it's John Collins the issue or his relationship with other players) and also not willing to spend a lot of assets to get him since he got a huge contract already.

Would clearly make an offer for him but probably not enough for Atlanta to pull the trigger.

Would you do something like Dort + 2023 DEN FRP?

That seems to fit the bill for ATL (starter + FRP + savings).

[Dadouv47]

A PF shooting 38.7% from three is definitely what we need. I was on John Collins island last year but not so sure now because of locker room issues (but it's tough to know whether it's John Collins the issue or his relationship with other players) and also not willing to spend a lot of assets to get him since he got a huge contract already.

Would clearly make an offer for him but probably not enough for Atlanta to pull the trigger.

Would you do something like Dort + 2023 DEN FRP?

That seems to fit the bill for ATL (starter + FRP + savings).

Yeah I would easily do that in a heartbeat (SGA gonna be angry though)

Doubt Atlanta would do this. Guess they want a better starter.

[_s_t_u_r_t_]

Friends, the "John Collins is frustrated" talk is, not only going on 3 weeks old, it was click-bait material from the start... the headlines drawing folks in, but down the column of text a few convenient paragraphs was the fuller context and "rest of the story," in my best Paul Harvey imitation.

In short, JC explicitly said he wasn't saying anything in order to prompt getting moved to another team, but rather, he was only attempting to prompt a more definitive role, even if that role was somehow a lesser role, as long as it would translate to Hawks wins.

So, you'll still see the hype--we sure do over on Hawksquawk.net. John Collins is a name that earns a lot of clicks for a lot of people whose incomes are somewhat click reliant. In the midst of this winning streak, and the first time this team has had all of its rotation available for a single game just last night, there would need to be a sudden devastating collapse to get our GM to make any major moves that could affect the good mojo... or, the only alternative to that... some jaw-dropping offer that was too ridiculous to pass up... and those are rare things in the NBA, of course.

[Dadouv47]

Read on Twitter

would be really bad not taking advantage of this but we can't commit to long term salaries and not gonna receive a lot of value for expiring players

[Devilanche]

If we aren’t taking long term salary seems like we can get at most cash or late seconds for getting team out of tax this season.

Not sure if we can pickup a big or two that haven’t shown much but still on his rookie contract .

[Dn4sty]

So how does Lu free agency work? Is he a restricted FA this offseason if they don’t pick up his option and if they do pick up his option, then he’s an unrestricted FA the following offseason?

[Mr Thunder Nick]

At this point I would not trade Dort, Williams or Muscala away. They are great players and caracter-guys with low salary.
OKC has no necessity for a trade at this moment.

[1bigfan13]

At this point I would not trade Dort, Williams or Muscala away. They are great players and caracter-guys with low salary.
OKC has no necessity for a trade at this moment.

I agree. I doubt OKC will have the worst record in the NBA but it feels pretty safe that they'll finish with one of the 5 worst records without having to sell off some of their better players.

At this point I'd rather see them start focusing on learning how to win. There's still some value in that, IMO. My fear is despite all the young talent OKC might acquire over the next couple of seasons, if the organization's primary focus is on trying to land high lottery picks, the young players will never learn how to win. And as a result of that, even when the Thunder organization is finally ready to start competing, they'll be stuck in a losing rut because the only things that the core players have ever known their entire careers is tanking and inconsistent lineups/playing time.

Similar to what played out in Minnesota with Wiggins, KAT, Lavine, Russell, etc. Wiggins gets away form Minnesota and goes to GS and he's been a much better all around player. Obviously things are easier when you play alongside an all time great like Steph, but having vets with playoff experience to lean on is a tremendous help as well.

That's something I'd like to see OKC do starting this offseason. Use that cap space to go after some Markieff Morris type players....guys who have played in some big moments in this league and who the younger stars can learn winning techniques from.

[coolness]

Pistons fan and someone whose mind is in the gutter of T&T Board ideas.

How much cap space will you have starting next season?

How much will Favors and SGA make?

[cjmcallist]

So how does Lu free agency work? Is he a restricted FA this offseason if they don’t pick up his option and if they do pick up his option, then he’s an unrestricted FA the following offseason?

I THINK the answer is here: http://www.cbafaq.com/salarycap.htm#Q42

Dort's 22-23 season is his fourth season. So, if OKC declines his team option, he qualifies for restricted free agency because he's been in the league 3 or fewer years (see the CBA FAQ link above).

If the team were to pick up the option (on the fourth year of his career) he would become an UFA following that season.

Because Dort signed a standard contract (i.e. "not rookie scale"), he is eligible for an extension. So, it's possible that an extension is agreed to and free agency doesn't come into play.

I'm like 85% sure this is all correct.

[cjmcallist]

At this point I would not trade Dort, Williams or Muscala away. They are great players and caracter-guys with low salary.
OKC has no necessity for a trade at this moment.

I agree. I doubt OKC will have the worst record in the NBA but it feels pretty safe that they'll finish with one of the 5 worst records without having to sell off some of their better players.

At this point I'd rather see them start focusing on learning how to win. There's still some value in that, IMO. My fear is despite all the young talent OKC might acquire over the next couple of seasons, if the organization's primary focus is on trying to land high lottery picks, the young players will never learn how to win. And as a result of that, even when the Thunder organization is finally ready to start competing, they'll be stuck in a losing rut because the only things that the core players have ever known their entire careers is tanking and inconsistent lineups/playing time.

Similar to what played out in Minnesota with Wiggins, KAT, Lavine, Russell, etc. Wiggins gets away form Minnesota and goes to GS and he's been a much better all around player. Obviously things are easier when you play alongside an all time great like Steph, but having vets with playoff experience to lean on is a tremendous help as well.

That's something I'd like to see OKC do starting this offseason. Use that cap space to go after some Markieff Morris type players....guys who have played in some big moments in this league and who the younger stars can learn winning techniques from.

I think the last two years have proven the Thunder have a strong enough culture to withstand the tanking. Players like playing here and they continue to play hard. When that stops, we definitely have a problem. Until then, I think the FO and coaching staff should be thought of differently than the incompetent MIN franchise.

Buying out Kemba means we're in the tank at least one more year after this. 22-23 might be the last year we tank - it all depends on the lottery.

Adding veterans puts us right on the Indiana Pacers, Charlotte Hornets, Utah Jazz, New York Knicks, Atlanta Hawks, etc. path. That would be my nightmare scenario. A lot of people might disagree, but I'd rather not.

[cjmcallist]

Pistons fan and someone whose mind is in the gutter of T&T Board ideas.

How much cap space will you have starting next season?

How much will Favors and SGA make?

Hi there!

OKC cap space all depends on what happens with Lu Dort and our first round picks.

If all the salaries stay the same, we'll only have approximate $14m or so in cap space. That's impossible because of our incoming FRP. I imagine Dort's salary will increase, and the incoming FRP will exceed our existing salary spots. So, we will have very little to no functional cap space.

Favors has a PO for 10.1 and Shai will be making 29.7.

[Devilanche]

So how does Lu free agency work? Is he a restricted FA this offseason if they don’t pick up his option and if they do pick up his option, then he’s an unrestricted FA the following offseason?

I THINK the answer is here: http://www.cbafaq.com/salarycap.htm#Q42

Dort's 22-23 season is his fourth season. So, if OKC declines his team option, he qualifies for restricted free agency because he's been in the league 3 or fewer years (see the CBA FAQ link above).

If the team were to pick up the option (on the fourth year of his career) he would become an UFA following that season.

Because Dort signed a standard contract (i.e. "not rookie scale"), he is eligible for an extension. So, it's possible that an extension is agreed to and free agency doesn't come into play.

I'm like 85% sure this is all correct.

Looks right but I’m not too sure what restriction come with the extension .

[cjmcallist]

So how does Lu free agency work? Is he a restricted FA this offseason if they don’t pick up his option and if they do pick up his option, then he’s an unrestricted FA the following offseason?

I THINK the answer is here: http://www.cbafaq.com/salarycap.htm#Q42

Dort's 22-23 season is his fourth season. So, if OKC declines his team option, he qualifies for restricted free agency because he's been in the league 3 or fewer years (see the CBA FAQ link above).

If the team were to pick up the option (on the fourth year of his career) he would become an UFA following that season.

Because Dort signed a standard contract (i.e. "not rookie scale"), he is eligible for an extension. So, it's possible that an extension is agreed to and free agency doesn't come into play.

I'm like 85% sure this is all correct.

Looks right but I’m not too sure what restriction come with the extension .

I was literally just looking at this. I believe that answer is here: http://www.cbafaq.com/salarycap.htm#Q58

Because Dort was not a first round pick, his contract is eligible for;

The salary in the first year of a veteran extension may be any amount up to 120% of the player's previous salary6, or 120% of the estimated average salary, whichever is greater, but no more than the player's maximum salary in that season (i.e., the maximum salary the player can receive if he were to sign a new contract that year as a free agent).

The max won't come into play for Dort, so he will be eligible for 120% of his current salary, or 120% of the average salary. His current salary is so low that I think the "estimated average salary" is in play.

I can't find anything that will tell me what the "estimated average salary" is for 22-23. So, this is all guess work from here. For 20-21 it was $10m. Adjusting for the cap increases since then, that probably puts Dort's max extension amount between $13-15m? Seems like a reasonable guess.

[Dn4sty]

I THINK the answer is here: http://www.cbafaq.com/salarycap.htm#Q42

Dort's 22-23 season is his fourth season. So, if OKC declines his team option, he qualifies for restricted free agency because he's been in the league 3 or fewer years (see the CBA FAQ link above).

If the team were to pick up the option (on the fourth year of his career) he would become an UFA following that season.

Because Dort signed a standard contract (i.e. "not rookie scale"), he is eligible for an extension. So, it's possible that an extension is agreed to and free agency doesn't come into play.

I'm like 85% sure this is all correct.

Looks right but I’m not too sure what restriction come with the extension .

I was literally just looking at this. I believe that answer is here: http://www.cbafaq.com/salarycap.htm#Q58

Because Dort was not a first round pick, his contract is eligible for;

The salary in the first year of a veteran extension may be any amount up to 120% of the player's previous salary6, or 120% of the estimated average salary, whichever is greater, but no more than the player's maximum salary in that season (i.e., the maximum salary the player can receive if he were to sign a new contract that year as a free agent).

The max won't come into play for Dort, so he will be eligible for 120% of his current salary, or 120% of the average salary. His current salary is so low that I think the "estimated average salary" is in play.

I can't find anything that will tell me what the "estimated average salary" is for 22-23. So, this is all guess work from here. For 20-21 it was $10m. Adjusting for the cap increases since then, that probably puts Dort's max extension amount between $13-15m? Seems like a reasonable guess.

Assuming this is correct, RealGM has the average salaries this season at $5,991,368.

https://www.basketball-reference.com/contracts/players.html