2017-2018 OKC Thunder Regular Season Thread part one: The Fellowship for A Ring

[Atomic Punk]

Did you guys notice that Donovan is riding the starters even harder now? Over the last 3 games, Russ-George-Anthony-Adams as a unit only missed a total of 18 minutes in the 1st and 3rd quarters. They played 54 out of a total 72 minutes.

I don't think that's gonna help with fatigue...

What’s the alternative? You are clearly in the “this bench sucks” camp so what should Donavan do? Oh, I forgot, you just like to point out the obvious and then offer no real solution other than Patterson needs to play more.

[slick_watts]

Did you guys notice that Donovan is riding the starters even harder now? Over the last 3 games, Russ-George-Anthony-Adams as a unit only missed a total of 18 minutes in the 1st and 3rd quarters. They played 54 out of a total 72 minutes.

I don't think that's gonna help with fatigue...

What’s the alternative? You are clearly in the “this bench sucks” camp so what should Donavan do?

play lineups that work.

1 ) get terrance ferguson out of the starting unit.

2 ) stop playing jerami grant with the starters.

both of these lineups have been bottom of the barrel as far as starter configurations go. both abrines and huestis have seen far more success in them.

play patrick patterson and (maybe) dakari johnson

1 ) in the four games since andre got hurt, patterson's minutes are down to 13.1 per game. playing him more would reduce the minutes carmelo anthony saw the court.

2 ) playing dakari johnson could help steven adams get a longer rest, especially against bench units.

there's a lot more he could do. the mad genius blames these losses on fatigue. but, he's overextending the minutes of the starters (especially adams) who have to play harder than usual due to sharing the court with terrance ferguson for 10 minutes a game.

[Atomic Punk]

Did you guys notice that Donovan is riding the starters even harder now? Over the last 3 games, Russ-George-Anthony-Adams as a unit only missed a total of 18 minutes in the 1st and 3rd quarters. They played 54 out of a total 72 minutes.

I don't think that's gonna help with fatigue...

What’s the alternative? You are clearly in the “this bench sucks” camp so what should Donavan do?

play lineups that work.

1 ) get terrance ferguson out of the starting unit.

2 ) stop playing jerami grant with the starters.

both of these lineups have been bottom of the barrel as far as starter configurations go. both abrines and huestis have seen far more success in them.

play patrick patterson and (maybe) dakari johnson

1 ) in the four games since andre got hurt, patterson's minutes are down to 13.1 per game. playing him more would reduce the minutes carmelo anthony saw the court.

2 ) playing dakari johnson could help steven adams get a longer rest, especially against bench units.

there's a lot more he could do. the mad genius blames these losses on fatigue. but, he's overextending the minutes of the starters (especially adams) who have to play harder than usual due to sharing the court with terrance ferguson for 10 minutes a game.

Do you start Abrines or Huestis? Or do you rotate depending on matchups? They both seem to perform better with the starters. My only concern with Huestis is that he can’t be trusted to make decisions with the ball in his hands at all.

[slick_watts]

Do you start Abrines or Huestis? Or do you rotate depending on matchups? They both seem to perform better with the starters. My only concern with Huestis is that he can’t be trusted to make decisions with the ball in his hands at all.

i don't know. i think either would be better than terrance ferguson. i would probably start alex abrines with a quick hook ready to put josh huestis in.

i mean-- this change wouldn't make us a 'good' team. we're going to be horrific on defense unless we either make a splash at the deadline or major rotation changes combined with style-of-play epiphanies. but both of those options are probably 7-8 pp100 better than the ferguson starters have been. the mad genius claiming that playing with the starters would make ferguson better somehow (by osmosis...?) makes no sense to me, neither does his claim that he worries more about who finishes games (since the grant-starters he has finished games with have been as bad as the ferguson starters this season).

at the end of the day, i think that the team is leaving a point or two of MOV on the court just like it was before andre roberson's injury. it's recoverable with better rotations. but that point or two isn't going to make a serious difference or propel the team back to where it was pre-injury.

insofar as Pillhendrer's original point- blaming these losses on fatigue is peculiar when the coach is playing the fatigued players more than usual.

[Atomic Punk]

Do you start Abrines or Huestis? Or do you rotate depending on matchups? They both seem to perform better with the starters. My only concern with Huestis is that he can’t be trusted to make decisions with the ball in his hands at all.

i don't know. i think either would be better than terrance ferguson. i would probably start alex abrines with a quick hook ready to put josh huestis in.

i mean-- this change wouldn't make us a 'good' team. we're going to be horrific on defense unless we either make a splash at the deadline or major rotation changes combined with style-of-play epiphanies. but both of those options are probably 7-8 pp100 better than the ferguson starters have been. the mad genius claiming that playing with the starters would make ferguson better somehow (by osmosis...?) makes no sense to me, neither does his claim that he worries more about who finishes games (since the grant-starters he has finished games with have been as bad as the ferguson starters this season).

at the end of the day, i think that the team is leaving a point or two of MOV on the court just like it was before andre roberson's injury. it's recoverable with better rotations. but that point or two isn't going to make a serious difference or propel the team back to where it was pre-injury.

insofar as Pillhendrer's original point- blaming these losses on fatigue is peculiar when the coach is playing the fatigued players more than usual.

I won’t necessarily argue with your last point other than to say it’s not unusual for coaches to rely on their “security blankets” in times like these.

That said, I thought this team needed to make a move for an offensive wing before Dre went down. Now I think they need to look at two players that can give a respectable amount on both ends rather than one defensive “specialist” and one offensive “specialists”. I think there are options out there but I am beginning to wonder if the team won’t try to include Dre in a trade to make salaries work. I know that would be difficult in the extreme but not out of the question. Given how much he relies on athletic ability I doubt he ever gets back to where he was. The only other way he can remain a valuable contributor would be to add a reliable 3 point shot, in my opinion.

[ThunderBolt]

Why would any team take Dre in a trade? It’s not like we can pair him with any kind of great asset.

[Atomic Punk]

Why would any team take Dre in a trade? It’s not like we can pair him with any kind of great asset.

Like I said, not likely but not unheard of. Ferguson and a first would have to be added but that would open up opportunities for other trade partners (ATL and Bazemore).

[slick_watts]

I won’t necessarily argue with your last point other than to say it’s not unusual for coaches to rely on their “security blankets” in times like these.

ok.

i'm dubious on the possibility of andre roberson being included in a trade. he sustained a career threatening injury and just had surgery. there's no prognosis yet.

[Pillendreher]

Did you guys notice that Donovan is riding the starters even harder now? Over the last 3 games, Russ-George-Anthony-Adams as a unit only missed a total of 18 minutes in the 1st and 3rd quarters. They played 54 out of a total 72 minutes.

I don't think that's gonna help with fatigue...

What’s the alternative? You are clearly in the “this bench sucks” camp so what should Donavan do? Oh, I forgot, you just like to point out the obvious and then offer no real solution other than Patterson needs to play more.

You really do have trouble grasping what I'm saying, don't you? So please spare me this little act of yours. It's tiresome.

[Atomic Punk]

I won’t necessarily argue with your last point other than to say it’s not unusual for coaches to rely on their “security blankets” in times like these.

ok.

i'm dubious on the possibility of andre roberson being included in a trade. he sustained a career threatening injury and just had surgery. there's no prognosis yet.

Just trying to think outside of the box a little. I know it’s early, but I am very concerned that Dre will not be able to return to his previous ability and effectiveness. If he were traded, would the other team be able to file a disabled player claim next season if he were to miss a significant portion of the season?

[ThunderBolt]

Why would any team take Dre in a trade? It’s not like we can pair him with any kind of great asset.

Like I said, not likely but not unheard of. Ferguson and a first would have to be added but that would open up opportunities for other trade partners (ATL and Bazemore).

I would guess we might have to add in a second frp to get a team to take Dre. That becomes a steep price to pay for a player like bazemore. I hope I’m wrong.

[Atomic Punk]

Did you guys notice that Donovan is riding the starters even harder now? Over the last 3 games, Russ-George-Anthony-Adams as a unit only missed a total of 18 minutes in the 1st and 3rd quarters. They played 54 out of a total 72 minutes.

I don't think that's gonna help with fatigue...

What’s the alternative? You are clearly in the “this bench sucks” camp so what should Donavan do? Oh, I forgot, you just like to point out the obvious and then offer no real solution other than Patterson needs to play more.

You really do have trouble grasping what I'm saying, don't you? So please spare me this little act of yours. It's tiresome.

It’s not an act. And there is nothing wrong with my ability to comprehend or “grasp” what you are saying. What you say isn’t complex or particularly insightful sometimes. Sometimes it is and I appreciate those comments. I think you are honestly trying to be pessimistic and negative just for the sake of it. At times I think you just want to be the dominant voice on this board and you try to accomplish that by saying a lot of stuff. Sometimes you say things that are the equivalent of saying that water is wet and that it bothers you. Communication is a two way street.

[Atomic Punk]

Why would any team take Dre in a trade? It’s not like we can pair him with any kind of great asset.

Like I said, not likely but not unheard of. Ferguson and a first would have to be added but that would open up opportunities for other trade partners (ATL and Bazemore).

I would guess we might have to add in a second frp to get a team to take Dre. That becomes a steep price to pay for a player like bazemore. I hope I’m wrong.

Yeah, this is obviously a less than ideal situation for the team to be in. They needed to make a move before this happened and now....My gut tells me they will try to make a big splash next week and continue the “all in” strategy this year. Otherwise they are back to kind of playing somewhere in the middle which really isn’t a good spot to be in.

[Pillendreher]

What’s the alternative? You are clearly in the “this bench sucks” camp so what should Donavan do? Oh, I forgot, you just like to point out the obvious and then offer no real solution other than Patterson needs to play more.

You really do have trouble grasping what I'm saying, don't you? So please spare me this little act of yours. It's tiresome.

It’s not an act. And there is nothing wrong with my ability to comprehend or “grasp” what you are saying. What you say isn’t complex or particularly insightful sometimes. Sometimes it is and I appreciate those comments. I think you are honestly trying to be pessimistic and negative just for the sake of it. At times I think you just want to be the dominant voice on this board and you try to accomplish that by saying a lot of stuff. Sometimes you say things that are the equivalent of saying that water is wet and that it bothers you. Communication is a two way street.

Yes, I want to be a 'dominant voice'. Get over yourself. lol.

[Atomic Punk]

You really do have trouble grasping what I'm saying, don't you? So please spare me this little act of yours. It's tiresome.

It’s not an act. And there is nothing wrong with my ability to comprehend or “grasp” what you are saying. What you say isn’t complex or particularly insightful sometimes. Sometimes it is and I appreciate those comments. I think you are honestly trying to be pessimistic and negative just for the sake of it. At times I think you just want to be the dominant voice on this board and you try to accomplish that by saying a lot of stuff. Sometimes you say things that are the equivalent of saying that water is wet and that it bothers you. Communication is a two way street.

Yes, I want to be a 'dominant voice'. Get over yourself. lol.

Perfect response. One that illustrates your inability to acknowledge your own arrogance and narrow mindedness.

[Pillendreher]

It’s not an act. And there is nothing wrong with my ability to comprehend or “grasp” what you are saying. What you say isn’t complex or particularly insightful sometimes. Sometimes it is and I appreciate those comments. I think you are honestly trying to be pessimistic and negative just for the sake of it. At times I think you just want to be the dominant voice on this board and you try to accomplish that by saying a lot of stuff. Sometimes you say things that are the equivalent of saying that water is wet and that it bothers you. Communication is a two way street.

Yes, I want to be a 'dominant voice'. Get over yourself. lol.

Perfect response. One that illustrates your inability to acknowledge your own arrogance and narrow mindedness.

Oh my I really did a number on you huh

[Atomic Punk]

Yes, I want to be a 'dominant voice'. Get over yourself. lol.

Perfect response. One that illustrates your inability to acknowledge your own arrogance and narrow mindedness.

Oh my I really did a number on you huh

Not at all. I would imagine it’s the other way around. Unless you have a page worth of stats to reference, you really don’t have much of anything to say. Other than

This is why I don’t argue with children like yourself, it really is pointless. Are you familiar with the Dunning-Kruger effect?

[Pillendreher]

Perfect response. One that illustrates your inability to acknowledge your own arrogance and narrow mindedness.

Oh my I really did a number on you huh

Not at all. I would imagine it’s the other way around. Unless you have a page worth of stats to reference, you really don’t have much of anything to say. Other than

This is why I don’t argue with children like yourself, it really is pointless. Are you familiar with the Dunning-Kruger effect?

Stop putting words in my mouth. If you don't understand what I'm saying, don't try to 'get your shot in' by intentionally misrepresenting what I've said. You're just embarassing yourself at this point.

I'm not engaging this nonsense anymore. Go find yourself another obsession.

[Atomic Punk]

Oh my I really did a number on you huh

Not at all. I would imagine it’s the other way around. Unless you have a page worth of stats to reference, you really don’t have much of anything to say. Other than

This is why I don’t argue with children like yourself, it really is pointless. Are you familiar with the Dunning-Kruger effect?

Stop putting words in my mouth. If you don't understand what I'm saying, don't try to 'get your shot in' by intentionally misrepresenting what I've said. You're just embarassing yourself at this point.

I'm not engaging this nonsense anymore. Go find yourself another obsession.

I am not putting words in your mouth. I do understand what you are saying, that’s the whole point. Not obsessed with you at all, it’s just interesting to see how people like you react when challenged. Especially once you got your shots in and I didn’t back down. You didn’t disappoint.

[Sun_Tzu]

Perfect response. One that illustrates your inability to acknowledge your own arrogance and narrow mindedness.

Oh my I really did a number on you huh

Not at all. I would imagine it’s the other way around. Unless you have a page worth of stats to reference, you really don’t have much of anything to say. Other than

This is why I don’t argue with children like yourself, it really is pointless. Are you familiar with the Dunning-Kruger effect?

Oh snap. It's a cognitive bias throw down.
The Dunning-Krueger effect is my 3rd favorite cognitive bias right behind confirmation bias and bias blind spot. I tend to accuse others of those 3 with some frequency. Continued influence effect and the semmelweis reflex also seem pretty cool, but they weren't included in the first book I read, so I tend to reject their validity.