2018-2019 OKC Thunder Regular Season Pt 1: A Renewed Hope

[hardenASG13]

This has been rehashed so many times. Your dumb takes aren't somehow validated by a different team playing well without Roberson.

Well this is the first season he hasn't played. I've always been told he was the teams entire defense, and irreplaceable. They added Schroeder, nerlens Noel, and diallo, and finally gave grant more minutes. He developed rapidly. Roberson was easily replaced. This should have been done a long, long time ago.

[hardenASG13]

Spoiler:

you must be a glutton for punishment. the team isn't missing andre roberson? lol. ok. we'll take another look at this down the line, because tbh you and many others said the same thing when waiters started, when brewer started, and basically any time 'dre gets hurt and some flash in the pan streak occurs. you can't like.. pound your chest on this one when you were wrong every other time.

i can't speak for anyone else, but for me it takes a long time and a lot of evidence to support an extraordinary subversion such as dennis schroder being a good player, or the thunder are an elite defense without andre roberson. it should for anyone imo who doesn't want to be reactionary, but i think you're too emotional.

Ok bros (I say bros to include your whole Roberson posse.....pillendreher (the guy who like 15-20 games into the season still was trying to use stats to say patterson was better than grant, saying grant was the worst fit possible in today's NBA at pf (he's the perfect role player), "thunderbolt", bondom, spearsy, etc.), let's "take another look".

It's nearly halfway through the season. Roberson hasn't played a minute. The team is a game out of first in the west. Best defensive rating in the league. Where are they missing Roberson exactly? You guys had your moment when Corey brewer, huestis, and abrines couldn't cut it (a really small, thrown together sample, btw). But as I told you, for years, all the stats you lived by with Roberson were a joke.

The team played a guy who couldn't shoot at all for 30mpg at st, in a league where almost all the good teams (gsw, houston, lebrons cavs) thrive because they are loaded with shooting, not individual defenders. That's because, as I've told you, repeatedly, one individual defender, a perimeter defender, doesn't have nearly as much value on a team as you all constantly argued he did. That is why no other team uses them like okc used Roberson. Elite offense beats elite defense one on one, and has throughout the history of the game (that's why stars produce regardless of who guards them)

Defense is a team thing. Grant getting more minutes, combined with Ferguson being able to stay in front of guys have made Robersons absence completely unnoticeable, except on offense where they aren't playing 4 on 5 anymore and have room to operate. Why would this team, or any, need Roberson? Where has he been missed?

He has been easily replaced, and the team is really good, despite Westbrooks struggles ( funny how you all advocate for big samples, then kill Russ for struggling for 30 games, where he missed all of training camp (he's gonna get it going, maybe not his old self, but better than this, guys). The defense hasn't fallen apart, like you all always said it would (again, top rated defense in the league).

Deny it if you want, but one of the main 'cat's' kd was referring to not being able to win with was Roberson. Playing a dude who can't shoot or dribble on the perimeter for 30 mpg makes 0 sense. As this season is proving, it is completely unnecessary to do so as defense is a team thing. That's why nobody else does it. It's a major part of why KD left imo. The okc media did a great job selling his value (as they did with Perkins before him). You all bought it. This season without him is simply speaking for itself. Oh and before you speak to them having had such an easy schedule, I'm pretty sure Roberson was playing against the same exact teams all these years too.....go thunder!

Multiple people have given credit to grant and validated your opinion on him. There really isn't any need to bring it up yet again.

Grant is mentioned once, briefly, in that whole post, and that was to illustrate how easy it was to replace Roberson. There really isn't any need for your comment at all.

[hardenASG13]

Roberson has a huge impact against elite teams. If you play the Rockets or the Warriors in the playoffs, you need to have him defending their best offensive players. PG13 won't be able to defend 40+ minutes against Harden while being effective on offense.

Why not? He does it every night, and there is more rest in the playoffs. I'm also pretty sure guys like harden and Durant will get theirs in a playoff game regardless of who guards them, because they always do. The team simply has to defend as unit, just like every other team in the league

[ThunderBolt]

he's the perfect role player

He's what?! I stand by my Grant takes. He's played better than expected, but the main issues are still there. His 3pt shooting has been hot garbage lately. We'll see if he is regressing to his career average or to a respectable number. Teams still prefer to pack the paint over sticking with Grant spotting up. He still can't set a proper screen.

He's been doing a lot with what he's been given and I'm glad for that. But I'm not going to fall over backwards because of it. I hope he keeps it up, but I'm also not opposed to finding somebody who's a better fit. Grant has had to work around the edges a lot because the fit isn't what it should be.

It's nearly halfway through the season. Roberson hasn't played a minute. The team is a game out of first in the west. Best defensive rating in the league. Where are they missing Roberson exactly?

Right here, you dolt:



You might not think this matters, but it sure as hell does.

You know what's the cause for the better DRtG as a team? This:

Last season:



This season:



a) We haven't played as many lineups that have totally faltered defensively like they did last year after Roberson's injury. But hey, now suddenly Corey Brewer isn't our savior. He sure was last season according to you though. Well, everybody is unless he isn't and then it's onto the next one. As long as it's not Roberson.

b) The team's defense stays elite with the bench on the floor.

except on offense where they aren't playing 4 on 5 anymore and have room to operate.

Are you trying to tell me that the guy who

-is scoring less than Roberson on more shots
-is shooting 30.1 % from 3
-is not taking any shots but 3s and direct attempts at the rim and is still horribly ineffcient because of it
-has the fifth lowest usg% in the league among those with at least 400 mp

Is somehow this guy who has "freed up" our offense? I'm not going after Ferguson here because he has played really well compared to what he showed last season, but I can't let this nonsense stand. It's always the same...I don't even know what to call it.

grant is a great fit at power forward, any team would be glad to have him in their rotation. Fatterson tho......that 38% isn't cutting it.

You can't gloat how much better he was than brewer (out of the league), but ignore they still have the best defense in the league without him. Youre simply ignoring the fact that you don't like.

The offense is freed up because all 5 guys are now guarded by the defense, and demand a closeout, a concept that if you don't get you probably never will.

Oh so adams and George with Roberson had a better rating than with Ferguson huh. Wow do I feel like a dolt! They are still very good with Ferguson. It hasn't (negatively) effected wins and losses. Ferguson also isn't very good, and wouldn't be getting much if any minutes on any other playoff team.

And to your adams point.....yes Noel is an adequate backup center. He was available for nothing. Has nothing to do with Roberson.

We were 7th in offensive rating last year, now we are 20th. Gottta love the eyeball test of the free flowing offense.

[ThunderBolt]

Spoiler:

Ok bros (I say bros to include your whole Roberson posse.....pillendreher (the guy who like 15-20 games into the season still was trying to use stats to say patterson was better than grant, saying grant was the worst fit possible in today's NBA at pf (he's the perfect role player), "thunderbolt", bondom, spearsy, etc.), let's "take another look".

It's nearly halfway through the season. Roberson hasn't played a minute. The team is a game out of first in the west. Best defensive rating in the league. Where are they missing Roberson exactly? You guys had your moment when Corey brewer, huestis, and abrines couldn't cut it (a really small, thrown together sample, btw). But as I told you, for years, all the stats you lived by with Roberson were a joke.

The team played a guy who couldn't shoot at all for 30mpg at st, in a league where almost all the good teams (gsw, houston, lebrons cavs) thrive because they are loaded with shooting, not individual defenders. That's because, as I've told you, repeatedly, one individual defender, a perimeter defender, doesn't have nearly as much value on a team as you all constantly argued he did. That is why no other team uses them like okc used Roberson. Elite offense beats elite defense one on one, and has throughout the history of the game (that's why stars produce regardless of who guards them)

Defense is a team thing. Grant getting more minutes, combined with Ferguson being able to stay in front of guys have made Robersons absence completely unnoticeable, except on offense where they aren't playing 4 on 5 anymore and have room to operate. Why would this team, or any, need Roberson? Where has he been missed?

He has been easily replaced, and the team is really good, despite Westbrooks struggles ( funny how you all advocate for big samples, then kill Russ for struggling for 30 games, where he missed all of training camp (he's gonna get it going, maybe not his old self, but better than this, guys). The defense hasn't fallen apart, like you all always said it would (again, top rated defense in the league).

Deny it if you want, but one of the main 'cat's' kd was referring to not being able to win with was Roberson. Playing a dude who can't shoot or dribble on the perimeter for 30 mpg makes 0 sense. As this season is proving, it is completely unnecessary to do so as defense is a team thing. That's why nobody else does it. It's a major part of why KD left imo. The okc media did a great job selling his value (as they did with Perkins before him). You all bought it. This season without him is simply speaking for itself. Oh and before you speak to them having had such an easy schedule, I'm pretty sure Roberson was playing against the same exact teams all these years too.....go thunder!

Multiple people have given credit to grant and validated your opinion on him. There really isn't any need to bring it up yet again.

Grant is mentioned once, briefly, in that whole post, and that was to illustrate how easy it was to replace Roberson. There really isn't any need for your comment at all.

Ironically i think most of us here feel the same about your posts. It was a troll comment regardless of how "briefly" you mentioned it.

[Pillendreher]

It's nearly halfway through the season. Roberson hasn't played a minute. The team is a game out of first in the west. Best defensive rating in the league. Where are they missing Roberson exactly? You guys had your moment when Corey brewer, huestis, and abrines couldn't cut it (a really small, thrown together sample, btw). But as I told you, for years, all the stats you lived by with Roberson were a joke.

OKC has played the easiest schedule in the NBA this season. ESPN's statistical ranking, RPI, has OKC 11th in the West. OKC has a very hard schedule the rest of the season. They are about to really miss Roberson. OKC is 9-1 against the teams tanking for Zion, or at least bad enough I'm giving them credit for tanking and not call them inept franchises, and 14-13 against teams trying to make the playoffs. They only have two more games against teams chasing Zion. OKC is very likely to have a sub .500 record the rest of the season. If they just play .500 ball the rest of the way I'll consider it a very good outcome.

Oh, enough already with the doom and gloom because of the damn schedule. Basketball-reference already accounts for the schedule: We're 3rd in SRS at +5.3 (55 wins on a whole season) and 3rd in NetRtG/A (also a 55 win season).

[hardenASG13]

He's what?! I stand by my Grant takes. He's played better than expected, but the main issues are still there. His 3pt shooting has been hot garbage lately. We'll see if he is regressing to his career average or to a respectable number. Teams still prefer to pack the paint over sticking with Grant spotting up. He still can't set a proper screen.

He's been doing a lot with what he's been given and I'm glad for that. But I'm not going to fall over backwards because of it. I hope he keeps it up, but I'm also not opposed to finding somebody who's a better fit. Grant has had to work around the edges a lot because the fit isn't what it should be.



Right here, you dolt:



You might not think this matters, but it sure as hell does.

You know what's the cause for the better DRtG as a team? This:

Last season:



This season:



a) We haven't played as many lineups that have totally faltered defensively like they did last year after Roberson's injury. But hey, now suddenly Corey Brewer isn't our savior. He sure was last season according to you though. Well, everybody is unless he isn't and then it's onto the next one. As long as it's not Roberson.

b) The team's defense stays elite with the bench on the floor.



Are you trying to tell me that the guy who

-is scoring less than Roberson on more shots
-is shooting 30.1 % from 3
-is not taking any shots but 3s and direct attempts at the rim and is still horribly ineffcient because of it
-has the fifth lowest usg% in the league among those with at least 400 mp

Is somehow this guy who has "freed up" our offense? I'm not going after Ferguson here because he has played really well compared to what he showed last season, but I can't let this nonsense stand. It's always the same...I don't even know what to call it.

grant is a great fit at power forward, any team would be glad to have him in their rotation. Fatterson tho......that 38% isn't cutting it.

You can't gloat how much better he was than brewer (out of the league), but ignore they still have the best defense in the league without him. Youre simply ignoring the fact that you don't like.

The offense is freed up because all 5 guys are now guarded by the defense, and demand a closeout, a concept that if you don't get you probably never will.

Oh so adams and George with Roberson had a better rating than with Ferguson huh. Wow do I feel like a dolt! They are still very good with Ferguson. It hasn't (negatively) effected wins and losses. Ferguson also isn't very good, and wouldn't be getting much if any minutes on any other playoff team.

And to your adams point.....yes Noel is an adequate backup center. He was available for nothing. Has nothing to do with Roberson.

We were 7th in offensive rating last year, now we are 20th. Gottta love the eyeball test of the free flowing offense.

I wonder if that has anything to do with how Westbrook has been playing offensively. Gotta love post stats without thinking about them at all. If Westbrook were playing like he did last year, or his whole career, do you think they'd be 20th? It's pretty clear, tbolt.

[ThunderBolt]

grant is a great fit at power forward, any team would be glad to have him in their rotation. Fatterson tho......that 38% isn't cutting it.

You can't gloat how much better he was than brewer (out of the league), but ignore they still have the best defense in the league without him. Youre simply ignoring the fact that you don't like.

The offense is freed up because all 5 guys are now guarded by the defense, and demand a closeout, a concept that if you don't get you probably never will.

Oh so adams and George with Roberson had a better rating than with Ferguson huh. Wow do I feel like a dolt! They are still very good with Ferguson. It hasn't (negatively) effected wins and losses. Ferguson also isn't very good, and wouldn't be getting much if any minutes on any other playoff team.

And to your adams point.....yes Noel is an adequate backup center. He was available for nothing. Has nothing to do with Roberson.

We were 7th in offensive rating last year, now we are 20th. Gottta love the eyeball test of the free flowing offense.

I wonder if that has anything to do with how Westbrook has been playing offensively. Gotta love post stats without thinking about them at all. If Westbrook were playing like he did last year, or his whole career, do you think they'd be 20th? It's pretty clear, tbolt.

Wait, so is the offense free flowing or not? Now you say its not because of Russ' Are you even trying today?

[hardenASG13]

Spoiler:

Multiple people have given credit to grant and validated your opinion on him. There really isn't any need to bring it up yet again.

Grant is mentioned once, briefly, in that whole post, and that was to illustrate how easy it was to replace Roberson. There really isn't any need for your comment at all.

Ironically i think most of us here feel the same about your posts. It was a troll comment regardless of how "briefly" you mentioned it.

It's not a troll comment, TB. Pillendreher is incredibly arrogant, routinely calls me things like 'dolt', yet it took him a year and a half to realize patterson stunk, and that grant was good. You guys are so smug when you team up on people, now there are people who don't take your BS and give it back. You guys all flip, bondom is saying he's leaving the board for the 1000th time. Stop talking like your such experts, otherwise get trolled when you make dumb takes like patterson is better than grant. And btw, pillendreher is still standing by the argument that grant isn't legit.

[Pillendreher]

You can't gloat how much better he was than brewer (out of the league), but ignore they still have the best defense in the league without him. Youre simply ignoring the fact that you don't like.

I'm not ignoring anything. I've laid them out before you, but you can't acknowledge them because that'd go directly against your whole agenda.

The offense is freed up because all 5 guys are now guarded by the defense, and demand a closeout, a concept that if you don't get you probably never will.

Where is this need for a "closeout" coming from when the Roberson replacement is not even replacement level good from 3? Have you paid attention to our games lately? How teams prefer to stick to Adams and prevent Westbrook from getting to the rim over our "shooters"?

Oh so adams and George with Roberson had a better rating than with Ferguson huh. Wow do I feel like a dolt!

Wait, let me get this straight: Did you just switch your argument from "WE'RE BETTER THAN EVER I TOLD YOU IDOTS" to "Well, we're not better, but I don't care"?

They are still very good with Ferguson. It hasn't (negatively) effected wins and losses.

How can you say that? You don't know that. It stands to reason that the defense would have been at an historically good level with Roberson playing since they replaced Anthony with Grant defensively. And that would have affected wins and losses for sure, simply because the team would have been better overall.

Ferguson also isn't very good, and wouldn't be getting much if any minutes on any other playoff team.

You have to pick a side. It's either "Roberson is useless" or not. You can't point him in a bad light like you've been doing and then hide behind "player xy is not very good" if the whole argument comes crashing down. The guy can't be utterly useless and non-replaceable by anybody at the same time.

And to your adams point.....yes Noel is an adequate backup center. He was available for nothing. Has nothing to do with Roberson.

Oh no, Mister. You're not getting out of that one. You can't go around citing

Best defensive rating in the league.

as a point against Roberson (ie that we don't need him) and then retreat to this silly excuse. The bench is a big part of our overall defensive performance and it's not something Roberson has or would have had anything to do with.

[ThunderBolt]

Grant is mentioned once, briefly, in that whole post, and that was to illustrate how easy it was to replace Roberson. There really isn't any need for your comment at all.

Ironically i think most of us here feel the same about your posts. It was a troll comment regardless of how "briefly" you mentioned it.

It's not a troll comment, TB. Pillendreher is incredibly arrogant, routinely calls me things like 'dolt', yet it took him a year and a half to realize patterson stunk, and that grant was good. You guys are so smug when you team up on people, now there are people who don't take your BS and give it back. You guys all flip, bondom is saying he's leaving the board for the 1000th time. Stop talking like your such experts, otherwise get trolled when you make dumb takes like patterson is better than grant. And btw, pillendreher is still standing by the argument that grant isn't legit.

If it makes you feel better ive gone out of my way to not call you names.

[hardenASG13]

We were 7th in offensive rating last year, now we are 20th. Gottta love the eyeball test of the free flowing offense.

I wonder if that has anything to do with how Westbrook has been playing offensively. Gotta love post stats without thinking about them at all. If Westbrook were playing like he did last year, or his whole career, do you think they'd be 20th? It's pretty clear, tbolt.

Wait, so is the offense free flowing or not? Now you say its not because of Russ' Are you even trying today?

Try to stick with me here. The offense looks much better. Westbrook isn't playing half as good as last year. Imagine if he was! The fact they have dipped in offensive rating is a direct result of Westbrooks play. Interpret the stats you post, and think critically about it . They can look better but not be rated as high, when their star is not performing close to his normal levels. Their record indicates this, as it's the first time I can remember them consistently winning with Russ not playing well offensively.

[getrichordie]

Whats going on?!

Russ plays like an ass, We write down our frustrations now Dom doesnt want to hear it which means we are all the cause of this thread to go to ****?

Im seen this forum worse than it is atm and i havent been on here that long.

I’m with Ralph on this one. This has been the main issue for me. I don’t care if anyone has opposing tales or views. If I disagree or they disagree, that’s where a discussion/debate can be had.

The issue starts when some (Bondom) think their take/opinion is better than others and respond to other’s comments in a very condescending manner. It’s narcissism at it’s very core.

Bondom thinks he’s better than us and that his opinion is more valuable and he operates as such. This becomes obvious when you read his posts. And it’s facilitated to some degree by other older members on this board. Bondom has his little “clique” and anyone who’s not in it or disagrees with that clique is treated as a second-class member, which is honestly annoying to newer members of the board.

This behavior is unacceptable and is harmful to the harmony of this board. And this is the last I will speak of it and the only reason I speak of it now is because Mr. Andre Roberstan has made it a point that this needs to stop.

If you don’t like what’s being talked about, no one is asking for your opinion. You don’t have to post here. Hell, put all of us “simpletons” on ignore if it makes you feel better about the board. But don’t condescend to others to make yourself better. It’s sad and annoying.

I accept my role in fostering this as well. I’m not innocent. In fact, sometimes I enjoy triggering Bondom because it’s so easy. But someone has to call this crap out. Bondom is just one member of this board out of many and should behave as such.


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I mean from a long time reader, seldom poster on these an other basketball forums, reddit etc. Dom has consistently been a thoughtful contributor in all of the various mediums I have seen him post in from a Thunder perspective, I don't always agree with him, but you don't have to, that's not the point.

The fact you seem proud of making him, and for the record it's definitely NOT just him that you annoy, so exasperated with your constant spewing of complete and utter garbage is frankly disturbing and people should have a real problem with that. If you want to see how to have a dissenting opinion that doesn't make everyone around you hate your guts completely then look at Justin, who actually uses arguments based in logic to convey opinions that he very obviously doesn't agree with but thinks the point should be made. You on the other hand literally pop an acid and come on here proclaiming how we're going to use the shroom you just took and turn it into Bradley Beal and wonder why no one takes you seriously. Its not just how wrong and bad your opinions are, it's how constant and nagging as a poster you try to make your points. You literally made 3 separate threads on the trade board trying in vain to muster some support for your, I mean half baked ideas is bloody generous but that's what we'll go with.

In short. It's not fun to constantly be reading, and reading peoples replies to your rambling nonsense when there's a lot about Thunder basketball to actually discuss but instead you inject your inane rubbish into every conversation and steer it, once again, in a meaningless direction.

Congratulations though I guess, on a successful troll mission. I firmly and desperately want to believe you're a Rockets fan with a LOT of spare time come to mess with everyone here. If so, bravo. If not, Y I K E S.

Yeah... Not going to respond to this negativity for the sake of honoring Roberstan’s wishes.

If you are reading this, Andre Roberstan, this post just further illustrates my point.


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[getrichordie]

I wonder if that has anything to do with how Westbrook has been playing offensively. Gotta love post stats without thinking about them at all. If Westbrook were playing like he did last year, or his whole career, do you think they'd be 20th? It's pretty clear, tbolt.

Wait, so is the offense free flowing or not? Now you say its not because of Russ' Are you even trying today?

Try to stick with me here. The offense looks much better. Westbrook isn't playing half as good as last year. Imagine if he was! The fact they have dipped in offensive rating is a direct result of Westbrooks play. Interpret the stats you post, and think critically about it . They can look better but not be rated as high, when their star is not performing close to his normal levels. Their record indicates this, as it's the first time I can remember them consistently winning with Russ not playing well offensively.

I agree with this. It’s clear that our offense is no longer being catered to Westbrook’s hero-ball and as a result is more “free-flowing” to a degree. Another good adjective I would use to describe the offense is “quick-hitting.”


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[slick_watts]

oh no

[spearsy23]

Wait, so is the offense free flowing or not? Now you say its not because of Russ' Are you even trying today?

Try to stick with me here. The offense looks much better. Westbrook isn't playing half as good as last year. Imagine if he was! The fact they have dipped in offensive rating is a direct result of Westbrooks play. Interpret the stats you post, and think critically about it . They can look better but not be rated as high, when their star is not performing close to his normal levels. Their record indicates this, as it's the first time I can remember them consistently winning with Russ not playing well offensively.

I agree with this. It’s clear that our offense is no longer being catered to Westbrook’s hero-ball and as a result is more “free-flowing” to a degree. Another good adjective I would use to describe the offense is “quick-hitting.”


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My personal favorite is "bad".

[hardenASG13]

You can't gloat how much better he was than brewer (out of the league), but ignore they still have the best defense in the league without him. Youre simply ignoring the fact that you don't like.

I'm not ignoring anything. I've laid them out before you, but you can't acknowledge them because that'd go directly against your whole agenda.

The offense is freed up because all 5 guys are now guarded by the defense, and demand a closeout, a concept that if you don't get you probably never will.

Where is this need for a "closeout" coming from when the Roberson replacement is not even replacement level good from 3? Have you paid attention to our games lately? How teams prefer to stick to Adams and prevent Westbrook from getting to the rim over our "shooters"?

Oh so adams and George with Roberson had a better rating than with Ferguson huh. Wow do I feel like a dolt!

Wait, let me get this straight: Did you just switch your argument from "WE'RE BETTER THAN EVER I TOLD YOU IDOTS" to "Well, we're not better, but I don't care"?

They are still very good with Ferguson. It hasn't (negatively) effected wins and losses.

How can you say that? You don't know that. It stands to reason that the defense would have been at an historically good level with Roberson playing since they replaced Anthony with Grant defensively. And that would have affected wins and losses for sure, simply because the team would have been better overall.

Ferguson also isn't very good, and wouldn't be getting much if any minutes on any other playoff team.

You have to pick a side. It's either "Roberson is useless" or not. You can't point him in a bad light like you've been doing and then hide behind "player xy is not very good" if the whole argument comes crashing down. The guy can't be utterly useless and non-replaceable by anybody at the same time.

And to your adams point.....yes Noel is an adequate backup center. He was available for nothing. Has nothing to do with Roberson.

Oh no, Mister. You're not getting out of that one. You can't go around citing

Best defensive rating in the league.

as a point against Roberson (ie that we don't need him) and then retreat to this silly excuse. The bench is a big part of our overall defensive performance and it's not something Roberson has or would have had anything to do with.

You laid what out? They have the best rated defense in the league, without Andre Roberson. Yes, the bench is playing good D. What's your point? I've been told for years how Roberson was the reason for the teams great defense and was such a valuable piece. Well, how hard was it to fix the bench D? They brought in a backup center on a minimum deal, Schroeder, and drafted diallo, rendering Robersons absence into a complete non issue. What are they missing that Roberson brought?

To your other ridiculous comments, I'm not switching any argument, just hammering home that Roberson hasn't been missed. A worse 3 man rating with Ferguson, who isn't very good, hasn't hurt the team. They are one of the best in the league. Do you think any other playoff team would be playing Ferguson these minutes? What's it say about the great Andre Roberson when he can be replaced by Ferguson, with minimal to no negative impact. Still the top rated defense. You guys simply were duped by the okc media re: Robersons impact over the years.

[getrichordie]

Try to stick with me here. The offense looks much better. Westbrook isn't playing half as good as last year. Imagine if he was! The fact they have dipped in offensive rating is a direct result of Westbrooks play. Interpret the stats you post, and think critically about it . They can look better but not be rated as high, when their star is not performing close to his normal levels. Their record indicates this, as it's the first time I can remember them consistently winning with Russ not playing well offensively.

I agree with this. It’s clear that our offense is no longer being catered to Westbrook’s hero-ball and as a result is more “free-flowing” to a degree. Another good adjective I would use to describe the offense is “quick-hitting.”


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My personal favorite is "bad".

Of course it is. The offense as a whole has not been great relative to the rest of the league, so yes, the offense could be described as bad. We need players that are more offensively inclined than the current combination of Adams, Ferguson, and Grant. If we assume we are "stuck" with George and Westbrook, then we have to find a way to inject more offense into the lineup outside of our "big 2."

[slick_watts]

grant replacing melo on defense has been a revelation to be sure. probably even offensively too since he possesses a synergy with westbrook that melo did not. the crux of the debasement of andre roberson's contributions, for me, boils down to what degree of credit can we reasonably assign terrance ferguson for the maintenance of starters dominance in dre's absence. ferguson isn't really contributing much on offense, objectively less than roberson even. on defense he's improved and superior to the non-dre options (himself included) from last season, but nowhere near dre by any measure i've seen.

the improvement on defense with the starters sans 'dre is more a statement of melo's 2017-18 value relative to 2018-19 grant than anything. tbh i never thought the gap could be large enough to offset losing 'dre but it seems i was wrong about that. this season isn't an indictment on 'dre's value, it cements it considering the defense was just as good last year with melo in the rotation and melo is out of the league now.

as great as the defense has been and the starters have performed, i don't think it begs the question "is 'dre valuable?" from normal people. instead, it begs the question "how good would this team be with a healthy 'dre replacing ferguson?".

the answer is probably a lot better.

[hardenASG13]

oh no

You said we should revisit it, bruh. That's what I'm doing. Still the top rated defense in the league, season is basically half over. No Roberson. Looks like they have defied the odds and replaced his incredible impact......by adding a backup C on the minimum, schroeder, and a pu pu platter of diallo/tlc/burton/Nader. Not a good look for the value of your boy.