OKC Thunder Offseason 2017: The Reshapening

[slick_watts]

With all due respect, aren't small market and destination somewhat synonymous? All things being equal, if I have a choice between living in Oklahoma and Miami, I am choosing Miami.

there's a connotation with 'small market' and 'limited resources'. the thunder do not really have limited resources compared to the rest of the nba. they may be a bit more careful about avoiding the repeater tax, but most teams have done everything they can to avoid this. the big 3 heat amnestied mike miller to avoid it in the midst of their run. dallas disassembled a championship roster in part to avoid it. the only teams that have paid an exorbitant tax bill are the warriors, cavs and nets.

the cap spike killed us. sam presti made some poor bets along the way.

Trading James Harden wasn't just a small market decision, It was a financial decision driven in part by the reality of running an NBA franchise in a small market. There is a reason Pesti uses the word sustainable almost every time he opens his mouth, the Thunder simply can't afford to shell out the kind of money that a team like the Warriors are shelling out. Have you seen what their projected salary + tax bill will look like in a few years? $400 Million. That is not a sustainable model for a team like the Thunder.

this is preposterous. james harden still had a year of rookie scale left on his deal. any imposition regarding hitting the repeater tax was imagined by sam presti at the time. the thunder could have retained james harden and only paid one year of luxury tax.

no the thunder cannot afford to do what the warriors may do in your example. they haven't done it yet. they are entering this year with a $124mm payroll, barely over the tax and below the apron. the thunder have been big spenders during their top seasons, though, and could easily have a payroll this year just like golden state's. golden state's money is just allocated better.

the harden trade is a red herring. the biggest challenges the thunder face relative to other teams isn't the ability to spend money or not, it's the ability to attract and keep free agents.

[spearsy23]

Maybe Presti is waiting on the Hayward decision to see where the dominoes fall before pulling the trigger on Gay.

I agree. Wild thought here, is there a chance Presti traded for PG just to flip him?

Read on Twitter

[getrichordie]

Maybe Presti is waiting on the Hayward decision to see where the dominoes fall before pulling the trigger on Gay.

I agree. Wild thought here, is there a chance Presti traded for PG just to flip him?

I think that would be the smart play at first glance, but depending on what moves we make and how we fill out the rest of the roster, it is possible that Presti may swoon George by getting him to the WCF. At worst, if our roster isn't working out by the trade deadline, we can flip him. But I still think Presti has some tricks up his sleeve. Let's see what happens.

[slick_watts]

Maybe Presti is waiting on the Hayward decision to see where the dominoes fall before pulling the trigger on Gay.

I agree. Wild thought here, is there a chance Presti traded for PG just to flip him?

Read on Twitter

this would be an epic flip and a supreme power move by sam presti. it should really be considered.

[Atomic Punk]

With all due respect, aren't small market and destination somewhat synonymous? All things being equal, if I have a choice between living in Oklahoma and Miami, I am choosing Miami.

there's a connotation with 'small market' and 'limited resources'. the thunder do not really have limited resources compared to the rest of the nba. they may be a bit more careful about avoiding the repeater tax, but most teams have done everything they can to avoid this. the big 3 heat amnestied mike miller to avoid it in the midst of their run. dallas disassembled a championship roster in part to avoid it. the only teams that have paid an exorbitant tax bill are the warriors, cavs and nets.

the cap spike killed us. sam presti made some poor bets along the way.

Trading James Harden wasn't just a small market decision, It was a financial decision driven in part by the reality of running an NBA franchise in a small market. There is a reason Pesti uses the word sustainable almost every time he opens his mouth, the Thunder simply can't afford to shell out the kind of money that a team like the Warriors are shelling out. Have you seen what their projected salary + tax bill will look like in a few years? $400 Million. That is not a sustainable model for a team like the Thunder.

this is preposterous. james harden still had a year of rookie scale left on his deal. any imposition regarding hitting the repeater tax was imagined by sam presti at the time. the thunder could have retained james harden and only paid one year of luxury tax.

no the thunder cannot afford to do what the warriors may do in your example. they haven't done it yet. they are entering this year with a $124mm payroll, barely over the tax and below the apron. the thunder have been big spenders during their top seasons, though, and could easily have a payroll this year just like golden state's. golden state's money is just allocated better.

the harden trade is a red herring. the biggest challenges the thunder face relative to other teams isn't the ability to spend money or not, it's the ability to attract and keep free agents.

Then you tell me, why trade Harden when they did? And yes, small market teams like the Thunder will always struggle to attract and retain talent. How do you know what resources the Thunder have compared to other teams? But back to my original point, small market teams are at a disadvantage, call it destination, call it being careful with their money, call it whatever you want, but small market teams will always struggle.

[Atomic Punk]

Maybe Presti is waiting on the Hayward decision to see where the dominoes fall before pulling the trigger on Gay.

I agree. Wild thought here, is there a chance Presti traded for PG just to flip him?

I think that would be the smart play at first glance, but depending on what moves we make and how we fill out the rest of the roster, it is possible that Presti may swoon George by getting him to the WCF. At worst, if our roster isn't working out by the trade deadline, we can flip him. But I still think Presti has some tricks up his sleeve. Let's see what happens.

I think if Presti were to do something like this it would signal one of two things; A one year dive to the bottom of the conference with an eye on next year (Russ would have to be on board with this) or, the precursor to a complete rebuild which would include trading Westbrook.

[spearsy23]

this is preposterous. james harden still had a year of rookie scale left on his deal. any imposition regarding hitting the repeater tax was imagined by sam presti at the time. the thunder could have retained james harden and only paid one year of luxury tax.

So your contention is that the harden trade was due to imagined financial ramifications? Like Presti didn't consult ownership he just decided of his own accord that he couldn't pay?

[slick_watts]

Then you tell me, why trade Harden when they did?

that's the million dollar question, isn't it? james harden had a year left on rookie scale, and the thunder were in zero danger of tax spending in 2012-13 and likely 2013-14.

And yes, small market teams like the Thunder will always struggle to attract and retain talent.

because the cities are less attractive, not (usually) due to some spending inequality.

How do you know what resources the Thunder have compared to other teams? But back to my original point, small market teams are at a disadvantage, call it destination, call it being careful with their money, call it whatever you want, but small market teams will always struggle.

i don't know what resources they have but we know what they've spent on payroll relative to the rest of the nba.

[spearsy23]

I agree. Wild thought here, is there a chance Presti traded for PG just to flip him?

Read on Twitter

this would be an epic flip and a supreme power move by sam presti. it should really be considered.

It really shouldn't, unless it's bringing back love and another asset.

[slick_watts]

this is preposterous. james harden still had a year of rookie scale left on his deal. any imposition regarding hitting the repeater tax was imagined by sam presti at the time. the thunder could have retained james harden and only paid one year of luxury tax.

So your contention is that the harden trade was due to imagined financial ramifications? Like Presti didn't consult ownership he just decided of his own accord that he couldn't pay?

i don't know what the reason was. the thunder were not in imminent danger of tax problems.

[Atomic Punk]

this is preposterous. james harden still had a year of rookie scale left on his deal. any imposition regarding hitting the repeater tax was imagined by sam presti at the time. the thunder could have retained james harden and only paid one year of luxury tax.

So your contention is that the harden trade was due to imagined financial ramifications? Like Presti didn't consult ownership he just decided of his own accord that he couldn't pay?

i don't know what the reason was. the thunder were not in imminent danger of tax problems.

Yes, but these are savvy businessmen who must certainly understand the market in which they operate and are always thinking three moves ahead. And I didn't mention tax problems, you did. I am simply stating that small market teams operate at a disadvantage. This is not a phenomenon that is restricted to the NBA.

[spearsy23]

Disappointed for jazz fans. Hope Boston backslides.

[slick_watts]

So your contention is that the harden trade was due to imagined financial ramifications? Like Presti didn't consult ownership he just decided of his own accord that he couldn't pay?

i don't know what the reason was. the thunder were not in imminent danger of tax problems.

Yes, but these are savvy businessmen who must certainly understand the market in which they operate and are always thinking three moves ahead. And I didn't mention tax problems, you did. I am simply stating that small market teams operate at a disadvantage. This is not a phenomenon that is restricted to the NBA.

there are mechanisms that limit the disadvantage.

problems with the luxury tax and (especially) avoiding repeater tax are the main drivers for payroll management in the nba.

[ThunderBolt]

How can we get Marcus smart?

[Thunder Up]

How can we get Marcus smart?

I'd rather have Rozier

[Atomic Punk]

Then you tell me, why trade Harden when they did?

that's the million dollar question, isn't it? james harden had a year left on rookie scale, and the thunder were in zero danger of tax spending in 2012-13 and likely 2013-14.

And yes, small market teams like the Thunder will always struggle to attract and retain talent.

because the cities are less attractive, not (usually) due to some spending inequality.

How do you know what resources the Thunder have compared to other teams? But back to my original point, small market teams are at a disadvantage, call it destination, call it being careful with their money, call it whatever you want, but small market teams will always struggle.

i don't know what resources they have but we know what they've spent on payroll relative to the rest of the nba.

Right, and perhaps they do not view that strategy as a sustainable one. And again, small market maters when it comes to spending money. What does the Thunders local TV deal look like compared to L.A or N.Y or even Golden State? How much are court side seats or luxury boxes going for? All of this matters when ownership is deciding on how much to spend and when to spend it.

[Atomic Punk]

How can we get Marcus smart?

As a backup to Russ? What do you think his roll would be for this team? I like his aggressiveness and his D but I wonder about his shooting and handles.

[Andre Roberstan]

How can we get Marcus smart?

As a backup to Russ? What do you think his roll would be for this team? I like his aggressiveness and his D but I wonder about his shooting and handles.

His handles aren't bad. He's an awful shooter, though. Be a fantastic backup to Russ, and our defensive lineups would be mean.

[Atomic Punk]

How can we get Marcus smart?

I'd rather have Rozier

He is a solid defender and plus rebounder for his size, but can he be effective as a full time point, even in a backup role? I wonder what it would take to get him. Or should the Thunder look at established, veteran point guards like Sergio or Beno?

[Thunder Up]

How can we get Marcus smart?

I'd rather have Rozier

He is a solid defender and plus rebounder for his size, but can he be effective as a full time point, even in a backup role? I wonder what it would take to get him. Or should the Thunder look at established, veteran point guards like Sergio or Beno?

Hell no to Beno, but Sergio is the dream