OKC Thunder Offseason: Avengers Assemble

[getrichordie]

Rewatching and it's halftime so some takeaways:
Russ is still pretty good

Offense is going to be awkward. Maybe it's a function of no Abrines/Pat but I doubt it. The second unit has nothing but Melo isolation and it's going to be tough to switch styles as starters come in and out. You can't expect a guy to go from iso to ball movement at the flip of a switch.

Ferguson. I'm a lot more impressed than I expected to be at this stage. Maybe it's the lack of expectations, but to me he looks like a better option than Singler or Grant were as SF's last year. Athetically he looks like a faster Grant with some level of coordination.

Dre has caught some flack for this game, but I'm not seeing why unless someone suddenly expected him to be a scorer. He's actually made some nifty passes both in transition and the halfcourt, and been decisive with the ball with the exception of one hesitation when he caught the ball at the three point line.

Still Dre, He is the best player in the league at showing token pressure after a skip pass to the three point line then recovering to his man. He blew up two otherwise open threes like this.

Adams looks a little better contesting jumpshots. Last year mobile centers were basically allowed free reign from 15 feet out. Boogie still got some looks, but it was nothing like the Philly game last year where Embiid was like a 7/11.

A Grant/Melo frontcourt isn't going to work. They're getting worked on the boards and Patterson isn't going to help much there. We need to find a real center, even if it's a stiff like Hibbert.

Of course that's based on a rewatching of one half of a preseason game, so it all means bunk overall.

Where can I rewatch, bruv?

[spearsy23]

Rewatching and it's halftime so some takeaways:
Russ is still pretty good

Offense is going to be awkward. Maybe it's a function of no Abrines/Pat but I doubt it. The second unit has nothing but Melo isolation and it's going to be tough to switch styles as starters come in and out. You can't expect a guy to go from iso to ball movement at the flip of a switch.

Ferguson. I'm a lot more impressed than I expected to be at this stage. Maybe it's the lack of expectations, but to me he looks like a better option than Singler or Grant were as SF's last year. Athetically he looks like a faster Grant with some level of coordination.

Dre has caught some flack for this game, but I'm not seeing why unless someone suddenly expected him to be a scorer. He's actually made some nifty passes both in transition and the halfcourt, and been decisive with the ball with the exception of one hesitation when he caught the ball at the three point line.

Still Dre, He is the best player in the league at showing token pressure after a skip pass to the three point line then recovering to his man. He blew up two otherwise open threes like this.

Adams looks a little better contesting jumpshots. Last year mobile centers were basically allowed free reign from 15 feet out. Boogie still got some looks, but it was nothing like the Philly game last year where Embiid was like a 7/11.

A Grant/Melo frontcourt isn't going to work. They're getting worked on the boards and Patterson isn't going to help much there. We need to find a real center, even if it's a stiff like Hibbert.

Of course that's based on a rewatching of one half of a preseason game, so it all means bunk overall.

Where can I rewatch, bruv?

www.nba.com/thunder/live

[spearsy23]

Just finished the second half and besides getting to watch the young guys it was worthless in terms of forming opinions. Guys playing in roles and positions they'll never be in in game doesn't really matter. Especially Robes as the offensive hub.

One interesting aspect is that Perry Jones didn't even stand out among the d-leaguers and scrubs. That's fine for a rookie, but dude is basically entering his prime and still doesn't look like an NBA player.

Daniel Hamilton has a fun game to watch, but to get the ball time necessary for his game to be effective he'd need to be a lot better. He's got a superstar game with role player talent.

I really like Ferguson, he's got a demeanor that seems like he's going to go at you no matter who you are.

Does the lack of Singler mean he's glued to the bench until we manage to get rid of him?

[Pillendreher]

Semaj Christon just had one of the worst rookie seasons of all time. Out of the 1263 guys who have been on the floor for at least 900 minutes and have taken at least 200 shots in their rookie season, 2016-2017 Christon ranks:

-20th worst in TS%
-7th worst in PER

So no, he should not see another minute in the NBA. He has sucked in the D-League. He has sucked in Italy. He has sucked in the NBA. He is a basketball scrub, plain and simple.

I'd much rather have Canaan who at least is close to being a neutral player offensively (-0.2 OBPM on his career) than the dumpsterfire that is Christon.

But you know what? Why the **** should this even matter? Your 3rd PG never plays. Except when he plays for Billy Donovan because he thinks he should give any player he can find minutes (except with Huestis of course) and even play them in the Playoffs. If Singler gets to play, why not Christon?

It's nuts to me we have to keep repeating this. Christon is awful. End of story. I know some of our regulars here watched the team last year and ought to have seen how terrible he was. I don't think Daniel Hamilton is any good but I'd be willing to roll with him as the 3rd guard over Semaj. At least there's some semblance of upside as he just turned 22 in August. Semaj is turning 25 next month. He's hot garbage. He should never have made a NBA roster in the first place. Frankly, the fact that Billy supposedly "loves Semaj" is enough to make me wonder if Billy should continue coaching here.

The Thunder fanbase apparently can't help itself. While other fanbases call out trash players (and sometimes go even beyond that), it's like Thunder fans can't bring themselves to do it. Instead they expect every terrible player to 'turn the corner' when he does something well once a month. The same thing happened with both Waiters and Kanter.

A Grant/Melo frontcourt isn't going to work. They're getting worked on the boards and Patterson isn't going to help much there. We need to find a real center, even if it's a stiff like Hibbert.

Exactly. You can play out of position if the situation allows it, but only having one real Center and only one real PF for a whole season is just not enough.

Can't be Hibbert tho if we want to keep George.

Does the lack of Singler mean he's glued to the bench until we manage to get rid of him?

You can't show your hand this early. Donovan will start him come October 19th. Just you wait. You know Singler will get his token minutes.

[Old Man Game]

One interesting aspect is that Perry Jones didn't even stand out among the d-leaguers and scrubs. That's fine for a rookie, but dude is basically entering his prime and still doesn't look like an NBA player.

Which is handy since he's not a (regular season) NBA player.


Sent from my Pixel using RealGM mobile app

[Old Man Game]

Daniel Hamilton has a fun game to watch, but to get the ball time necessary for his game to be effective he'd need to be a lot better. He's got a superstar game with role player talent.

He seems like the sort of guy who could become a superstar in an overseas League. Just not quite talented enough to really make it in the NBA.


Sent from my Pixel using RealGM mobile app

[thekaoswithin]

Daniel Hamilton has a fun game to watch, but to get the ball time necessary for his game to be effective he'd need to be a lot better. He's got a superstar game with role player talent.

He seems like the sort of guy who could become a superstar in an overseas League. Just not quite talented enough to really make it in the NBA.


Sent from my Pixel using RealGM mobile app

Really? I've been really impressed with Hamilton. Good handler, nice vision, good defence. Shooting could use some work but i'm not seeing the whole "not talented enough for the NBA" thing. With some experience I think he could be a real solid backup PG.

[bbms]

Question: who should get more touches offensively? Melo or George?

My take: George looks like a better offensive player as of now, but keeping him locked in defensively has lots of value. Having most of George and Roberson's energy saved for the defensive side of the ball might make our wing defense the clearest elite trait of this team beside transition offense. Thus, I do believe that sacrificing this surplus of offensive talent in benefit of having an elite trait defensively might be a winning strategy in the long run as is the current state of this roster.

What do you guys think about that?

[ozwizard8]

Not gonna argue this with you everyday. Curious to see how the roles on the team play out. He looks terrible.

it's fun until people introduce facts and data, huh.

@Pillendreher

Selecting "certain" data to support your argument doesnt mean showing facts.
We're talking about a player with those stats. He's probabaly one of the worst 3pt fg% perimeter player starting in the NBA.
Robertson's FT shooting is so bad he's basically treated like DJ, D.Howard.
3P%= .245
FT%= .423

And you guys somehow introduce "facts and data" that doesnt include those fundemental stats.

OBPM, Individual ORTG.
Those stats related with who Robertson plays with. Better OBPM doesnt mean much.
ORTG also related with team around him. Robertson finishes many layups, wide open shots thanks to WB and other starters.

TS%
Robertson cant shoot and he kills spacing. Its a fact.
Hiding his 3P% and FT% wont change that.
He finishes plays like a big men. He avoids shooting as much as he can. Therefore he get that TS%.
He makes those shots thanks to WB and other starters. Play him with 2nd unit you'll see worse numbers.
***
Pairing 3 superstars doesnt mean you'll add their stats up. There is only 1 ball for them.
Having 3 elite scorers should make whole offense efficient. Melo, PG would create much more space for WB to operate. If Robertson continue to shoot like that he'd neutralize that advantage.
Team should look for other rotations to solve that problem. Because opponents would explode that problem especially in playoffs.

Robertson's 3P% and FT% is probably one of the worst in NBA. And he's kinda exposed more than last year.
S.Presti gave that contract to him as he believed he'll develop in those areas. I hope for that too because good 3&D player would help this team tremendously.

[getrichordie]

Just finished the second half and besides getting to watch the young guys it was worthless in terms of forming opinions. Guys playing in roles and positions they'll never be in in game doesn't really matter. Especially Robes as the offensive hub.

One interesting aspect is that Perry Jones didn't even stand out among the d-leaguers and scrubs. That's fine for a rookie, but dude is basically entering his prime and still doesn't look like an NBA player.

Daniel Hamilton has a fun game to watch, but to get the ball time necessary for his game to be effective he'd need to be a lot better. He's got a superstar game with role player talent.

I really like Ferguson, he's got a demeanor that seems like he's going to go at you no matter who you are.

Does the lack of Singler mean he's glued to the bench until we manage to get rid of him?

I think we can give him some burn in the 1st preseason game just to see if anything's different, lol. In the second preseason game, let's hope one of two things are happening. Either we are trading him, or Presti and Donovan are smart enough to know what he is already and to see what we have in these other players.

[Pillendreher]

@Pillendreher

Selecting "certain" data to support your argument doesnt mean showing facts.
We're talking about a player with those stats. He's probabaly one of the worst 3pt fg% perimeter player starting in the NBA.
Robertson's FT shooting is so bad he's basically treated like DJ, D.Howard.
3P%= .245
FT%= .423

And you guys somehow introduce "facts and data" that doesnt include those fundemental stats.

Except those 'fundemental stats' are part of the stats I posted. Go look em up.

OBPM, Individual ORTG.
Those stats related with who Robertson plays with. Better OBPM doesnt mean much.
ORTG also related with team around him. Robertson finishes many layups, wide open shots thanks to WB and other starters.

So you're telling me has been a positive overall player while being on very good offensive teams? I'll take that.

Pairing 3 superstars doesnt mean you'll add their stats up. There is only 1 ball for them.
Having 3 elite scorers should make whole offense efficient. Melo, PG would create much more space for WB to operate. If Robertson continue to shoot like that he'd neutralize that advantage.

He should not continue to shoot like that. He should attack the rim because of all the space he's gonna get.

Team should look for other rotations to solve that problem. Because opponents would explode that problem especially in playoffs.

It's up to the team and Roberson to find ways to prevent that from happening.

[RalphSampsonJr]

Contrary to Roberson, the defense respects grant enough to guard him, and if they don't he is able to drive and dunk it. And make a foul shot/draw a foul.

grant attempted less than one shot per game off drives last year. a major part of his offensive repertoire, to be sure.

Fact is, roberson doesn't do much defensively Paul George can't. Melo can guard slower/less talented wings. As can grant. Don't give me the Roberson allows PG to rest. Westbrook allows PG to rest, as he facilitates the offense on this team. Assuming adams plays with the big 3 alot, the other player on the floor will wide open, alot. Time to put a competent shooter (Patterson, abrines), or just overall better offensive player (grant) in his role.

With George out there, the need for his D is alot less, and they are going to be scoring so much stops will not become as necessary, although I submit they will still be a good defensive team without him. They have plenty of personnel options to guard a variety of looks without him effectively. It's not fair to the potential of this team to play 2 non shooters (Roberson and adams) around it's big 3. It just makes no sense, and Adams is going to play big minutes as he should.

your whole concept here is so bizarre. stops will not become as necessary? the need for his D is 'alot' less? did you not notice we have carmelo anthony playing pf now? a vastly inferior defensive player to gibson, sabonis, or ibaka? how much better defensively do you believe george is to victor oladipo?

how much do you think inserting abrines in the game for roberson would improve the offense? enough to offset the difference between abrines and roberson defensively? if so, what is your basis for this theory? because every time a player is inserted into the starting unit for roberson the starting unit is worse.

jerami grant is a horrible offensive player. you think of offense in these narrow slices. grant can dribble and he can make a three sometimes. big deal. the gap between these players is so enormous on defense, why does that even matter? grant is not a 'two-way' player. he's a zero-way player. he's one of the worst offensive players in the nba. but because he can dunk and block a shot sometimes you seem to like him.

for once i'd like to see a post from you that's not just theories and fantasies out of a 2k game. we have a pretty good idea of what the starters with roberson will be like-- hint: probably pretty damn good. if we had a better player than roberson sitting around sure put him in there. but every (read: EVERY) metric out there we can use shows roberson as immensely better than either grant or abrines. so you need to offer up a little more than 'the need for his D is alot less' if anyone is going to take you seriously.

This is his theory: "that guy can shoot better than that guy. Therefore that guy is better for the team".
He said he appreciates D yet keeps saying how it's not required as much..
This arguement will just keep coming up when one side uses proof while the other uses opinion

[spearsy23]

Pairing 3 superstars doesnt mean you'll add their stats up. There is only 1 ball for them.
Having 3 elite scorers should make whole offense efficient. Melo, PG would create much more space for WB to operate. If Robertson continue to shoot like that he'd neutralize that advantage.
Team should look for other rotations to solve that problem. Because opponents would explode that problem especially in playoffs.

We already have proof that this doesn't happen to a detrimental extent.

[Pillendreher]

We're all over the place and not in a good way.

[bondom34]

I don't like what Melo added to the offense tbh.

[Pillendreher]

I don't like what Donovan is doing. It's like his standing bet to throw out as many impossible lineups as possible carried over into this season.

[Pillendreher]

Yo we look like crap on both sides of the floor.

[Dadouv47]

We are not moving the ball enough (not something new)

[Dadouv47]

If we want to play fast pace during some games we should put Carmelo at the 5 and Patterson at the 4. A bit crazy but could work against a lot of teams.

[Pillendreher]

Grant still so trash.