Oklahoma City Thunder Regular Season Thread: Part IV

[bondom34]

And I'd feel better if I thought Presti would do anything this offseason.

He'll have to, Dion needs a max deal

It blows me the hell away that Cam can't touch the ourt while Singler looks lost on Curry, Dion's a -18, and Foye somehow has the worst net rating on the team in 6 minutes. They might as well have just traded him for Foye.

Presti's trying to make me hate this franchise. Everything is moronic.

[Pillendreher]

This is the first time in my life I've dreamt about an NBA game: We won in my dream. Then I woke up. Man....

This is gonna be a hybrid venting/sunshine-pumping post; prepare yourself.

Rotations/Lineups

Presti and Donovan have to get their heads out of their asses. They're killing every momentum this team is gathering by their ridiculous love for garbage players. The starting 5 was +28.9 yesterday in 29 minutes of playing time; that lineup was spanking the Warriors. Russ/KD/Ibaka/Adams is +7.5 in 45 minutes: Our starters can definetely hang with this team.

Where it all goes to hell is when our bench players come in. First of all: STOP IT WITH BENCHING PAYNE, IT'S NOT WORKING AT ALL!!!! Durant-Waiters-Kanter without Payne or Westbrook has a TOV Ratio of 29.8 - they've turned the ball over on almost every third possession. That's insane! Durant can't be point guard and scorer at the same time - it's too big a load and it hurts the team. Give Payne his minutes back, you incompetent asshats!
Maybe this incredibly stupid experiment will be over after Donovan benched Foye's ass in the 2nd half:

[tweet]https://twitter.com/anthonyVslater/status/703835934895116288[/tweet]

Secondly, and I know this is all to no avail, STOP PLAYING WAITERS FOR CRYING OUT LOUD. Waiters' On/Off yesterday: -47,8. He got 31 minutes and really didn't do anything on the court. Anything he did offensively, he negated instantly on the defensive end. Such a terrible, terrible player. The whole NBA knows it, yet we're playing him every damn night.
Adams On/Off yesterday: +22.2. But of course Dion got more minutes, because he's Dion Buckets.


BBIQ

It's baffling. After about six years of contention, we still look like a team full of rookies half the time. This game should have never gone to overtime. We're up 11 with 4:51 to go and have really outplayed the Warriors (great defense over the first 43 minutes: 92.4 DRtG against the best offensive team in the league) and we just stop playing basketball. No more movement, no more passing, just the same old **** every time down the floor. Trying to get KD the ball, they double and we don't know how to proceed. Just move the ball and move around the court. You can't ignore players like they did with Roberson if those guys aren't standing around somewhere - just keep moving and don't let them settle defensively. I just don't get why they don't understand this.
Oh and Billy waited way too long with that timeout in the 4th - we'd gone scoreless over a 3-minute-stretch and that's when he called timeout. Durant got to the rim right afterwards.

Refs

I can't help myself: They were really bad. I don't think that's a fould by Durant on Iggy and there were several incredibly bad calls before that. Russ got hammered several times, so did Robes and Adams. Draymond Green could scream at refs all night long, no T. Just stop helping the Warriors, NBA.

Defense


And suddenly we're able to defend against the best offensive team in the league. I really don't get it why we can't bring the effort night in and night out.

[Dadouv47]

We used to be the team that could be losing by 8-10 points with 2 minutes left and still managed to win. Now its Golden State's time, congrats to them. But its not normal that we are losing every single close game this season. Our opponent just have to play great defense against KD and WB to get some stops. We can't find easy buckets anymore.
I won't discuss about Donovan, presti, ***Waiters, singler because everything as already been said (for months, not only after yesterday game).

OK, Durant cost us the game at the end of regulation. But we were going to win because of him. The thunder organization used to help durant to show his greatness, but now they are just screwing with his career. I love the thunder as I love Durant, but I don't want the legacy of an all time great being destroyed by a stupid organization. Sure, Steph Curry is the MVP this season. It's well deserved and congrats to him for everything he's doing. But today I will read every *** headline talking about curry, but I can't stop thinking that the best player in the two meetings between the thunder and the warriors this year was Durant ( and it's not even close to me). He scored 40 and 37 while being guarded by some of the best defenders of the NBA, was very efficient, played GREAT defense, and so many other things. He's wasting his prime.

I also disagree a bit with some comments against Westbrook ( mainly because of his stats). He was clearly better the last game against the warriors, but I think he still played great. Of course when u have to play 1vs5 ( in overtime) against an elite defensive team it's going to be difficult not to make some turnovers and not to take difficult bad shots. There was no movement on the offensive end, no one to help him.

More positively, I'm happy to see that the old Ibaka still exists, that he's showing that he wants to compete and to win.

I think this lose will hurt us a LOT. We will lose a lot of games and I think we will play pretty bad against GS next week. Now i really hope we finish 4th and play Golden State in the second round of the playoffs. Even if we have a 10-15% chance to beat them, i'm fine with that.

[NaturalThunder]

I still can't swallow that game. I know Curry is a phenomenal shooter, the best ever. But to shoo 75% from three on 16 attempts while taking some off the absurd threes he took last night? I can say with almost 100% confidence that if we played the Warriors again and Curry took those exact same 16 threes, he would not make 12 of them. I'm not even sure he'd make half of them.

And despite all that, if Durant or Donovan just have the wherewithal to call a timeout in regulation on that last play, we win. Heck, that turnover by Durant might not have mattered if Donovan wasn't a moron and had given at least some of Waiters', Singler's, and Foye's minutes to Payne and, to a lesser extent, Morrow. I know Morrow has sucked most of the year, but he's still a player you absolutely 100% have to account for on the offensive end and he provides 100x better spacing than Waiters, Singler, and Foye.

But yeah...

Waiters + Singler = 54 minutes and a -26

Payne + Morrow = 0 minutes


How can Donovan justify this? Everyone did their part except two terrible players Donovan insisted on giving 54 combined minutes to when he has two better options buried on his bench. Even Kanter had a positive +/-. For whatever reasons, he seems to matchup well with the Warriors.

[Zagor]

Heads up guys.
After first game, imbecils told us "ah, they missed a lot of open shoots, next game you will lose by margin 20".....now we can see this team can play and compete with Dubs.
Starting five was great, Kanter was solid....but then there are lot of problems. Dion,Foye,Morrow and Payne. Man, they are bad.
Morrow and Foye could be used in some system were they would get open shoot, but with KD and Russ it's not going to happen.

Payne is different story. He needs experience and games like yesterday are perfect for that.
For me, Dion wasn't so bad....I would even say he was ok.
We need to take care of turnovers. Too easy for them.
Role which Singler played, I would bet Huestis could played better. Basically, role is defense and hustle....nothing else. And man, Huestis is faster,stronger and more athletic than Kyle.

[Dadouv47]

I would have preferred to lose by 40 points because this loss REALLY hurts, but maybe the team will react in a good way ( I'm really not sure about that, but we can hope so). Our bigs are killing warriors bigs. Only Speights caused us a lot of trouble because of his shooting abilities. Roberson was also very good. We have enough offensive weapons with our starting line up to overcome roberson poor offensive game, and thats really positive because we need his defense.

But at the end t's always the same story...We badly need an average wing player coming from the bench to help us scoring. We can make close games with the warriors, but without some more help, we can't beat them in a 7 game series.

At this point i wouldn't mind signing Kevin Martin ( even if i really don't like him)

[Bergmaniac]

That late game offense by the Thunder in the last 5 minutes regulation was just hilariously bad. Durant is an awesome ISO player, but wasting most of the shot clock to finally give him the ball 30 feet away from the basket with a man at his back and another a foot away coming to double is just beyond dumb. They played better offense in the OT without Durant simply because they actually ran plays, basic ones, but it was good enough to create some space.

Also Durant as a main ball handler when Russ sits is just not working. He is a turnover machine at this role.

And Westbrook should really stop taking these 3s when he gets the ball outside with 5-6 second left on the clock. He must be shooting something like 20% at most on them, much less in close games towards the end. That's plenty of time for him to get a better shot than off the dribble 3 with a defender challenging.

Still, you almost won thanks to the defensive effort and rebounding, would have won if Curry wasn't in video game mode.

[KD35Brah]

[tweet]https://twitter.com/NBA/status/703962930518335489[/tweet]

Losing him so many times.....

Roberson allowing Klay to blow by him and make it a 2pt game.

None of the coaches or Players calling a timeout when KD was trapped in a corner. KD cross court passing it....

Westbrook took more contact in that entire 4th with no calls and Iggy flops into Durant gets the call where refs usually hold there whistles.

Westbrook and Dion sleepwalking and losing their man constantly is destroying this defense, Dion should never play a minute in OKC again.

[getrichordie]

Wow, the comments concerning the Thunder-Warriors game is crazy.

What do you guys expect going up against a historically great team? Yeah Curry hit 75% from three but that's what he does. It's like Warriors fans getting mad at Green because Durant was wrecking him. It's what Durant does. You have to respect his shot. There's not much you can do when he's on fire like he is.

And why isn't Payne playing? Because he is a rookie and doesn't match up well with the Warriors. Payne makes a lot of defensive mistakes and doesn't have the NBA experience necessary to compete with GSW.

You are looking at our Finals match up. I'm not playing Payne in the Finals if I'm Donovan. Not enough experience. I'd rather stick with Foye, Singler, Dion and let them get more acclimated with their roles in OKC's rotation.

Listen guys, we will grow from this string of losses. This loss will motivate OKC more than ever. OKC will continue to learn from their mistakes as much as they want to. Donovan can teach them all day, but it doesn't mean our guys will listen. I think that Donovan deserves a lot of credit and is being overlooked here. He has the balls and the sense to play the Singlers and Dions and Foyes over the Paynes. That takes a lot of guts and a lot of smarts. I'm really impressed with Donovan. He is going to get this team right.

Basically, upcoming games against the Spurs, Clippers, Warriors, Blazers (yes, Blazers), Celtics (yes, Celtics) will definitely sharpen us up. We are the knife and they are the sharpeners. I've been saying it, we have been playing to our competition. Some teams are just like that. Some teams rise in big situations and come to play with more heart when they know a lot is on the line. OKC is one of those teams.

So...

Keep Calm
and
Thunder On

[bondom34]

I'd agree, but the coach has shown he's not an NBA caliber coach, we have 3 players who aren't rotation caliber players (minimum) playing big minutes, the backup PG was benched so 1 of them gets his minutes, the defense is inconsistent, and honestly they're unmotivated at times. Its a second round out and Presti may be cocky enough to not do anything this offseason but keep Dion and try again. I just need time away.

[getrichordie]

Re-watching the game and here's a few notes:

Why does Green get away with talking to the refs how he does? Anyone else and that's a technical.
Kanter playing a lot better defense than year. He has improved drastically!
Curry's 3 is unstoppable. Not much you can do to defend him on ISO.
Durant is starting to hit his threes and his crossover is killer.
Durant got called for a BS foul on the Curry cut to the basket early in the 4th. So much ticky-tack BS.
Green straight up fouled Adams around the 6:00 mark in the 4th on his cut to the basket.
Good defense in the 4th by OKC but awful shot selection and low BBIQ late in the 4th led to overtime.

[getrichordie]

I'd agree, but the coach has shown he's not an NBA caliber coach, we have 3 players who aren't rotation caliber players (minimum) playing big minutes, the backup PG was benched so 1 of them gets his minutes, the defense is inconsistent, and honestly they're unmotivated at times. Its a second round out and Presti may be cocky enough to not do anything this offseason but keep Dion and try again. I just need time away.

Donovan is a NBA-caliber coach. I think that it's naive to write him off.

We didn't call a timeout because we were surprised that they didn't foul Durant. It took us off guard but we will learn from our mistakes. Donovan is a quick learner.

[bondom34]

I'd agree, but the coach has shown he's not an NBA caliber coach, we have 3 players who aren't rotation caliber players (minimum) playing big minutes, the backup PG was benched so 1 of them gets his minutes, the defense is inconsistent, and honestly they're unmotivated at times. Its a second round out and Presti may be cocky enough to not do anything this offseason but keep Dion and try again. I just need time away.

Donovan is a NBA-caliber coach. I think that it's naive to write him off.

We didn't call a timeout because we were surprised that they didn't foul Durant. It took us off guard but we will learn from our mistakes. Donovan is a quick learner.

He is? Because he's certainly taken his time this season, and when he learned Singler sucks he unlearned it really quick.

And why would they foul KD in the backcourt when he had to advance it in 8 seconds? Apparently BD didn't know that rule. They had no reason to foul.

He's an awful coach, can't motivate, can't figure out rotations, and 3 of the worst players on the team play some of the most minutes

[Cuban_Linx]

Wow, the comments concerning the Thunder-Warriors game is crazy.

What do you guys expect going up against a historically great team? Yeah Curry hit 75% from three but that's what he does. It's like Warriors fans getting mad at Green because Durant was wrecking him. It's what Durant does. You have to respect his shot. There's not much you can do when he's on fire like he is.

And why isn't Payne playing? Because he is a rookie and doesn't match up well with the Warriors. Payne makes a lot of defensive mistakes and doesn't have the NBA experience necessary to compete with GSW.

You are looking at our Finals match up. I'm not playing Payne in the Finals if I'm Donovan. Not enough experience. I'd rather stick with Foye, Singler, Dion and let them get more acclimated with their roles in OKC's rotation.

Listen guys, we will grow from this string of losses. This loss will motivate OKC more than ever. OKC will continue to learn from their mistakes as much as they want to. Donovan can teach them all day, but it doesn't mean our guys will listen. I think that Donovan deserves a lot of credit and is being overlooked here. He has the balls and the sense to play the Singlers and Dions and Foyes over the Paynes. That takes a lot of guts and a lot of smarts. I'm really impressed with Donovan. He is going to get this team right.

Basically, upcoming games against the Spurs, Clippers, Warriors, Blazers (yes, Blazers), Celtics (yes, Celtics) will definitely sharpen us up. We are the knife and they are the sharpeners. I've been saying it, we have been playing to our competition. Some teams are just like that. Some teams rise in big situations and come to play with more heart when they know a lot is on the line. OKC is one of those teams.

So...

Keep Calm
and
Thunder On

You done finally **** lost it

It takes balls to play the useless veterans over the rookie sensation? I'm convinced you're just trolling at this point. If not you'd be the delusional to the point that Presti must have brainwashed you himself.

[Old Man Game]

The front office has really messed this team up. KD & Russ are all time great players. That they can carry the rest of this roster more often than not speaks volumes.

[Old Man Game]

I'd agree, but the coach has shown he's not an NBA caliber coach, we have 3 players who aren't rotation caliber players (minimum) playing big minutes, the backup PG was benched so 1 of them gets his minutes, the defense is inconsistent, and honestly they're unmotivated at times. Its a second round out and Presti may be cocky enough to not do anything this offseason but keep Dion and try again. I just need time away.

Donovan is a NBA-caliber coach. I think that it's naive to write him off.

We didn't call a timeout because we were surprised that they didn't foul Durant. It took us off guard but we will learn from our mistakes. Donovan is a quick learner.

He is? Because he's certainly taken his time this season, and when he learned Singler sucks he unlearned it really quick.

And why would they foul KD in the backcourt when he had to advance it in 8 seconds? Apparently BD didn't know that rule. They had no reason to foul.

He's an awful coach, can't motivate, can't figure out rotations, and 3 of the worst players on the team play some of the most minutes

Agree. I hated the Donovan hire when it was first rumored. You look at the track record of college coaches making the jump to the pros and it's a wasteland for the most part. I just think it's a lot more complicated game in terms of the in game strategy and adjustments. So far Billy is making Scott Brooks look like Gregg Popovich in comparison.

[Pillendreher]

You are looking at our Finals match up. I'm not playing Payne in the Finals if I'm Donovan. Not enough experience. I'd rather stick with Foye, Singler, Dion and let them get more acclimated with their roles in OKC's rotation.

Lol what. Payne is clearly better than any of those guys. Teams will murder us in the 2nd and 4th quarter without Payne. Stop it with the unwarranted Payne bashing. That kid can play!

[Old Man Game]

You are looking at our Finals match up. I'm not playing Payne in the Finals if I'm Donovan. Not enough experience. I'd rather stick with Foye, Singler, Dion and let them get more acclimated with their roles in OKC's rotation.

Lol what. Payne is clearly better than any of those guys. Teams will murder us in the 2nd and 4th quarter without Payne. Stop it with the unwarranted Payne bashing. That kid can play!

Also, we probably aren't winning the title this year anyway. So why not get Payne more minutes? Could be valuable long term. Guys like Dion and Foye sure as heck aren't going to put this team over the top and aren't long term solutions.

[getrichordie]

You are looking at our Finals match up. I'm not playing Payne in the Finals if I'm Donovan. Not enough experience. I'd rather stick with Foye, Singler, Dion and let them get more acclimated with their roles in OKC's rotation.

Lol what. Payne is clearly better than any of those guys. Teams will murder us in the 2nd and 4th quarter without Payne. Stop it with the unwarranted Payne bashing. That kid can play!

Also, we probably aren't winning the title this year anyway. So why not get Payne more minutes? Could be valuable long term. Guys like Dion and Foye sure as heck aren't going to put this team over the top and aren't long term solutions.

That's not realistic. Of course we are going to give it our all to win the 'ship even if that means benching Payne because he is not favorable due to match-ups. You guys say that Payne is better than Singler, Dion, and Foye, and while he is more sensational and more offensively skilled, defensively there is no comparison to be made. He's small. Real small. GSW will take advantage of that all day.

The playoffs and Finals are all about match-ups. You guys really underrate Singler because he isn't flashy. Same with Foye and you haven't even given time to adjust. And we only lost by a 32-footer 3. You just have to give credit where it's due. Steph made a great shot. If Billy Donovan is so bad, and the rest of our roster is so bad, how come we lost by just 3? We are right there with GSW. We just have to make a few adjustments.

You guys are butthurt over losing to a HISTORICALLY GREAT team. Seriously? Your expectations are unreal.

Furthermore, name the last time a rookie made a huge impact in the playoffs. Heck, even the Finals.

[bondom34]

Lol what. Payne is clearly better than any of those guys. Teams will murder us in the 2nd and 4th quarter without Payne. Stop it with the unwarranted Payne bashing. That kid can play!

Also, we probably aren't winning the title this year anyway. So why not get Payne more minutes? Could be valuable long term. Guys like Dion and Foye sure as heck aren't going to put this team over the top and aren't long term solutions.

That's not realistic. Of course we are going to give it our all to win the 'ship even if that means benching Payne because he is not favorable due to match-ups. You guys say that Payne is better than Singler, Dion, and Foye, and while he is more sensational and more offensively skilled, defensively there is no comparison to be made. He's small. Real small. GSW will take advantage of that all day.

The playoffs and Finals are all about match-ups. You guys really underrate Singler because he isn't flashy. Same with Foye and you haven't even given time to adjust. And we only lost by a 32-footer 3. You just have to give credit where it's due. Steph made a great shot. If Billy Donovan is so bad, and the rest of our roster is so bad, how come we lost by just 3? We are right there with GSW. We just have to make a few adjustments.

You guys are butthurt over losing to a HISTORICALLY GREAT team. Seriously? Your expectations are unreal.

Furthermore, name the last time a rookie made a huge impact in the playoffs. Heck, even the Finals.

Payne's been better than Dion defensively. Foye too, and GSW just killed Singler.

And the fact that Dion or Singler is possibly playing in a finals game is much worse than Payne. Payne's just a better player, rookie or not.

And saying anything about losing to an all time great team shows its unlikely they win a title barring a GSW injury. Again, reason to play Payne.

Payne's better offensively, better defensively, younger, a better scorer and passer, and Dion isn't a rotation player on any other contender. So play him 30 minutes for what now? There's no reason. As long as he's playing this much, this team will go nowhere.