2018-2019 OKC Thunder Regular Season Pt 1: A Renewed Hope

[SecondTake]

In the link I posted, current as of today, the Schroeder plus starters is top 20 in net rating, minimum 200 minutes. #15 actually. That's really good overall.

15th out of 26 is 'really good'?

Well it's not really bad at least.

[slick_watts]

In the link I posted, current as of today, the Schroeder plus starters is top 20 in net rating, minimum 200 minutes. #15 actually. That's really good overall.

15th out of 26 is 'really good'?

Well it's not really bad at least.

uh, yes it is, when you consider the same players with a different teammate are among the best and 10pp100 better.

but lets be honest. HASG13 didn't bother to check how many lineups were in his list.

[hardenASG13]

In the link I posted, current as of today, the Schroeder plus starters is top 20 in net rating, minimum 200 minutes. #15 actually. That's really good overall.

15th out of 26 is 'really good'?

Yea , it's one of the most 26 used lineups league wide, and has a +4.7 net rating. How are you seeing that lineup as a bad thing?

[slick_watts]

In the link I posted, current as of today, the Schroeder plus starters is top 20 in net rating, minimum 200 minutes. #15 actually. That's really good overall.

15th out of 26 is 'really good'?

Yea , it's one of the most 26 used lineups league wide, and has a +4.7 net rating. How are you seeing that lineup as a bad thing?

i'll give you credit for the save attempt, but how about the fact that replacing schroder with ferguson improves the lineup by 10pp100?

just admit it. you were caught.

[Kizz Fastfists]

Yea , it's one of the most 26 used lineups league wide, and has a +4.7 net rating. How are you seeing that lineup as a bad thing?

Is your argument that Schroder is a worthless pile of overpaid crap compared to Ferguson? If so your lineup and I agree with you. If you are trying to say that Schroder is good because he can be carried by the starters then don't we have to acknowledge the greatness of Roberson who put up significantly better net ratings with the same players?

If your point is that Roberson and Ferguson are great and Schroder is significantly inferior you did prove that point. That is about the only thing you proved. Unless you are arguing that the lineup is getting too much playing time because Donovan is a terrible coach and he has better options. That is another argument you could probably win. If you want to argue Presti is paying $15M for the same production from Schroder that he got for the league minimum last year from Felton you can also win that argument.

[hardenASG13]

15th out of 26 is 'really good'?

Yea , it's one of the most 26 used lineups league wide, and has a +4.7 net rating. How are you seeing that lineup as a bad thing?

i'll give you credit for the save attempt, but how about the fact that replacing schroder with ferguson improves the lineup by 10pp100?

just admit it. you were caught.

Caught in what? I know the starters are one of the best groups in the league. Simply destroying your notion of Schroeder as a cancer who is killing the team, particularly when playing with the starters. It's a positive lineup! Both lineups are good, that's a good thing. What am I caught in?

[hardenASG13]

Yea , it's one of the most 26 used lineups league wide, and has a +4.7 net rating. How are you seeing that lineup as a bad thing?

Is your argument that Schroder is a worthless pile of overpaid crap compared to Ferguson? If so your lineup and I agree with you. If you are trying to say that Schroder is good because he can be carried by the starters then don't we have to acknowledge the greatness of Roberson wiho put up significantly better net ratings with the same players?

If your point is that Roberson and Ferguson are great and Schroder is significantly inferior you did prove that point. That is about the only thing you proved. Unless you are arguing that the lineup is getting too much playing time because Donovan is a terrible coach and he has better options. That is another argument you could probably win. If you want to argue Presti is paying $15M for the same production from Schroder that he got for the league minimum last year from Felton you can also win that argument.

My point is that the starters with Schroeder is a positive lineup. He's an important piece to one of the best teams in the league, and the best player on their bench. The hate on here is baseless for the most part.

[slick_watts]

Yea , it's one of the most 26 used lineups league wide, and has a +4.7 net rating. How are you seeing that lineup as a bad thing?

i'll give you credit for the save attempt, but how about the fact that replacing schroder with ferguson improves the lineup by 10pp100?

just admit it. you were caught.

Caught in what? I know the starters are one of the best groups in the league. Simply destroying your notion of Schroeder as a cancer who is killing the team, particularly when playing with the starters. It's a positive lineup! Both lineups are good, that's a good thing. What am I caught in?

[SecondTake]

OK, lets at least avoid the Schroeder - Felton comparisons. It's obvious that Schroder is 10 times the player Felton is, regardless how bad you might think Schroder is. Felton is a small, out of shape dude that can't dribble, shoot or pass. His net rating would be a negative 1 million if he was playing.

Schroeder has been pretty bad, but not Felton bad. At least he's capable of good nights. Felton isn't.

[Pillendreher]

Something that (at least somewhat) speaks to the negative effect that Schröder has had on this team lately: He has by far the best Off-Court NetRtG out of any Thunder since the Portland game:



This team has been at it's best with him on the bench. Normally you'd think that title would go to Nader, Patterson or Diallo because they have been on the floor when teams destroyed us, but nope, it's Schröder. And I think the biggest reason for that is because he has been tanking our starters defense lately. Westbrook-George-Adams (they have played Patterson minutes with those 3, so I'm not just looking at Grant) has allowed 102.5 pp100p with Schröder on the bench and 133.9 with him on the floor over their last 7. So while the bench has been absolutely horrible, the starters now go to shambles with him in there as well.

The only other bench player who has played at least a couple of minutes next to those 3 guys during this stretch is Patterson: +4.5 with him OFF, +53.5 with him ON ( ; just an 11 minute smaple).

[SecondTake]

Problem is that they still play that stupid high PNR defense with Schroder that they play with the other starters to. How is it a a good idea to have barely 6 foot Schroder trap the pick with Adams? The team doesn't seem to have any flexibility to adapt the guys on the floor. They're also not doing a good job of hiding them, instead they allow every switch to be made. Team should do a better job adjusting their defensive scheme with him on the floor so that they can maximize his offense and minimize the defensive damage.

[Pillendreher]

OK, lets at least avoid the Schroeder - Felton comparisons. It's obvious that Schroder is 10 times the player Felton is, regardless how bad you might think Schroder is. Felton is a small, out of shape dude that can't dribble, shoot or pass. His net rating would be a negative 1 million if he was playing.

Schroeder has been pretty bad, but not Felton bad. At least he's capable of good nights. Felton isn't.

He's a better player than Felton in a vacuum, but as the guy running backup point for us, the numbers might unsettle you. Last season, the team had a -8.5 NetRtG with Felton being the PG with the bench and Westbrook being on the bench (I just looked at Felton-Patterson-Grant and Russ OFF: 644 minutes). This season it's -11.7 NetRtG (Schröder-Patterson-Noel and Russ OFF: 220 minutes). And hell, Felton was averaging more assists than Schröder (9.92 vs 9.87 per 100 possessions) while being more efficient than him as well (48.42 TS% vs 48.04 TS%).

At some point you just have to take into account what Felton was making and what Schröder is. If he is getting outperformed by a guy like Felton, then something is very wrong.

And a final thought: If your justification for a guy is that he "is capapble of good nights", then you're looking at a bad player by definition. Every fool in this league is capable of good nights if you just give him enough shooting opportunities.

[SecondTake]

OK, lets at least avoid the Schroeder - Felton comparisons. It's obvious that Schroder is 10 times the player Felton is, regardless how bad you might think Schroder is. Felton is a small, out of shape dude that can't dribble, shoot or pass. His net rating would be a negative 1 million if he was playing.

Schroeder has been pretty bad, but not Felton bad. At least he's capable of good nights. Felton isn't.

He's a better player than Felton in a vacuum, but as the guy running backup point for us, the numbers might unsettle you. Last season, the team had a -8.5 NetRtG with Felton being the PG with the bench and Westbrook being on the bench (I just looked at Felton-Patterson-Grant and Russ OFF: 644 minutes). This season it's -11.7 NetRtG (Schröder-Patterson-Noel and Russ OFF: 220 minutes). And hell, Felton was averaging more assists than Schröder (9.92 vs 9.87 per 100 possessions) while being more efficient than him as well (48.42 TS% vs 48.04 TS%).

At some point you just have to take into account what Felton was making and what Schröder is. If he is getting outperformed by a guy like Felton, then something is very wrong.

And a final thought: If your justification for a guy is that he "is capapble of good nights", then you're looking at a bad player by definition. Every fool in this league is capable of good nights if you just give him enough shooting opportunities.

But felton was working with a much better bench. He was playing with Tferg, Grant, guys that are now starters in the best starting unit in the NBA. Patterson was better, Abrines was still playing. Schroder has a lot less to work with, an Felton already didn't have much to begin with.

[Pillendreher]

But felton was working with a much better bench. He was playing with Tferg, Grant, guys that are now starters in the best starting unit in the NBA. Patterson was better, Abrines was still playing. Schroder has a lot less to work with, an Felton already didn't have much to begin with.

I'd say that's up for debate. They have had some guys struggling, sure, but it's still not like he's just playing with a bunch of random G-League pickups on a team gunning for a top pick. Furthermore, this is why they traded for him: If he can't do what he's getting paid for, then what's his use to this team? To score 20+ points once a month? He's supposed to be "the offense" for the bench. He's supposed to be (vastly) better than his counterpart. When are we going to see that?

[slick_watts]

OK, lets at least avoid the Schroeder - Felton comparisons. It's obvious that Schroder is 10 times the player Felton is, regardless how bad you might think Schroder is. Felton is a small, out of shape dude that can't dribble, shoot or pass. His net rating would be a negative 1 million if he was playing.

Schroeder has been pretty bad, but not Felton bad. At least he's capable of good nights. Felton isn't.

He's a better player than Felton in a vacuum, but as the guy running backup point for us, the numbers might unsettle you. Last season, the team had a -8.5 NetRtG with Felton being the PG with the bench and Westbrook being on the bench (I just looked at Felton-Patterson-Grant and Russ OFF: 644 minutes). This season it's -11.7 NetRtG (Schröder-Patterson-Noel and Russ OFF: 220 minutes). And hell, Felton was averaging more assists than Schröder (9.92 vs 9.87 per 100 possessions) while being more efficient than him as well (48.42 TS% vs 48.04 TS%).

At some point you just have to take into account what Felton was making and what Schröder is. If he is getting outperformed by a guy like Felton, then something is very wrong.

And a final thought: If your justification for a guy is that he "is capapble of good nights", then you're looking at a bad player by definition. Every fool in this league is capable of good nights if you just give him enough shooting opportunities.

But felton was working with a much better bench. He was playing with Tferg, Grant, guys that are now starters in the best starting unit in the NBA. Patterson was better, Abrines was still playing. Schroder has a lot less to work with, an Felton already didn't have much to begin with.

our starters have done well but they are not the best starters in the nba.

[RalphSampsonJr]

Problem is that they still play that stupid high PNR defense with Schroder that they play with the other starters to. How is it a a good idea to have barely 6 foot Schroder trap the pick with Adams? The team doesn't seem to have any flexibility to adapt the guys on the floor. They're also not doing a good job of hiding them, instead they allow every switch to be made. Team should do a better job adjusting their defensive scheme with him on the floor so that they can maximize his offense and minimize the defensive damage.

Not only does trapping not make sense with a very small pg but it doesnt work if Dennis is trailing the play as much as he does.

Dude gets stopped far too easy on screens. You mix that with Adams coming up too far for the trap and its an easy two on one, suck Adams in, then dump off to the big for probably the most desired shot an opponent could want.

Dennis needs to watch 3Ferg. His ability to dodge or slip inbetween picks is awesome.

[wco81]

look at what the sycophants have created. the fans who told westbrook he can 'do what he wants'. 'he's our point guard'. the thunder who gave him the key to the city for signing a maximum contract only the thunder could give him. what impetus was there to ever change?

What a bunch of crap. Like Russell Westbrook was a choir boy until 2016 and then when the fanbase started to rally behind him, he turned into a comic book like villain.

Doesn't it ever bore you regurgitate this stuff constantly? Imagine being this delusional, thinking that fans can influence players like that. But alas, you can't help yourself.

fans, teams, media can and do influence players all the time. these are human beings, the entire point is that they are not super heroes. the response to kd leaving and westbrook staying, and the entire 2016-17 season set the table.

Seemed like nobody here wanted to hear any criticism of Westbrook’s game that year.

Nothing about usage rate, nothing about shot selection.

Loyalty to franchise, because he would soon be due for an extension, trumped everything.

[SecondTake]

What a bunch of crap. Like Russell Westbrook was a choir boy until 2016 and then when the fanbase started to rally behind him, he turned into a comic book like villain.

Doesn't it ever bore you regurgitate this stuff constantly? Imagine being this delusional, thinking that fans can influence players like that. But alas, you can't help yourself.

fans, teams, media can and do influence players all the time. these are human beings, the entire point is that they are not super heroes. the response to kd leaving and westbrook staying, and the entire 2016-17 season set the table.

Seemed like nobody here wanted to hear any criticism of Westbrook’s game that year.

Nothing about usage rate, nothing about shot selection.

Loyalty to franchise, because he would soon be due for an extension, trumped everything.

WB is present in virtually all our best lineups this years. So why are we talking about WB again? We're losing games because of our bench, not WB.

[spearsy23]

fans, teams, media can and do influence players all the time. these are human beings, the entire point is that they are not super heroes. the response to kd leaving and westbrook staying, and the entire 2016-17 season set the table.

Seemed like nobody here wanted to hear any criticism of Westbrook’s game that year.

Nothing about usage rate, nothing about shot selection.

Loyalty to franchise, because he would soon be due for an extension, trumped everything.

WB is present in virtually all our best lineups this years. So why are we talking about WB again? We're losing games because of our bench, not WB.

Because Westbrook makes a lot of money or something

[Dadouv47]

What a bunch of crap. Like Russell Westbrook was a choir boy until 2016 and then when the fanbase started to rally behind him, he turned into a comic book like villain.

Doesn't it ever bore you regurgitate this stuff constantly? Imagine being this delusional, thinking that fans can influence players like that. But alas, you can't help yourself.

fans, teams, media can and do influence players all the time. these are human beings, the entire point is that they are not super heroes. the response to kd leaving and westbrook staying, and the entire 2016-17 season set the table.

Seemed like nobody here wanted to hear any criticism of Westbrook’s game that year.

Nothing about usage rate, nothing about shot selection.

Loyalty to franchise, because he would soon be due for an extension, trumped everything.

I think if you read our games threads, you will see A LOT of Westbrook criticism (like in 90% of our games this season)