2021-22 OKC Thunder Regular Season Discussion

[ThunderBolt]

Depressing season right now. Dort is the only really good thing so far (well and Giddey being worth a 6th pick in the draft)

Tanking was always going to suck. Despite advocating for it, I knew this would be part of it. The part that frustrates me is we basically wasted a season and a half to start tanking after we traded Russ and George. Presti delayed the rebuild too long, in my opinion.

[bondom34]

Depressing season right now. Dort is the only really good thing so far (well and Giddey being worth a 6th pick in the draft)

Tanking was always going to suck. Despite advocating for it, I knew this would be part of it. The part that frustrates me is we basically wasted a season and a half to start tanking after we traded Russ and George. Presti delayed the rebuild too long, in my opinion.

Pretty much where I'm at. Looking back they couldn't have traded CP as easily but wanted that year to be a tank season and get it started sooner. This wasn't ever going to be easy, and they've shown enough flashes from guys who might be part of a longer term future at least to keep me more interested than I have been in a while.

This year and probably at least next won't be about wins and losses but whatever flashes happen along the way. Part of the whole thing is it will be rough, and unlikely to succeed but the "best" of a bunch of bad options.

[Dadouv47]

Kind of frustrated about the players we drafted since the PG13 and Westbrook trade. I think It's unlikely that another player than Giddey will a good NBA player in 3-4 years (between Bazley,Poku, Maledon, Mann, JRE and Wiggins).

[bondom34]

Won't write off the rookies yet (edit: and have kinda liked some stuff from JRE/Mann as future role players at least, its super early in their careers), and even Giddey hit a rough patch (saying that, hes super young and performing better than expected in general I'd say given the flashes of passing and defense), but yeah pretty much out on Poku barring a huge shift and out on Baze too (IDK if they could find a trade for a change of scenery, would be intrigued by Bagley maybe if they could even though I'm low on him too).

Saying that, its gonna be a long few years with not many wins. Seems SGA is bought in and hope it continues and they can just grow. Dort has really impressed me this season to a point I'd not expected. And unrelated to this but related to the roster lol, by this:

https://nbacourtoptix.nba.com/en

SGA is seeing the most double teams per game in the NBA.

Edit again: And ultimately t's gonna be a long process, but at this point I'm just along for the ride and not stressing too much, we've all done that when they were competing for years . Its so darn early in this thing, I'm pretty much just going with the flow at this point. Enjoy some other teams around the league for competition and stress now .

[Dadouv47]

Won't write off the rookies yet (edit: and have kinda liked some stuff from JRE/Mann as future role players at least, its super early in their careers), and even Giddey hit a rough patch (saying that, hes super young and performing better than expected in general I'd say given the flashes of passing and defense), but yeah pretty much out on Poku barring a huge shift and out on Baze too (IDK if they could find a trade for a change of scenery, would be intrigued by Bagley maybe if they could even though I'm low on him too).

Saying that, its gonna be a long few years with not many wins. Seems SGA is bought in and hope it continues and they can just grow. Dort has really impressed me this season to a point I'd not expected. And unrelated to this but related to the roster lol, by this:

https://nbacourtoptix.nba.com/en

SGA is seeing the most double teams per game in the NBA.

Edit again: And ultimately t's gonna be a long process, but at this point I'm just along for the ride and not stressing too much, we've all done that when they were competing for years . Its so darn early in this thing, I'm pretty much just going with the flow at this point. Enjoy some other teams around the league for competition and stress now .

yeah we can't talk about SGA without mentioning this. He could play better but teams focusing on him is clearly a big factor.

I'm not down on our other rookies as well. Mann is really skilled and a good shooter but a terrible defender. He needs a ton of improvements but he can develop into a very good player. JRE's ceiling his limited but you can use a back up big like him. Giddey was a legit #6 pick in a 5 players draft, no issues about that.
That bein gsaid, we had 6 FRPs and a ton of second round picks in the last 3 seasons and think we could have done better and be more aggressive on draft night though (yeah I'm still pissed we didn't draft Sengun )

[Old Man Game]

Really interested to watch Tre Mann these next couple years. Could see a huge range of possible outcomes. The offensive skill is undeniable but the decision making and defense are horrendous. Could see him ending up anywhere from perennial all star to the Chinese basketball association.

[Old Man Game]

Won't write off the rookies yet (edit: and have kinda liked some stuff from JRE/Mann as future role players at least, its super early in their careers), and even Giddey hit a rough patch (saying that, hes super young and performing better than expected in general I'd say given the flashes of passing and defense), but yeah pretty much out on Poku barring a huge shift and out on Baze too (IDK if they could find a trade for a change of scenery, would be intrigued by Bagley maybe if they could even though I'm low on him too).

I worry they haven't really drafted with any sort of actual vision of how they want to play. Are we a physical team? Are we a skill team? Right now we're just a give good effort team so they're in some games but the skill level is so low they can't get by on effort alone.

[slick_watts]

they got the 2nd worst result in the lottery. they weren't planning for that. josh giddey wasn't who they wanted. they thought they were going to get cade / mobley / barnes, etc. you play the hand you are dealt of course and sam presti will make it appear that giddey was always their guy and whatnot but i doubt the draft result aligns with the thunder's strategic plan. they just took who they thought was bpa.

[Old Man Game]

they got the 2nd worst result in the lottery. they weren't planning for that. josh giddey wasn't who they wanted. they thought they were going to get cade / mobley / barnes, etc. you play the hand you are dealt of course and sam presti will make it appear that giddey was always their guy and whatnot but i doubt the draft result aligns with the thunder's strategic plan. they just took who they thought was bpa.

I'm still mad about not taking Sengun.

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[Old Man Game]

I am intrigued by removing Bazley from the starting lineup. Could be an addition by subtraction deal. Wiggins isn't even good but at least he'll move it.

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[bondom34]

Won't write off the rookies yet (edit: and have kinda liked some stuff from JRE/Mann as future role players at least, its super early in their careers), and even Giddey hit a rough patch (saying that, hes super young and performing better than expected in general I'd say given the flashes of passing and defense), but yeah pretty much out on Poku barring a huge shift and out on Baze too (IDK if they could find a trade for a change of scenery, would be intrigued by Bagley maybe if they could even though I'm low on him too).

I worry they haven't really drafted with any sort of actual vision of how they want to play. Are we a physical team? Are we a skill team? Right now we're just a give good effort team so they're in some games but the skill level is so low they can't get by on effort alone.

All I'd say is nothing to worry about IMO, like stated a few days ago, this year and next are just about seeing flashes along the way and figuring stuff out. Just going along for the ride mostly and see where this thing ends up, not a ton to get bothered by with them and just enjoy the ride for a few years after a few stressful ones when they were contending lol.

Right now its a bunch of young guys, and even in the past they weren't a "type" of team, they were just more talented. I'm not sure teams have a "type" per se at the moment, even good ones I don't think necessarily, GSW is a bunch of everything, Utah is too, Phoenix, Brooklyn, Philly, they just all have good players and are built around having one or more top end star.

Though beyond BPA they do seem to draft more skill guys than the past (Giddey, Mann, even Poku in theory, JRE, etc). But they're mostly looking for good players, they're bad because they just started a rebuild (and tbh they're still in general not awful, with the exception of a handful of games). Hope they keep playing well, they've shown some flashes as a team despite being so young.

[Old Man Game]

Won't write off the rookies yet (edit: and have kinda liked some stuff from JRE/Mann as future role players at least, its super early in their careers), and even Giddey hit a rough patch (saying that, hes super young and performing better than expected in general I'd say given the flashes of passing and defense), but yeah pretty much out on Poku barring a huge shift and out on Baze too (IDK if they could find a trade for a change of scenery, would be intrigued by Bagley maybe if they could even though I'm low on him too).

I worry they haven't really drafted with any sort of actual vision of how they want to play. Are we a physical team? Are we a skill team? Right now we're just a give good effort team so they're in some games but the skill level is so low they can't get by on effort alone.

All I'd say is nothing to worry about IMO, like stated a few days ago, this year and next are just about seeing flashes along the way and figuring stuff out. Just going along for the ride mostly and see where this thing ends up, not a ton to get bothered by with them and just enjoy the ride for a few years after a few stressful ones when they were contending lol.

Right now its a bunch of young guys, and even in the past they weren't a "type" of team, they were just more talented. I'm not sure teams have a "type" per se at the moment, even good ones I don't think necessarily, GSW is a bunch of everything, Utah is too, Phoenix, Brooklyn, Philly, they just all have good players and are built around having one or more top end star.

Though beyond BPA they do seem to draft more skill guys than the past (Giddey, Mann, even Poku in theory, JRE, etc). But they're mostly looking for good players, they're bad because they just started a rebuild (and tbh they're still in general not awful, with the exception of a handful of games). Hope they keep playing well, they've shown some flashes as a team despite being so young.

I think teams do have a type. The Grit and Grind Grizz versus the 7 seconds or less Suns to illustrate. The ball movement warriors. The past thunder with a bunch of guys built around minimizing Russ' weakenesses (ever wonder why Presti insisted on having a defensive minded 2 next to Westbrook?). Etc. Brian Scalabrine on NBA Radio talks about this concept of team type a lot too. I've been listening to a lot of NBA radio recently and one takeaway is I think NBA insider types think about concepts like this a lot more than the typical fan does.

[bondom34]

I worry they haven't really drafted with any sort of actual vision of how they want to play. Are we a physical team? Are we a skill team? Right now we're just a give good effort team so they're in some games but the skill level is so low they can't get by on effort alone.

All I'd say is nothing to worry about IMO, like stated a few days ago, this year and next are just about seeing flashes along the way and figuring stuff out. Just going along for the ride mostly and see where this thing ends up, not a ton to get bothered by with them and just enjoy the ride for a few years after a few stressful ones when they were contending lol.

Right now its a bunch of young guys, and even in the past they weren't a "type" of team, they were just more talented. I'm not sure teams have a "type" per se at the moment, even good ones I don't think necessarily, GSW is a bunch of everything, Utah is too, Phoenix, Brooklyn, Philly, they just all have good players and are built around having one or more top end star.

Though beyond BPA they do seem to draft more skill guys than the past (Giddey, Mann, even Poku in theory, JRE, etc). But they're mostly looking for good players, they're bad because they just started a rebuild (and tbh they're still in general not awful, with the exception of a handful of games). Hope they keep playing well, they've shown some flashes as a team despite being so young.

I think teams do have a type. The Grit and Grind Grizz versus the 7 seconds or less Suns to illustrate. The ball movement warriors. The past thunder with a bunch of guys built around minimizing Russ' weakenesses (ever wonder why Presti insisted on having a defensive minded 2 next to Westbrook?). Etc. Brian Scalabrine on NBA Radio talks about this concept of team type a lot too. I've been listening to a lot of NBA radio recently and one takeaway is I think NBA insider types think about concepts like this a lot more than the typical fan does.

Edited after I got off mobile:

Those OKC teams weren't good because they were a type of team, I couldn't even define it, they were basically a few really good players with others fit in later. And having a strong wing defender is more a team build thing done after you have stars, not an identity. Think if you asked around what those teams identities were it was "we have a few really awesome players so we win". Teams having that sort of persona is more the exception than the norm I'd say. Even looking around at other rebuilding teams right now, I honestly couldn't give anyone an identity really (Detroit, Orlando, Houston, heck NOLA is just Zion/Ingram and guys). But looking at some top teams:

PHX: No idea, they were bad and got Chris Paul.
Brooklyn: Same, then they got a bunch of stars.
Milwaukee: Same, but they have Giannis
Denver: Jokic is awesome, then guys who make sense with him
GSW: Nothing they do works w/o Steph and Draymond.
Even current Memphis: They changed almost entirely on the fly without Morant, because like the others they just have talent.

etc.

Now fitting into a system sure, but all the guys they've taken seem to do that, they can all dribble, pass, and they hope to get improvement in shooting. Everyone they've been linked to seemed to have that in common I think.

But ultimately it's adding talent, then fitting in what else they need, not having a "type". I couldn't tell you what type of team Brooklyn or Milwaukee are today tbh, but they have really good players so they win a lot.

Said it before, but the next few years are just sort of riding it out and seeing what comes of things. At least to me, just enjoy the ride after worrying about every game for 5 years. Also IMO they're more defined now than the past, then it seemed like they took swings on athletes and hoped they'd develop skill, now it seems the opposite. Also Scal isn't really a front office guy, IDK how much weight I'd put into a take on team building there (though I do like what I've heard from him on podcasts). Teams with good players win, and build their team around them, which is something I think I do like about Giddey with SGA.

Edit again: Also some teams seem to have an archetype of player they gravitate toward (I'd say this used to be OKC w/ lengthy/athletic wings for example) but don't know if that's an identity either. Think in general that was more what I'd heard people associate w/ those past teams in terms of their player type they leaned with but again that was more toward the draft, they seem to not go that way anymore so much.

[slick_watts]

i think it's kinda important to think about how role players fit into your team dynamic but less important to think about how your top end stars do. usually if you have the talent that takes care of itself, unless there's an obvious outlier you have to deal with (like, say, ben simmons shooting).

i recall clearly a lot of media talking heads begrudging the thunder's "jump shooting team" status during the early years, or bemoaning how three scorers would share the ball (harden, durant, westbrook). it was all nonsensical.

[Devilanche]

I think it’s more about getting star players to build around first and then fill up the rotation with contributors . Archetype matters a bit as rotational players tends to have similar ceiling so it’s a matter of a club preferring one type and then willing to commit / giving that player minutes to improve his strength and become more NBA rotational worthy so to speak.

Ie I consider a draft from late first to 2nd rounder to have very similar upside ie. most of them will only get one MLE salary if at all on that scale.

[bondom34]

Yep, would agree with both of those statements generally (sort of was getting at that in a very longwinded way lol). Think you can find guys deeper in the draft, but overall its just getting talent and then fitting around it.

[Devilanche]

There’s definitely an archetype we draft . Used to be good person , plus wing span ,athletic and can’t shoot . Not sure what it is now

[slick_watts]

we are drafting people sam presti thinks are less likely to leave oklahoma.

[Mr Thunder Nick]

I am intrigued by removing Bazley from the starting lineup. Could be an addition by subtraction deal. Wiggins isn't even good but at least he'll move it.

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It was time to bench Baze. His game makes me crazy. Like a star and some seconds later like a kid in the schoolyard. No consistently. So does Poku.

The best team on the field like against the Grizzlies in clutch time today is:

Shai / Giddey / Dort / Williams and Muscala.

But my doubts are about the coach. I doesn't feel lot of development along the young players like Bazley, Poku, Jerome , Maledon, Roby.
The only player who has become a very good player under MD is Lu Dort. Hopefully he will not brake J.Giddey in the future.

[Dadouv47]

I am intrigued by removing Bazley from the starting lineup. Could be an addition by subtraction deal. Wiggins isn't even good but at least he'll move it.

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It was time to bench Baze. His game makes me crazy. Like a star and some seconds later like a kid in the schoolyard. No consistently. So does Poku.

The best team on the field like against the Grizzlies in clutch time today is:

Shai / Giddey / Dort / Williams and Muscala.

But my doubts are about the coach. I doesn't feel lot of development along the young players like Bazley, Poku, Jerome , Maledon, Roby.
The only player who has become a very good player under MD is Lu Dort. Hopefully he will not brake J.Giddey in the future.

Tough to blame Coach D right now. We just lack talent.

Bazley is lazy on defense and that's why he's finally on the bench. I doubt Roby has a future in the NBA...he's a nice kid but lacks talent. Poku is still very young and I don't like the odds of him becoming that good. No clue what happened with Maledon though after a good rookie season.