OKC Thunder 2023-24 Regular Season Discussion

[Dadouv47]

I changed my mind and I know most will disagree but I would pull the trigger on a Giddey, Dieng + picks for KD. I just want OKC to win a title and SGA gonna be the best player on our team anyway if KD returns. He acted like a piece of **** when he walked and after that on Twitter but whatever...he probably knows he messed up and winning a title with Shai/JDub/Chet is so much more important.

Don't think Presti would pull that trigger anyway since he knows a big part of the fanbase wouldn't want him back.

[cjmcallist]

So, what would you do in regard to Joe, Wiggins, and Giddey ?

Isaiah Joe - TO @ $2.1M, or Ext. Eligible
- Decline TO, Extend and guarantee (3/$22M - team option year 3)

Aaron Wiggins - TO @ $1.9M, or Ext. Eligible
- Decline TO, Extend and guarantee (4/$35M - team option year 4)

Josh Giddey - Ext. Eligible
- Pick up option, and not extend (24-25 contract @ $8.3M, Giddey goes to RFA in Summer of 2025)

I think this is a valuable way to see what the league values Giddey at and actually let a player potentially reach RFA. It still gives OKC leeway in trading him before the Trade Deadline next season, and the receiving team may match the resulting RFA contract.

I would try to get over the cap this offseason. With the new media rights deal, the cap is only going to go up and we can predict with more accuracy where it's going. Getting over the cap and staying under the tax could make this team long term affordable.

Doesn't Joe have to be extended with cap space? If so, I'd only extend him after striking out on my trade options. Otherwise I'd wait until we have bird rights next year.

Wiggins - I wouldn't do more than $7m per year.

Giddey - if he agrees to a team friendly deal, I'd extend him. If he's not traded this offseason I would take him into RFA next year.

[cjmcallist]

This is most likely what I believe happened. Or, something like this. Though, I also believe that Presti would have offered the Hayward package for Olynyk. Either way, I believe he 'tried'.

Of course he could have beaten any offer, but I feel fine about him not doing it. Prices were too high IMO. After all, the same GM that traded for Olynyk just gave up the #8 pick for Poeltl.

I think this upcoming year I will feel differently. The team was a year ahead of my expectations but I'm caught up now.

The fact that you are arguing that it was a good idea not to trade the 26th pick for Olynyk, who was traded for #29, but giving it away for a pick swap that might not even happen was better is confusing. Care to explain why you think the price for Olynyk was too high to pay, but paying the same price for something that might not convey was a better decision?

I think about picks in two different ways, they're either a lottery ticket for the top talent entering the league, or currency for transactions.

Obviously currency = volume, but lottery tickets are improved through odds. I feel like he turned the 26 pick into a higher odds lottery ticket in 2028. Is that actually better than having Olynyk for a year? \("/)/ I don't know yet, but I think so.

[cjmcallist]

I changed my mind and I know most will disagree but I would pull the trigger on a Giddey, Dieng + picks for KD. I just want OKC to win a title and SGA gonna be the best player on our team anyway if KD returns. He acted like a piece of **** when he walked and after that on Twitter but whatever...he probably knows he messed up and winning a title with Shai/JDub/Chet is so much more important.

Don't think Presti would pull that trigger anyway since he knows a big part of the fanbase wouldn't want him back.

Man I hope not. But...

My sister just texted me with "KD back to OKC" this week. Apparently her carpet cleaner in TN is a Thunder fan. He used to work for the company that cleaned at KD's house. The same company still works for KD, and was just there cleaning his house. While they were there, they overheard KD talking to someone about going back to OKC.

I trust my sister, but not sure that information can be considered valid. However, this + Schlect talking about it makes me think something's in the ether. If this happens I'm giving up my OKC fandom - at least until he leaves.

[Dadouv47]

I changed my mind and I know most will disagree but I would pull the trigger on a Giddey, Dieng + picks for KD. I just want OKC to win a title and SGA gonna be the best player on our team anyway if KD returns. He acted like a piece of **** when he walked and after that on Twitter but whatever...he probably knows he messed up and winning a title with Shai/JDub/Chet is so much more important.

Don't think Presti would pull that trigger anyway since he knows a big part of the fanbase wouldn't want him back.

Man I hope not. But...

My sister just texted me with "KD back to OKC" this week. Apparently her carpet cleaner in TN is a Thunder fan. He used to work for the company that cleaned at KD's house. The same company still works for KD, and was just there cleaning his house. While they were there, they overheard KD talking to someone about going back to OKC.

I trust my sister, but not sure that information can be considered valid. However, this + Schlect talking about it makes me think something's in the ether. If this happens I'm giving up my OKC fandom - at least until he leaves.

what Schlecht said? because a couple of months ago he didn't want KD back AT ALL.

Pretty sure KD mentioned that possibility because it's kind of obvious but still think the odds of it happening are slim. Suns owner need to accept, he wants to come back and OKC needs to more assets than any other team and that's not easy without including SGA/Chet/JDub and Cason to me that should be untouchable not because he's elite but because he's way more valuable to us than to any other team

[Dadouv47]

I'm also more inclined about a KD come back because we just lost in the POs...I was totally against it a week ago. I will probably change my mind once again pretty soon.

He's the star that would fit the best in our team and it's not close...second one would be AD but he's not available yet.

I would still rather get a Mikal Bridges type of player but the trade market is gonna be tough for star players and the only ones that might be available are terrible fits to us (Trae Young/Donovan Mitchell).

[Devilanche]

I changed my mind and I know most will disagree but I would pull the trigger on a Giddey, Dieng + picks for KD. I just want OKC to win a title and SGA gonna be the best player on our team anyway if KD returns. He acted like a piece of **** when he walked and after that on Twitter but whatever...he probably knows he messed up and winning a title with Shai/JDub/Chet is so much more important.

Don't think Presti would pull that trigger anyway since he knows a big part of the fanbase wouldn't want him back.

If it happens it happens but I’m not calling for him to come.

[ThunderBolt]

The idea of Durant coming back and being the cherry on top of the roster that provides the little bit of extra that Shai, Chet and Jalen is intriguing but seems a bit naive. It's much more likely that Durant views a reunion as an opportunity for him to be the hero rather than acessory piece. I think it's much more likely if Durant returns he becomes discontent with his role in the offense and begins blaming others for any lack of success. KD has told us who he is and I believe him.

[Dadouv47]

The idea of Durant coming back and being the cherry on top of the roster that provides the little bit of extra that Shai, Chet and Jalen is intriguing but seems a bit naive. It's much more likely that Durant views a reunion as an opportunity for him to be the hero rather than acessory piece. I think it's much more likely if Durant returns he becomes discontent with his role in the offense and begins blaming others for any lack of success. KD has told us who he is and I believe him.

You are right. That being said, I care more about our current players than I hate Durant so that's why I'm starting to change my mind about it even if I wouldn't celebrate it. KD is a moron but he's a basketball addict like Shai, JDub and Chet and I think he's pretty close to Chet. I think he would help us win a title but also help Chet and JDub off the court. Injury aside I don't see how it can't work.

[Kizz Fastfists]

You are right. That being said, I care more about our current players than I hate Durant so that's why I'm starting to change my mind about it even if I wouldn't celebrate it. KD is a moron but he's a basketball addict like Shai, JDub and Chet and I think he's pretty close to Chet. I think he would help us win a title but also help Chet and JDub off the court. Injury aside I don't see how it can't work.

KD replacing Giddey in the starting lineup would most likely lead to a championship. There are other players that could be added to the roster that could accomplish this, but if you are talking about a single player that would push OKC over the top to almost a guaranteed championship level he is one of the few. I don't expect Phoenix would trade him and if they did it would be for piece to win now and OKC doesn't have those to give up. A package of Giddey, Kenrich, Jaylin and Cason isn't going to inspire Phoenix to move KD. It would require a 3rd team and I'm guessing that OKC would be better off, long-term, taking the star player being moved from the 3rd team over KD.

If OKC comes up short the next two seasons I could see KD wanting to return to OKC as a FA to be the missing piece and get OKC a championship. He would view it as good for his legacy just as LeBron returning to Cleveland after his time in Miami was something done for his legacy. I don't have an issue with a KD return, but I see it as unlikely as Phoenix is trying to build a contender around Booker, Beal and KD and while I don't think that is likely to happen I also don't see them giving up on that after one season.

[Dadouv47]

Read on Twitter

Presti asked Woj to tell that the Giddey case is over

[Kizz Fastfists]

Presti asked Woj to tell that the Giddey case is over

I'm going to say Giddey and Utah's 2025 FRP to Utah for #10. Utah has the shooting to surround Giddey with and they need a PG that can distribute. OKC takes Cody Williams at #10 and Knecht at #12 and Presti manages to anger pretty much everyone.

Bonus prediction: Miami takes Edey at #15 and Bam and Edey become a better twin tower combo than KAT and Gobert and Miami gets a championship in 2027.

[ThunderBolt]

The idea of Durant coming back and being the cherry on top of the roster that provides the little bit of extra that Shai, Chet and Jalen is intriguing but seems a bit naive. It's much more likely that Durant views a reunion as an opportunity for him to be the hero rather than acessory piece. I think it's much more likely if Durant returns he becomes discontent with his role in the offense and begins blaming others for any lack of success. KD has told us who he is and I believe him.

You are right. That being said, I care more about our current players than I hate Durant so that's why I'm starting to change my mind about it even if I wouldn't celebrate it. KD is a moron but he's a basketball addict like Shai, JDub and Chet and I think he's pretty close to Chet. I think he would help us win a title but also help Chet and JDub off the court. Injury aside I don't see how it can't work.

I don't trust KD to help Chet and JDub off the court in anyway that's beneficial to OKC.

[cjmcallist]

Presti asked Woj to tell that the Giddey case is over

I'm going to say Giddey and Utah's 2025 FRP to Utah for #10. Utah has the shooting to surround Giddey with and they need a PG that can distribute. OKC takes Cody Williams at #10 and Knecht at #12 and Presti manages to anger pretty much everyone.

Dang. That seems right up our alley and I would be pissed.

[Dadouv47]

Presti asked Woj to tell that the Giddey case is over

I'm going to say Giddey and Utah's 2025 FRP to Utah for #10. Utah has the shooting to surround Giddey with and they need a PG that can distribute. OKC takes Cody Williams at #10 and Knecht at #12 and Presti manages to anger pretty much everyone.

Bonus prediction: Miami takes Edey at #15 and Bam and Edey become a better twin tower combo than KAT and Gobert and Miami gets a championship in 2027.

yeah Giddey is a great fit in Utah if they don't plan to have Kessler as their starting center of the future

[Kizz Fastfists]

Obviously currency = volume, but lottery tickets are improved through odds. I feel like he turned the 26 pick into a higher odds lottery ticket in 2028. Is that actually better than having Olynyk for a year? \("/)/ I don't know yet, but I think so.

Where do your project a team led by Luka in his prime to be picking? It could be the last pick in the first round and OKC gave away their pick, it isn't likely to be a lottery pick. Was it worth giving away a lottery ticket, a draft pick this year, to maybe move up a few spots in a few years? No, you did not add an additional lottery ticket. Is there a non-zero chance that OKC is still playing if they had Olynyk? Yes. Therefore it was a terrible use of resources. It is even possible that if the pick does convey the player Presti would have taken at OKC's spot is who takes with Dallas' pick a few spots ahead. Passing on an opportunity to fill the glaring hole keeping your roster from being a legitimate championship contender for some future maybe that might not even convey is like playing Russian roulette. Winning doesn't gain you anything, but losing costs you significantly.

[Bremzi]

Obviously currency = volume, but lottery tickets are improved through odds. I feel like he turned the 26 pick into a higher odds lottery ticket in 2028. Is that actually better than having Olynyk for a year? \("/)/ I don't know yet, but I think so.

Where do your project a team led by Luka in his prime to be picking? It could be the last pick in the first round and OKC gave away their pick, it isn't likely to be a lottery pick. Was it worth giving away a lottery ticket, a draft pick this year, to maybe move up a few spots in a few years? No, you did not add an additional lottery ticket. Is there a non-zero chance that OKC is still playing if they had Olynyk? Yes. Therefore it was a terrible use of resources. It is even possible that if the pick does convey the player Presti would have taken at OKC's spot is who takes with Dallas' pick a few spots ahead. Passing on an opportunity to fill the glaring hole keeping your roster from being a legitimate championship contender for some future maybe that might not even convey is like playing Russian roulette. Winning doesn't gain you anything, but losing costs you significantly.

At the time of the trade, Presti likely didnt count Dallas would be so improved. There were questions of Luka staying long-term if the team wouldnt improve. He might also get injured or be out of prime, since he is playing profesionaly for almost a decade.

Moreover, at that time Kyrie will be 36 and Luka will have a close to 70-80 mil a year salary cap situation with a restrictive new cap. Mavs have sold their future firstrounders and it is hard to imagine jow they improve their team in FA. They might not be able to even retain Derrick Jones JR this year as they can offer him cca 12 mil (OKC could even steal him with a larger offer). Also - at the time of the trade, Hayward had the better season per game than PJ washington did. Hindsight of course, but it isnt out of the unimaginable that pick turns into a lottery pick (hell, even last year with Kyrie dallas missed the play-in). Whereas I dont believe that OKC could be worse than Dallas in 2028 with young bucks JDub Chet MVP lvl SGA and the incoming talent infuse through picks.

Even though SGA is slightly older than Luka, Luka has been playing for longer and at larger minutes. He is also way bigger and noone really knows how much his suboptimal weight is translating to joint issues. His game type isnt really based on athleticism, but your body still needs to be able to run jump pivot on hard wood for 35 mins a game for 80-90-100 games a year (he also plays for the national team every year and Dallas usually has long series). For what its worth, that could be the #1 pick in 2028 if you look that last year they were 10th and this year Atlanta got the #1 pick at 10. Do you know how difficult it is to get an unrestricted pick back in trades for a rotational player so many years out? Even Denver picks in 2027-2029 or whatever the case is have 1-5 protection on them and they were the freaking champs.

[Kizz Fastfists]

At the time of the trade, Presti likely didnt count Dallas would be so improved. There were questions of Luka staying long-term if the team wouldnt improve. He might also get injured or be out of prime, since he is playing profesionaly for almost a decade.

Moreover, at that time Kyrie will be 36 and Luka will have a close to 70-80 mil a year salary cap situation with a restrictive new cap. Mavs have sold their future firstrounders and it is hard to imagine jow they improve their team in FA. They might not be able to even retain Derrick Jones JR this year as they can offer him cca 12 mil (OKC could even steal him with a larger offer). Also - at the time of the trade, Hayward had the better season per game than PJ washington did. Hindsight of course, but it isnt out of the unimaginable that pick turns into a lottery pick (hell, even last year with Kyrie dallas missed the play-in). Whereas I dont believe that OKC could be worse than Dallas in 2028 with young bucks JDub Chet MVP lvl SGA and the incoming talent infuse through picks.

Even though SGA is slightly older than Luka, Luka has been playing for longer and at larger minutes. He is also way bigger and noone really knows how much his suboptimal weight is translating to joint issues. His game type isnt really based on athleticism, but your body still needs to be able to run jump pivot on hard wood for 35 mins a game for 80-90-100 games a year (he also plays for the national team every year and Dallas usually has long series). For what its worth, that could be the #1 pick in 2028 if you look that last year they were 10th and this year Atlanta got the #1 pick at 10. Do you know how difficult it is to get an unrestricted pick back in trades for a rotational player so many years out? Even Denver picks in 2027-2029 or whatever the case is have 1-5 protection on them and they were the freaking champs.

Where to begin with this mess of nonsense. The Dallas pick can not be #1 as it is top 2 protected not unrestricted. It is a pick SWAP not a pick. OKC has to give up their FRP that year to get it. Chet is more likely to get injured, as a lean 7 footer with a history of foot problems, and miss extended time than Luka. Dallas was a lottery team last year because Kyrie was only there for 20 games after they traded for him. Their second best player before adding Kyrie was Christian Wood or Dinwiddie, take your pick. Dallas built their team in the last 18 months. You think they won't be able to replace Kyrie as he ages with the cap projected to soar with the new $8B TV deal? Dallas will find some team, like OKC, to eat Hardaway's salary for a 2nd round pick or two to resign DJJ with no issues. Just like they dumped Bertans on OKC and still got the player they wanted moving down two spots in the draft. Dallas has been in the WCF two of the last three years and the playoffs four of the last five. You really want to gamble on that pick being in a random down year? I'll take that bet.

Are you seriously comparing PPG with 30+ MPG on a losing team to the role that the players would play in OKC? Do you think that stat matters more than efficiency, rebounding percentage, defensive +/- and all the things that actually count for a role player on a contender? If that is what you are looking at then Hayward should have come in as the starter and continued getting 12 shots a game, instead of being a bench player getting 4 shots a game to try to let him reach those numbers and destroy OKC's playoff seeding and put them out of the playoffs in the first round. This board had been discussing the fit of P.J. Washington since last off-season. Everyone who follows the Thunder knew Washington was a great fit and everyone knew Hayward had lost any ability to rebound, play defense or be effective as a NBA player.

Luka has been playing in the NBA the same number of years as SGA. Luka has played more games and minutes because he has been healthier and leading his team deep into the playoffs consistently. I guess that could change, but I wouldn't want to put money on Luka suddenly becoming Embiid. Dallas has proven over a long period of time that they know how to fill out a roster around a superstar player. They did it with Dirk and they are doing it with Luka. Hindsight? Did OKC only become the top team in the West after the trade deadline? Trading for Hayward was a tanking move. It was discussed at the time of the trade that it made OKC worse. If you are going to call something hindsight don't let it be in print in the same thread you are posting in. Did you miss all those posts? Do I need to link them for you? Luka is bigger? Yes, that's why he can do things that most players can't. Luka's not athletic? Yet he somehow puts up over 30-9-9. Imagine if he were an athlete worthy of being in the NBA. James Harden, who I assume you'd call athletic, is 6'6 220 and Luka is 6'7 and 230. How bad has playing at that height/weight ratio hurt Harden?

[Dadouv47]

At the time of the trade, Presti likely didnt count Dallas would be so improved. There were questions of Luka staying long-term if the team wouldnt improve. He might also get injured or be out of prime, since he is playing profesionaly for almost a decade.

Moreover, at that time Kyrie will be 36 and Luka will have a close to 70-80 mil a year salary cap situation with a restrictive new cap. Mavs have sold their future firstrounders and it is hard to imagine jow they improve their team in FA. They might not be able to even retain Derrick Jones JR this year as they can offer him cca 12 mil (OKC could even steal him with a larger offer). Also - at the time of the trade, Hayward had the better season per game than PJ washington did. Hindsight of course, but it isnt out of the unimaginable that pick turns into a lottery pick (hell, even last year with Kyrie dallas missed the play-in). Whereas I dont believe that OKC could be worse than Dallas in 2028 with young bucks JDub Chet MVP lvl SGA and the incoming talent infuse through picks.

Even though SGA is slightly older than Luka, Luka has been playing for longer and at larger minutes. He is also way bigger and noone really knows how much his suboptimal weight is translating to joint issues. His game type isnt really based on athleticism, but your body still needs to be able to run jump pivot on hard wood for 35 mins a game for 80-90-100 games a year (he also plays for the national team every year and Dallas usually has long series). For what its worth, that could be the #1 pick in 2028 if you look that last year they were 10th and this year Atlanta got the #1 pick at 10. Do you know how difficult it is to get an unrestricted pick back in trades for a rotational player so many years out? Even Denver picks in 2027-2029 or whatever the case is have 1-5 protection on them and they were the freaking champs.

Where to begin with this mess of nonsense. The Dallas pick can not be #1 as it is top 2 protected not unrestricted. It is a pick SWAP not a pick. OKC has to give up their FRP that year to get it. Chet is more likely to get injured, as a lean 7 footer with a history of foot problems, and miss extended time than Luka. Dallas was a lottery team last year because Kyrie was only there for 20 games after they traded for him. Their second best player before adding Kyrie was Christian Wood or Dinwiddie, take your pick. Dallas built their team in the last 18 months. You think they won't be able to replace Kyrie as he ages with the cap projected to soar with the new $8B TV deal? Dallas will find some team, like OKC, to eat Hardaway's salary for a 2nd round pick or two to resign DJJ with no issues. Just like they dumped Bertans on OKC and still got the player they wanted moving down two spots in the draft. Dallas has been in the WCF two of the last three years and the playoffs four of the last five. You really want to gamble on that pick being in a random down year? I'll take that bet.

Are you seriously comparing PPG with 30+ MPG on a losing team to the role that the players would play in OKC? Do you think that stat matters more than efficiency, rebounding percentage, defensive +/- and all the things that actually count for a role player on a contender? If that is what you are looking at then Hayward should have come in as the starter and continued getting 12 shots a game, instead of being a bench player getting 4 shots a game to try to let him reach those numbers and destroy OKC's playoff seeding and put them out of the playoffs in the first round. This board had been discussing the fit of P.J. Washington since last off-season. Everyone who follows the Thunder knew Washington was a great fit and everyone knew Hayward had lost any ability to rebound, play defense or be effective as a NBA player.

Luka has been playing in the NBA the same number of years as SGA. Luka has played more games and minutes because he has been healthier and leading his team deep into the playoffs consistently. I guess that could change, but I wouldn't want to put money on Luka suddenly becoming Embiid. Dallas has proven over a long period of time that they know how to fill out a roster around a superstar player. They did it with Dirk and they are doing it with Luka. Hindsight? Did OKC only become the top team in the West after the trade deadline? Trading for Hayward was a tanking move. It was discussed at the time of the trade that it made OKC worse. If you are going to call something hindsight don't let it be in print in the same thread you are posting in. Did you miss all those posts? Do I need to link them for you? Luka is bigger? Yes, that's why he can do things that most players can't. Luka's not athletic? Yet he somehow puts up over 30-9-9. Imagine if he were an athlete worthy of being in the NBA. James Harden, who I assume you'd call athletic, is 6'6 220 and Luka is 6'7 and 230. How bad has playing at that height/weight ratio hurt Harden?

Dallas did a terrible job during 3-4 years with Luka and now they had an incredible offseason. Let's not act like they did a good job before and built the right way to win with Doncic who's a superstar for way longer than Shai. And yeah, of course I agree with you about PJ Washington since I asked to sign him so many times but somehow not a single contender offered him a deal last offseason so Presti wasn't the only one to mess up even if he was really a great fit to us and I blame him for not taking a fly on PJ.

Of course not adding a good player at the deadline was a terrible mistake from Presti too but we could have won with our current roster. I think the lack of experience really cost us the series because JDub/Chet were really bad on offense and I have never seen a team winning a championship with your second and third best players struggling so much offensively and adding a Olynyk kind of player wouldn't have changed that outcome (maybe against Dallas but very unlikely to win the Finals, Shai wasn't gonna keep up shooting 45% from three).

Now we gotta find a true missing piece. Not a Olynyk, John Collins kind of player but a true elite starter that will replace Giddey. Good luck to Sam for that.

[OKC2008]

Dallas did a terrible job during 3-4 years with Luka and now they had an incredible offseason. Let's not act like they did a good job before and built the right way to win with Doncic who's a superstar for way longer than Shai. And yeah, of course I agree with you about PJ Washington since I asked to sign him so many times but somehow not a single contender offered him a deal last offseason so Presti wasn't the only one to mess up even if he was really a great fit to us and I blame him for not taking a fly on PJ.

Of course not adding a good player at the deadline was a terrible mistake from Presti too but we could have won with our current roster. I think the lack of experience really cost us the series because JDub/Chet were really bad on offense and I have never seen a team winning a championship with your second and third best players struggling so much offensively and adding a Olynyk kind of player wouldn't have changed that outcome (maybe against Dallas but very unlikely to win the Finals, Shai wasn't gonna keep up shooting 45% from three).

Now we gotta find a true missing piece. Not a Olynyk, John Collins kind of player but a true elite starter that will replace Giddey. Good luck to Sam for that.

100% agree