getrichordie wrote: That trade was Dion insurance in the playoffs but more importantly it was to save $10 mil. and open up a roster spot.
By the way guys, what do you think of signing Kevin Martin back? Lawson (too much of a distraction?)?
Lawson fell off a cliff, and K Mart is just Morrow again. That said, I wouldn't be surprised if they tried, gotta find a reason to bench any good wings for worse ones.
I think it would be a great move if we signed Lawson. Sure, he's not playing well because he's having to adjust his entire life. Ever tried quitting alcohol cold turkey? How about cigarettes cold turkey? It's a massive lifestyle adjustment and it affects your mental sharpness but it comes back. It would be a great test for our organization to see if we can help Lawson make a comeback.
You can't be anti-Payne because he's "too small to play the kinda D we want" and then turn around and be pro-Lawson. You just can't.
"If I walk outside somebody might just hit me with their car, or say anything negative to me." - KD on not going outside anymore.
Go get 'em Cam! **** those ignorant idiots! I just had two guys telling me he's our worst defender. With enough stupid fans like that, of course Presti can get by with his bs.
"I don't know of any player that, when the shot goes up, he doesn't want it to go in," Donovan said
Pillendreher wrote:Just a little bit of statistical research because some idiots were trying to tell me Payne's worse defensively than Waiters:
DRPM: Waiters -2.29 77th for SGs DRPM: Payne: -1.10 33rd for PGs DBPM: Waiters -0.9 DBPM: Pane -0.6 DRAPM: Waiters -1.17 DRAPM: Payne -0.8 On/Off defensively: Waiters -5.7 On/Off defensively: Payne -4.9 STL%: Waiters 1.8% STL%: Payne 3.0% (that's Westbrook's level and he's not even gambling like Waiters)
Yep.
Yep.
MyUniBroDavis wrote: he was like YALL PEOPLE WHO DOUBT ME WILL SEE YALLS STATS ARE WRONG I HAVE THE BIG BRAIN PLAYS MUCHO NASTY BIG BRAIN BIG CHUNGUS BRAIN YOU BOYS ON UR BBALL REFERENCE NO UNDERSTANDO
And then he comes around and tells me all those stats are moot because they point Curry as a better defender than Thompson. And Dion stopped Green multiple times against GSW.
Geez.
"I don't know of any player that, when the shot goes up, he doesn't want it to go in," Donovan said
bondom34 wrote:Lawson fell off a cliff, and K Mart is just Morrow again. That said, I wouldn't be surprised if they tried, gotta find a reason to bench any good wings for worse ones.
I think it would be a great move if we signed Lawson. Sure, he's not playing well because he's having to adjust his entire life. Ever tried quitting alcohol cold turkey? How about cigarettes cold turkey? It's a massive lifestyle adjustment and it affects your mental sharpness but it comes back. It would be a great test for our organization to see if we can help Lawson make a comeback.
You can't be anti-Payne because he's "too small to play the kinda D we want" and then turn around and be pro-Lawson. You just can't.
Actually, I can be. Why not? "You just can't," isn't a good argument, at all. Ty Lawson is stronger, especially in his lower body and has a lower center of gravity which helps a lot defensively. Imagine having pre-DUI Lawson, Payne, and Westbrook on the team. What's the downside? None. You cut his ass if he messes up. Incentivize his contract. The upside could be great. I'm just saying, you can't just easily dismiss him because he didn't workout in Houston and got a DUI. You have to look at the bad AND the good. The Thunder could be the team to rejuvenate him.
Spoiler:
To help Lawson with his recovery, the Rockets paired him with John Lucas, a former NBA player who battled drug and alcohol additions during his career and who now mentors players with similar problems.
Team officials didn't have any problems with Lawson off the court and were pleased with his interactions with Lucas and his teammates.
It was on the court where the issues arose, and Lawson never found a rhythm or gained confidence. When he was with Denver, Lawson played well as a penetrator who was able to make strong passes to his centers.
Houston's big men, mainly Dwight Howard and Clint Capela, like lob passes on penetrations, which Lawson couldn't manage on a consistent basis.
Rockets interim coach J.B. Bickerstaff encouraged Lawson to shoot more and become the main ball handler with the second unit.
Pillendreher wrote:Just a little bit of statistical research because some idiots were trying to tell me Payne's worse defensively than Waiters:
DRPM: Waiters -2.29 77th for SGs DRPM: Payne: -1.10 33rd for PGs DBPM: Waiters -0.9 DBPM: Pane -0.6 DRAPM: Waiters -1.17 DRAPM: Payne -0.8 On/Off defensively: Waiters -5.7 On/Off defensively: Payne -4.9 STL%: Waiters 1.8% STL%: Payne 3.0% (that's Westbrook's level and he's not even gambling like Waiters)
Okay, nice advanced statistics and all, but I think you are putting too much stock in 'em. What happens if GSW or SAS decides to take advantage of Payne's small size and they get him switched on a SF or a PF or even a SG? Payne isn't even big enough to switch on to the VAST majority of shooting guards in the NBA. He would get demolished. Plain and simple. Foye, Waiters, and Singler can all do that.
You guys are looking at it from the wrong perspective, to be quite frank. You have to look at from the perspective of how well he matches up vs GSW. He's just too small. His frame is too thin. It would be so easy for anyone on GSW's playoff rotation to get to the rim against him.
Payne is not a bad player, he just doesn't have the size to match up vs. GSW and a lot of teams. He's 180 lbs soak and wet for Christ's sake.
Pillendreher wrote:And then he comes around and tells me all those stats are moot because they point Curry as a better defender than Thompson. And Dion stopped Green multiple times against GSW.
getrichordie wrote: I think it would be a great move if we signed Lawson. Sure, he's not playing well because he's having to adjust his entire life. Ever tried quitting alcohol cold turkey? How about cigarettes cold turkey? It's a massive lifestyle adjustment and it affects your mental sharpness but it comes back. It would be a great test for our organization to see if we can help Lawson make a comeback.
You can't be anti-Payne because he's "too small to play the kinda D we want" and then turn around and be pro-Lawson. You just can't.
Actually, I can be. Why not? "You just can't," isn't a good argument, at all. Ty Lawson is stronger, especially in his lower body and has a lower center of gravity which helps a lot defensively. Imagine having pre-DUI Lawson, Payne, and Westbrook on the team. What's the downside? None. You cut his ass if he messes up. Incentivize his contract. The upside could be great. I'm just saying, you can't just easily dismiss him because he didn't workout in Houston and got a DUI. You have to look at the bad AND the good. The Thunder could be the team to rejuvenate him.
Spoiler:
To help Lawson with his recovery, the Rockets paired him with John Lucas, a former NBA player who battled drug and alcohol additions during his career and who now mentors players with similar problems.
Team officials didn't have any problems with Lawson off the court and were pleased with his interactions with Lucas and his teammates.
It was on the court where the issues arose, and Lawson never found a rhythm or gained confidence. When he was with Denver, Lawson played well as a penetrator who was able to make strong passes to his centers.
Houston's big men, mainly Dwight Howard and Clint Capela, like lob passes on penetrations, which Lawson couldn't manage on a consistent basis.
Rockets interim coach J.B. Bickerstaff encouraged Lawson to shoot more and become the main ball handler with the second unit.
Pillendreher wrote:Just a little bit of statistical research because some idiots were trying to tell me Payne's worse defensively than Waiters:
DRPM: Waiters -2.29 77th for SGs DRPM: Payne: -1.10 33rd for PGs DBPM: Waiters -0.9 DBPM: Pane -0.6 DRAPM: Waiters -1.17 DRAPM: Payne -0.8 On/Off defensively: Waiters -5.7 On/Off defensively: Payne -4.9 STL%: Waiters 1.8% STL%: Payne 3.0% (that's Westbrook's level and he's not even gambling like Waiters)
Okay, nice advanced statistics and all, but I think you are putting too much stock in 'em. What happens if GSW or SAS decides to take advantage of Payne's small size and they get him switched on a SF or a PF or even a SG? Payne isn't even big enough to switch on to the VAST majority of shooting guards in the NBA. He would get demolished. Plain and simple. Foye, Waiters, and Singler can all do that.
You guys are looking at it from the wrong perspective, to be quite frank. You have to look at from the perspective of how well he matches up vs GSW. He's just too small. His frame is too thin. It would be so easy for anyone on GSW's playoff rotation to get to the rim against him.
Payne is not a bad player, he just doesn't have the size to match up vs. GSW and a lot of teams. He's 180 lbs soak and wet for Christ's sake.
Pillendreher wrote:And then he comes around and tells me all those stats are moot because they point Curry as a better defender than Thompson. And Dion stopped Green multiple times against GSW.
Geez.
Curry is not a better defender than Thompson.
So, to the point, the solution to benching Cam for defense is to sign a smaller, worse defending PG with drinking problems as a reclamation project.
Oh, and Cam is long enough to defend 2s, and Dion can't defend them either. The saying "nice stats and all" is generally followed by a statement with no real backing that's just a guess. Oh, and Cam is under 2 inches shorter than Dion, with the same wingspan. He's got plenty of size.
MyUniBroDavis wrote: he was like YALL PEOPLE WHO DOUBT ME WILL SEE YALLS STATS ARE WRONG I HAVE THE BIG BRAIN PLAYS MUCHO NASTY BIG BRAIN BIG CHUNGUS BRAIN YOU BOYS ON UR BBALL REFERENCE NO UNDERSTANDO
Cuban_Linx wrote:You can't be anti-Payne because he's "too small to play the kinda D we want" and then turn around and be pro-Lawson. You just can't.
Actually, I can be. Why not? "You just can't," isn't a good argument, at all. Ty Lawson is stronger, especially in his lower body and has a lower center of gravity which helps a lot defensively. Imagine having pre-DUI Lawson, Payne, and Westbrook on the team. What's the downside? None. You cut his ass if he messes up. Incentivize his contract. The upside could be great. I'm just saying, you can't just easily dismiss him because he didn't workout in Houston and got a DUI. You have to look at the bad AND the good. The Thunder could be the team to rejuvenate him.
[spoiler]
To help Lawson with his recovery, the Rockets paired him with John Lucas, a former NBA player who battled drug and alcohol additions during his career and who now mentors players with similar problems.
Team officials didn't have any problems with Lawson off the court and were pleased with his interactions with Lucas and his teammates.
It was on the court where the issues arose, and Lawson never found a rhythm or gained confidence. When he was with Denver, Lawson played well as a penetrator who was able to make strong passes to his centers.
Houston's big men, mainly Dwight Howard and Clint Capela, like lob passes on penetrations, which Lawson couldn't manage on a consistent basis.
Rockets interim coach J.B. Bickerstaff encouraged Lawson to shoot more and become the main ball handler with the second unit.
Pillendreher wrote:Just a little bit of statistical research because some idiots were trying to tell me Payne's worse defensively than Waiters:
DRPM: Waiters -2.29 77th for SGs DRPM: Payne: -1.10 33rd for PGs DBPM: Waiters -0.9 DBPM: Pane -0.6 DRAPM: Waiters -1.17 DRAPM: Payne -0.8 On/Off defensively: Waiters -5.7 On/Off defensively: Payne -4.9 STL%: Waiters 1.8% STL%: Payne 3.0% (that's Westbrook's level and he's not even gambling like Waiters)
Okay, nice advanced statistics and all, but I think you are putting too much stock in 'em. What happens if GSW or SAS decides to take advantage of Payne's small size and they get him switched on a SF or a PF or even a SG? Payne isn't even big enough to switch on to the VAST majority of shooting guards in the NBA. He would get demolished. Plain and simple. Foye, Waiters, and Singler can all do that.
You guys are looking at it from the wrong perspective, to be quite frank. You have to look at from the perspective of how well he matches up vs GSW. He's just too small. His frame is too thin. It would be so easy for anyone on GSW's playoff rotation to get to the rim against him.
Payne is not a bad player, he just doesn't have the size to match up vs. GSW and a lot of teams. He's 180 lbs soak and wet for Christ's sake.
Pillendreher wrote:And then he comes around and tells me all those stats are moot because they point Curry as a better defender than Thompson. And Dion stopped Green multiple times against GSW.
Geez.
Curry is not a better defender than Thompson.
[/Spoiler] So, to the point, the solution to benching Cam for defense is to sign a smaller, worse defending PG with drinking problems as a reclamation project.
Oh, and Cam is long enough to defend 2s, and Dion can't defend them either. The saying "nice stats and all" is generally followed by a statement with no real backing that's just a guess. Oh, and Cam is under 2 inches shorter than Dion, with the same wingspan. He's got plenty of size.
No one said anything about him being the solution to benching Cam for defense except you. I was thinking if we are going to contend for another 2-3 years, he could be a low-risk/high-reward signing on a cheap contract that could be a contributor for us next year or the year after. We would quickly find that out and we don't have devote many dollars.
getrichordie wrote:No one said anything about him being the solution to benching Cam for defense except you. I was thinking if we are going to contend for another 2-3 years, he could be a low-risk/high-reward signing on a cheap contract that could be a contributor for us next year or the year after. We would quickly find that out and we don't have devote many dollars.
Except you said that's why Cam was benched and doesn't play over Dion, because he's clearly better on offense. So bringing in Lawson, you bring in an older, smaller, worse defending PG with a back background. Oh, and to top it off you make sure Cam gets benched even further. Until Waiters and Foye are gone, the guard situation is all F'ed on the roster. Lawson doesn't help that, he hasn't been good in about a year and a half. And when he was he still couldn't defend.
MyUniBroDavis wrote: he was like YALL PEOPLE WHO DOUBT ME WILL SEE YALLS STATS ARE WRONG I HAVE THE BIG BRAIN PLAYS MUCHO NASTY BIG BRAIN BIG CHUNGUS BRAIN YOU BOYS ON UR BBALL REFERENCE NO UNDERSTANDO
getrichordie wrote:No one said anything about him being the solution to benching Cam for defense except you. I was thinking if we are going to contend for another 2-3 years, he could be a low-risk/high-reward signing on a cheap contract that could be a contributor for us next year or the year after. We would quickly find that out and we don't have devote many dollars.
Except you said that's why Cam was benched and doesn't play over Dion, because he's clearly better on offense. So bringing in Lawson, you bring in an older, smaller, worse defending PG with a back background. Oh, and to top it off you make sure Cam gets benched even further. Until Waiters and Foye are gone, the guard situation is all F'ed on the roster. Lawson doesn't help that, he hasn't been good in about a year and a half. And when he was he still couldn't defend.
Just because we bring in Lawson doesn't mean he starts ahead of anyone. We could sit him on the bench until we feel he has learned the system and is ready to contribute again at a high level. That gives us flexibility as if he regains form, we could possibly use him as a nice tradechip (sell high) to improve our rotation. You are assuming that's why I would want to bring in Lawson. No, sit him, get him mentally healthy, let him soak up our offensive and defensive system so next year he can take Augustin's role of being on the bench.
getrichordie wrote:No one said anything about him being the solution to benching Cam for defense except you. I was thinking if we are going to contend for another 2-3 years, he could be a low-risk/high-reward signing on a cheap contract that could be a contributor for us next year or the year after. We would quickly find that out and we don't have devote many dollars.
Except you said that's why Cam was benched and doesn't play over Dion, because he's clearly better on offense. So bringing in Lawson, you bring in an older, smaller, worse defending PG with a back background. Oh, and to top it off you make sure Cam gets benched even further. Until Waiters and Foye are gone, the guard situation is all F'ed on the roster. Lawson doesn't help that, he hasn't been good in about a year and a half. And when he was he still couldn't defend.
Just because we bring in Lawson doesn't mean he starts ahead of anyone. We could sit him on the bench until we feel he has learned the system and is ready to contribute again at a high level. That gives us flexibility as if he regains form, we could possibly use him as a nice tradechip (sell high) to improve our rotation. You are assuming that's why I would want to bring in Lawson. No, sit him, get him mentally healthy, let him soak up our offensive and defensive system so next year he can take Augustin's role of being on the bench.
Cam can do all that
MyUniBroDavis wrote: he was like YALL PEOPLE WHO DOUBT ME WILL SEE YALLS STATS ARE WRONG I HAVE THE BIG BRAIN PLAYS MUCHO NASTY BIG BRAIN BIG CHUNGUS BRAIN YOU BOYS ON UR BBALL REFERENCE NO UNDERSTANDO
bondom34 wrote:Except you said that's why Cam was benched and doesn't play over Dion, because he's clearly better on offense. So bringing in Lawson, you bring in an older, smaller, worse defending PG with a back background. Oh, and to top it off you make sure Cam gets benched even further. Until Waiters and Foye are gone, the guard situation is all F'ed on the roster. Lawson doesn't help that, he hasn't been good in about a year and a half. And when he was he still couldn't defend.
Just because we bring in Lawson doesn't mean he starts ahead of anyone. We could sit him on the bench until we feel he has learned the system and is ready to contribute again at a high level. That gives us flexibility as if he regains form, we could possibly use him as a nice tradechip (sell high) to improve our rotation. You are assuming that's why I would want to bring in Lawson. No, sit him, get him mentally healthy, let him soak up our offensive and defensive system so next year he can take Augustin's role of being on the bench.
Cam can do all that
I don't disagree with you but he can't do that if he is injured and we won't trade him to improve our rotation. Ty Lawson can play if Cam is injured (or Westbrook) and can be a nice trade (POTENTIALLY) chip like I said.
getrichordie wrote: Just because we bring in Lawson doesn't mean he starts ahead of anyone. We could sit him on the bench until we feel he has learned the system and is ready to contribute again at a high level. That gives us flexibility as if he regains form, we could possibly use him as a nice tradechip (sell high) to improve our rotation. You are assuming that's why I would want to bring in Lawson. No, sit him, get him mentally healthy, let him soak up our offensive and defensive system so next year he can take Augustin's role of being on the bench.
Cam can do all that
I don't disagree with you but he can't do that if he is injured and we won't trade him to improve our rotation. Ty Lawson can play if Cam is injured (or Westbrook) and can be a nice trade (POTENTIALLY) chip like I said.
So he'd be a 3rd PG, which you can get in the offseason. And he's not getting a deal with a guarantee next season, so he wouldn't be tradeable.
MyUniBroDavis wrote: he was like YALL PEOPLE WHO DOUBT ME WILL SEE YALLS STATS ARE WRONG I HAVE THE BIG BRAIN PLAYS MUCHO NASTY BIG BRAIN BIG CHUNGUS BRAIN YOU BOYS ON UR BBALL REFERENCE NO UNDERSTANDO
I don't disagree with you but he can't do that if he is injured and we won't trade him to improve our rotation. Ty Lawson can play if Cam is injured (or Westbrook) and can be a nice trade (POTENTIALLY) chip like I said.
So he'd be a 3rd PG, which you can get in the offseason. And he's not getting a deal with a guarantee next season, so he wouldn't be tradeable.
Could do a team-option. Nothing wrong with picking up Lawson as our flyer for our 3rd PG. He **** up? Cut him.
getrichordie wrote: I don't disagree with you but he can't do that if he is injured and we won't trade him to improve our rotation. Ty Lawson can play if Cam is injured (or Westbrook) and can be a nice trade (POTENTIALLY) chip like I said.
So he'd be a 3rd PG, which you can get in the offseason. And he's not getting a deal with a guarantee next season, so he wouldn't be tradeable.
Could do a team-option. Nothing wrong with picking up Lawson as our flyer for our 3rd PG. He **** up? Cut him.
That's not how an option works. You'd have to cut him by the start of the offseason in general, and then you wouldn't be able to. If the NG date was next season, you'd be able to, but you'd still be paying to cut a guy. So there'd be better options on players who don't have his past and can do the same thing.
MyUniBroDavis wrote: he was like YALL PEOPLE WHO DOUBT ME WILL SEE YALLS STATS ARE WRONG I HAVE THE BIG BRAIN PLAYS MUCHO NASTY BIG BRAIN BIG CHUNGUS BRAIN YOU BOYS ON UR BBALL REFERENCE NO UNDERSTANDO
bondom34 wrote:So he'd be a 3rd PG, which you can get in the offseason. And he's not getting a deal with a guarantee next season, so he wouldn't be tradeable.
Could do a team-option. Nothing wrong with picking up Lawson as our flyer for our 3rd PG. He **** up? Cut him.
That's not how an option works. You'd have to cut him by the start of the offseason in general, and then you wouldn't be able to. If the NG date was next season, you'd be able to, but you'd still be paying to cut a guy. So there'd be better options on players who don't have his past and can do the same thing.
Okay, okay. I was not aware of that. You got me. So, let me get this straight... We would have to guarantee his 2nd year to some extent? Or do we have to guarantee all of it?
If so, then do we have to ask ourselves what we can get to fill the 15th roster spot after Durant re-signs or before (assuming he re-signs)?
School me on technical mumbo-jumbo, please! I need to know these things!
getrichordie wrote:No one said anything about him being the solution to benching Cam for defense except you. I was thinking if we are going to contend for another 2-3 years, he could be a low-risk/high-reward signing on a cheap contract that could be a contributor for us next year or the year after. We would quickly find that out and we don't have devote many dollars.
Except you said that's why Cam was benched and doesn't play over Dion, because he's clearly better on offense. So bringing in Lawson, you bring in an older, smaller, worse defending PG with a back background. Oh, and to top it off you make sure Cam gets benched even further. Until Waiters and Foye are gone, the guard situation is all F'ed on the roster. Lawson doesn't help that, he hasn't been good in about a year and a half. And when he was he still couldn't defend.
Just because we bring in Lawson doesn't mean he starts ahead of anyone. We could sit him on the bench until we feel he has learned the system and is ready to contribute again at a high level. That gives us flexibility as if he regains form, we could possibly use him as a nice tradechip (sell high) to improve our rotation. You are assuming that's why I would want to bring in Lawson. No, sit him, get him mentally healthy, let him soak up our offensive and defensive system so next year he can take Augustin's role of being on the bench.
You guys are looking at it from the wrong perspective, to be quite frank. You have to look at from the perspective of how well he matches up vs GSW. He's just too small. His frame is too thin. It would be so easy for anyone on GSW's playoff rotation to get to the rim against him.
LolWut?
“If you're getting stops and you're making threes and the other team's not scoring, that's when you're going to see a huge point difference there,” coach Billy Donovan said.
