Thunder Offseason Thread

Old Man Game · Post #341 » by **Old Man Game** » Tue Apr 30, 2019 1:14 pm

Pillendreher wrote:

Read on Twitter

He'll keep playing this angle until the fanbase puts an end to it by not buying into his bull anymore. He's acting like this is year 2 and the whole town is just happy that the franchise is in OKC. Like the oncourt product doesn't matter.

As a lifelong Oklahoman I feel like there's a certain amount of irony here. Prior to the NBA coming to town were were always thought of as "a college" town/state as far as sports fandom goes. And if there's one thing that is characteristic of the majority of those fans, its that they don't accept mediocrity. OU fans will call for the coache's head if they win less than 8 games. An analogy might be an OU football team that finished 4th or 5th in the Big 12 for 3 straight seasons. Coach would be out the door so fast the dude's head would spin.

Post #342 » by **ThunderBolt** » Tue Apr 30, 2019 2:36 pm

Old Man Game wrote:
Pillendreher wrote:

Read on Twitter

He'll keep playing this angle until the fanbase puts an end to it by not buying into his bull anymore. He's acting like this is year 2 and the whole town is just happy that the franchise is in OKC. Like the oncourt product doesn't matter.

As a lifelong Oklahoman I feel like there's a certain amount of irony here. Prior to the NBA coming to town were were always thought of as "a college" town/state as far as sports fandom goes. And if there's one thing that is characteristic of the majority of those fans, its that they don't accept mediocrity. OU fans will call for the coache's head if they win less than 8 games. An analogy might be an OU football team that finished 4th or 5th in the Big 12 for 3 straight seasons. Coach would be out the door so fast the dude's head would spin.

I do feel like there is growing criticism of presti and the thunder. I don’t listen to a ton of sports talk radio but there is much more criticism of prestis responses and lack of results than there was last year. It’s nowhere near where it would be in a larger metro but I don’t wonder if ticket sales will start to be impacted if they run the same team back next year. There isn’t a melo on this roster to blame. Most media and fans don’t love dononvan but seem to be more frustrated with presti.

Post #343 » by **slick_watts** » Tue Apr 30, 2019 2:40 pm

the thunder's inability to shoot has drawn a lot of attention from sports media but not enough attention has been put on the loss of andre roberson and alex abrines. '

Post #344 » by **slick_watts** » Tue Apr 30, 2019 2:41 pm

portland can't play any of denver's primary ball handlers the way they did westbrook and with jokic being one of their primary ball handlers it puts kanter in imminent danger every possession.

jambalaya · Post #345 » by **jambalaya** » Tue Apr 30, 2019 5:53 pm

I am pretty sure it is not a physical issue.

I probably should have left it alone but wanted to say I don't think it is physical health.

I don't feel I should state my guess what it is in advance of him speaking. There may be several things involved with his decision but one is off the court stuff and probably the main thing that caused the decision.

The basic explanation probably comes out by July or he might say it is behind him. Again.

Post #346 » by **ThunderBolt** » Wed May 1, 2019 1:12 am

Read on Twitter

Pillendreher · Post #347 » by **Pillendreher** » Wed May 1, 2019 8:41 am

Read on Twitter

Good. He can take his "We'll figure the skillset out later" bull somewhere else.

Old Man Game · Post #348 » by **Old Man Game** » Wed May 1, 2019 1:37 pm

jambalaya wrote:I am pretty sure it is not a physical issue.

I probably should have left it alone but wanted to say I don't think it is physical health.

I don't feel I should state my guess what it is in advance of him speaking. There may be several things involved with his decision but one is off the court stuff and probably the main thing that caused the decision.

The basic explanation probably comes out by July or he might say it is behind him. Again.

His NBA career is probably over at this point. Maybe he could catch on somewhere back in Europe. Seems like there's little incentive to go public if its something he doesn't want out in the first place.

Pillendreher · Post #349 » by **Pillendreher** » Wed May 1, 2019 10:12 pm

Read on Twitter

Perk needs to come back. He knows that the jig is up.

Osirus89 · Post #350 » by **Osirus89** » Thu May 2, 2019 3:25 am

The Presti exit interview was about what could be expected, but there were some interesting tidbits nonetheless.

Seems like a major move is coming this off-season. I think most of us expect it at this point. Good luck predicting what that move will be, but there will be a fundamental shift to the roster. I had to look up summaries of Presti's previous exit interviews because I was sure he said the "internal improvement" line before specifically and he did. He said it in 2017 before they went out and did the PG trade.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/sports/wp/2017/08/10/brett-dawson-the-paul-george-trade-is-still-shocking-to-most-people-around-the-league/?noredirect=on&utm_term=.897a37f35a65

He was effusive of praise of Ferg during the exit interview. Does he think of Ferguson as a key contributor down the line or as a potential trade piece?

I would almost put money on Steven Adams being traded at this point. Same with dennis schroder depending on what his value is, but they are probably foaming at the mouth to flip Adams contract for more effective money. I have a hard time thinking of teams that need centers, especially centers that make over 25 mill a year for two more years, but they will probably do the first deal they can find.

Kizz Fastfists · Post #351 » by **Kizz Fastfists** » Thu May 2, 2019 4:27 am

Adams, Schroder and Roberson for Teague, Dieng and Wiggins. Minny takes a few years off their long-term money and can experiment with KAT at the 4. OKC gets a real PG to force Russ to SG where he can stand around and not get touches or learn to move without the ball and get easy buckets with movement.

That would require a coaching change in order for it actually change anything. Otherwise you just upgraded your backup PG and added a new inefficient volume scorer to come off the bench. I'd actually like to do Russ and Adams for Teague, Dieng and Wiggins, but I don't think Minny would go for that.

jambalaya · Post #352 » by **jambalaya** » Fri May 3, 2019 1:42 am

jambalaya · Post #353 » by **jambalaya** » Fri May 3, 2019 1:52 am

Ferguson is decent from 3 pt land. He doesn't get to Ft lne. He isn't a rebounder. His steal rate fell 30%. He fouls a lot. He isn't an assistmaker. He is probably a decent shot defender. Not terrible, but not much progress.

Pillendreher · Post #354 » by **Pillendreher** » Sat May 4, 2019 9:00 am

jambalaya wrote:Ferguson is decent from 3 pt land. He doesn't get to Ft lne. He isn't a rebounder. His steal rate fell 30%. He fouls a lot. He isn't an assistmaker. He is probably a decent shot defender. Not terrible, but not much progress.

Value added: 361/361 in the whole league at -116.3 (Grant e.g. at +133)
VORP: 108/114 among players with at least 1900 mp (0.0)
Wins added PIPM: 126/136 among players with at least 1900 mp (+0.4)
Single Season RAPM: 392/530 at -0.88
RPM Wins: 317/514 at +0.28 (among the 60 gp/25 mpg crowd, only Bradley (-0.27), Jackson (-0.54) and Sexton (-3.64) were worse)

So what I'm trying to get at is this: Did the Thunder just spend a whole season starting this kid even though he wasn't particularly close to being at the level of your average NBA starter? Like you said, crow, it's his 2nd season and it's now like he's shown us much of anything really. He had some decent months defensively, but he's nowhere close to Roberson or generally what we need next to Westbrook. Offensively he's basically nonexistent save for a 3 here or there (he just set a new record for fewest touches per game among players with his minutes since the NBA started tracking this stuff in 13/14) and I haven't seen any real development when it comes to his offensive game. Him putting the ball on the floor while trying to make something happen every three weeks is not something I find encougaring when it comes to a 2nd year guard.

Post #355 » by **ThunderBolt** » Sat May 4, 2019 11:50 am

Spoiler:

I think you can attribute that as much to our lack of offensive philosophy as you can Ferguson’s own lack of abilities. I’ve seen him put the balk on the floor and admittedly he isn’t great. However if he were in a real offense how many opportunities would he have gotten this year to develop that skill? I wouldn’t be surprised if he’s been directly told to not worry about driving to the basket. In a 3&D league we are going to go so overboard that we try to develop players lacking fundamentals.

Pillendreher · Post #356 » by **Pillendreher** » Sat May 4, 2019 12:22 pm

ThunderBolt wrote:I think you can attribute that as much to our lack of offensive philosophy as you can Ferguson’s own lack of abilities. I’ve seen him put the balk on the floor and admittedly he isn’t great. However if he were in a real offense how many opportunities would he have gotten this year to develop that skill? I wouldn’t be surprised if he’s been directly told to not worry about driving to the basket. In a 3&D league we are going to go so overboard that we try to develop players lacking fundamentals.

Oh I don't doubt that for one second. The Thunder very rarely find the right balance, for anything really. The kid played 26 minutes a night and got to touch the ball without taking a shot 10 times. Out of his 56 offensive possessions per game, Ferguson spent 40 of them without even getting to touch the ball (71.4 % of them) and he was part of the offensive insofar that he didn't shoot the ball, but actually kept it moving, on 10 out of 56 possesions (17.9 % of them). No NBA player is that passive unless the team actively and intentionally treats him that way. They should have printe a huge sign on his back which said "Ignore me" so opposing teams just stopped bothering with him altogether. They don't have to account for him because we just use him as a warm body out there.

This the dumbing down of Adams' role, just on a smaller scale. They put players in the doghouse while playing them 30 minutes a night. And then years pass and we talk abot how players didn't improve. Well, no ****.

Donovan, the player developer, my ass.

Pillendreher · Post #357 » by **Pillendreher** » Sat May 4, 2019 12:34 pm

Old Man Game wrote:
Pillendreher wrote:

Read on Twitter

He'll keep playing this angle until the fanbase puts an end to it by not buying into his bull anymore. He's acting like this is year 2 and the whole town is just happy that the franchise is in OKC. Like the oncourt product doesn't matter.

As a lifelong Oklahoman I feel like there's a certain amount of irony here. Prior to the NBA coming to town were were always thought of as "a college" town/state as far as sports fandom goes. And if there's one thing that is characteristic of the majority of those fans, its that they don't accept mediocrity. OU fans will call for the coache's head if they win less than 8 games. An analogy might be an OU football team that finished 4th or 5th in the Big 12 for 3 straight seasons. Coach would be out the door so fast the dude's head would spin.

His objective here is obviously to get the fans to treat the franchise like a cherry on top. Like it's not something that could be the object of demands and expectations by the public (who, btw, subsidizes the franchise healivy from what I've heard), but something the fans should just be happy with because it exists. Presti's only play here is to get the fanbase to be happy with failure. As long as they just go along with this, there will be no real pressure on the franchise.

Post #358 » by **ThunderBolt** » Sun May 5, 2019 12:14 am

Does anyone pay for newsok content? Kind of curious if the content of the article matched the headline.
https://newsok.com/article/5630474/okc-thunder-sam-prestis-steady-measured-approach-might-be-driving-thunder-fans-mad?earlyAccess=true

Thunder Up · Post #359 » by **Thunder Up** » Sun May 5, 2019 10:35 pm

Do you guys realize how insane this offense would be with a JJ Redick caliber three point shooter at the 2... Russ would be averaging 13 or 14 assists per game with him, or 3-4 more easy buckets at the rim per game

jambalaya · Post #360 » by **jambalaya** » Mon May 6, 2019 5:34 am

On average this season, NBA teams have 4.7 guys who take at least 6 3pta per 100 possessions and hit at least 35% of them. In 2017-18 the Thunder had 6 such guys. In 2018-19, just 2. Two left, 3 got worse and no longer qualified and one got better (Ferguson). Presti needs to find or make at least 4 more.

Redick takes 12 3pta per 100 possessions and ht almost 40% of them. So that is a whole other level. George takes 9.

Rockets had 9 such guys this season, though they let 2 go. Warriors also have 7. Blazers 4 and 3 close misses. Nuggets 5 and 2 close misses. Thunder had 5 guys who were fairly close though not that close (34% 3 pt fg or worse).