Thunder Offseason Thread

[Dadouv47]

Heh, Miami fans are getting cocky now

The most I’d offer is the Denver pick and miami’s second 1st. If that doesn’t get it done, tell Paul that if he wants to get dealt he has to raise his value. It sucks to have to take that gamble given that one 1st rounder is closer to fair value than two, but any more than that really is getting fleeced.

I think it just depends on how much pressure Presti is under from management.

All things considered, I would say that Presti had a pretty good week. No need to blow it by getting in a hurry to move CP and send out multiple firsts and/or take back a bunch of bad contracts. Just be patient.

I agree. I’d offer the Denver pick right until the season started before throwing in the Miami pick. I kinda soured on the second Miami pick when I found out it was lotto protected for 4 years before the protection goes. Pretty much guarantees it to be outside the lotto.

I wouldn't give up Denver first pick (we need to draft some young guys soon) even less Miami pick. I would give them our 2026 draft pick with some protection to start (hoping that we will be a playoff team by then)

[CROklahoma]

What the ... I'm not giving any pick in CP3 trade, we are in a no rush, just leave Paul with the team and start him along SGA and let one use other ones athleticism and vice versa with Pauls knowledge.

We can easily wait for Paul's contract to expire, and let teams think and put an offer that is going to satisfy our wishes. We need one first rounder and any type of expiring or young contract.

Those thesis that we should attach THREE picks. Some of the fans around the league are mental.

OKC aint dealing picks in future, they're hoarding as many as possible.

[ThunderBolt]

I'm all for accommodating Paul but there has to be reasonable limits on the extent we will go to move him. If for whatever reason we can't deal him and he can't show up without creating problems, then send him the way of Joakim Noah and let him set at home until a deal can be found.

[ThunderBolt]

What utter nonsense. This is nothing but posturing on Miami’s part, nothing more, nothing less. Do the Thunder want to keep CP? Of course not but they aren’t, or shouldn’t be, so desperate or get rid of him that they need to make an “overwhelming” offer to Miami for the privilege of taking back their garbage. Olynyk, Waiters, and Dragic for CP straight up works and the Heat should count themselves lucky to be able to make a trade like that. They have no choice but to try and go all in or close to it right now. Butler and their current cast of supporting players are going nowhere in the post season. If I’m Presti, I sit tight and wait. I don’t want to see CP suit up for the Thunder but I wouldn’t attach a bunch of valuable assets to him just to get rid of him. I would Maybe give up Denver’s first that OKC got for Grant but that is it.

Oklahoma City acquired Paul. He’s now Presti’s problem. If the terms aren’t agreeable to Miami, they won’t deal.

OKC will need to find another suitor to create leverage.

Who might that be?

At some point Miami has to look at their own situation and be realistic. Can they really get Bradly Beal if they take on Wall's contract? Is it worth it? Despite Paul being a bad contract, does he make their team better than the overpaid role players they would trade back to okc? I'm sure they preferred Westbrook to CP3. But if they refuse to even make a trade of bad contracts between them and okc, at some point they are cutting off their nose to spite their face.

[Dadouv47]

What utter nonsense. This is nothing but posturing on Miami’s part, nothing more, nothing less. Do the Thunder want to keep CP? Of course not but they aren’t, or shouldn’t be, so desperate or get rid of him that they need to make an “overwhelming” offer to Miami for the privilege of taking back their garbage. Olynyk, Waiters, and Dragic for CP straight up works and the Heat should count themselves lucky to be able to make a trade like that. They have no choice but to try and go all in or close to it right now. Butler and their current cast of supporting players are going nowhere in the post season. If I’m Presti, I sit tight and wait. I don’t want to see CP suit up for the Thunder but I wouldn’t attach a bunch of valuable assets to him just to get rid of him. I would Maybe give up Denver’s first that OKC got for Grant but that is it.

Oklahoma City acquired Paul. He’s now Presti’s problem. If the terms aren’t agreeable to Miami, they won’t deal.

OKC will need to find another suitor to create leverage.

Who might that be?

At some point Miami has to look at their own situation and be realistic. Can they really get Bradly Beal if they take on Wall's contract? Is it worth it? Despite Paul being a bad contract, does he make their team better than the overpaid role players they would trade back to okc? I'm sure they preferred Westbrook to CP3. But if they refuse to even make a trade of bad contracts between them and okc, at some point they are cutting off their nose to spite their face.

yeah their bradley beal package is garbage. Other teams have way more assets. We wanted Beal as well but come on...

[jake_swivel]

I'm all for accommodating Paul but there has to be reasonable limits on the extent we will go to move him. If for whatever reason we can't deal him and he can't show up without creating problems, then send him the way of Joakim Noah and let him set at home until a deal can be found.

I’m not all for accommodating Paul. The thunder owe him nothing except the $120 million as long as he’s on the roster. He can go to the bobcats for all I care. But sitting him tanks his value. He has to know that. Unless he wants to retire, he needs to play and play well.

[jake_swivel]

What utter nonsense. This is nothing but posturing on Miami’s part, nothing more, nothing less. Do the Thunder want to keep CP? Of course not but they aren’t, or shouldn’t be, so desperate or get rid of him that they need to make an “overwhelming” offer to Miami for the privilege of taking back their garbage. Olynyk, Waiters, and Dragic for CP straight up works and the Heat should count themselves lucky to be able to make a trade like that. They have no choice but to try and go all in or close to it right now. Butler and their current cast of supporting players are going nowhere in the post season. If I’m Presti, I sit tight and wait. I don’t want to see CP suit up for the Thunder but I wouldn’t attach a bunch of valuable assets to him just to get rid of him. I would Maybe give up Denver’s first that OKC got for Grant but that is it.

Oklahoma City acquired Paul. He’s now Presti’s problem. If the terms aren’t agreeable to Miami, they won’t deal.

OKC will need to find another suitor to create leverage.

Who might that be?

At some point Miami has to look at their own situation and be realistic. Can they really get Bradly Beal if they take on Wall's contract? Is it worth it? Despite Paul being a bad contract, does he make their team better than the overpaid role players they would trade back to okc? I'm sure they preferred Westbrook to CP3. But if they refuse to even make a trade of bad contracts between them and okc, at some point they are cutting off their nose to spite their face.

I dunno. I wouldn’t take Paul’s contract if I were them. That contract is insane. I’d wait and see if I could tamper with a player, honestly. Dudes seem to want to play for them. Night life and all. No state taxes. It’s a huge advantage. See if I could trade dragic and Winslow/bam/herro and filler. I doubt it gets you Beal, but at the same time, who knows in this league right now? The players are choosing their destination more than ever. And more than they should have any right to, but it is what it is until it isn’t.

And maybe I’d be wrong, but it’s better than taking that god awful contract. Other than the minny trade oreojenkins posted, I haven’t seen one trade I’d make if I was in the other team’s spot.

But just because it seems like it’s the best option right this second doesn’t mean something better won’t come along.

[ThunderBolt]

Spoiler:

Oklahoma City acquired Paul. He’s now Presti’s problem. If the terms aren’t agreeable to Miami, they won’t deal.

OKC will need to find another suitor to create leverage.

Who might that be?

At some point Miami has to look at their own situation and be realistic. Can they really get Bradly Beal if they take on Wall's contract? Is it worth it? Despite Paul being a bad contract, does he make their team better than the overpaid role players they would trade back to okc? I'm sure they preferred Westbrook to CP3. But if they refuse to even make a trade of bad contracts between them and okc, at some point they are cutting off their nose to spite their face.

I dunno. I wouldn’t take Paul’s contract if I were them. That contract is insane. I’d wait and see if I could tamper with a player, honestly. Dudes seem to want to play for them. Night life and all. No state taxes. It’s a huge advantage. See if I could trade dragic and Winslow/bam/herro and filler. I doubt it gets you Beal, but at the same time, who knows in this league right now? The players are choosing their destination more than ever. And more than they should have any right to, but it is what it is until it isn’t.

And maybe I’d be wrong, but it’s better than taking that god awful contract. Other than the minny trade oreojenkins posted, I haven’t seen one trade I’d make if I was in the other team’s spot.

What star could the heat tamper with that a team would take back only expiring and no assets?

[jake_swivel]

Spoiler:

At some point Miami has to look at their own situation and be realistic. Can they really get Bradly Beal if they take on Wall's contract? Is it worth it? Despite Paul being a bad contract, does he make their team better than the overpaid role players they would trade back to okc? I'm sure they preferred Westbrook to CP3. But if they refuse to even make a trade of bad contracts between them and okc, at some point they are cutting off their nose to spite their face.

I dunno. I wouldn’t take Paul’s contract if I were them. That contract is insane. I’d wait and see if I could tamper with a player, honestly. Dudes seem to want to play for them. Night life and all. No state taxes. It’s a huge advantage. See if I could trade dragic and Winslow/bam/herro and filler. I doubt it gets you Beal, but at the same time, who knows in this league right now? The players are choosing their destination more than ever. And more than they should have any right to, but it is what it is until it isn’t.

And maybe I’d be wrong, but it’s better than taking that god awful contract. Other than the minny trade oreojenkins posted, I haven’t seen one trade I’d make if I was in the other team’s spot.

What star could the heat tamper with that a team would take back only expiring and no assets?

Dunno. This time last year, I wouldn’t have said Paul George would be tampered with. Who knows what the possibilities are. But I wouldn’t gamble on Paul’s contract because it leaves them with zero flexibility and he isn’t good enough by himself to tip them over the edge. Paul puts them at the 3rd seed and maybe the conference finals as their ceiling in my opinion.

[Old Man Game]

I feel like the issue for Miami and a lot of teams right now is they're going to be stuck in that 'not quite contending but definitely not tanking' rut but they already committed to that when they took on Jimmy Butler. Paul makes their team better and you just never know. The Raptors won with 1 superstar. Paul isn't what he once was but he's still really good. If I'm them I'd take my shot at it.

[Dadouv47]

CP3 can't blame the Thunder if the Heat doesn't really want him. Period

[Old Man Game]

Over on the GB the trolling about moving this team is really something else. I wonder, why is it no one talks about Memphis and New Orleans as losing their teams? Oh that's right, because trolls online confuse proportion of cool bars with media market size.

https://www.reddit.com/r/nba/comments/837czn/nba_media_market_size_rankings_2018/

[ThunderBolt]

Spoiler:

I dunno. I wouldn’t take Paul’s contract if I were them. That contract is insane. I’d wait and see if I could tamper with a player, honestly. Dudes seem to want to play for them. Night life and all. No state taxes. It’s a huge advantage. See if I could trade dragic and Winslow/bam/herro and filler. I doubt it gets you Beal, but at the same time, who knows in this league right now? The players are choosing their destination more than ever. And more than they should have any right to, but it is what it is until it isn’t.

And maybe I’d be wrong, but it’s better than taking that god awful contract. Other than the minny trade oreojenkins posted, I haven’t seen one trade I’d make if I was in the other team’s spot.

What star could the heat tamper with that a team would take back only expiring and no assets?

Dunno. This time last year, I wouldn’t have said Paul George would be tampered with. Who knows what the possibilities are. But I wouldn’t gamble on Paul’s contract because it leaves them with zero flexibility and he isn’t good enough by himself to tip them over the edge. Paul puts them at the 3rd seed and maybe the conference finals as their ceiling in my opinion.

Comparing the clippers situation to the heat is completely different. Miami doesn't have 5 first round picks to trade. I get that Miami doesn't want paul in a perfect world but they are in a really difficult situation. Despite his horrid contract, Miami's alternatives to improve are very limited.

For Miami you would have to have Butler tamper with a star. That star has to be willing to want to come to Miami. Then the franchise of the tampered star has to be willing to take back a horrible package for their star. Other than Washington I see no other option for the heat. Paul is a bad contract but his game on the floor isn't like Carmelo Anthony.

[ThunderBolt]

Over on the GB the trolling about moving this team is really something else. I wonder, why is it no one talks about Memphis and New Orleans as losing their teams? Oh that's right, because trolls online confuse proportion of cool bars with media market size.

https://www.reddit.com/r/nba/comments/837czn/nba_media_market_size_rankings_2018/

Its absolutely ridiculous. As a result of the harden trade, OKC may have missed out on a dynasty. Instead they had a good run of playoffs a decade with great support from the fans and tons of national media attention. Now the inevitable rebuild is happening and we are loaded with assets. People want to twist the narrative to the idea that we are the New York Knicks in a small market. It's just trolling. We aren't going any where and key arena still sucks.

[Balkman32]

http://tradenba.com/trades/S18lvcuZB

This deal would get all 3 team under the Lux tax. All are either over or very close to being over. It would also give Miami some extra $4 m in wiggle room against the hard cap. The Thunder would wave JR Smith. This deal would have to happen by Monday.

The Thunder getting Dragic and Dellavedova in this deal would be ideal for our point guard rotation next year.

They would then have Schröder and Waiters on the roster for a combined $27 million. They would be guys that they would rather move than bring to camp.

[jake_swivel]

Spoiler:

What star could the heat tamper with that a team would take back only expiring and no assets?

Dunno. This time last year, I wouldn’t have said Paul George would be tampered with. Who knows what the possibilities are. But I wouldn’t gamble on Paul’s contract because it leaves them with zero flexibility and he isn’t good enough by himself to tip them over the edge. Paul puts them at the 3rd seed and maybe the conference finals as their ceiling in my opinion.

Comparing the clippers situation to the heat is completely different. Miami doesn't have 5 first round picks to trade. I get that Miami doesn't want paul in a perfect world but they are in a really difficult situation. Despite his horrid contract, Miami's alternatives to improve are very limited.

For Miami you would have to have Butler tamper with a star. That star has to be willing to want to come to Miami. Then the franchise of the tampered star has to be willing to take back a horrible package for their star. Other than Washington I see no other option for the heat. Paul is a bad contract but his game on the floor isn't like Carmelo Anthony.

At the very least, I'd drag this into the season if I was Miami. Aside from missing training camp, what do they lose in trying to extract assets if there aren't any other suitors? That way, they get to see how he's aged over the offseason. They see if he gets injured. They see if he throws a massive temper tantrum and tanks his value even more than it is right now. Is the OKC management willing to take him into the season, given that a significant injury leaves them on the hook for the whole contract?

I'd say, "Paul isn't enough by himself. I need assets for a future trade. I have no reason to make the trade right this moment, whereas OKC seems to want to hit the reset button right now and make a clean start without any drama. How strong a stomach do you have, Mr. Bennett?"

Then I'd wait to see what kind of chaos happens in the season and hope for the best.

[slick_watts]

OKC only gave up a protected first (which they will now likely get back) and got a serviceable player in return for Melo. CP has more left in the tank than Melo did, he still has some value despite his warts.

okc gave up a pick and got back a cancer no other team wanted. atlanta was trying to get rid of dennis schroder for nothing and ate a huge chunk of his deal just to get him away.

we'll disagree on this. but there's no chance chris paul plays or is on the roster if he doesn't want to be and sam presti will end up taking whatever deal he can. ultimately, it amounts to getting out of westbrook's contract, which looked impossible just a week ago so it's a win. giving up two picks to get out of chris paul's deal would be incredible. i think you guys are valuing picks TOO much at this point.

[jake_swivel]

http://tradenba.com/trades/S18lvcuZB

This deal would get all 3 team under the Lux tax. All are either over or very close to being over. It would also give Miami some extra $4 m in wiggle room against the hard cap. The Thunder would wave JR Smith. This deal would have to happen by Monday.

The Thunder getting Dragic and Dellavedova in this deal would be ideal for our point guard rotation next year.

They would then have Schröder and Waiters on the roster for a combined $27 million. They would be guys that they would rather move than bring to camp.

What's in it for Cleveland? Kelly Olynyk? I'd pay JR's 2 million guaranteed and take the savings, if I'm them. Worth more than Olynyk.

[Old Man Game]

Over on the GB the trolling about moving this team is really something else. I wonder, why is it no one talks about Memphis and New Orleans as losing their teams? Oh that's right, because trolls online confuse proportion of cool bars with media market size.

https://www.reddit.com/r/nba/comments/837czn/nba_media_market_size_rankings_2018/

Its absolutely ridiculous. As a result of the harden trade, OKC may have missed out on a dynasty. Instead they had a good run of playoffs a decade with great support from the fans and tons of national media attention. Now the inevitable rebuild is happening and we are loaded with assets. People want to twist the narrative to the idea that we are the New York Knicks in a small market. It's just trolling. We aren't going any where and key arena still sucks.

Some guy on the 'what's Westbrook's legacy in OKC' thread over there literally said Russ wouldn't get a statue because our team might not even be here in FIVE years.

Johnny Bench literally has a statue in bricktown despite Oklahoma never having a MLB team at all let alone one he played for just because he was from Oklahoma (not even Oklahoma City specifically). Pretty sure Russ is getting that statue one way or another.

[jake_swivel]

OKC only gave up a protected first (which they will now likely get back) and got a serviceable player in return for Melo. CP has more left in the tank than Melo did, he still has some value despite his warts.

okc gave up a pick and got back a cancer no other team wanted. atlanta was trying to get rid of dennis schroder for nothing and ate a huge chunk of his deal just to get him away.

we'll disagree on this. but there's no chance chris paul plays or is on the roster if he doesn't want to be and sam presti will end up taking whatever deal he can. ultimately, it amounts to getting out of westbrook's contract, which looked impossible just a week ago so it's a win. giving up two picks to get out of chris paul's deal would be incredible. i think you guys are valuing picks TOO much at this point.

Definitely agree on this point.

In all likelihood, the first couple clippers picks, the denver pick, and the last miami pick (given its protection) have very little value. They are either likely to be late firsts which can be bought for $3-4 million most years or are 6 to 10 years away with protection that pretty much guarantees it to be out of the lotto.

I also think those in the, "We'll just send him home and pay him $120 million" camp are underplaying how much that limits options for future moves. And how unlikely an organization is to pay $120 million for a complete non-contributer.