2018 Offseason Thread

Post #3921 » by **slick_watts** » Sun Oct 7, 2018 1:19 am

has anyone reported on the current thunder coaching staff pecking order? who has taken adrian griffin's responsibilities? griffin is known as a defensive wunderkid assistant coach. maybe losing him doesn't have a negative impact, or maybe it has a small one, but it won't have a positive one imo.

Post #3922 » by **bondom34** » Sun Oct 7, 2018 1:27 am

https://streamable.com/36xri

Post #3923 » by **slick_watts** » Sun Oct 7, 2018 1:50 am

bondom34 wrote:https://streamable.com/36xri

what is this place that has elote and egg rolls in the same restaurant.

RalphSampsonJr · Post #3924 » by **RalphSampsonJr** » Sun Oct 7, 2018 4:28 am

bondom34 wrote:https://streamable.com/36xri

And some of you want to trade this man?!

Kizz Fastfists · Post #3925 » by **Kizz Fastfists** » Sun Oct 7, 2018 4:42 am

RalphSampsonJr wrote: And some of you want to trade this man?!

Want is not the correct word. Willing to for a top 10 player like Jimmy Butler, yup. You aren't getting OKC out of the first round without a significant roster upgrade, although a coaching upgrade could also potentially get them out of the first round, although that is unlikely as the roster stands with Roberson's injury timeline and how long it would take for them to make a coaching change. A coaching upgrade AND an upgrade to Butler could challenge GS and would put them ahead of Houston.

Minny isn't moving Butler without moving Dieng. Dieng would be a solid replacement for Adams, especially on the defensive end. Butler would be such a significant upgrade at SG, along with giving OKC three top 15 players, that it would drastically improve the team. Would you rather have Adams/Noel and Ferguson/Abrines/Schroder/TLC OR Dieng/Noel and Butler/Schroder/TLC? We know Schroder will get a lot of playing time along side Russ since he has been told he'll get starter minutes so the ability to have two of Russ, Schroder, Butler and PG on the court at all times would keep the offense going with TLC and Grant out there. Imagine the defense to close out games with Russ, Butler, PG, Patterson and Noel/Dieng. That is a lot of length and quality defense along with guys that can provide offense.

Post #3926 » by **bondom34** » Sun Oct 7, 2018 5:13 am

All the red flags with Butler make me leery. And the proposed deals earlier itt are way more than Minny's getting.

RalphSampsonJr · Post #3927 » by **RalphSampsonJr** » Sun Oct 7, 2018 5:27 am

Kizz Fastfists wrote:
RalphSampsonJr wrote: And some of you want to trade this man?!

Want is not the correct word. Willing to for a top 10 player like Jimmy Butler, yup. You aren't getting OKC out of the first round without a significant roster upgrade, although a coaching upgrade could also potentially get them out of the first round, although that is unlikely as the roster stands with Roberson's injury timeline and how long it would take for them to make a coaching change. A coaching upgrade AND an upgrade to Butler could challenge GS and would put them ahead of Houston.

Minny isn't moving Butler without moving Dieng. Dieng would be a solid replacement for Adams, especially on the defensive end. Butler would be such a significant upgrade at SG, along with giving OKC three top 15 players, that it would drastically improve the team. Would you rather have Adams/Noel and Ferguson/Abrines/Schroder/TLC OR Dieng/Noel and Butler/Schroder/TLC? We know Schroder will get a lot of playing time along side Russ since he has been told he'll get starter minutes so the ability to have two of Russ, Schroder, Butler and PG on the court at all times would keep the offense going with TLC and Grant out there. Imagine the defense to close out games with Russ, Butler, PG, Patterson and Noel/Dieng. That is a lot of length and quality defense along with guys that can provide offense.

On paper it sounds awesome. Until it doesnt work and he leaves next season and okc have given up three long term pieces for nothing.
Dieng is not a solid replacement for Adams that is a silly thing to say

Kizz Fastfists · Post #3928 » by **Kizz Fastfists** » Sun Oct 7, 2018 5:29 am

bondom34 wrote:All the red flags with Butler make me leery. And the proposed deals earlier itt are way more than Minny's getting.

There are some red flags, but I would consider Butler less of a flight risk than PG was when they made that trade. Butler has said he wants a 5 year deal and OKC would be a contender that could give him that. That is assuming he actually values winning as much as he is saying with his claim that his issue with Wiggins and KAT is they aren't committed to winning.

If you consider it a high risk and high reward move it is worth the risk, assuming it would be an option. The ceiling of the team would be much higher with Russ, Butler and PG than it is with Russ, PG and Adams.

Post #3929 » by **bondom34** » Sun Oct 7, 2018 5:35 am

Kizz Fastfists wrote:
bondom34 wrote:All the red flags with Butler make me leery. And the proposed deals earlier itt are way more than Minny's getting.

There are some red flags, but I would consider Butler less of a flight risk than PG was when they made that trade. Butler has said he wants a 5 year deal and OKC would be a contender that could give him that. That is assuming he actually values winning as much as he is saying with his claim that his issue with Wiggins and KAT is they aren't committed to winning.

If you consider it a high risk and high reward move it is worth the risk, assuming it would be an option. The ceiling of the team would be much higher with Russ, Butler and PG than it is with Russ, PG and Adams.

From all reports, no teams are willing to give 5 years. And I wouldn't want that contract. He's ready to fall off before then, and that offer is way too much. Miami won't offer Richardson, there's no reason to give up anything good.

RalphSampsonJr · Post #3930 » by **RalphSampsonJr** » Sun Oct 7, 2018 5:44 am

Seems crazy to me. Jimmy has had problems with both teams hes been on and you want to throw away the future plus a center who does everything no one else wants to do in support of your franchise player?!

Kizz Fastfists · Post #3931 » by **Kizz Fastfists** » Sun Oct 7, 2018 5:49 am

RalphSampsonJr wrote:Seems crazy to me. Jimmy has had problems with both teams hes been on and you want to throw away the future plus a center who does everything no one else wants to do in support of your franchise player?!

I guess it is better to stay the course and continue to go out in the first round, at best.

RalphSampsonJr · Post #3932 » by **RalphSampsonJr** » Sun Oct 7, 2018 5:58 am

So the fact that Melos gone and we have a respectable back up 1 and 5 means nothing? Im nk fool i know okc wont win this year. Getting jimmy may get you a lil closer but not close enough where you wanna throw alot at minny for him. Minny asked for ben simmons back. They want richardson Adebayo and a first rounder for Jimmy. Sam isnt silly enough to give up Adams and whatever else

Kizz Fastfists · Post #3933 » by **Kizz Fastfists** » Sun Oct 7, 2018 6:19 am

Schroder will be worse than Melo was if Schroder is playing significant minutes at SG, which is the expectation. A 6'0 PG trying to defend SGs, OUCH!!! That isn't going to make OKC better. Sure, Noel is an upgrade to Dakari, but is that significant enough to mean anything given that Adams will play 32ish MPG at center? I will actually be surprised if Schroder gets more than 5 MPG as the "PG" when Russ is healthy with Felton being the backup PG and Schroder playing SG. OKC is going to give up a LOT of points when Schroder is pretending to be a SG.

RalphSampsonJr · Post #3934 » by **RalphSampsonJr** » Sun Oct 7, 2018 6:56 am

Kizz Fastfists wrote:Schroder will be worse than Melo was if Schroder is playing significant minutes at SG, which is the expectation. A 6'0 PG trying to defend SGs, OUCH!!! That isn't going to make OKC better. Sure, Noel is an upgrade to Dakari, but is that significant enough to mean anything given that Adams will play 32ish MPG at center? I will actually be surprised if Schroder gets more than 5 MPG as the "PG" when Russ is healthy with Felton being the backup PG and Schroder playing SG. OKC is going to give up a LOT of points when Schroder is pretending to be a SG.

Sooo 2nd unit offense and defensive rebounding when Adams sits was 2 of our major weakness' last year. Both maybe resolved with the addition of Dennis and Nerlens yet you want to just focus on Dennis playing the 2?

Post #3935 » by **slick_watts** » Sun Oct 7, 2018 11:34 am

yeah i don't get it. westbrook is 30. does anyone think replacing adams with butler doesn't improve the team? what are we waiting for if we're not taking obvious upgrades?

what happened to 'scared money don't make none'? or does that only apply in hindsight?

AirInTheLoop · Post #3936 » by **AirInTheLoop** » Sun Oct 7, 2018 11:08 pm

Kizz Fastfists wrote:Schroder will be worse than Melo was if Schroder is playing significant minutes at SG, which is the expectation. A 6'0 PG trying to defend SGs, OUCH!!! That isn't going to make OKC better. Sure, Noel is an upgrade to Dakari, but is that significant enough to mean anything given that Adams will play 32ish MPG at center? I will actually be surprised if Schroder gets more than 5 MPG as the "PG" when Russ is healthy with Felton being the backup PG and Schroder playing SG. OKC is going to give up a LOT of points when Schroder is pretending to be a SG.

I mean....
1. No one is worse than Melo at defense.

2. We've seen plenty of 6 foot guards adequately defend the 2. If you remember the early days of KD, the most effective defenders against him and the thing that bothered him the most was actually smaller players. If it became a problem, Donovan has shown he can adjust to switches like that.

3. Noel and Adams will most likely be playing split minutes at the center position. He is unquestionably good enough to and IMO has demonstrated in the pre-season why this is true. If we need more, OKC is more like the 76ers than the Mavs in terms of pacing and how players are used.

4. Im also not sure why you think Dennis will only get 5MPG as a Pg. They brought him in to run the secondary and they will need the defense and athleticism of the younger 2/3s along side him.

5. OKC giving up "a lot of points when Dennis is playing SG" is a bit silly. Firstly 3/4ths of his minutes will be at the point. Secondly, OKC has enough of a defensive rotation to mask any defensive issues that may arrive. I forget who it was who pointed these things out, but i was reading some past posts and someone did a really good job of explaining the rotations and switches they can make that would "mask" this issue.

RalphSampsonJr · Post #3937 » by **RalphSampsonJr** » Mon Oct 8, 2018 12:14 am

AirInTheLoop wrote:
Kizz Fastfists wrote:Schroder will be worse than Melo was if Schroder is playing significant minutes at SG, which is the expectation. A 6'0 PG trying to defend SGs, OUCH!!! That isn't going to make OKC better. Sure, Noel is an upgrade to Dakari, but is that significant enough to mean anything given that Adams will play 32ish MPG at center? I will actually be surprised if Schroder gets more than 5 MPG as the "PG" when Russ is healthy with Felton being the backup PG and Schroder playing SG. OKC is going to give up a LOT of points when Schroder is pretending to be a SG.

I mean....
1. No one is worse than Melo at defense.

2. We've seen plenty of 6 foot guards adequately defend the 2. If you remember the early days of KD, the most effective defenders against him and the thing that bothered him the most was actually smaller players. If it became a problem, Donovan has shown he can adjust to switches like that.

3. Noel and Adams will most likely be playing split minutes at the center position. He is unquestionably good enough to and IMO has demonstrated in the pre-season why this is true. If we need more, OKC is more like the 76ers than the Mavs in terms of pacing and how players are used.

4. Im also not sure why you think Dennis will only get 5MPG as a Pg. They brought him in to run the secondary and they will need the defense and athleticism of the younger 2/3s along side him.

5. OKC giving up "a lot of points when Dennis is playing SG" is a bit silly. Firstly 3/4ths of his minutes will be at the point. Secondly, OKC has enough of a defensive rotation to mask any defensive issues that may arrive. I forget who it was who pointed these things out, but i was reading some past posts and someone did a really good job of explaining the rotations and switches they can make that would "mask" this issue.

6. Why does Kizz think Dennis is going to be defending the 2? If him and Westbrook are on i think they are all smart enough to have Russ gaurd the 2..

thekaoswithin · Post #3938 » by **thekaoswithin** » Mon Oct 8, 2018 12:22 am

I know Russ isn't the best defender, but couldn't we just stick him on the bigger guard and Dennis on the smaller one? Seems like the best of many bad solutions.

Kizz Fastfists · Post #3939 » by **Kizz Fastfists** » Mon Oct 8, 2018 2:35 am

AirInTheLoop wrote:5. OKC giving up "a lot of points when Dennis is playing SG" is a bit silly. Firstly 3/4ths of his minutes will be at the point. Secondly, OKC has enough of a defensive rotation to mask any defensive issues that may arrive. I forget who it was who pointed these things out, but i was reading some past posts and someone did a really good job of explaining the rotations and switches they can make that would "mask" this issue.

How many MPG is he going to play? Russ will play around 34. That leaves 14 for Schroder at PG. Is Schroder only playing 19 MPG? Schroder sad he will be playing starter minutes AND finishing games. That means 30-32 MPG. That means, assuming Felton gets glued to the bench, he is only playing HALF his minutes at PG not 75%. If Felton gets the same 16 MPG he got last year that doesn't leave any minutes at PG for Schroder when Russ is healthy. Unless you think Felton will be playing SG with Schroder at PG. Felton and Russ only played about 5 MPG together last year. Assuming Schroder just takes over Felton's role he'll get 17 MPG with 5 MPG playing with Russ. Russ played 36.4 MPG last year, a career high and I expect that to come back down to 34.5 this year which is what he had played the previous 3 seasons.

The idea that Schroder will play 75% of his minutes at PG either means you expect Russ to miss a LOT of time? You expect Schroder to play 20 MPG or less? You expect Schroder to be the PG when playing with Russ? Which one of those do you expect? If you are going to tell me that Russ is going to have knee complications and miss 45 games so Schroder will play 75% of his minutes at PG then I'll disagree that Russ will miss that much time, but I'll understand how you came to your conclusion.

Kizz Fastfists · Post #3940 » by **Kizz Fastfists** » Mon Oct 8, 2018 2:37 am

thekaoswithin wrote:I know Russ isn't the best defender, but couldn't we just stick him on the bigger guard and Dennis on the smaller one? Seems like the best of many bad solutions.

They could, but that doesn't change the fact that you still have a massive mismatch on that end of the floor. It really doesn't matter who guards who since OKC will switch everything and the other team will end up with the matchup they want on every possession just like last year when they targeted Melo.