10/21 - POSTGAME | Oklahoma City Thunder (87) - (96) Utah Jazz

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Player(s) of the Game

Paul George | 22 PTS, (8-19 FG, 3-9 3P), 5 REB, 5 STL
4
22%
Carmelo Anthony | 26 PTS, (12-26 FG, 2-8 3P)
5
28%
Russell Westbrook | 6 PTS, (2-11 FG), 13 REB, 9 AST
1
6%
Raymond Felton | 8 PTS, (3-4 FG, 2-2 3P)
6
33%
Other (specify below)
2
11%
 
Total votes: 18

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Re: 10/21 - POSTGAME | Oklahoma City Thunder (87) - (96) Utah Jazz 

Post#41 » by Old Man Game » Sun Oct 22, 2017 4:20 am

Knrstz wrote:
Old Man Game wrote:
slick_watts wrote:
that's definitely part of it imo. it's not like our offense with billy has ever flowed well. but forcing the ball to both those guys with everyone else watching has made it look disjointed.

a carmelo iso is worth about the same as a kanter post-up, by the way. carmelo may be a more willing passer, but he has not shown that to this point.

we kept doing the pnp with the slip screen that westbrook tried it late in the game one handed, no-look (for no-reason) and rubio easily sniffed it out. this kind of hot dogging with his new 'star teammates' is unnecessary and i think that's also part of the issue.


I try to avoid getting trying to read a player's mind, but Russ to me just looks like he's trying (to a fault) to prove the dopey post KD narrative wrong that he can't play with other stars. He's taken himself out of his own game a lot with over passing and trying to force passes that aren't there.

He did tonight for sure. He looked amazing in game one. He just didn’t get in to a rhythm tonight. Last year in a game like this he would have shot his way back in to it. Tonight was just weird.


Even in Game 1 there was that play where he had an open lane to the rim and turned around a flung a pass to George. Almost led to a turnover but George managed to gather it and score a layup himself.
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Re: 10/21 - POSTGAME | Oklahoma City Thunder (87) - (96) Utah Jazz 

Post#42 » by spearsy23 » Sun Oct 22, 2017 4:23 am

I'd feel a lot better about chalking this up as just a bad game, but I honestly don't feel like there were any fewer issues in the Knicks game, they're just terrible. Of course Russ being Russ means we win this one, but that's not going to cut it against Houston or San Antonio.
“If you're getting stops and you're making threes and the other team's not scoring, that's when you're going to see a huge point difference there,” coach Billy Donovan said.
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Re: 10/21 - POSTGAME | Oklahoma City Thunder (87) - (96) Utah Jazz 

Post#43 » by Osirus89 » Sun Oct 22, 2017 4:26 am

Take Russ out of the voting!! :lol:

I really thought we could have pulled this one off, but I didn't figure on Russ forgetting to leave his hotel room for the game tonight....

That has to be the worst i've seen him play in a minute. At least this year when he has games like that the team doesn't automatically lose by 30+. He doesn't usually have two terrible games in a row so I hope they can bounce back against Minny, but that team is WAY different than they were last year.
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Re: 10/21 - POSTGAME | Oklahoma City Thunder (87) - (96) Utah Jazz 

Post#44 » by ThunderBolt » Sun Oct 22, 2017 4:30 am

It’s all about coaching, plain and simple. Most of the time we have historically outplayed Donovan’s subpar coaching. Well probably get there at some point in the season. I just don’t see how Donovan makes these guys better. How can he look Russ in the eye and tell him that he’s giving him the best chance to succeed when he has the backup pg on the floor with him?
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Re: 10/21 - POSTGAME | Oklahoma City Thunder (87) - (96) Utah Jazz 

Post#45 » by ThunderBolt » Sun Oct 22, 2017 4:54 am

Adams having five rebounds in 33 minutes is unacceptable.
bisme37 wrote:If there were magnets in basketballs so strong they changed the path of the ball as it flew through the air, wouldn't the ball then stick magnetically to the rim when it got there?
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Re: 10/21 - POSTGAME | Oklahoma City Thunder (87) - (96) Utah Jazz 

Post#46 » by NaturalThunder » Sun Oct 22, 2017 5:12 am

spearsy23 wrote:
Rotten Apple wrote:
Gobert owned the paint tho.

I thought he was rather unimpressive tonight. no blocks, and a lot of our missed layups weren't even contested by him. We just flat sucked so maybe he didn't even need to dominate.

Which, in hindsight, is why this loss doesn't bother me too much. I mean it does suck that we were pretty thoroughly dominated, but Gobert and the stingy Jazz defense wasn't the main reason we struggled so badly on offense tonight. We missed a ton of good looks tonight. I mean Utah's defense had something to do with it, but we just missed an inordinate number of good looks tonight.

Now, the underlying issues behind why we missed so many other shots is worrisome. There was way too much iso-ball. The rotations and lineups were atrocious. Ultimately, the biggest reason this team may not win many more games than we did last year is because Billy Donovan is a bad NBA head coach.
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Re: 10/21 - POSTGAME | Oklahoma City Thunder (87) - (96) Utah Jazz 

Post#47 » by Cappy_Smurf » Sun Oct 22, 2017 6:04 am

Hi thunder dudes, Jazz fan here. I know some of you don't want to give Utah too much credit tonight, but FWIW, IMO our D looked better tonight than it has since Gobert first took over the starting center position, and they were historically good that first year. I know pretty much nobody considers this team on the same tier as OKC/HOU/SAN, but they may prove to be a lot closer than people think.

Anyway, even though OKC is going to take some time to jell, no doubt you guys are in for a great season. Other than my Jazz, there's nothing I'd like to see more than your guys knocking cupcake out of the playoffs. That would be epic. :D

GG
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Re: 10/21 - POSTGAME | Oklahoma City Thunder (87) - (96) Utah Jazz 

Post#48 » by bondom34 » Sun Oct 22, 2017 6:13 am

Cappy_Smurf wrote:Hi thunder dudes, Jazz fan here. I know some of you don't want to give Utah too much credit tonight, but FWIW, IMO our D looked better tonight than it has since Gobert first took over the starting center position, and they were historically good that first year. I know pretty much nobody considers this team on the same tier as OKC/HOU/SAN, but they may prove to be a lot closer than people think.

Anyway, even though OKC is going to take some time to jell, no doubt you guys are in for a great season. Other than my Jazz, there's nothing I'd like to see more than your guys knocking cupcake out of the playoffs. That would be epic. :D

GG

GG Cappy, honestly rooting for you guys too after losing G. You know I'm a big Gobert fan, OKC kinda stunk it up but Utah assisted in that big time. Good luck the rest of the way.
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Re: 10/21 - POSTGAME | Oklahoma City Thunder (87) - (96) Utah Jazz 

Post#49 » by spearsy23 » Sun Oct 22, 2017 6:22 am

NaturalThunder wrote:
spearsy23 wrote:
Rotten Apple wrote:
Gobert owned the paint tho.

I thought he was rather unimpressive tonight. no blocks, and a lot of our missed layups weren't even contested by him. We just flat sucked so maybe he didn't even need to dominate.

Which, in hindsight, is why this loss doesn't bother me too much. I mean it does suck that we were pretty thoroughly dominated, but Gobert and the stingy Jazz defense wasn't the main reason we struggled so badly on offense tonight. We missed a ton of good looks tonight. I mean Utah's defense had something to do with it, but we just missed an inordinate number of good looks tonight.

Now, the underlying issues behind why we missed so many other shots is worrisome. There was way too much iso-ball. The rotations and lineups were atrocious. Ultimately, the biggest reason this team may not win many more games than we did last year is because Billy Donovan is a bad NBA head coach.

I disagree. we missed a few good shots of course, you don't score 20 points in 20 minutes without that, but we missed a lot more poor to downright awful ones.
“If you're getting stops and you're making threes and the other team's not scoring, that's when you're going to see a huge point difference there,” coach Billy Donovan said.
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Re: 10/21 - POSTGAME | Oklahoma City Thunder (87) - (96) Utah Jazz 

Post#50 » by getrichordie » Sun Oct 22, 2017 6:27 am

Let's not overreact guys. We knew there would be struggles at first. A lot of new pieces. Give it time.
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Re: 10/21 - POSTGAME | Oklahoma City Thunder (87) - (96) Utah Jazz 

Post#51 » by bondom34 » Sun Oct 22, 2017 7:16 am

I'd be mad but Penn State killed.

Thought on the bit I saw were in agreement with Justin and others. Same as game 1 but then Russ was better and took over late. Rotations are worse than ever, too much settling for jumpers, no ball movement, too much Grant and not enough Roberson. Bad likely again tomorrow.
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Re: 10/21 - POSTGAME | Oklahoma City Thunder (87) - (96) Utah Jazz 

Post#52 » by RalphSampsonJr » Sun Oct 22, 2017 7:45 am

Knrstz wrote:Adams having five rebounds in 33 minutes is unacceptable.


Why?
He had 3 offensive the same as Gobert.
You think Russ gets 13 boards cuz he's under the rim battling?! People worry far too much about defensive rebounds. Adams kept Rudy off the glass just as much as he did. The jazz only got 3 more rebounds than the thunder. 7 offensive the whole game.
Adams may not grab the board but he's not letting the other team grab it either
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Re: 10/21 - POSTGAME | Oklahoma City Thunder (87) - (96) Utah Jazz 

Post#53 » by Bergmaniac » Sun Oct 22, 2017 10:15 am

Utah is such a well coached team, Donovan should take notes.

Melo is such a black hole. He really needs to pass more and stop forcing so much. A few times he was swarmed by 3 Jazz players in the paint and still tried to force a shot. Westbrook was obviously atrocious, hopefully it's one-off. But he needs to stop trying to force the ball to George and Melo so much and do the right play. Getting them open 3s is good, getting them the ball so they can force an ISO long 2 is not.
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Re: 10/21 - POSTGAME | Oklahoma City Thunder (87) - (96) Utah Jazz 

Post#54 » by Pillendreher » Sun Oct 22, 2017 10:29 am

spearsy23 wrote:
Rotten Apple wrote:
spearsy23 wrote:And we interviewed him two years ago but went with dumbass instead.

I don't believe that you had the chance to hire Messina and hired Donovan. I don't believe you, you're lying to me.

Read on Twitter


Granted that just says he is on the list, but he interviewed I'm almost certain.


Nah man. Afaik, we didn't interview anybody else. Don't you remember us accusing Presti of nepotism because he hired Donovan, his buddy, without even really considering any other candidates?
"I don't know of any player that, when the shot goes up, he doesn't want it to go in," Donovan said
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Re: 10/21 - POSTGAME | Oklahoma City Thunder (87) - (96) Utah Jazz 

Post#55 » by spearsy23 » Sun Oct 22, 2017 10:40 am

Pillendreher wrote:
spearsy23 wrote:
Rotten Apple wrote:I don't believe that you had the chance to hire Messina and hired Donovan. I don't believe you, you're lying to me.

Read on Twitter


Granted that just says he is on the list, but he interviewed I'm almost certain.


Nah man. Afaik, we didn't interview anybody else. Don't you remember us accusing Presti of nepotism because he hired Donovan, his buddy, without even really considering any other candidates?

He definitely interviewed others, they just were token interviews.
“If you're getting stops and you're making threes and the other team's not scoring, that's when you're going to see a huge point difference there,” coach Billy Donovan said.
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Re: 10/21 - POSTGAME | Oklahoma City Thunder (87) - (96) Utah Jazz 

Post#56 » by Pillendreher » Sun Oct 22, 2017 12:15 pm

I initially wanted to write a longer text bashing Donovan, but that just seemed like too much work...

-Russ with a terrible game. He was just forcing the issue every time down the court. Erratic on defense, forced passes, forced shots. He was very clearly in his own head trying to prove to people that he can play differently.
-This 'Just let Carmelo shoot after a trash start' thing is getting old already. Over the first two games, he's taken as many shots per 100 poss. as Russ last season. That's not what his role should be at all. He needs to take better shots and has got to stop pulling an Oladipo: 42.8 TS% in the first half, 60.5 TS% in the 2nd half of the first two games.
-We need to play with way more poise. This 'Let's slow the pace down, act like we might run a set' thing is killing our flow offensively. Everything's so slow and without any real plan and scheme.
-Donovan has got to be **** kidding me. It's like he is completely blind to the strengths of his players and wants to accentuate our weaknesses. This Grant in smallball **** has got to stop. This going all out with terrible defenders **** has got to stop. This 'Let's never run the PnR and just pass around the perimeter without actually moving off the ball' has got to stop.
-Our defensive activity in the passing lanes was still good. George especially disprupted so many passes.

What we clearly lacked in my opinion was a clear cut plan. 'Just play ball while I **** up lineups' is not gonna cut it this year. Donovan has got to go all 'challenge accepted' every time one of us dares him to pull some stupid ****.

Hopefully they'll bounce back tonight and I won't stay up till 3:30 am just to watch them playing bad.
"I don't know of any player that, when the shot goes up, he doesn't want it to go in," Donovan said
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Re: RE: Re: 10/21 - POSTGAME | Oklahoma City Thunder (87) - (96) Utah Jazz 

Post#57 » by Old Man Game » Sun Oct 22, 2017 12:26 pm

spearsy23 wrote:
Pillendreher wrote:
spearsy23 wrote:
Read on Twitter


Granted that just says he is on the list, but he interviewed I'm almost certain.


Nah man. Afaik, we didn't interview anybody else. Don't you remember us accusing Presti of nepotism because he hired Donovan, his buddy, without even really considering any other candidates?

He definitely interviewed others, they just were token interviews.

Are you sure about that? Because I agree with Pillendreher. I thought that we didn't interview anyone else. I could swear that there was piece written at the time that said as much.

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Re: 10/21 - POSTGAME | Oklahoma City Thunder (87) - (96) Utah Jazz 

Post#58 » by ThunderBolt » Sun Oct 22, 2017 12:51 pm

RalphSampsonJr wrote:
Knrstz wrote:Adams having five rebounds in 33 minutes is unacceptable.


Why?
He had 3 offensive the same as Gobert.
You think Russ gets 13 boards cuz he's under the rim battling?! People worry far too much about defensive rebounds. Adams kept Rudy off the glass just as much as he did. The jazz only got 3 more rebounds than the thunder. 7 offensive the whole game.
Adams may not grab the board but he's not letting the other team grab it either


Except Adams isn’t under the basket. He’s out on the perimeter. There were multiple times he’s gets pulled away from the basket. I saw Abrines on Gobert. That’s not completely our fault because Adams is covering for other guys but he shouldn’t be the one contesting threes.
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Re: 10/21 - POSTGAME | Oklahoma City Thunder (87) - (96) Utah Jazz 

Post#59 » by hardenASG13 » Sun Oct 22, 2017 1:05 pm

At least it's awesome that there is another game today. It's not pretty yet, but okc is incredibly fun to watch this year with so much to sort out. When they click it's going to be great.
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Re: 10/21 - POSTGAME | Oklahoma City Thunder (87) - (96) Utah Jazz 

Post#60 » by Mick75 » Sun Oct 22, 2017 1:32 pm

Ugly as xxxx! Man, it was really hard to watch this. D was ok at times but offensively we had no clue, no plan.

I have to fully agree with Pillendreher...

Let's hope they come back with some more focus.

Before I forget: fire Billy! He seems to have zero clue about coaching...

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