What happens if George leaves this year?

[Atomic Punk]

Honestly, who cares if it’s revisionist history? There weren’t many people that thought Oladipo would take be jump. Sabonis is a little surprising but not shocking. The bigger issue is how we proceed moving forward rather than people trying validate their opinions. Is it really that big of an ego boost to be right?

challenging revisionist history isn't about being right or wrong, it's about integrity.

With regards to both Oladipo and Sabonis, neither was brought on to be “franchise” players. Dipo was likely intended to be the sixth man and Sabonis was a nice front court prospect. When KD bolted, everything changed, including roles and expectations for players. I’m not sure we are really even talking about revisionist history here, KD effectively altered the time-line and skewed reality when he left.

[bondom34]

Actually no, not really. First there are more than that and second most of us never thought he'd stay. We were happy to have another all star level talent.

But again, if you see this issue on twitter and not RealGM why don't you go to twitter? Because rambling about it here is just misdirected anger and wasting time.

am i taking up precious message board real estate or something? this is a basketball discussion board, no? the title of this topic is 'what happens if george leaves this year?', right?

my comments on the optimism of thunder fans here and in general on the prospects of retaining paul george appear appropriate and on topic. again, maybe i'm wrong about this board, who knows. i recall plenty of optimism for george staying though, and even throughout the year interpreting his statements, etc.

You've consistently said you didn't think much of Sabonis a year ago and didn't think he was a good prospect. So a salary dump and a nothing prospect is now "off-base" to your thoughts that they weren't very good. OK.

yes, i did not think he was a good prospect. he had a terrible rookie season offensively. he's proven otherwise this year, which necessarily adjusts the optics of the trade. oladipo's ascension as well. did i or, really, any thunder fan predict this would happen with those players? no. does that change what has happened? no. so i'm not sure what my personal opinion of oladipo or sabonis has anything to do with this.

i do not think the majority of thunder fans even on blogs and more 'intelligent' platforms viewed this as a one year shot.

I mean the only reason you really liked OKC in the first place was Durant and your fandom of him personally. Now all their fans hate him and you remain. It must be terribly difficult.

what does this have to do with the topic of discussion in this thread?

1. No, you're not. But you're not really achieving anything by talking to a bunch of people who felt that way and telling them how a bunch of randoms on twitter were wrong. You're not arguing or debating with anyone here, so you're not changing anyone's mind. It's preaching to the choir.

2. So revisionist history is what you're saying.

3. Your feelings on tanking may be related to your views on the team and general reasoning for even liking them in the first place, given they are no longer around. A Durant fan remaining an OKC fan now is a little odd.

But the tanking vs not thing is so far beyond old now I'd rather literally talk to a wall or debate Kobe vs. Lebron with Kobe fans. It's boring and old.

[Atomic Punk]

That being said, I’m fine with what they did, it was different, it was a risk, and it was better than just trying to live in the middle (not the worst place to be, but not the best).

i'm fine with it as the package deal of extending westbrook to the DPE. my opposition of the offseason is mostly centered on the westbrook extension. presti did what he had to do flowing from that point.

i think it's fair to say though that the perception of the trade has shifted already, and will shift even more if george does leave, and oladipo + sabonis continue their path.

Well of course the moves made in the offseason will be judged in perpetuity regardless of PG’s decision. Much like the Harden trade is still talked about. I just think that the team couldn’t stomach loosing Westbrook for nothing and every move they made flowed from that. Resigning Westbrook was a forgone conclusion from the teams standpoint, they felt that the had to do it. Now, I understand your disagreement with that philosophy and you may ultimately be proven right. Still, I think they did the right thing. Doing the right thing doesn’t always produce the ideal results.

[Atomic Punk]

Actually no, not really. First there are more than that and second most of us never thought he'd stay. We were happy to have another all star level talent.

But again, if you see this issue on twitter and not RealGM why don't you go to twitter? Because rambling about it here is just misdirected anger and wasting time.

am i taking up precious message board real estate or something? this is a basketball discussion board, no? the title of this topic is 'what happens if george leaves this year?', right?

my comments on the optimism of thunder fans here and in general on the prospects of retaining paul george appear appropriate and on topic. again, maybe i'm wrong about this board, who knows. i recall plenty of optimism for george staying though, and even throughout the year interpreting his statements, etc.

You've consistently said you didn't think much of Sabonis a year ago and didn't think he was a good prospect. So a salary dump and a nothing prospect is now "off-base" to your thoughts that they weren't very good. OK.

yes, i did not think he was a good prospect. he had a terrible rookie season offensively. he's proven otherwise this year, which necessarily adjusts the optics of the trade. oladipo's ascension as well. did i or, really, any thunder fan predict this would happen with those players? no. does that change what has happened? no. so i'm not sure what my personal opinion of oladipo or sabonis has anything to do with this.

i do not think the majority of thunder fans even on blogs and more 'intelligent' platforms viewed this as a one year shot.

I mean the only reason you really liked OKC in the first place was Durant and your fandom of him personally. Now all their fans hate him and you remain. It must be terribly difficult.

what does this have to do with the topic of discussion in this thread?

1. No, you're not. But you're not really achieving anything by talking to a bunch of people who felt that way and telling them how a bunch of randoms on twitter were wrong. You're not arguing or debating with anyone here, so you're not changing anyone's mind. It's preaching to the choir.

2. So revisionist history is what you're saying.

3. Your feelings on tanking may be related to your views on the team and general reasoning for even liking them in the first place, given they are no longer around. A Durant fan remaining an OKC fan now is a little odd.

But the tanking vs not thing is so far beyond old now I'd rather literally talk to a wall or debate Kobe vs. Lebron with Kobe fans. It's boring and old.

Dom, may I jump in here on point 3? I assume this is related to the Sonics, correct? I’ll be honest, I didn’t watch NBA basketball at all for almost 3 years after the team left. But when I came back, I watched The Thunder. Why? I suppose because of Durant and Colison and because of the ties to the Seattle team. I became a fan of Westbrook which I suppose is the reason I continue to watch the team and call it “my” team. Regardless, we all follow this team for one reason or another, we are all fans, and we all have a unique perspective on this franchise.

[bondom34]

Dom, may I jump in here on point 3? I assume this is related to the Sonics, correct? I’ll be honest, I didn’t watch NBA basketball at all for almost 3 years after the team left. But when I came back, I watched The Thunder. Why? I suppose because of Durant and Colison and because of the ties to the Seattle team. I became a fan of Westbrook which I suppose is the reason I continue to watch the team and call it “my” team. Regardless, we all follow this team for one reason or another, we are all fans, and we all have a unique perspective on this franchise.

Agree here AP. Just saying his takes on Durant and current OKC players seem to change based on....well nah. I won't go into it. He's a Thunder fan, he just hates everything they've done for the last few years and has a character to play. It was "Fire Presti" until he realized he couldn't get blind followers anymore. Now its doom and gloom and playing the "I was right" card while preaching to people who largely shared his view anyway.

Dunno, but don't get the sky is falling thing going on itt. Nothing changed from a week ago. Lakers still suck. If he leaves it wasn't ever about basketball, and I don't know it ever was.

[ThunderBolt]

Dom, may I jump in here on point 3? I assume this is related to the Sonics, correct? I’ll be honest, I didn’t watch NBA basketball at all for almost 3 years after the team left. But when I came back, I watched The Thunder. Why? I suppose because of Durant and Colison and because of the ties to the Seattle team. I became a fan of Westbrook which I suppose is the reason I continue to watch the team and call it “my” team. Regardless, we all follow this team for one reason or another, we are all fans, and we all have a unique perspective on this franchise.

Agree here AP. Just saying his takes on Durant and current OKC players seem to change based on....well nah. I won't go into it. He's a Thunder fan, he just hates everything they've done for the last few years and has a character to play. It was "Fire Presti" until he realized he couldn't get blind followers anymore. Now its doom and gloom and playing the "I was right" card while preaching to people who largely shared his view anyway.

Dunno, but don't get the sky is falling thing going on itt. Nothing changed from a week ago. Lakers still suck. If he leaves it wasn't ever about basketball, and I don't know it ever was.

Nothing changed but I think it’s PTSD from the robes injury that i postponed until the disappointing trade deadline.

[bondom34]

Dom, may I jump in here on point 3? I assume this is related to the Sonics, correct? I’ll be honest, I didn’t watch NBA basketball at all for almost 3 years after the team left. But when I came back, I watched The Thunder. Why? I suppose because of Durant and Colison and because of the ties to the Seattle team. I became a fan of Westbrook which I suppose is the reason I continue to watch the team and call it “my” team. Regardless, we all follow this team for one reason or another, we are all fans, and we all have a unique perspective on this franchise.

Agree here AP. Just saying his takes on Durant and current OKC players seem to change based on....well nah. I won't go into it. He's a Thunder fan, he just hates everything they've done for the last few years and has a character to play. It was "Fire Presti" until he realized he couldn't get blind followers anymore. Now its doom and gloom and playing the "I was right" card while preaching to people who largely shared his view anyway.

Dunno, but don't get the sky is falling thing going on itt. Nothing changed from a week ago. Lakers still suck. If he leaves it wasn't ever about basketball, and I don't know it ever was.

Nothing changed but I think it’s PTSD from the robes injury that i postponed until the disappointing trade deadline.

If its about basketball, its playing with Russ, Melo, and Adams vs. Ball and Ingram. For a guy nearing 30 who's never won much playing on his own. That Lakers team with both him and Lebron still aren't close to GSW or Houston. Neither is this team but they're the same thing just younger and arguably worse (their depth wouldn't be as good either).

If it's about basketball he may not stay but its not LA. If I'm being honest, Philly makes so much sense.

[Atomic Punk]

Dom, may I jump in here on point 3? I assume this is related to the Sonics, correct? I’ll be honest, I didn’t watch NBA basketball at all for almost 3 years after the team left. But when I came back, I watched The Thunder. Why? I suppose because of Durant and Colison and because of the ties to the Seattle team. I became a fan of Westbrook which I suppose is the reason I continue to watch the team and call it “my” team. Regardless, we all follow this team for one reason or another, we are all fans, and we all have a unique perspective on this franchise.

Agree here AP. Just saying his takes on Durant and current OKC players seem to change based on....well nah. I won't go into it. He's a Thunder fan, he just hates everything they've done for the last few years and has a character to play. It was "Fire Presti" until he realized he couldn't get blind followers anymore. Now its doom and gloom and playing the "I was right" card while preaching to people who largely shared his view anyway.

Dunno, but don't get the sky is falling thing going on itt. Nothing changed from a week ago. Lakers still suck. If he leaves it wasn't ever about basketball, and I don't know it ever was.

Don’t disagree with anything you said here Dom. Especially your take on PG.

[Dadouv47]

Dom, may I jump in here on point 3? I assume this is related to the Sonics, correct? I’ll be honest, I didn’t watch NBA basketball at all for almost 3 years after the team left. But when I came back, I watched The Thunder. Why? I suppose because of Durant and Colison and because of the ties to the Seattle team. I became a fan of Westbrook which I suppose is the reason I continue to watch the team and call it “my” team. Regardless, we all follow this team for one reason or another, we are all fans, and we all have a unique perspective on this franchise.

Agree here AP. Just saying his takes on Durant and current OKC players seem to change based on....well nah. I won't go into it. He's a Thunder fan, he just hates everything they've done for the last few years and has a character to play. It was "Fire Presti" until he realized he couldn't get blind followers anymore. Now its doom and gloom and playing the "I was right" card while preaching to people who largely shared his view anyway.

Dunno, but don't get the sky is falling thing going on itt. Nothing changed from a week ago. Lakers still suck. If he leaves it wasn't ever about basketball, and I don't know it ever was.

At least there were no ''baron davis'' after Westbrook first quarter against Golden State

[slick_watts]

1. No, you're not. But you're not really achieving anything by talking to a bunch of people who felt that way and telling them how a bunch of randoms on twitter were wrong. You're not arguing or debating with anyone here, so you're not changing anyone's mind. It's preaching to the choir.

bruh. i think most thunder fans were optimistic about paul george staying. i recall the same being true on this board. why does this have to be the spanish inquisition?

2. So revisionist history is what you're saying.

no. revisionist history would be someone claiming that everyone knew domantas sabonis would take a leap in year two like this. i'm not suggesting that at all. seriously, what is your problem?

3. Your feelings on tanking may be related to your views on the team and general reasoning for even liking them in the first place, given they are no longer around. A Durant fan remaining an OKC fan now is a little odd.

no longer around? what the hell are you talking about? i don't even live in the PNW. you are just talking out of your rear now. my feelings on tanking are something i've rationally explained over and over again. feel free to disagree if you want, but really who do you think you are with this nonsense?

But the tanking vs not thing is so far beyond old now I'd rather literally talk to a wall or debate Kobe vs. Lebron with Kobe fans. It's boring and old.

okay? so?

Just saying his takes on Durant and current OKC players seem to change based on....well nah. I won't go into it. He's a Thunder fan, he just hates everything they've done for the last few years and has a character to play.

i'm tired of you telling me and other people what i hate and don't like and the ulterior motives i have for all my opinions. you have no clue. i'm not spending my time in any discussion i have with you making personal attacks or questioning your sincerity, or whatever the hell you're trying to do here. i've been a fan of this team for probably close to how long you've been alive.

It was "Fire Presti" until he realized he couldn't get blind followers anymore. Now its doom and gloom and playing the "I was right" card while preaching to people who largely shared his view anyway.

there are plenty of people who wanted presti fired after kd left and hold him accountable for mistakes he's made. that's called having an opinion. you can't stand an opinion that isn't yours. i'm aggressive when it comes to defending my opinions, that's true. but i'm not going to summarily dismiss someone's entire fandom of the team or question your integrity just because we disagree. grow up.

[bondom34]

1. No, you're not. But you're not really achieving anything by talking to a bunch of people who felt that way and telling them how a bunch of randoms on twitter were wrong. You're not arguing or debating with anyone here, so you're not changing anyone's mind. It's preaching to the choir.

bruh. i think most thunder fans were optimistic about paul george staying. i recall the same being true on this board. why does this have to be the spanish inquisition?

2. So revisionist history is what you're saying.

no. revisionist history would be someone claiming that everyone knew domantas sabonis would take a leap in year two like this. i'm not suggesting that at all. seriously, what is your problem?

3. Your feelings on tanking may be related to your views on the team and general reasoning for even liking them in the first place, given they are no longer around. A Durant fan remaining an OKC fan now is a little odd.

no longer around? what the hell are you talking about? i don't even live in the PNW. you are just talking out of your rear now. my feelings on tanking are something i've rationally explained over and over again. feel free to disagree if you want, but really who do you think you are with this nonsense?

But the tanking vs not thing is so far beyond old now I'd rather literally talk to a wall or debate Kobe vs. Lebron with Kobe fans. It's boring and old.

okay? so?

Alright if you want to keep yelling at clouds go for it "bruh".

And "revisionist history" is changing your opinion of something based on outcome. Like saying Oladipo and Sabonis was a great package when at the time you didn't think so.

And you keep asking what my problem is, there is none. Maybe I'm just tired of the same person bringing up terrible strawmen and attacking them with such ferocity.

[slick_watts]

And "revisionist history" is changing your opinion of something based on outcome. Like saying Oladipo and Sabonis was a great package when at the time you didn't think so.

i'm taking your use of revisionism here (and my use of it earlier) as a disparagement to mean a changing of the opinion or prediction of the past to fit with changing events of the future. i'm not changing or alleging i felt differently about oladipo or sabonis. but in light of their performances, the optics of the trade in retrospect is certainly different.

i'm alleging revisionism on anyone who would claim that most thunder fans thought pg was a one and done player and / or the team would be a one year shot. i do not believe this was the widespread sentiment at the time. feel free to disagree! but this is not the same as just telling me i was wrong about oladipo and sabonis. obviously; nobody expected both of them to blow up like this.

i don't know why i have to explain this.

And you keep asking what my problem is, there is none.

you have always had a problem with me. that's okay. but keep it to yourself.

[slick_watts]

At least there were no ''baron davis'' after Westbrook first quarter against Golden State

westbrook has graduated to 'russell finley', by the way.

can't even make a joke!

[bondom34]

And "revisionist history" is changing your opinion of something based on outcome. Like saying Oladipo and Sabonis was a great package when at the time you didn't think so.

i'm taking your use of revisionism here (and my use of it earlier) as a disparagement to mean a changing of the opinion or prediction of the past to fit with changing events of the future. i'm not changing or alleging i felt differently about oladipo or sabonis. but in light of their performances, the optics of the trade in retrospect is certainly different.

i'm alleging revisionism on anyone who would claim that most thunder fans thought pg was a one and done player and / or the team would be a one year shot. i do not believe this was the widespread sentiment at the time. feel free to disagree! but this is not the same as just telling me i was wrong about oladipo and sabonis. obviously; nobody expected both of them to blow up like this.

i don't know why i have to explain this.

And you keep asking what my problem is, there is none.

you have always had a problem with me. that's okay. but keep it to yourself.

Except most Thunder fans haven't feltthis way. You keep rambling about it, and it's not true. You keep saying these twitter people are telling you these things when first we aren't them and second even there I didn't see this. You've built a large strawman and are totally killing it.

And I have no problem w/ you, you know this from DT too. I just tire of this facade all the time and the constant need to just find any nagging thing you can to be negative then latching on and playing it until everyone is so tired of the character it dies off.

[slick_watts]

Doing the right thing doesn’t always produce the ideal results.

this is a whole 'nother convo about the thunder philosophy we could probably waste 20 pages of thread on.

i never had a problem with the george trade. i still don't. but as the season has developed, a natural question to ask is "was it worth it?". the optics of hindsight are necessary to answer this, and even if the fans and bloggers did not anticipate oladipo or sabonis exploding-- i believe it should have been incumbent on the organization to do so to some degree.

Regardless, we all follow this team for one reason or another, we are all fans, and we all have a unique perspective on this franchise.

amen.

[slick_watts]

Except most Thunder fans haven't feltthis way. You keep rambling about it, and it's not true. You keep saying these twitter people are telling you these things when first we aren't them and second even there I didn't see this. You've built a large strawman and are totally killing it.

this is my opinion. i honestly don't think it's that important, and i prefaced it with "i may be mis-remembering". you remember it one way, i remember it another way. whatever. i'm not interested in dredging up the threads from earlier in the summer and i'm sure you are not interested either.

ultimately it doesn't even matter though, what matters is whether or not the thunder believe he will stay. royce and other reporters seem to be adamant that they are confident.

And I have no problem w/ you, you know this from DT too. I just tire of this facade all the time and the constant need to just find any nagging thing you can to be negative then latching on and playing it until everyone is so tired of the character it dies off.

there's no character or facade. sometimes i make jokes. it's obvious when i make jokes.

[bondom34]

Except most Thunder fans haven't feltthis way. You keep rambling about it, and it's not true. You keep saying these twitter people are telling you these things when first we aren't them and second even there I didn't see this. You've built a large strawman and are totally killing it.

this is my opinion. i honestly don't think it's that important, and i prefaced it with "i may be mis-remembering". you remember it one way, i remember it another way. whatever. i'm not interested in dredging up the threads from earlier in the summer and i'm sure you are not interested either.

ultimately it doesn't even matter though, what matters is whether or not the thunder believe he will stay. royce and other reporters seem to be adamant that they are confident.

And I have no problem w/ you, you know this from DT too. I just tire of this facade all the time and the constant need to just find any nagging thing you can to be negative then latching on and playing it until everyone is so tired of the character it dies off.

there's no character or facade. sometimes i make jokes. it's obvious when i make jokes.

So basically your entire starting point you don't know if you remember. OK then.

And if it's not a character it's odd, because on DT it's different than here.

But I'll give you last word J. I don't really care enough and debating you is one of the things I really don't look forward to at night when I just kinda want to actually talk basketball and not this bs.

[Kizz Fastfists]

PG made a comment early on about if OKC got to a certain point he would be foolish to leave. There were some people on this board who thought OKC was good enough to get to the WCF and allowed the quote to give themselves higher expectations on PG signing then most had. I think that is what Slick is thinking about. I don't recall exactly who it was, but I know there were a few, 2-4, who thought it was a lock that PG would resign because of how good OKC was going to be according to them.

On another board I post on most of that board thought it was a lock PG would sign. Some of them are the least secure they have been about keeping him after the deadline with LAL freeing up space and Presti not doing anything.

[bondom34]

PG made a comment early on about if OKC got to a certain point he would be foolish to leave. There were some people on this board who thought OKC was good enough to get to the WCF and allowed the quote to give themselves higher expectations on PG signing then most had. I think that is what Slick is thinking about. I don't recall exactly who it was, but I know there were a few, 2-4, who thought it was a lock that PG would resign because of how good OKC was going to be according to them.

On another board I post on most of that board thought it was a lock PG would sign. Some of them are the least secure they have been about keeping him after the deadline with LAL freeing up space and Presti not doing anything.

I still lurk occasionally. Same bad posters. And mods still awful.

[InTheSabonus]

Then we ride out Russell's contract, make the playoffs as the 7th/8th seed for a few years (if we can do it with his 2017 team we can do it with just about any ensemble of players), then let him retire an OKC legend, allowing the legacy of this franchise to be something other than the team that had and lost three MVPs. We'll go down as the franchise that lost two, which is...bad...but at least the franchise will have some kind of lasting legacy from a player.

It delays the rebuild by a few years, but in the process allows this very young franchise to build some kind of history, and it makes sure the fans get truly attached, over a long period of time, to a team that wins a lot of games and has many playoff appearances, so that when the team is bad again, the fans are too hooked to the team to completely walk away.