Thunder Offseason Thread

[slick_watts]

EDIT: And you know what's funny? Remember the 2016 WCF against Golden State where they actually countered their treatment of Roberson and used it to their advantage? That's what it means to actually adjust and take advantage of things. Not just standing there watching like some in over his head idiot.

you're right. we should have used andre roberson as a pick and roll screener against the blazers.

[ThunderBolt]

Nothing like benching Adams during the fourth of a playoff elimination game to kill his trade value. Tactical competence.

[Old Man Game]

We need to re-assess Adams and not just Westbrook. Part of our issue here is we can't pick and pop. Having a center who doesn't even look at the rim outside of 10 feet is not helping our spacing.

[Pillendreher]

And secondly: This is just a copout with the goal of absolving Donovan of his own incompetence, putting all the blame on Westbrook in the end. If all it takes to defend the PnR against us is to drop the Center back and we just stand there not knowing how to counter that, we need to disband the franchise and focus our time and efforts on some other sport.

you counter this by shooting. we're bad at shooting. westbrook himself is prone to getting goaded into defeating that pnr strategy himself. you beat this strategy by making jump shots. that's a roster construction problem and russell westbrook problem.

we've all seen westbrook, on numerous occasions this year, demonstrate an uncommon hesitance when faced with defenders sagging off him more and more. there is a solution to this, and the solution is to fix his jump shot. and that's primarily on russell westbrook.

There are of course multiple ways to counter this that go beyond just shooting them out of their coverage. Run PnR with George as the screener - they didn't do that close to often enough (Chris Fisher even mentioned it when they actually did it last night). Set screens further out, giving Westbrook more space to get a lane at the rim (Kanter is not going to stay under the rim when Adams sets a screen 30 feet away from the basket). They didn't do that. Try to run pick and pop with one of our bigmen that can shoot. They didn't do that. Maybe have Westbrook set the screen. They didn't do that. And so on and so on. Not even attempting to do something differently is a complete and utter failure.

EDIT: And you know what's funny? Remember the 2016 WCF against Golden State where they actually countered their treatment of Roberson and used it to their advantage? That's what it means to actually adjust and take advantage of things. Not just standing there watching like some in over his head idiot.

you're right. we should have used andre roberson as a pick and roll screener against the blazers.

Thank you for throwing in the towel. I don't want you to overburden yourself this early in the day.

[slick_watts]

There are of course multiple ways to counter this that go beyond just shooting them out of their coverage. Run PnR with George as the screener - they didn't do that close to often enough (Chris Fisher even mentioned it when they actually did it last night).

this has the consequence of constricting the floor even further most of the time. thunder had a lot of success doing westbrook-durant pick and roll back in the day but you are again for some reason ignoring what the blazers are doing to westbrook now in those situations that teams didn't really do before. they are not respecting him no matter who the screener is and that is the crux of the issue for which there is no real solution unless the team can fill the court with shooters. even then it's tenuous.

by the way, this is close to being a thunder specific problem. what other teams have a primary ball handler who can't shoot jump shots? if westbrook had ben simmons' help out there we wouldn't be talking about this.

Set screens further out, giving Westbrook more space to get a lane at the rim (Kanter is not going to stay under the rim when Adams sets a screen 30 feet away from the basket). They didn't do that. Try to run pick and pop with one of our bigmen that can shoot. They didn't do that. Maybe have Westbrook set the screen. They didn't do that. And so on and so on. Not even attempting to do something differently is a complete and utter failure.

setting a screen 30 feet away with westbrook as the ball handler? lol.

look, sometimes you just lose. sometimes there are problems with a team that strategy is not going to overcome. it's a safe place for fans with high expectations to blame a coach. i think your expectations were too high. i'm far more concerned with the thunder losing turnovers and losing offensive rebounding in the series than westbrook being exposed. we already knew that was possible and maybe even likely given what we've seen from him this year and last playoffs.

remember what erik horne said. 'cannot deviate'.

Thank you for throwing in the towel. I don't want you to overburden yourself this early in the day.

no, i am mocking your false equivalence.

[Old Man Game]

Damn, I can't believe I stayed up until 12:30 on a Tuesday with work the next day to watch that last night. F this team.

[NetsWorld]

Reset button time, after three first round exists post KD, it is time to trade Brodie, love him, but this season he proved his incompetence not just on the floor but off the floor. There is no composure, no reading defenses properly, just pure emotion driven and constantly bickering and fighting with players and reporters. Regardless of his performance or not, he will have suitors as well. I am willing to trade both Adams and Westbrook in return for younger talent and picks to build with and alongside PG13.

[Pillendreher]

....

A bunch of words just repeating the same mantra. I get it.

remember what erik horne said. 'cannot deviate'.

I couldn't care less what one of our trash beat writers says. Stop treating any blip that deviates from the company line like gospel.

Thank you for throwing in the towel. I don't want you to overburden yourself this early in the day.

no, i am mocking your false equivalence.

You obivously didn't understand the point I was making.

[Dadouv47]

If we aren't going to rebuild, we need to know our stars limitations. Russ can't shoot anymore. PG13 is a great great player but he isn't a natural scorer (yes he can get hot and shoot efficiently but he's not KD). We need to surround them with shooters. Price will be expensive and we will have to get rid of Adams (love you Steve <3) and Ferguson for a less competent big man but a way better starting SG and at least a shooter in the bench (not a fake scorer like Schroeder).

We were looking to a lot of shooters at the trade deadline. The amount of free agents this summer is BIG and it shouldn't be that difficult to add some relatively average wings.

[Dadouv47]

Reset button time, after three first round exists post KD, it is time to trade Brodie, love him, but this season he proved his incompetence not just on the floor but off the floor. There is no composure, no reading defenses properly, just pure emotion driven and constantly bickering and fighting with players and reporters. Regardless of his performance or not, he will have suitors as well. I am willing to trade both Adams and Westbrook in return for younger talent and picks to build with and alongside PG13.

I don't get this ''off the floor'' thing. What did I miss? Bad interviews? Next question? If he was playing well no one would mention this.

Yeah he looks terrible on the floor and he isn't the same but this off the floor non sense is stupid.

[slick_watts]

A bunch of words just repeating the same mantra. I get it.

it's the reality i warned about as early as last season re: how teams will play westbrook more and more so lets stop pretending. it's something that won't get better unless he fixes his jump shooting. there's not much donovan can do about this with our current roster.

I couldn't care less what one of our trash beat writers says. Stop treating any blip that deviates from the company line like gospel.

except this is following a trend of the sort of things outgoing beat writers say about the thunder. erik horne is not outgoing, you say? watch this space.

You obivously didn't understand the point I was making.

i know you want to scapegoat billy donovan because the thunder did not meet your expectations.

[Old Man Game]

Wow. The other team's actual game plan was to goad our all star PG into shooting like he was the 8th man coming off the bench or something AND it wasn't a crazy idea but instead was totally rational and worked beautifully for them. You have to say it out loud to understand how crazy this situation is. And this guy is a Supermax player and is probably untradeable. We are so ****.

[NetsWorld]

Reset button time, after three first round exists post KD, it is time to trade Brodie, love him, but this season he proved his incompetence not just on the floor but off the floor. There is no composure, no reading defenses properly, just pure emotion driven and constantly bickering and fighting with players and reporters. Regardless of his performance or not, he will have suitors as well. I am willing to trade both Adams and Westbrook in return for younger talent and picks to build with and alongside PG13.

I don't get this ''off the floor'' thing. What did I miss? Bad interviews? Next question? If he was playing well no one would mention this.

Yeah he looks terrible on the floor and he isn't the same but this off the floor non sense is stupid.

It is hard to ask him questions without getting proper responses. I understand his dislike for Tremel but he does not seem to want to answer reporters in a genuine manner. Why can't he make adjustments and why is he so intent on trying to stop reporters from asking him about his style of play?

[slick_watts]

true or false: dennis schroder's trade value is higher now than it was last summer.

[Old Man Game]

Reset button time, after three first round exists post KD, it is time to trade Brodie, love him, but this season he proved his incompetence not just on the floor but off the floor. There is no composure, no reading defenses properly, just pure emotion driven and constantly bickering and fighting with players and reporters. Regardless of his performance or not, he will have suitors as well. I am willing to trade both Adams and Westbrook in return for younger talent and picks to build with and alongside PG13.

I don't get this ''off the floor'' thing. What did I miss? Bad interviews? Next question? If he was playing well no one would mention this.

Yeah he looks terrible on the floor and he isn't the same but this off the floor non sense is stupid.

It is hard to ask him questions without getting proper responses. I understand his dislike for Tremel but he does not seem to want to answer reporters in a genuine manner. Why can't he make adjustments and why is he so intent on trying to stop reporters from asking him about his style of play?

It seems like he's gotten even more surly as his talent and athleticism are now on the wane. Like he's taking it out on the media that everyone with eyes can see he's bordering on Carmelo 'can't play in this league anymore' territory.

[NetsWorld]

I don't get this ''off the floor'' thing. What did I miss? Bad interviews? Next question? If he was playing well no one would mention this.

Yeah he looks terrible on the floor and he isn't the same but this off the floor non sense is stupid.

It is hard to ask him questions without getting proper responses. I understand his dislike for Tremel but he does not seem to want to answer reporters in a genuine manner. Why can't he make adjustments and why is he so intent on trying to stop reporters from asking him about his style of play?

It seems like he's gotten even more surly as his talent and athleticism are now on the wane. Like he's taking it out on the media that everyone with eyes can see he's bordering on Carmelo 'can't play in this league anymore' territory.

Unlike Carmelo, he is 30, but if they decide to stick with him, they need to get a coaching staff who will help him develop his gameto adjust to the modern NBA and teach him composure in a playoff series. That motor will not tick forever at such a high speed. Westbrook still thinks he is 25.

[Pillendreher]

I couldn't care less what one of our trash beat writers says. Stop treating any blip that deviates from the company line like gospel.

except this is following a trend of the sort of things outgoing beat writers say about the thunder. erik horne is not outgoing, you say? watch this space.

Again: I don't give a damn. What these guys are saying during/after leaving the Thunder beat is not inherently more valuable simply because they're leavin. You want it to be representative of reality because it goes against the company line and therefore it must be true. No.

You obivously didn't understand the point I was making.

i know you want to scapegoat billy donovan because the thunder did not meet your expectations.

This must be exhausting, comin up with excuses every time. Is foam rolling giving you the stamina to do this with such vigor?

[Dadouv47]

true or false: dennis schroder's trade value is higher now than it was last summer.

pretty much the same. It isn't lower at least. Russ struggling so much and Schroeder doing ''ok'' in the last 2 games helps a bit

[slick_watts]

Again: I don't give a damn. What these guys are saying during/after leaving the Thunder beat is not inherently more valuable simply because they're leavin. You want it to be representative of reality because it goes against the company line and therefore it must be true. No.

thunder beat writers have been more forthcoming when they know they are leaving. that is a trend. they've even spoken about topics we have been in agreement on- e.g. the thunder not knowing why they are losing. erik horne's comment is in stark contrast to what is ordinarily presented by thunder media, which gives it almost whistle blower weight. and it happens to coincide what has occurred in reality.

time will tell, as it always does.

This must be exhausting, comin up with excuses every time. Is foam rolling giving you the stamina to do this with such vigor?

excuses? portland took advantage of westbrook's poor shooting like numerous teams have this season. we were a below average team offensively this year! .500-ish since january. these aren't excuses, this is the team that was heading into the playoffs. gregg popovich wouldn't have changed anything about the outcome of this series given the way we shot the ball for most of it.

[Pillendreher]

Again: I don't give a damn. What these guys are saying during/after leaving the Thunder beat is not inherently more valuable simply because they're leavin. You want it to be representative of reality because it goes against the company line and therefore it must be true. No.

thunder beat writers have been more forthcoming when they know they are leaving. that is a trend. they've even spoken about topics we have been in agreement on- e.g. the thunder not knowing why they are losing. erik horne's comment is in stark contrast to what is ordinarily presented by thunder media, which gives it almost whistle blower weight. and it happens to coincide what has occurred in reality.

Like I said: You ascribe some sort of inherent value to those comments because they coincide with your personal views. Nothing more to it.