Player of the Day: Andre Roberson

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Re: Player of the Day: Andre Roberson 

Post#401 » by sleestak33 » Mon Nov 13, 2017 12:47 pm

Atomic Punk wrote:I think that the stats speak for themselves. If you don’t trust the stats, trust your eyes. I will say this; if Dre was able to develop 1 go to move offensively (hit a corner 3 at a respectable clip, a post up move, something) I think all of this talk would disappear.

I also seem to remember in the playoffs last year he was bringing the ball up the floor after made baskets and initiating the offense occasionally which I didn’t remember seeing in the regular season. Am I remembering that correctly? Could there be any value there?

I am a fan of Kanter, I like his offensive game and he seems like a good teammate. That being said, his D is just awful and it is easier to “hide” an offensive liability who excels on D than it is to “hide” a defensive liability over the long hall.


You must be listening to Berry Tramel because he's said that many times and it's hogwash. So how do you explain James Harden then? He is widely considered to be one of the worst defenders in the NBA yet it doesn't seem to both him too much, does it? The truth is you can hide a big who is an offensive liability because there isn't the requirement in the current state of the NBA game for post scoring but you dang sure can't hide a wing player who can't shoot and score. If you are a defensive liability but you account for more points with scoring, assists, offensive rebounds, etc. then you still can be very valuable and that's what Kanter does game in and game out. He gives up a few points defensively but is a dominant low post scorer and rebounder.
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Re: Player of the Day: Andre Roberson 

Post#402 » by Atomic Punk » Mon Nov 13, 2017 1:06 pm

sleestak33 wrote:
Atomic Punk wrote:I think that the stats speak for themselves. If you don’t trust the stats, trust your eyes. I will say this; if Dre was able to develop 1 go to move offensively (hit a corner 3 at a respectable clip, a post up move, something) I think all of this talk would disappear.

I also seem to remember in the playoffs last year he was bringing the ball up the floor after made baskets and initiating the offense occasionally which I didn’t remember seeing in the regular season. Am I remembering that correctly? Could there be any value there?

I am a fan of Kanter, I like his offensive game and he seems like a good teammate. That being said, his D is just awful and it is easier to “hide” an offensive liability who excels on D than it is to “hide” a defensive liability over the long hall.


You must be listening to Berry Tramel because he's said that many times and it's hogwash. So how do you explain James Harden then? He is widely considered to be one of the worst defenders in the NBA yet it doesn't seem to both him too much, does it? The truth is you can hide a big who is an offensive liability because there isn't the requirement in the current state of the NBA game for post scoring but you dang sure can't hide a wing player who can't shoot and score. If you are a defensive liability but you account for more points with scoring, assists, offensive rebounds, etc. then you still can be very valuable and that's what Kanter does game in and game out. He gives up a few points defensively but is a dominant low post scorer and rebounder.


Who is Barry Tramel?
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Re: Player of the Day: Andre Roberson 

Post#403 » by slick_watts » Mon Nov 13, 2017 1:11 pm

why are teams always better when kanter isn't playing? why are the thunder usually better when dre is playing?
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Re: Player of the Day: Andre Roberson 

Post#404 » by sleestak33 » Mon Nov 13, 2017 3:12 pm

slick_watts wrote:why are teams always better when kanter isn't playing? why are the thunder usually better when dre is playing?


It's an illogical question. Kanter was providing OKC with 14 points and 7 rebounds in only 21 minutes per game last year while predominantly playing with 2nd teamers. Clearly he was doing more than his part just like he's always done in the NBA but he has never played in a starting lineup until now and lo and behold the Knicks have a winning record (7-5) while OKC has a losing one. Roberson has his massive deficiencies masked by the fact he's in the starting lineup but anybody who knows anything about basketball can easily see that a remotely competent shooting guard would make this team much better overall since he would provide shooting and scoring plus forcing the other team to actually guard that position. Roberson is the only shooting guard or small forward in history that the other teams are literally not even guarding. Oh and the "hack a Roberson" started last night...he was 1-4 on free throws and that will continue to get worse.
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Re: Player of the Day: Andre Roberson 

Post#405 » by slick_watts » Mon Nov 13, 2017 3:18 pm

sleestak33 wrote:Clearly he was doing more than his part just like he's always done in the NBA but he has never played in a starting lineup until now and lo and behold the Knicks have a winning record (7-5) while OKC has a losing one.


but the knicks are much better when he's on the bench.
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Re: Player of the Day: Andre Roberson 

Post#406 » by bondom34 » Mon Nov 13, 2017 3:21 pm

Technically so are the thunder.
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Re: Player of the Day: Andre Roberson 

Post#407 » by sleestak33 » Tue Nov 14, 2017 12:17 pm

slick_watts wrote:
sleestak33 wrote:Clearly he was doing more than his part just like he's always done in the NBA but he has never played in a starting lineup until now and lo and behold the Knicks have a winning record (7-5) while OKC has a losing one.


but the knicks are much better when he's on the bench.


You mean like last night against Cleveland when he had 20 points, 16 rebounds and 4 assists in only 31 minutes? LMAO. Starting and playing 26 minutes per game 14 points 11 rebounds shooting 64% and 86% on free throws. Yeah he's just awful let me tell you.
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Re: Player of the Day: Andre Roberson 

Post#408 » by ThunderBolt » Tue Nov 14, 2017 12:49 pm

sleestak33 wrote:
slick_watts wrote:
sleestak33 wrote:Clearly he was doing more than his part just like he's always done in the NBA but he has never played in a starting lineup until now and lo and behold the Knicks have a winning record (7-5) while OKC has a losing one.


but the knicks are much better when he's on the bench.


You mean like last night against Cleveland when he had 20 points, 16 rebounds and 4 assists in only 31 minutes? LMAO. Starting and playing 26 minutes per game 14 points 11 rebounds shooting 64% and 86% on free throws. Yeah he's just awful let me tell you.


He had the worst +/- among starters and second worst on the team. This isn’t a one time occurrence either. Oh, and not that it matters to you but the Knicks lost.
bisme37 wrote:If there were magnets in basketballs so strong they changed the path of the ball as it flew through the air, wouldn't the ball then stick magnetically to the rim when it got there?
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Re: Player of the Day: Andre Roberson 

Post#409 » by slick_watts » Tue Nov 14, 2017 1:21 pm

sleestak33 wrote:
slick_watts wrote:
sleestak33 wrote:Clearly he was doing more than his part just like he's always done in the NBA but he has never played in a starting lineup until now and lo and behold the Knicks have a winning record (7-5) while OKC has a losing one.


but the knicks are much better when he's on the bench.


You mean like last night against Cleveland when he had 20 points, 16 rebounds and 4 assists in only 31 minutes? LMAO. Starting and playing 26 minutes per game 14 points 11 rebounds shooting 64% and 86% on free throws. Yeah he's just awful let me tell you.


i mean, yeah. the knicks were better last night when he wasn't in.
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Re: Player of the Day: Andre Roberson 

Post#410 » by Pillendreher » Tue Nov 14, 2017 2:11 pm

Image
"I don't know of any player that, when the shot goes up, he doesn't want it to go in," Donovan said
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Re: Player of the Day: Andre Roberson 

Post#411 » by RalphSampsonJr » Tue Nov 14, 2017 4:45 pm

Is this thread still going?!

I thought everyone would get tired of arguing with actual relevant basketball stats compared to superficial boxscore ones.
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Re: Player of the Day: Andre Roberson 

Post#412 » by ThunderBolt » Tue Nov 14, 2017 5:29 pm

RalphSampsonJr wrote:Is this thread still going?!

I thought everyone would get tired of arguing with actual relevant basketball stats compared to superficial boxscore ones.


I have no doubt this thread will reach 100 pages.
bisme37 wrote:If there were magnets in basketballs so strong they changed the path of the ball as it flew through the air, wouldn't the ball then stick magnetically to the rim when it got there?
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Re: Player of the Day: Andre Roberson 

Post#413 » by hardenASG13 » Tue Nov 14, 2017 6:04 pm

RalphSampsonJr wrote:Is this thread still going?!

I thought everyone would get tired of arguing with actual relevant basketball stats compared to superficial boxscore ones.


Such as??
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Re: Player of the Day: Andre Roberson 

Post#414 » by ThunderBolt » Tue Nov 14, 2017 7:05 pm

hardenASG13 wrote:
RalphSampsonJr wrote:Is this thread still going?!

I thought everyone would get tired of arguing with actual relevant basketball stats compared to superficial boxscore ones.


Such as??


Click here and continue reading until the end- viewtopic.php?f=334&t=1611926#start_here
bisme37 wrote:If there were magnets in basketballs so strong they changed the path of the ball as it flew through the air, wouldn't the ball then stick magnetically to the rim when it got there?
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Re: Player of the Day: Andre Roberson 

Post#415 » by sleestak33 » Wed Nov 15, 2017 11:39 am

Knrstz wrote:
sleestak33 wrote:
slick_watts wrote:
but the knicks are much better when he's on the bench.


You mean like last night against Cleveland when he had 20 points, 16 rebounds and 4 assists in only 31 minutes? LMAO. Starting and playing 26 minutes per game 14 points 11 rebounds shooting 64% and 86% on free throws. Yeah he's just awful let me tell you.


He had the worst +/- among starters and second worst on the team. This isn’t a one time occurrence either. Oh, and not that it matters to you but the Knicks lost.


You guys crack me up. 20 points, 16 rebounds and 4 assists in only 31 minutes is an absolutely phenomenal game, especially considering it came against Cleveland and you still stick to your guns that Kanter is somehow a negative for the team because he has defensive deficiencies. You're like the band on the Titanic continuing to play while the ship is sinking into the icy cold Atlantic. But yeah, keep posting that plus/minus stat because that's really convincing everybody it's legit. LMAO
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Re: Player of the Day: Andre Roberson 

Post#416 » by ThunderBolt » Wed Nov 15, 2017 11:46 am

sleestak33 wrote:
Knrstz wrote:
sleestak33 wrote:
You mean like last night against Cleveland when he had 20 points, 16 rebounds and 4 assists in only 31 minutes? LMAO. Starting and playing 26 minutes per game 14 points 11 rebounds shooting 64% and 86% on free throws. Yeah he's just awful let me tell you.


He had the worst +/- among starters and second worst on the team. This isn’t a one time occurrence either. Oh, and not that it matters to you but the Knicks lost.


You guys crack me up. 20 points, 16 rebounds and 4 assists in only 31 minutes is an absolutely phenomenal game, especially considering it came against Cleveland and you still stick to your guns that Kanter is somehow a negative for the team because he has defensive deficiencies. You're like the band on the Titanic continuing to play while the ship is sinking into the icy cold Atlantic. But yeah, keep posting that plus/minus stat because that's really convincing everybody it's legit. LMAO


The part of the illustration you miss is who represents the sinking ship. It’s the other four starters who play alongside Kanter. Regardless of the stats Kanter puts up, the opposing team always outscore the team Kanter plays on when he’s out on the court. His offense is not so good that the other four starters can cover his deficiencies. Years of data isn’t a mere coincidence. It’s an established fact.
bisme37 wrote:If there were magnets in basketballs so strong they changed the path of the ball as it flew through the air, wouldn't the ball then stick magnetically to the rim when it got there?
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Re: Player of the Day: Andre Roberson 

Post#417 » by sleestak33 » Wed Nov 15, 2017 11:50 am

Pillendreher wrote:Image


Roberson is 5-25 (20%) on 3s this year (counting preseason games), 3-7 on free throws (37%) while also missing numerous layups, shooting 3s off the top of the backboard, famously airballing 2 free throws in a row and in the last game Dallas started "hack a Roberson" and Donovan had to yank him from the game immediately (something I'm amazed other teams haven't done every game but will start to happen more). He is also coming off a playoff series against Houston where he gave up more points to James Harden in the 1st 3 games than anybody has scored in the postseason dating all the way back to Michael Jordan (37, 35 and 44 points...Harden averaged over 33 for the series) and also setting the all time record for worst free throw percentage in a series going 3-23 and singlehandedly losing game 4 going 2-12. Yeah that Roberson is something else though let me tell you with his "elite" defense.
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Re: Player of the Day: Andre Roberson 

Post#418 » by Pillendreher » Wed Nov 15, 2017 12:02 pm

sleestak33 wrote:
Pillendreher wrote:Image


Roberson is 5-25 (20%) on 3s this year (counting preseason games), 3-7 on free throws (37%) while also missing numerous layups, shooting 3s off the top of the backboard, famously airballing 2 free throws in a row and in the last game Dallas started "hack a Roberson" and Donovan had to yank him from the game immediately (something I'm amazed other teams haven't done every game but will start to happen more). He is also coming off a playoff series against Houston where he gave up more points to James Harden in the 1st 3 games than anybody has scored in the postseason dating all the way back to Michael Jordan (37, 35 and 44 points...Harden averaged over 33 for the series) and also setting the all time record for worst free throw percentage in a series going 3-23 and singlehandedly losing game 4 going 2-12. Yeah that Roberson is something else though let me tell you with his "elite" defense.


You really are like a broken record, aren't you?
"I don't know of any player that, when the shot goes up, he doesn't want it to go in," Donovan said
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Re: Player of the Day: Andre Roberson 

Post#419 » by hardenASG13 » Wed Nov 15, 2017 12:23 pm

Knrstz wrote:
sleestak33 wrote:
Knrstz wrote:
He had the worst +/- among starters and second worst on the team. This isn’t a one time occurrence either. Oh, and not that it matters to you but the Knicks lost.


You guys crack me up. 20 points, 16 rebounds and 4 assists in only 31 minutes is an absolutely phenomenal game, especially considering it came against Cleveland and you still stick to your guns that Kanter is somehow a negative for the team because he has defensive deficiencies. You're like the band on the Titanic continuing to play while the ship is sinking into the icy cold Atlantic. But yeah, keep posting that plus/minus stat because that's really convincing everybody it's legit. LMAO


The part of the illustration you miss is who represents the sinking ship. It’s the other four starters who play alongside Kanter. Regardless of the stats Kanter puts up, the opposing team always outscore the team Kanter plays on when he’s out on the court. His offense is not so good that the other four starters can cover his deficiencies. Years of data isn’t a mere coincidence. It’s an established fact.


Kanter is in the knicks most used lineup by far. That lineup has a positive net rating, and drops significantly when he's replaced with O Quinn.
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Re: Player of the Day: Andre Roberson 

Post#420 » by slick_watts » Wed Nov 15, 2017 12:43 pm

hardenASG13 wrote:Kanter is in the knicks most used lineup by far. That lineup has a positive net rating, and drops significantly when he's replaced with O Quinn.


andre roberson is in the thunder's most used lineup, by far. that lineup has a positive net rating, and drops when he's replaced by alex abrines.

i enjoy that you've been convinced to look at lineup data, at least. but, < 50% of kanter's minutes are with the starters, and the starters only account for about a quarter of the knicks total minutes. this 'method' you are using is ignoring half of kanter's minutes, and three quarters of the knicks' minutes. makes no sense.

fact! the knicks play much better when kanter is not in. fact! this has been the case his entire career.

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