Thunder Offseason Thread

Kizz Fastfists · Post #501 » by **Kizz Fastfists** » Wed May 22, 2019 5:54 pm

mr570 wrote:Your takes are consistently awful. Do you get a chub from being the most pessimistic guy in the room all the time?

Define awful. You don't agree? They end up being inaccurate? Disagreement doesn't both me just explain to me why you think I am wrong. The problem is this team is doing exactly what I said it would do if they didn't rebuild when kd ran off to be Draymond's toy. Russ is dropping off right when I said he would. I don't view realistic expectations as pessimism. I view expecting the team to be a contender to be a mental disorder because it shows a disassociation with reality.

Post #502 » by **Andre Roberstan** » Wed May 22, 2019 9:00 pm

Kizz Fastfists wrote:
mr570 wrote:Your takes are consistently awful. Do you get a chub from being the most pessimistic guy in the room all the time?

Define awful. You don't agree? They end up being inaccurate? Disagreement doesn't both me just explain to me why you think I am wrong. The problem is this team is doing exactly what I said it would do if they didn't rebuild when kd ran off to be Draymond's toy. Russ is dropping off right when I said he would. I don't view realistic expectations as pessimism. I view expecting the team to be a contender to be a mental disorder because it shows a disassociation with reality.

I'd avoid calling people out for having mental disorders, just fyi.

Kizz Fastfists · Post #503 » by **Kizz Fastfists** » Wed May 22, 2019 9:18 pm

Andre Roberstan wrote:I'd avoid calling people out for having mental disorders, just fyi.

Why? I never said I didn't have mental disorders. :crazy:

oreojenkins · Post #504 » by **oreojenkins** » Wed May 22, 2019 9:37 pm

Think my baseline for the offseason is something like signing Wes Matthews (which I'm not even sure he wants to play here) or Terrance Ross, signing Anthony Tolliver for the min, signing a backup 5 for the min, and drafting someone who can shoot like Herro. Anything more than that would be a success, anything less a failure. Took a look at who can shoot long 3s to help with our spacing, and Matthews and Tolliver basically the only plausible answers. Ross is OK in that regard. Not too optimistic that next year's team will look that much different than this year's.

Kizz Fastfists · Post #505 » by **Kizz Fastfists** » Wed May 22, 2019 11:12 pm

I have no intentions of being disappointed with this off-season. My expectations are:

1) Draft Thybulle

2) Sign a vet minimum center like Tyler Zeller to replace Noel

3) Sign another vet minimum player who can pretend they are a shooter, i.e. Tolliver, Wayne Ellington, Wilson Chandler, Jamychel Green or Jeff Green.

It will be pretty hard not to meet those expectations. Presti could exceed them without too much effort. However, if he uses #21 to dump Schroder and goes with vet minimums to fill out and Felton as the backup PG I'll be laughing at how pathetic Presti is.

oreojenkins · Post #506 » by **oreojenkins** » Fri May 24, 2019 4:32 pm

What if MJ wanted Russ and OKC was willing to give Kemba more than the 4/whatever he could get signing with someone other than Charlotte? Something like Westbrook + filler for Kemba, #12, and Hernangomez. I probably wouldn't, but it's one of the only places I think would be interested in acquiring him. MJ connection + their roster probably conducive to letting him go buck wild. Charlotte, maybe Miami, maybe Phoenix... it's tough.

I don't want to trade him, just offseason boredom hypotheticals.

Kizz Fastfists · Post #507 » by **Kizz Fastfists** » Sat May 25, 2019 2:40 am

OKC can't give Kemba more than anyone else. Only the Hornets can and that is IF they keep him. They can't do it in a S&T. Phoenix doesn't want Russ. They want a young PG who can distribute and work in an offense. Miami might be stupid enough to go for him, but OKC isn't doing Russ for Whiteside. I guess if Dragic opts in, which is likely, you could do Russ for Dragic and one of Olynyk or Waiters. Don't think that helps.

I think Minny could be stupid enough to trade Russ to clear Wiggins. Washington would probably do Wall for Russ. Wiggins is intriguing. Wall is the same type of bad for the team PG that Russ is. Wall and Russ are both very good players, but neither players the way that you'd want a PG to play if you have championship goals.

acheema0 · Post #508 » by **acheema0** » Sat May 25, 2019 4:59 am

Read on Twitter

acheema0 · Post #509 » by **acheema0** » Sat May 25, 2019 5:01 am

Kizz Fastfists wrote:OKC can't give Kemba more than anyone else. Only the Hornets can and that is IF they keep him. They can't do it in a S&T. Phoenix doesn't want Russ. They want a young PG who can distribute and work in an offense. Miami might be stupid enough to go for him, but OKC isn't doing Russ for Whiteside. I guess if Dragic opts in, which is likely, you could do Russ for Dragic and one of Olynyk or Waiters. Don't think that helps.

I think Minny could be stupid enough to trade Russ to clear Wiggins. Washington would probably do Wall for Russ. Wiggins is intriguing. Wall is the same type of bad for the team PG that Russ is. Wall and Russ are both very good players, but neither players the way that you'd want a PG to play if you have championship goals.

How is Wiggins intriguing? He sucks. You'd be trading Russ for a much much much worse player who makes just 10 mil less than he does for the same length of time.

Pillendreher · Post #510 » by **Pillendreher** » Sat May 25, 2019 8:30 am

acheema0 wrote:

Read on Twitter

The biggest idiot of them all remains.

Pillendreher · Post #511 » by **Pillendreher** » Sat May 25, 2019 9:26 am

acheema0 wrote:
Kizz Fastfists wrote:OKC can't give Kemba more than anyone else. Only the Hornets can and that is IF they keep him. They can't do it in a S&T. Phoenix doesn't want Russ. They want a young PG who can distribute and work in an offense. Miami might be stupid enough to go for him, but OKC isn't doing Russ for Whiteside. I guess if Dragic opts in, which is likely, you could do Russ for Dragic and one of Olynyk or Waiters. Don't think that helps.

I think Minny could be stupid enough to trade Russ to clear Wiggins. Washington would probably do Wall for Russ. Wiggins is intriguing. Wall is the same type of bad for the team PG that Russ is. Wall and Russ are both very good players, but neither players the way that you'd want a PG to play if you have championship goals.

How is Wiggins intriguing? He sucks. You'd be trading Russ for a much much much worse player who makes just 10 mil less than he does for the same length of time.

Wiggins might be intriguing for the Thunder because he sucks. Presti still hasn't managed to aquire a garbage player and fix him. This would be his ultimate project. Dion Waiters on steroids.

Post #512 » by **ThunderBolt** » Sat May 25, 2019 2:54 pm

Jeff Bzdelik is available.

Kizz Fastfists · Post #513 » by **Kizz Fastfists** » Sat May 25, 2019 4:05 pm

acheema0 wrote:How is Wiggins intriguing? He sucks. You'd be trading Russ for a much much much worse player who makes just 10 mil less than he does for the same length of time.

Donovan's "system" is based on shooting. Wiggins is a much better shooter than Russ. How is giving Donovan players that fit his system not interesting? It would be Presti starting to mold the roster to the play style of his coach. Wiggins is younger than Jerami Grant so has a chance to improve. Russ is on bad knees and the wrong side of 30. So you are trading a declining player with a terrible contract for a young player that might still become what some thought he would be on draft night. What is the downside? OKC, as they sit now, is more likely to miss the playoffs next year than make them. If it takes them from the 12th pick to the 4th pick it is a good move. It takes them from the 12th pick to into the playoffs it is a good move. It gets them to the 2nd round it is a GREAT move.

There is absolutely no downside to trading Russ for Wiggins. The worst thing that can happen is OKC be as mediocre as they are now. Everyone wants to improve OKC's shooting. This would be a huge improvement to the shooting. Schroder showed that he can be the starting PG in Donovan's offense. Maybe you get Teague with Wiggins and push OKC's shooting up even more.

OKC fans can't be intellectually honest when saying "OKC need shooting" if they are not willing to trade Russ. Russ is the worst volume shooter in the NBA! Just taking Russ off the team improves OKC's shooting. Replacing him with a better shooter improves the shooting. If people are happy where OKC is then they can simple stay they don't like winning playoff games. That is fine. My stance has always been you should either be in the top 5 teams or bottom 5 teams. Right now OKC is on a treadmill and when that belt snaps they will go flying off into being a bottom 5 team with Russ still on the roster. Prest refused to accept what his team was when kd ran off and has dumped far too many assets to maintain being an easy first round exit.

Pillendreher · Post #514 » by **Pillendreher** » Sat May 25, 2019 5:52 pm

Kizz Fastfists wrote:Wiggins is a much better shooter than Russ.

You sure about that?

Westbrook just had his worst shooting season by far and Wiggins still manages to be right there with him when it comes to making shots not at the rim.

Also kudos on having that special ability to be able to turn this into a pro Donovan argument when you've been calling for his head even more openly than me for years.

acheema0 · Post #515 » by **acheema0** » Sat May 25, 2019 7:00 pm

Kizz Fastfists wrote:
acheema0 wrote:How is Wiggins intriguing? He sucks. You'd be trading Russ for a much much much worse player who makes just 10 mil less than he does for the same length of time.

Donovan's "system" is based on shooting. Wiggins is a much better shooter than Russ. How is giving Donovan players that fit his system not interesting? It would be Presti starting to mold the roster to the play style of his coach. Wiggins is younger than Jerami Grant so has a chance to improve. Russ is on bad knees and the wrong side of 30. So you are trading a declining player with a terrible contract for a young player that might still become what some thought he would be on draft night. What is the downside? OKC, as they sit now, is more likely to miss the playoffs next year than make them. If it takes them from the 12th pick to the 4th pick it is a good move. It takes them from the 12th pick to into the playoffs it is a good move. It gets them to the 2nd round it is a GREAT move.

There is absolutely no downside to trading Russ for Wiggins. The worst thing that can happen is OKC be as mediocre as they are now. Everyone wants to improve OKC's shooting. This would be a huge improvement to the shooting. Schroder showed that he can be the starting PG in Donovan's offense. Maybe you get Teague with Wiggins and push OKC's shooting up even more.

First of all, no Wiggins is in no way a much better shooter than Russ. That's just a flat out lie. He's just as bad, without being any good at the rim. He's also a much much much much worse ball handler and passer who doesn't have the ability to create good looks for his teammates either. Like this isn't even an argument, Andrew Wiggins is a much worse offensive player than Russell Westbrook.

Trading for him just because he's young would be idiotic. His numbers have gotten worse the last two years, and his defense isn't any good either. On top of that, he's already gotten paid. What incentive does he have to improve?

Post #516 » by **slick_watts** » Sat May 25, 2019 9:14 pm

mark bryant leaving would leave sam presti and russell westbrook the only sonics left.

Post #517 » by **slick_watts** » Sat May 25, 2019 9:20 pm

wiggins is terrible lol. perhaps moving forward he might have more value over the course of his contract relative to his contract than westbrook. that's a possibility, as bad as he is. but i don't see what acquiring him would do for the team. it wouldn't relieve the thunder enough to make other moves to offset the gap between westbrook and wiggins today.

oreojenkins · Post #518 » by **oreojenkins** » Sat May 25, 2019 10:10 pm

Kizz Fastfists wrote:OKC can't give Kemba more than anyone else. Only the Hornets can and that is IF they keep him. They can't do it in a S&T. Phoenix doesn't want Russ. They want a young PG who can distribute and work in an offense. Miami might be stupid enough to go for him, but OKC isn't doing Russ for Whiteside. I guess if Dragic opts in, which is likely, you could do Russ for Dragic and one of Olynyk or Waiters. Don't think that helps.

I think Minny could be stupid enough to trade Russ to clear Wiggins. Washington would probably do Wall for Russ. Wiggins is intriguing. Wall is the same type of bad for the team PG that Russ is. Wall and Russ are both very good players, but neither players the way that you'd want a PG to play if you have championship goals.

Was unaware you couldn't S&T Bird contracts. Now I know. The other financial restrictions render that idea moot it seems anyways. In any event, Wiggins' upside is basically a poor man's DDR.

Kizz Fastfists · Post #519 » by **Kizz Fastfists** » Sun May 26, 2019 3:24 am

oreojenkins wrote:Was unaware you couldn't S&T Bird contracts. Now I know. The other financial restrictions render that idea moot it seems anyways. In any event, Wiggins' upside is basically a poor man's DDR.

They can S&T him, but it can only be at the same value he could get from a non-bird team. It was a new change to the CBA. When LeBron did his S&T from Cleveland to Miami he got the bird raises, etc. It is a newer change.

Kizz Fastfists · Post #520 » by **Kizz Fastfists** » Sun May 26, 2019 3:38 am

acheema0 wrote:First of all, no Wiggins is in no way a much better shooter than Russ. That's just a flat out lie. He's just as bad, without being any good at the rim. He's also a much much much much worse ball handler and passer who doesn't have the ability to create good looks for his teammates either. Like this isn't even an argument, Andrew Wiggins is a much worse offensive player than Russell Westbrook.

I really was hopeful you would go there for me. Wiggins in his worst season at the rim shot 62% and his career his 65%. Russ in his best season at the rim was 65% and his career is 59%. Wiggins is a career 33% shooter from 3 and 34% over the last three years. Russ is 30% from 3 for his career and his best year was 34%.

Just because you are unaware that Wiggins is a better finisher at the rim and shooter doesn't mean he isn't one. He makes their shots the most is the better shooter. Wiggins isn't a PG so his ball handling and creating shouldn't be on par with Russ. OKC has a guy named Schroder that can replace Russ' ball handing and passing in the starting lineup and they could get a tax-MLE backup PG or get Teague with Wiggins and then start Teague for a potentially very good starting 5 from a shooting stand point. Teague, Ferguson, PG, Grant and Adams would have 4 guys that could all realistically hit 35%+ from 3. Throw in Schroder and Wiggins off the bench and OKC would have some offensive punch that would fit Billy's "system". Diallo off the bench would give you some defense and if he can improve his shooting could be really nice. They'd still have Patterson as a potentially decent player off the bench not good, but an average 9th guy on a team. They could use another combo forward or small ball 5 type, but they would theoretically have the 21st pick, Melo TPE and tax-MLE to add to that group.

I wouldn't expect them to get any further than they would with riding Russ as long as Donovan was coaching, but maybe Teague would bring enough BBIQ to get them to attack teams in the P&R more. Adams shot over 50% in the 10-16 ft range the last two years. Maybe a player with his experience and BBIQ would make Donovan actually get some movement on offense that he keeps claiming he wants. I don't expect that to actually work, but it is better than doing nothing and expecting a different result than we keep seeing.