Billy Donovan...

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Re: Billy Donovan... 

Post#61 » by Machete » Thu Apr 30, 2015 2:20 pm

Thundestruck wrote:
spearsy23 wrote:
QPR wrote:2x championships, 4x finals four, 7x elite eight, 8x sweet 16 and 14 tournament appearances overall in 19 seasons, without the recruitment pulling power of the likes of Duke, Kentucky, UNC etc. It might not be a popular choice but let's not pretend it's just some no name who is Presti's buddy. He's one of the most successful college coaches of all time - it's funny that people would love Messina presumably due to his European success, but college success is a massive red flag.

It's true that of those who have gone straight from coaching in college to a HC role in the NBA haven't traditionally thrived, but I can't think of one who has taken over a contending roster either.

A lot of College coaching is about recruiting, it's pretty easy to piggyback off of Horford/Noah/Speights/Brewer/Green and win. Plus, if you're even a reasonably good coach in a major conference you should make the tournament 60+ percent of the time, and should win in round one more often than not. It's not like Donovan is a horrible coach or he wouldn't even be on the radar, but he's done nothing to suggest he should be the front runner for this job, especially if Presti wants a 'new NBA' offense. Last year the Gators were ranked 230+ in offense, it pretty much shows that he isn't some X's and O's genius, he'll have a successful offense the same way Brooks did, by letting players make plays. Donovan has a less successful resume than Messina, less experience than anyone, and his most redeeming quality is 'friends with Sam Presti.' It's blatantly obvious that nepotism is the reason he is being hired. That said, he can be the least qualified candidate and still do a good job. I hope he does, I just think it's f***ed the way he was hired.



Honestly, it is okay to just be upset with hiring a college guy and not throw out a bunch of stuff you really don't know about it.

You threw out a bunch of names of guys that actually prove a strong point about Donovan. Not one guy you listed was a 5-star, can't miss NBA lock. They were good solid recruits (mostly 4 stars) and Donovan helped develop them into first round picks and NCAA Champions.

Speights was offered by Memphis, Miami and South Florida
Brewer was offered by Mississippi State, Tennessee, Vanderbilt and W. Kentucky
Noah was ranked No. 75 in the country (solid but not a slam dunk)
Brewer was ranked No. 35

A lot of NBA teams have come calling for Donovan over the years so to act like he is just Sam's friend is silly. You might not like the hire and think the Thunder could have done better but to call this a nepotism to hire is pretty baseless. You think Presti is going to risk his job and future of the franchise to hire his friend? What about anything Presti has ever done makes you think that?



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Re: Billy Donovan... 

Post#62 » by Machete » Thu Apr 30, 2015 2:23 pm

I've been doing a lot of research on Billy Donovan, and he's earned my respect. I can't wait to start off the season ( :
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Re: Billy Donovan... 

Post#63 » by Thundestruck » Thu Apr 30, 2015 2:28 pm

The only real knock against Donovan is that he is a college coach. In no way am I trying to downplay that either. It is a risk and a concern. However, when you check off all the boxes you would want in the next coach for the Thunder (in my mind at least) he checks off most of them.
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Re: Billy Donovan... 

Post#64 » by bondom34 » Thu Apr 30, 2015 2:43 pm

Just to add this, it makes a bit of sense too and helped my optimism, I'm on board w/ the move, but SI did a piece on who should be the next coach:

Ben Golliver: Billy Donovan

I'm really intrigued by the Donovan chatter. Clearly, an established relationship with GM Sam Presti is a good starting point. To me, the Thunder have two needs from this position. First, they need a coach with instant credibility—the type of credibility that can sell Kevin Durant and Russell Westbrook on the team's ability to win immediately and make the most of their primes. Second, they need a coach that has a strong enough personality to carry the organization in a worst-case scenario that sees Durant and/or Westbrook leaving in free agency over the next few years.


​​​​I think Donovan does a solid job of addressing both of those needs. His resume includes multiple NCAA titles, a number of deep postseason runs, and a tradition of winning at Florida that extends for more than a decade. That success has made him a household name, and yet he still seems to have the fire (he's only 49) to embrace the challenge of taking his game to the pro level. Donovan shouldn't need to "sell" Durant and Westbrook on himself, only his systems—and that is an important distinction after seven seasons with a familiar, trusted face in Scott Brooks.

Donovan's extended success at Florida makes him an ideal fit to be the face of the Thunder if their superstars do decide to leave down the road. Boston drew up the blueprint for this approach when it hired Butler's Brad Stevens; that hire gave Celtics fans a personality to trust in and demonstrated a firm commitment to a long-term rebuilding process. The risk in hiring a current assistant coach or a retread NBA head coach is that it could create the need for a second coaching change if things don't go according to plan and the superstars bail. Presti doesn't seem like the type of executive who wants to churn through coaches, and Donovan could fit as a guy capable of being both a "win now" guy and a "figurehead" presence down the road if needed. I liked Danny Ainge's outside-the-box thinking in tabbing Stevens and I think a similar approach could work here.


http://www.si.com/nba/2015/04/29/oklaho ... il-jackson

I'd rather him than Thibs, Jackson isn't realistic, and the only possibilities I'd be a little interested in are Messina and maybe Obradovich/Gentry/Adams. Gentry would be a retread, Adams has no HC experience, and the other 2 were only HCs in Europe (though that still counts). Ultimately, Donovan has a shot, and he has KD on board which is the biggest thing. Just roll w/ it.
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Re: Billy Donovan... 

Post#65 » by TylersLakers » Thu Apr 30, 2015 2:45 pm

Hey guys,

With the hiring inevitable at this point, I thought I would offer my input.

I know, I'm a Lakers fan from Canada, and some of you will probably figure I have no idea what I'm talking about, but I've seen the Gators play live a few times, and my older brother I would bet is the biggest Gators fan in the world. Why? I have no idea. So, with that, I've been nearly forced to watch the Gators since dating back to the Matt Walsh/Anthony Roberson days. My thoughts on Billy D are the following:

POSITIVES:

- He gets players to buy in:

Guys have always bought in to his program and his system as long as I've watched the Gators. And I'm sure they will all swear by him.

- Great leader:

He'll always back his team when it comes to the officiating, his speeches, direction out of timeouts, when to take timeouts, is excellent. At the same time, he's no one's BFF. Players respect him, they look at him as a father figure, however he doesn't cross that line and become someone's buddy. It doesn't matter if you're a guy like Brad Beal, Al Horford, Joakim Noah or if you're a guy on the bottom of the roster like Jacob Kurtz, Dan Werner (he's another story), or any other many walk on's he's had. He's consistent with every single player. There is no special treatment for anyone.

http://youtu.be/W4fLywgEQts

By the way, great pregame speech there the night they won the first of their back to back national championships.


D:

He's a great defensive coach. He stresses it and you better play it or you're not playing. And if you're not a great defensive player, you better give absolute maximum effort. You better rotate, you better full court press hard, you better come over and trap in the areas he likes to, you better contest. You guys will be a much better defensive team. However, this will lead to one of my concerns.

- He has a great way of getting the best out of roleplayers.

Guys like Taurean Green, Lee Humphrey, Kenny Boynton, Patric Young, Michael Frazier II, Corey Brewer, David Lee, they've all excelled under him. Anyone who has a clear cut, defined role that fits into his offense will be a good piece of the puzzle and have great success. Some candidates on the Thunder, IMO, who will have big seasons -- DJ Augustin, Enes Kanter (similar to the Al Horford role, however, he better be a factor on the defensive end), Anthony Morrow, Serge Ibaka. I think Serge Ibaka will have his best all around season this year under Donovan. Similar to how Noah was used.

Now, onto the weaknesses and things that I have BIG question marks about.

His rotations/heavy minutes on star players:

Outside of two or maybe three guys off the bench, he does not rely on a deep bench. He sticks with a rotation that works, and if he does have to sub one of his main guys out, he'll sub them out for maybe a minute or two at a time to get them a quick blow. Speights never got a whole lot of playing time with the Gators. I didn't even think he would go to the NBA, but scouts realized he had a lot of talent and he was a projected first rounder. He never showed a whole lot while at Florida.

Getting the most out of potential stars:

First, Billy never landed a lot of high profile recruits. Brad Beal, Chris Walker, and Kasey Hill are really the only players that come to mind off the top of my head. While he gets a lot out of role players, stars tend to get the s**t end of the stick, especially the stars who need the ball in their hands to be successful. The ball HAS to move in his offense. He doesn't just run straight pick and roll and dribble the hell out of the ball and if you're that type of player, you don't want to go to Florida. It's why guys like Brandon Knight, Anthony Bennett and others have initially committed/leaned towards the Gators but ended up going elsewhere. You look at Brad Beal while he was there for a year, he deferred, played within the system and a lot of critics said he wasn't aggressive enough. While that was partly true, he didn't have the freedom in Billy's system to be the star player it was suggested he could be. It wasn't until late in the tournament that he started to come on.

Chandler Parsons is another example. When he came to Florida and developed his game, he had the potential to really be the number one option. Didn't happen, he looked like an average player that would be drafted in the second round and be out the league within years. He gets drafted second round, goes to Houston, became a major player and a lot of Florida fans just weren't surprised by that.

Chris Walker, Kasey Hill are other examples in recent history the past couple seasons. Both came in as projected lottery picks. Kasey Hill has completely fell off the map, will be returning for his third year. With Chris Walker, I think this is Billy Donovan's biggest Florida disappointment. He came in as a projected major talent and yes, I know he had academic issues, seniors ahead of him and that sort the first year, but he hardly saw the court this season. He was projected to be a major player. Instead, he didn't "buy in", Billy Donovan refused to use him as anything more than a screen setter, and now a potential star player probably won't even catch on to a team. This is a guy that should have been developed a lot better, not make one mistake and not see the court the rest of the game.

- He's stubborn.

Billy Donovan has a philosophy offensively and defensively and he hasn't shown the flexibility to change it for anyone. Unlike most coaches who run a system based off the strengths of their players, he doesn't. He has his system and you better abide by it.

Defensively, I really hope he has flexibility with this, is his full court press/trap defense. In an 82 game season, with 48 minute games, it would be physically impossible to have a deep playoff run if he uses this with as much regularity as he does at Florida. I don't know how much he can refrain from it, because it's what he's known for, but I have a really hard time believing professionals making millions of dollars are going to do this as frequently as college kids.

------------

There's my thoughts. A good college coach, but there's always been some things about Billy Donovan that I haven't liked at all and those couple issues (minutes, not using his bench, inability to get more out of stars, plays by a set system instead of playing to strengths) are the biggest question marks I have about him being a professional coach.
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Re: Billy Donovan... 

Post#66 » by TylersLakers » Thu Apr 30, 2015 3:04 pm

Ah, final thoughts.

Kevin Durant will have his best all around season -- his scoring may go down a bit, but he'll be a great all around player offensively and defensively. He doesn't dribble the hell out of the ball and he's versatile. Look at Corey Brewer and the success he had while playing for Donovan. Corey Brewer is no KD, not even close. This could be how Phil Jackson was for Michael Jordan.

Good bye Westbrook. I don't see a fit at all. He's an attack player at the PG spot and name me ONE player like that under Donovan. There's been none. I have a hard time believing Russ with his aggressive nature is going to be content with playing hot potato with the ball to get someone ELSE a good shot. If I was the Thunder, I would quietly begin shopping Westbrook around to see what you could get. If he stays, Billy has GOT to make some changes offensively, but he hasn't done that to this point, so why would he now?

(by the way, Billy Donovan looooooves Julius Randle, justsayin. Randle and our 2 first round picks (one top 5) for Westbrook?)

Same thing with Dion Waiters. I don't see a fit. Needs the ball in his hands to be effective.

Like I mentioned above, Serge Ibaka will have a huge year. As well, I think Augustin, Lamb, Morrow and Kanter could have very good seasons as well.
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Re: Billy Donovan... 

Post#67 » by Thundestruck » Thu Apr 30, 2015 3:09 pm

Funny, I read one Florida fan whose one knock on Donovan was that he sometimes gave his PGs too much control.
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Re: Billy Donovan... 

Post#68 » by bondom34 » Thu Apr 30, 2015 3:09 pm

I'd disagree w/ Russ, he's said in the past multiple times he just wants to win. I'd highly highly doubt there's an issue, and if KD stays, he does too. Did you really just give a coach bio then toss out a crummy trade offer? :lol:

Thanks for the bio though!
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Re: Billy Donovan... 

Post#69 » by KD35Brah » Thu Apr 30, 2015 3:23 pm

TylersLakers wrote:Ah, final thoughts.

Kevin Durant will have his best all around season -- his scoring may go down a bit, but he'll be a great all around player offensively and defensively. He doesn't dribble the hell out of the ball and he's versatile. Look at Corey Brewer and the success he had while playing for Donovan. Corey Brewer is no KD, not even close. This could be how Phil Jackson was for Michael Jordan.

Good bye Westbrook. I don't see a fit at all. He's an attack player at the PG spot and name me ONE player like that under Donovan. There's been none. I have a hard time believing Russ with his aggressive nature is going to be content with playing hot potato with the ball to get someone ELSE a good shot. If I was the Thunder, I would quietly begin shopping Westbrook around to see what you could get. If he stays, Billy has GOT to make some changes offensively, but he hasn't done that to this point, so why would he now?

(by the way, Billy Donovan looooooves Julius Randle, justsayin. Randle and our 2 first round picks (one top 5) for Westbrook?)

Same thing with Dion Waiters. I don't see a fit. Needs the ball in his hands to be effective.

Like I mentioned above, Serge Ibaka will have a huge year. As well, I think Augustin, Lamb, Morrow and Kanter could have very good seasons as well.
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Re: Billy Donovan... 

Post#70 » by bondom34 » Thu Apr 30, 2015 3:27 pm

And more info:

http://www.basketballinsiders.com/nba-a ... -be-great/

League sources often joked that Brooks was Presti’s guy because he’d allow Presti to have a huge amount of input into the entire process, much more input than almost any other coach would allow. As Brooks gained more and more comfort in his role, his willingness to be steered, in many ways, diminished.

With Donovan on tap as the next guy, there is a sense that Presti feels a better bond and connection with his long-time friend and that Donovan possess some characteristics that Brooks does not. Donovan is a more “in your face” kind of coach and while that may not translate as well in the NBA as it does in college, there is a sense that Donovan is more willing to be “on the team” in terms of overall vision and process and will be more aggressive with his players.

The burning question is what does this mean for the Thunder roster?

Not much in the short term. Donovan was chosen because he believes in the ability of the current core guys and there is a sense that Presti feels like there is another level his group can play at, hence the decision to make a change.

Presti and the Thunder management have not consulted with their players, mainly because those players have given their endorsement to Presti on the decision making process, whatever it ends up being.

Word is that Donovan, prior to accepting a deal, wants to have a conversation with his new core players to make sure they are all working from the same script. While that sounds like a hurdle, sources close to the process say it’s simply one of several steps in making a deal and Donovan talking with the Thunder players is not at all uncommon especially as a deal gets closer, a lot of coaches make that request.

As for the long-term outlook on the roster, there has been an understanding that the future of Kevin Durant next summer and Russell Westbrook the summer after that will be directly connected with how the team does this upcoming season, hence the urgency to make a change.

The belief around the league is that if the Thunder are a 55-60 win team next year and playing deep into the postseason, they have a real shot at retaining Durant long-term and that could lead to a new long-term deal with Westbrook as well. If the Thunder endures another sub-50 win season or an early exit in the postseason, all bets are off on Durant.


Its all good.
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Re: Billy Donovan... 

Post#71 » by Thundestruck » Thu Apr 30, 2015 3:33 pm

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Re: Billy Donovan... 

Post#72 » by KD35Brah » Thu Apr 30, 2015 3:37 pm

TylersLakers wrote:Ah, final thoughts.

Kevin Durant will have his best all around season -- his scoring may go down a bit, but he'll be a great all around player offensively and defensively. He doesn't dribble the hell out of the ball and he's versatile. Look at Corey Brewer and the success he had while playing for Donovan. Corey Brewer is no KD, not even close. This could be how Phil Jackson was for Michael Jordan.

Good bye Westbrook. I don't see a fit at all. He's an attack player at the PG spot and name me ONE player like that under Donovan. There's been none. I have a hard time believing Russ with his aggressive nature is going to be content with playing hot potato with the ball to get someone ELSE a good shot. If I was the Thunder, I would quietly begin shopping Westbrook around to see what you could get. If he stays, Billy has GOT to make some changes offensively, but he hasn't done that to this point, so why would he now?

(by the way, Billy Donovan looooooves Julius Randle, justsayin. Randle and our 2 first round picks (one top 5) for Westbrook?)

Same thing with Dion Waiters. I don't see a fit. Needs the ball in his hands to be effective.

Like I mentioned above, Serge Ibaka will have a huge year. As well, I think Augustin, Lamb, Morrow and Kanter could have very good seasons as well.
I also watched this video a couple days ago, this kinda says the opposite.

[youtube]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KPftBou4VuI[/youtube]
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Re: Billy Donovan... 

Post#73 » by Chuck Everett » Thu Apr 30, 2015 4:09 pm

If Donovan were to be inflexible with Westbrook, then why bring him in, in the first place? Wasn't firing Brooks due to his lack of evolution and not wanting to adapt? Donovan is going to have to be willing to change his philosophies to fit the assembled roster for this to work.
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Re: Billy Donovan... 

Post#74 » by Thundestruck » Thu Apr 30, 2015 4:15 pm

Donovan won't be inflexible. You take this job with the thought you are fundamentally going to change Russ as a player.
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Re: Billy Donovan... 

Post#75 » by KD35Brah » Thu Apr 30, 2015 4:17 pm

[tweet]https://twitter.com/WojYahooNBA/status/593805365415936000[/tweet]

So he already had the meeting with KD, Russ, and Serge?
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Re: Billy Donovan... 

Post#76 » by bondom34 » Thu Apr 30, 2015 4:27 pm

KD35Brah wrote:[tweet]https://twitter.com/WojYahooNBA/status/593805365415936000[/tweet]

So he already had the meeting with KD, Russ, and Serge?

Don't think he was going to. Seems done, I'm good w/ it.
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Re: Billy Donovan... 

Post#77 » by Pillendreher » Thu Apr 30, 2015 4:30 pm

I can't imagine him neglecting Westbrook. Screw his system if he can't use the 3rd best player in the league.
"I don't know of any player that, when the shot goes up, he doesn't want it to go in," Donovan said
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Re: Billy Donovan... 

Post#78 » by Thunderhead » Thu Apr 30, 2015 4:42 pm

I would put my money on Donovan adapting his " system " to Russ , before he tries to adapt Russ to his " system " .
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Re: Billy Donovan... 

Post#79 » by youngtea » Thu Apr 30, 2015 4:47 pm

Offensively you don't have to be complex with OKC. Defensively is where Donovan needs to improve this team. A top 10 defensive team and add Russ and KD on the offensive side. Championship team.
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Re: Billy Donovan... 

Post#80 » by truth18 » Thu Apr 30, 2015 4:47 pm

I'm confused. Did Presti consult Durant and Westbrook or not? I've heard conflicting reports.
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