Carmelo Anthony to OKC for Enes Kanter, Doug McDermott and a draft pick

[spearsy23]

It's pretty bad. But that won't matter much come playoff time

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It was the difference in our playoff series last year.

[hardenASG13]

People saying we can challenge the warriors need to slow down a bit. They still have 4 of the top 6 players and fit a ton better. Plus our bench is absolute trash. We can challenge the spurs and rockets now, maybe even Cleveland, we're still two tiers behind golden state.

You could also just as easily say they have 4 of the top 7, assuming you are saying melo is not in the top 6, because he'd be 7th. That's not nearly as impressive. Adams, patterson,abrines, Roberson, and grant aren't terrible, and in my opinion Felton and Canaan could both run competent minutes 8 minutes a night. Warriors cast after their big 4 is getting older, and is iguodala, livingston, pachulia
Young, and west.....Thats not 2 tiers better. In fact, id say OKC is arguably better after the top 7 combined.

[slick_watts]

grant and abrines are bad. felton is bad. canaan is bad. paul george, barring a return to pre-injury form, is a tier below westbrook-durant-curry-draymond.

carmelo is better than kanter, but is he even a top 50 player in the nba anymore?

imo draymond green gets criminally underrated (while thompson tends to get overrated) when discussing the warriors' top end strength. he's up there with curry and durant.

[bondom34]

I don't think many if any think Klay is better than Dray still. As for Kanter vs. Melo, the difference to me is just that Melo's playable in the playoffs, Kanter's not.

[spearsy23]

People saying we can challenge the warriors need to slow down a bit. They still have 4 of the top 6 players and fit a ton better. Plus our bench is absolute trash. We can challenge the spurs and rockets now, maybe even Cleveland, we're still two tiers behind golden state.

You could also just as easily say they have 4 of the top 7, assuming you are saying melo is not in the top 6, because he'd be 7th. That's not nearly as impressive. Adams, patterson,abrines, Roberson, and grant aren't terrible, and in my opinion Felton and Canaan could both run competent minutes 8 minutes a night. Warriors cast after their big 4 is getting older, and is iguodala, livingston, pachulia
Young, and west.....Thats not 2 tiers better. In fact, id say OKC is arguably better after the top 7 combined.

You could just as easily say they have 3 of the top 4. I avoided doing it because it's not an argument I feel like having, but there's a good case that draymond is more impactful than George. It goes beyond that though, Curry/Cupcake/Russ are all on one tier, with cupcake being the clear best player. Draymond/George are in a second tier and Klay is in a third. Melo is well below all of them. And their supporting cast is leagues better.

[hardenASG13]

People saying we can challenge the warriors need to slow down a bit. They still have 4 of the top 6 players and fit a ton better. Plus our bench is absolute trash. We can challenge the spurs and rockets now, maybe even Cleveland, we're still two tiers behind golden state.

You could also just as easily say they have 4 of the top 7, assuming you are saying melo is not in the top 6, because he'd be 7th. That's not nearly as impressive. Adams, patterson,abrines, Roberson, and grant aren't terrible, and in my opinion Felton and Canaan could both run competent minutes 8 minutes a night. Warriors cast after their big 4 is getting older, and is iguodala, livingston, pachulia
Young, and west.....Thats not 2 tiers better. In fact, id say OKC is arguably better after the top 7 combined.

You could just as easily say they have 3 of the top 4. I avoided doing it because it's not an argument I feel like having, but there's a good case that draymond is more impactful than George. It goes beyond that though, Curry/Cupcake/Russ are all on one tier, with cupcake being the clear best player. Draymond/George are in a second tier and Klay is in a third. Melo is well below all of them. And their supporting cast is leagues better.

Yep, Mr. 100 million is gonna hafta make more of a consistent impact.

[slick_watts]

I don't think many if any think Klay is better than Dray still. As for Kanter vs. Melo, the difference to me is just that Melo's playable in the playoffs, Kanter's not.

the biggest difference to me is melo can make threes.

[bondom34]

I don't think many if any think Klay is better than Dray still. As for Kanter vs. Melo, the difference to me is just that Melo's playable in the playoffs, Kanter's not.

the biggest difference to me is melo can make threes.

Didn't you hear Kanter was practicing them.

[Funcrusher]

grant and abrines are bad. felton is bad. canaan is bad. paul george, barring a return to pre-injury form, is a tier below westbrook-durant-curry-draymond.

carmelo is better than kanter, but is he even a top 50 player in the nba anymore?

imo draymond green gets criminally underrated (while thompson tends to get overrated) when discussing the warriors' top end strength. he's up there with curry and durant.

I disagree entirely. In terms of the bench, you're making assumptions about players that are simply question marks. Grant is meh, but Abrines is a question mark and so is Felton, based on past performance and potential future development. Don't know about Canaan but ffs, he's a backup's-backup point guard, expectations shouldn't be anything more than not running the second unit into the ground, basically being anti-semaj.

Draymond Green is not better than Paul George. He's just not. I get it, he runs the show, anchors the defense, ultimate glue guy, he's not better than Paul George. And I'm taking into account that certain advanced metrics don't paint George in a favorable light, but I think too many people are making him out to be a glorified allstar. He had a relatively middling season for his talent last year but he's legit a consistent 2 way threat.

Carmelo's also a question mark. Based on last year I wouldn't say he's a top 50 player, but two years ago he had a much better season, and to be fair, he's had to face an incredible amount of turmoil and turnover last year which quite possibly affected his game.

I'm not gonna say this team is a true contender, meaning they can beat GSW, but I think there are a lot of question marks in this roster that will simply have to prove themselves on the court. We can only speculate about these guys to a certain point.

[slick_watts]

I disagree entirely. In terms of the bench, you're making assumptions about players that are simply question marks. Grant is meh, but Abrines is a question mark and so is Felton, based on past performance and potential future development. Don't know about Canaan but ffs, he's a backup's-backup point guard, expectations shouldn't be anything more than not running the second unit into the ground, basically being anti-semaj.

we can argue about future development (at least, re: abrines & grant) but for now? these aren't assumptions. this is a statement on their value based on what we know. the assumption would be projecting anything different.

patrick patterson is the ray of light on our bench; the status of his knee is going to be crucial to the team's success.

Draymond Green is not better than Paul George. He's just not

not only is green a skilled player offensively but he also anchored the #2 defense in the nba last year. paul george may have been comparable in years past, but no longer. george has been a different player since his injury.

i don't think you're taking into account any metrics, or any objective data on this one. they would all point to draymond as vastly superior.

Carmelo's also a question mark. Based on last year I wouldn't say he's a top 50 player, but two years ago he had a much better season, and to be fair, he's had to face an incredible amount of turmoil and turnover last year which quite possibly affected his game.

or, he's 34 years old with 35k+ minutes under his belt and experiencing a natural decline.

We can only speculate about these guys to a certain point.

who is speculating? i'm just stating what we know. could things be different? yeah. right now though, jerami grant and abrines are scrubs, felton is a scrub, patterson's an elite role player, melo is an average stater, and george is a tier below draymond green.

[Funcrusher]

Draymond Green is not better than Paul George. He's just not

not only is green a skilled player offensively but he also anchored the #2 defense in the nba last year. paul george may have been comparable in years past, but no longer. george has been a different player since his injury.

i don't think you're taking into account any metrics, or any objective data on this one. they would all point to draymond as vastly superior.

For the past two years Paul George has 16 win shares. Draymond has 19. George's combined VORP over those two seasons is 7.8. Draymond's is 11.1. DBPM is in Draymond's favor, but in terms of OBPM, George is combined 6.6 to Draymond's 2.5. And keep in mind that George's usage rate is, and has always been, significantly higher than Draymond.

So basically, Paul George has slightly less projected value than Draymond while offensively producing at a vastly higher volume, with similar ts%, eFG% to boot, and being a bit less impactful defensively. And, not to mention, PG-13's PIE was 43rd in the league last year, and, get this, 17th in the league two years before. Both higher than Draymond. Paul George is better.

[kdthunderup]

Of course the Warriors are favourites by a country mile, but they have had a blessed injury run the past few years and all it will take is an injury to Curry or KD to bring them right back down from their own tier to the rest of the pack.

[slick_watts]

For the past two years Paul George has 16 win shares. Draymond has 19. George's combined VORP over those two seasons is 7.8. Draymond's is 11.1.

ok, what? this appears to me as a significant advantage, that would increase if we controlled for minutes. and these are boxscore based stats where paul george really should have a relative advantage.

and if we turn to any rpm based metric, draymond blows paul george out of the water. this seems to be proving my point...?

So basically, Paul George has slightly less projected value than Draymond

is that your takeaway from their VORP and WS?

and being a bit less impactful defensively.

a bit? can you qualify this statement? draymond is one of the best defensive players in the nba, among the top 10. where do you believe paul george ranks?

[Funcrusher]

For the past two years Paul George has 16 win shares. Draymond has 19. George's combined VORP over those two seasons is 7.8. Draymond's is 11.1.

ok, what? this appears to me as a significant advantage, that would increase if we controlled for minutes. and these are boxscore based stats where paul george really should have a relative advantage.

and if we turn to any rpm based metric, draymond blows paul george out of the water. this seems to be proving my point...?

So basically, Paul George has slightly less projected value than Draymond

is that your takeaway from their VORP and WS?

and being a bit less impactful defensively.

a bit? can you qualify this statement? draymond is one of the best defensive players in the nba, among the top 10. where do you believe paul george ranks?

Sorry, my point was not made clear, and i wasn't trying to say those differences weren't significant.

I'm saying that Draymond is required to do far less than George, therefore his metrics seem better because he's put in a position/system to be at his most effective. Paul George isn't as good defensively as Draymond, but he provides solid D with high level offense. Hence, his PER and PIE over the last few years have been higher than Draymond over the past few years.

I think the reason for George's relative disadvantage in advanced metrics is because George doesn't particularly do any one thing great. Besides assists and rebounding, every aspect of his game is just really good. He's a far more complete package than Draymond, who has certain attributes of his game that are accentuated by playing in GS system.

[slick_watts]

I'm saying that Draymond is required to do far less than George

you know, i disagree here. draymond is asked to anchor an elite defense, while george's responsibilities on that end had trailed off somewhat. on offense, draymond handles the ball frequently in the high post where the offense goes through him routinely. he spots up often. yes, his usage is far lower than george, and his responsibility on that end is less-- overall though? i think you're seriously short changing draymond on defense.

Paul George isn't as good defensively as Draymond, but he provides solid D with high level offense. Hence, his PER and PIE over the last few years have been higher than Draymond over the past few years.

PER isn't really in the business of measuring defensive impact beyond basic boxscore counting stats, is it? there's no surprise george is superior on those since they favor higher usage scoring and counting stat productivity. an accurate assessment of george and draymond's defensive game cannot be made by these metrics in my opinion.

I think the reason for George's relative disadvantage in advanced metrics is because George doesn't particularly do any one thing great. Besides assists and rebounding, every aspect of his game is just really good. He's a far more complete package than Draymond, who has certain attributes of his game that are accentuated by playing in GS system.

i think the relative disadvantage for george is that any metric that moves away from boxscore counting stats, and especially ones that have plus-minus components, draymond shoots up the rankings. i don't even think it's a contest. just on defense alone, the difference between these two players is so dramatic as to not even warrant a serious comparison unless george was closer to russ / curry / kd on the offensive end-- which he is not.

[Kizz Fastfists]

Of course the Warriors are favourites by a country mile, but they have had a blessed injury run the past few years and all it will take is an injury to Curry or KD to bring them right back down from their own tier to the rest of the pack.

They had to deal with kd being injured last year and it didn't slow them down. Curry was hurt for the first half of the 2016 playoffs and it didn't slow them down. They can be without anyone and get through the first round. They can be without anyone other than Curry or Draymond and beat their 2nd round opponent, although probably not in 4 games. They will need to be healthy to have a clear advantage in the WCF and Finals.

It is still GS as the clear favorite then a pack of Houston, SA, Cleveland and OKC. That doesn't mean Abrines couldn't take a big jump and Wade get added and the effect of that push OKC to being the clear #2 team. I could see them using Wade as the backup PG if they can get him. Wade's game is similar enough to Russ' that it would be the same type of player running the offense. Yes, Wade is a lite version of Russ at this point, but that doesn't change the ability for them to run the offense the same way.

[Ontario]

Russ > Steph
George < KD
Melo > Klay
Adams < Draymond
Roberson < Iggy
PP > Zaza
Felton vs. Livingston is a wash

This is probably the best roster the Thunder/Sonics have had since the 1993-1996 era, we might still be behind the GSW but not a lot. What I like about our chances is that everyone on our roster is hungry and there is nothing to lose.

[Ontario]

It is still GS as the clear favorite then a pack of Houston, SA, Cleveland and OKC. That doesn't mean Abrines couldn't take a big jump and Wade get added and the effect of that push OKC to being the clear #2 team. I could see them using Wade as the backup PG if they can get him. Wade's game is similar enough to Russ' that it would be the same type of player running the offense. Yes, Wade is a lite version of Russ at this point, but that doesn't change the ability for them to run the offense the same way.

Hey Kizz, I'm guessing this weekend has moved the Thunder to 8th in the West in your eyes?

[slick_watts]

several thunder teams were better than this one. 2013 thunder for sure. 2012, 2014, 2016-- closer, but premature.

carmelo anthony better than klay thompson? heh.

[Dadouv47]

People are underrating Klay Thompson big time. He's in the same tier as Draymond and George, even if he worse than both of them.