11/29 - POSTGAME | Oklahoma City Thunder (108) - (121) Orlando Magic

[ThunderBolt]

I think Russ is a big part of why we gave up 121 points to the Magic. Russ and Melo. Our defensive rotations suck.

Yup. Russ was beyond atrocious on defense last night. Payton was getting middle penetration at will, particularly off any sort of action that started at the slot.

Also did no one read the scouting report on Gordon actually being able to shoot now? We were ducking under and helping off him one pass away at times.

I listened to a little bit of the pregame and Russ keeps mentioning defense. He brings it up on his own so obviously he’s not in denial that it’s important. Do the coaches not have the guts to show him video or what he’s doing wrong or does he really think he’s doing his part?

[Old Man Game]

I think Russ is a big part of why we gave up 121 points to the Magic. Russ and Melo. Our defensive rotations suck.

Yup. Russ was beyond atrocious on defense last night. Payton was getting middle penetration at will, particularly off any sort of action that started at the slot.

Also did no one read the scouting report on Gordon actually being able to shoot now? We were ducking under and helping off him one pass away at times.

I listened to a little bit of the pregame and Russ keeps mentioning defense. He brings it up on his own so obviously he’s not in denial that it’s important. Do the coaches not have the guts to show him video or what he’s doing wrong or does he really think he’s doing his part?

I remember I think it was last year he had a quote about 'defense is about trust' or something like that. Which I thought was pretty rich coming from him. In his mind he honestly expects everyone else to rotate and help so he can go freelancing for steals and even when he's not doing that he can step aside and funnel his man almost straight to the basket and then point at someone else as if, 'where was the help?'

[Dadouv47]

tbh Russ defense this year has been way better than last year. Last night he sucked big time that's for sure.

I'm more concerned about our offense inability and lack of scoring from the bench

[ThunderBolt]

Yup. Russ was beyond atrocious on defense last night. Payton was getting middle penetration at will, particularly off any sort of action that started at the slot.

Also did no one read the scouting report on Gordon actually being able to shoot now? We were ducking under and helping off him one pass away at times.

I listened to a little bit of the pregame and Russ keeps mentioning defense. He brings it up on his own so obviously he’s not in denial that it’s important. Do the coaches not have the guts to show him video or what he’s doing wrong or does he really think he’s doing his part?

I remember I think it was last year he had a quote about 'defense is about trust' or something like that. Which I thought was pretty rich coming from him. In his mind he honestly expects everyone else to rotate and help so he can go freelancing for steals and even when he's not doing that he can step aside and funnel his man almost straight to the basket and then point at someone else as if, 'where was the help?'

A few games back in one of the game threads I made a post about Russ getting burned on and defense. He immediately got mad and yelled something at Dre as if it was his fault.

[bondom34]

Didn't they say a few games back the ducking screens is planned? Its dumb but I thought o remember that.

[Andre Roberstan]

Didn't they say a few games back the ducking screens is planned? Its dumb but I thought o remember that.

Dave Dufour thinks it's Donovan covering for Russ. But Dave also says the Thunder's main problem is that the organization hasn't empowered Donovan, which is a very coach-centric way to look at it (and not really grounded in reality anywhere but maybe San Antonio, where Pop is an institution unto himself). It's a players' league.

[bondom34]

Didn't they say a few games back the ducking screens is planned? Its dumb but I thought o remember that.

Dave Dufour thinks it's Donovan covering for Russ. But Dave also says the Thunder's main problem is that the organization hasn't empowered Donovan, which is a very coach-centric way to look at it (and not really grounded in reality anywhere but maybe San Antonio, where Pop is an institution unto himself). It's a players' league.

Hes a bbb guy right?

Also saw you have cleaning the glass too. Any tips?

[Andre Roberstan]

Didn't they say a few games back the ducking screens is planned? Its dumb but I thought o remember that.

Dave Dufour thinks it's Donovan covering for Russ. But Dave also says the Thunder's main problem is that the organization hasn't empowered Donovan, which is a very coach-centric way to look at it (and not really grounded in reality anywhere but maybe San Antonio, where Pop is an institution unto himself). It's a players' league.

Hes a bbb guy right?

Also saw you have cleaning the glass too. Any tips?

I just got it. Finally had to bite the bullet.

If anyone has access, there are some interesting points brought up in the discussion thread for Ben's recent OKC article.

https://community.cleaningtheglass.com/t/a-stormy-start/2314/11

[bondom34]

Dave Dufour thinks it's Donovan covering for Russ. But Dave also says the Tmhunder's main problem is that the organization hasn't empowered Donovan, which is a very coach-centric way to look at it (and not really grounded in reality anywhere but maybe San Antonio, where Pop is an institution unto himself). It's a players' league.

Hes a bbb guy right?

Also saw you have cleaning the glass too. Any tips?

I just got it. Finally had to bite the bullet.

If anyone has access, there are some interesting points brought up in the discussion thread for Ben's recent OKC article.

https://community.cleaningtheglass.com/t/a-stormy-start/2314/11

I was debating it and realized my parents had asked what I wanted for Xmas. Really hoping to dig in this weekend if I can get myself to care about basketball lol

[Pillendreher]

Damn, you guys are gonna talk me into getting it as well....

Can't we just share an account? Bondom's parents are paying anyway

[NOOB77]

There were some real bad defense adjustments or lack there of in the game last night.

1- Roberson should have been on Gordon from the start. He is too fast for Melo and too strong for PG. Roberson is in the lineup for defense he should have been on him. At least that would have taken the 3s away from him and made him a post player.

2- The pick and roll defense last night was awful. There were no adjustments made by our coaching staff. They knew the switch was coming and just abused Adams when he was switched to a faster player. Or the player ran into the screen and Adams was late coming to challenge and gave up multiple open looks at the 3 point line. Switch to a trap? No switch? Trail over the screen? There was none of this.


Also think the coach messed up the rotations when he started using PG with the bench instead of Melo.

[Andre Roberstan]

Hes a bbb guy right?

Also saw you have cleaning the glass too. Any tips?

I just got it. Finally had to bite the bullet.

If anyone has access, there are some interesting points brought up in the discussion thread for Ben's recent OKC article.

https://community.cleaningtheglass.com/t/a-stormy-start/2314/11

I was debating it and realized my parents had asked what I wanted for Xmas. Really hoping to dig in this weekend if I can get myself to care about basketball lol

Oh, and yeah, Dave is a BBallBreakdown guy (doesn't mean much, so is James Holas, and he's a big Russ fan). Nick and Dave aren't as bad if you know where they're coming from. There's still value to be gleaned there.

[spearsy23]

Complaining about Russ's defense on the season as a whole is like complaining it's hot when the house is on fire.

[ThunderBolt]

Complaining about Russ's defense on the season as a whole is like complaining it's hot when the house is on fire.

Good comparison with the exception of a house being what’s on fire. Might I suggest this?

[spearsy23]

I just got it. Finally had to bite the bullet.

If anyone has access, there are some interesting points brought up in the discussion thread for Ben's recent OKC article.

https://community.cleaningtheglass.com/t/a-stormy-start/2314/11

I was debating it and realized my parents had asked what I wanted for Xmas. Really hoping to dig in this weekend if I can get myself to care about basketball lol

Oh, and yeah, Dave is a BBallBreakdown guy (doesn't mean much, so is James Holas, and he's a big Russ fan). Nick and Dave aren't as bad if you know where they're coming from. There's still value to be gleaned there.

The only thing I know about dufour is that during the draft his analysis was basically 'I don't really know much about this guy but I like/don't like him."

Nick's value is in video editing ( I'm assuming he actually does it). And even that is suspect because he's cherry picking plays to fit his narrative. He starts with a premise usually based on his bias and works from there. He's been a Russ hater since he started, rides Curry's dick, and is an LA fan (and Ball in particular because he 'plays the right way'). His analysis is pretty mediocre as well, nothing the average hardcore NBA fan couldn't do given the time and editing skills. And, as always, his coaching experience is limited to high school JV.

[bondom34]

I'm wondering if and when any changes are made. Weird thing is I don't see it happening. Just ride it out.

[Andre Roberstan]

I was debating it and realized my parents had asked what I wanted for Xmas. Really hoping to dig in this weekend if I can get myself to care about basketball lol

Oh, and yeah, Dave is a BBallBreakdown guy (doesn't mean much, so is James Holas, and he's a big Russ fan). Nick and Dave aren't as bad if you know where they're coming from. There's still value to be gleaned there.

The only thing I know about dufour is that during the draft his analysis was basically 'I don't really know much about this guy but I like/don't like him."

Nick's value is in video editing ( I'm assuming he actually does it). And even that is suspect because he's cherry picking plays to fit his narrative. He starts with a premise usually based on his bias and works from there. He's been a Russ hater since he started, rides Curry's dick, and is an LA fan (and Ball in particular because he 'plays the right way'). His analysis is pretty mediocre as well, nothing the average hardcore NBA fan couldn't do given the time and editing skills. And, as always, his coaching experience is limited to high school JV.

Most of the guys that have any coaching experience love guys that "play the right way" even if they're worse. And coaches that run intricate stuff. Just know they're coming at it with that bias.

[Pillendreher]

I'm wondering if and when any changes are made. Weird thing is I don't see it happening. Just ride it out.

I got you

[ozwizard8]

Wait, BD is still the coach ? Thunder organization still hasn't fired him ? I thought I was gonna read that first when i wake up here in Europe ...

Whose fault is it that the players ain't buyin in ?

Whose fault is it that the players aren't put in a different situation than the one where they showed they can't perform their best ?

That idiot was talking about how he likes to put his players in discomfort situations, is this one of those discomforts ?

Yeah, great job ...

There is no other solution than firing Donovan.

They cant tank unless WB gets injured for season. They cant trade him either.

Melo wont be easy to trade. You probably wont get any good piece for him.
PG's contract expiring. He doesnt have much value either.

So trading those players doesnt make much sense. It might not possible to cut salary through trade too. So even financially there isnt much reasons to do it. On top of all, Presti and upper management wouldnt want to take the lost.
After all Presti give some young players to acquire those 2 stars.
----

Trade scenarios are unlikely. Owners wont want to miss playoffs with that payroll. GM wont want to take a loss in his WIN-NOW plan.

There is no other solution than firing BD.I do believe he is one to blame. Even if you think he is a decent coach you gotta admit that its not working. Blame players for lack of effort. Blame GM to put a bad fit team together. At the end of the day, changing players/gm isnt viable option.

Sooner or later they need to fire him.
Maybe they force him to change whole defensive scheme and some part of offensive scheme, rotations.

I think losing those easy games always related to coaching issues.
Thunder always need to do things in harder ways.
Players would get motivated if coach lift their game up to another level. Player would give more effort if they see the return of their effort. Good coach would get wins in those Dallas-Sacremento games without 3 stars of us.

[ozwizard8]

To understand Billy Donovan's coaching we can look at the players.

Is there a single player performs better than how he would play for another team?
PG-WB can play better with other coaches. Melo is coming from another dysfunctioning team(triangle).
Even Adams plays bad. Almost every player performs lower than how they would play under other coaches.

Its a good metric to see coachs contribution.
He makes every player worse.