4/3 - POSTGAME | Golden State Warriors (111) - (107) Oklahoma City Thunder

[ThunderBolt]

I think that's the disappointing part beyond the season. The losses are whatever now, I expect them. But I don't see a realistic change for the better this summer. If I had to guess PG out, Melo and Donovan stay and a lack of draft pick means no real improvement next year.

Forget about no real improvement. We won’t sniff the playoffs next year

[Pillendreher]

Drain the swamp seems to be a good approach. I don't even care all that much anymore and that is saying something since I've spent hours fuming over this team.
Given how empty the arena looks this season, I guess the local fans don't care either.

sometimes things just get stale. this regime has been here awhile without winning anything. i'm not saying sam presti is bad or even that we could hire someone better than him. but it's simply time to move on and take another path. hit reset. it's going to suck for awhile, especially since they've wasted valuable assets fruitlessly trying to contend this season, but it's the right thing to do.

Stale is the best word in the English language to describe this team

yeah it's like everything that's going wrong or not working, you've been there before.

[bondom34]

sometimes things just get stale. this regime has been here awhile without winning anything. i'm not saying sam presti is bad or even that we could hire someone better than him. but it's simply time to move on and take another path. hit reset. it's going to suck for awhile, especially since they've wasted valuable assets fruitlessly trying to contend this season, but it's the right thing to do.

Stale is the best word in the English language to describe this team

yeah it's like everything that's going wrong or not working, you've been there before.

Weird thing is I think that's what got me. I never became really indifferent to them prior to this year. Its been by far the worst as a Thunder fan I've had despite more talent than last year and really even 2015 given injuries. Its just like the same game every night. Never changes even when the rotations randomly do change. Its weird.

[slick_watts]

Stale is the best word in the English language to describe this team

yeah it's like everything that's going wrong or not working, you've been there before.

Weird thing is I think that's what got me. I never became really indifferent to them prior to this year. Its been by far the worst as a Thunder fan I've had despite more talent than last year and really even 2015 given injuries. Its just like the same game every night. Never changes even when the rotations randomly do change. Its weird.

Russell Westbrook wouldn’t say whether or not he wishes he hadn’t taken the two airball 3s late in the fourth: “What you think?...You know me.”

change will only manifest top-down.

"be the change you want in this world", winston churchill

[bondom34]

yeah it's like everything that's going wrong or not working, you've been there before.

Weird thing is I think that's what got me. I never became really indifferent to them prior to this year. Its been by far the worst as a Thunder fan I've had despite more talent than last year and really even 2015 given injuries. Its just like the same game every night. Never changes even when the rotations randomly do change. Its weird.

Russell Westbrook wouldn’t say whether or not he wishes he hadn’t taken the two airball 3s late in the fourth: “What you think?...You know me.”

change will only manifest top-down.

"be the change you want in this world", winston churchill

So the coach. I agree.

And you want the ball in his hands late game. I don't know how mAny of those he won last year.

And honestly George is the one who needs to be better. Hes stunk

[slick_watts]

And you want the ball in his hands late game. I don't know how mAny of those he won last year.

come now. you and i both know the nature of clutch and small samples. that a 26% pull-up three point shooter, over the long run, is not more or less likely to make them in 'the clutch'.

this kind of tacit permissiveness by the organization for anything and everything westbrook does is a major problem. i'm glad the media questioned it. but nothing will change. westbrook has no impetus to change, and the thunder don't care.

[bondom34]

And you want the ball in his hands late game. I don't know how mAny of those he won last year.

come now. you and i both know the nature of clutch and small samples. that a 26% pull-up three point shooter, over the long run, is not more or less likely to make them in 'the clutch'.

this kind of tacit permissiveness by the organization for anything and everything westbrook does is a major problem. i'm glad the media questioned it. but nothing will change. westbrook has no impetus to change, and the thunder don't care.

Whatever you say. I'd continue the conversation if I'd rather repeatedly be kicked in the nuts. As usual, its Westbrooks fault. Because you said so

[slick_watts]

And you want the ball in his hands late game. I don't know how mAny of those he won last year.

come now. you and i both know the nature of clutch and small samples. that a 26% pull-up three point shooter, over the long run, is not more or less likely to make them in 'the clutch'.

this kind of tacit permissiveness by the organization for anything and everything westbrook does is a major problem. i'm glad the media questioned it. but nothing will change. westbrook has no impetus to change, and the thunder don't care.

Whatever you say. I'd continue the conversation if I'd rather repeatedly be kicked in the nuts. As usual, its Westbrooks fault. Because you said so

it's more complex than that.

[Dadouv47]

And you want the ball in his hands late game. I don't know how mAny of those he won last year.

come now. you and i both know the nature of clutch and small samples. that a 26% pull-up three point shooter, over the long run, is not more or less likely to make them in 'the clutch'.

this kind of tacit permissiveness by the organization for anything and everything westbrook does is a major problem. i'm glad the media questioned it. but nothing will change. westbrook has no impetus to change, and the thunder don't care.

While I totally agree with you, his shooting percentage increase when he's focused against a great team (also because he takes better shots). I'm upset about Westbrook taking a 3 against Denver when he could make a 2 to win the game, but against great teams he played pretty smart this season.

Anyway, Westbrook could cost us big wins and games, but so far he's carrying the team with Adams.

Melo is a mess but PG13 only played 2 good months before all star game and is even playing terrible defense lately. He missed some easy lay ups last night (thought it was Waiters playing).

[bondom34]

come now. you and i both know the nature of clutch and small samples. that a 26% pull-up three point shooter, over the long run, is not more or less likely to make them in 'the clutch'.

this kind of tacit permissiveness by the organization for anything and everything westbrook does is a major problem. i'm glad the media questioned it. but nothing will change. westbrook has no impetus to change, and the thunder don't care.

Whatever you say. I'd continue the conversation if I'd rather repeatedly be kicked in the nuts. As usual, its Westbrooks fault. Because you said so

it's more complex than that.

It really isn't. It was the baron, then he played well and you disappeared. Then whenever they lose its his fault. Its the same tired thing.

Just as this season became boring so it has reading the same people do this every chance they get, even if refuted by common logic.

[Pillendreher]

I think we can agree on this: Westbrook certainly has his flaws and I've had to stop myself from throwing the remote at my TV because of the same stupid **** he's been doing his whole career, but overall, this team's problems are bigger than Russ taking bad shots here and then. He's still easily the best thing about this team, even with his shortcomings in certain aspects.

[slick_watts]

It really isn't. It was the baron, then he played well and you disappeared.

i criticized his poor play when he was playing poorly. is that a problem? i disappeared? when? i toned down my criticism of westbrook here only because of the nonsense it causes. i made a joke and it was the end of the goddamned world.

Just as this season became boring so it has reading the same people do this every chance they get, even if refuted by common logic.

you ignore logic in the pursuit of some vindictive crusade against me. you know westbrook's clutch performances last year are an unreliable baseline for future expectations. you know that players don't suddenly become elite shooters during certain points in the game. and i think you know that westbrook attempting pull-up threes is sub-optimal no matter how george or others are shooting that particular game.

but this criticism of westbrook isn't allowed because it comes from me.

either have the conversation or don't.

[slick_watts]

I think we can agree on this: Westbrook certainly has his flaws and I've had to stop myself from throwing the remote at my TV because of the same stupid **** he's been doing his whole career, but overall, this team's problems are bigger than Russ taking bad shots here and then. He's still easily the best thing about this team, even with his shortcomings in certain aspects.

if we want to be a championship team then he needs to be more than 'easily the best thing about this team'. that's not saying much at the moment. and it's my belief that many of the team's problems are illustrative in their treatment of westbrook.

[Pillendreher]

I think we can agree on this: Westbrook certainly has his flaws and I've had to stop myself from throwing the remote at my TV because of the same stupid **** he's been doing his whole career, but overall, this team's problems are bigger than Russ taking bad shots here and then. He's still easily the best thing about this team, even with his shortcomings in certain aspects.

if we want to be a championship team then he needs to be more than 'easily the best thing about this team'. that's not saying much at the moment. and it's my belief that many of the team's problems are illustrative in their treatment of westbrook.

He needs to be better than he has been this season, I agree. But he's not the main culprit. This thing starts with coaching, then goes over to roster contruction and then somewhere down the line comes Westbrook and his tendencies. Wether Westbrook gambles or floats around on defense is not what's keeping us from where we should be (or at least want to be). He can't shoot for other players. He can't create offense for lineups that don't feature him.

He needs to be more dilligent and lead by example. But him doing that is not gonna be enough to actually improve (enough). When you get worse by 15 points per 100 possessions or so if you remove Andre Roberson from a lineup, there's a lot more wrong with you defensively than your point guard taking defensive plays off. And when you drop below 100 ORtG without him on the floor over the span of three seasons, there's a lot more wrong with your team's offense than taking too many pull ups.

[bondom34]

It really isn't. It was the baron, then he played well and you disappeared.

i criticized his poor play when he was playing poorly. is that a problem? i disappeared? when? i toned down my criticism of westbrook here only because of the nonsense it causes. i made a joke and it was the end of the goddamned world.

Just as this season became boring so it has reading the same people do this every chance they get, even if refuted by common logic.

you ignore logic in the pursuit of some vindictive crusade against me. you know westbrook's clutch performances last year are an unreliable baseline for future expectations. you know that players don't suddenly become elite shooters during certain points in the game. and i think you know that westbrook attempting pull-up threes is sub-optimal no matter how george or others are shooting that particular game.

but this criticism of westbrook isn't allowed because it comes from me.

either have the conversation or don't.

Criticism is fine. Illogical criticism isn't.

And I never tried to have the conversation

[slick_watts]

He needs to be better than he has been this season, I agree. But he's not the main culprit. This thing starts with coaching, then goes over to roster contruction and then somewhere down the line comes Westbrook and his tendencies.

the thunder's treatment of westbrook and sam presti's philosophy is why we have a coach like billy donovan in the first place. this isn't westbrook's "fault", but they have basically formed a westbrook personality cult. it is not helpful.

Wether Westbrook gambles or floats around on defense is not what's keeping us from where we should be (or at least want to be). He can't shoot for other players. He can't create offense for lineups that don't feature him.

it is keeping us from where we want to be. his ineptitude on defense is a big part of the reason a player of andre roberson's caliber is necessary to have beside him. the dropoff from andre roberson being out of the game is 100% unacceptable. wouldn't you say that westbrook's tendencies as a defensive player directly harm the team's ability to field productive defensive units without roberson? would anyone argue against this? what's the other factor? melo?

He needs to be more dilligent and lead by example. But him doing that is not gonna be enough to actually improve (enough).

says who? it won't turn this team into a contender but why are we brushing this off like it's not an important change to make? we're about to have two straight first round exits if we're lucky with westbrook as the #1 and all he can say is "you know me"?

When you get worse by 15 points per 100 possessions or so if you remove Andre Roberson from a lineup, there's a lot more wrong with you defensively than your point guard taking defensive plays off.

such as??? westbrook taking plays off and not being focused on that end is imo the primary reason we can't make up for losing roberson. melo being the other major one. westbrook contests the 2nd least number of shots per minute in the nba. we lost one of the nba's premier perimeter shot contesters. westbrook being unable to lift his game in this sense is a primary factor since there isn't another andre roberson to help him.

And when you drop below 100 ORtG without him on the floor over the span of three seasons, there's a lot more wrong with your team's offense than taking too many pull ups.

westbrook's a great offensive player. my main problem with him is how he behaves in close games, down the stretch. he believes he has super powers. he does not.

[slick_watts]

Criticism is fine. Illogical criticism isn't.

And I never tried to have the conversation

if you're going to call my criticism illogical, then show me why. we both know you can't.

[bondom34]

Criticism is fine. Illogical criticism isn't.

And I never tried to have the conversation

if you're going to call my criticism illogical, then show me why. we both know you can't.

Because calling for top down change isn't Westbrook. Its Presti and Donovan. You have no actual proof he controls anything and use it as a convenient reason to press blame when it never was done prior to this year or with other stars on the team. Earlier in this very thread you note the reliance on players with physical traits and how it is a massive issue. That's a top down problem.

[bondom34]

Alright not falling for it. I'd use the ignore feature but apparently you can't do that even to retired mods.

[slick_watts]

Because calling for top down change isn't Westbrook. Its Presti and Donovan. You have no actual proof he controls anything and use it as a convenient reason to press blame when it never was done prior to this year or with other stars on the team. Earlier in this very thread you note the reliance on players with physical traits and how it is a massive issue. That's a top down problem.

yes when i call for top-down change i mean sam presti / his regime and billy donovan. i don't necessarily want to see westbrook gone, but i wouldn't want to rebuild with him and the usual suspects either.

i'm not singling out westbrook as the only issue, either. i think his demeanor and his play-style is difficult to find teammates to thrive with. but i've never shied away from criticizing presti. or donovan. or carmelo anthony.

none of this invalidates any of my criticism. i've been open with the fact that how i feel about the team culturally is what i think and is my opinion-- and i've given reasons for why i think and feel those things. disagree? okay. whatevs. call me illogical? you and i know that isn't my style.