2021 NBA Draft Thread

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Re: 2021 NBA Draft Thread 

Post#601 » by thor19 » Thu Jun 24, 2021 8:35 pm

BlazersBroncos wrote:Does anyone else get Lamb vibes from Bouknight?

Sengun is getting some wild comparisons. I have seen numerous sites compare him to Tyler Hansbrough.

Sengun is averaging 1.6BPG against mature competition. Tyler had 66 blocks in 142 NCAA games and averaged 0.2 BPG in the NBA.

He isnt Nerlens Noel, but he isnt a dinosaur either. Think of Jusuf Nurkic, he is giant but really good on defense. Moves his feet really well, contests shots, blocks shots, etc. I think Sengun can be just a notch below Nurkic on defense and miles better on offense.

I too get similar vibes from bouknight, dont know if that both of them go to uconn, but that my fear that bouknight is Lamb 2.0
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Re: 2021 NBA Draft Thread 

Post#602 » by spearsy23 » Thu Jun 24, 2021 8:42 pm

thor19 wrote:
BlazersBroncos wrote:Does anyone else get Lamb vibes from Bouknight?

Sengun is getting some wild comparisons. I have seen numerous sites compare him to Tyler Hansbrough.

Sengun is averaging 1.6BPG against mature competition. Tyler had 66 blocks in 142 NCAA games and averaged 0.2 BPG in the NBA.

He isnt Nerlens Noel, but he isnt a dinosaur either. Think of Jusuf Nurkic, he is giant but really good on defense. Moves his feet really well, contests shots, blocks shots, etc. I think Sengun can be just a notch below Nurkic on defense and miles better on offense.

I too get similar vibes from bouknight, dont know if that both of them go to uconn, but that my fear that bouknight is Lamb 2.0

A solid 10 year nba vet? Take that guy in the teens any day.
“If you're getting stops and you're making threes and the other team's not scoring, that's when you're going to see a huge point difference there,” coach Billy Donovan said.
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Re: 2021 NBA Draft Thread 

Post#603 » by thor19 » Thu Jun 24, 2021 8:50 pm

spearsy23 wrote:
thor19 wrote:
BlazersBroncos wrote:Does anyone else get Lamb vibes from Bouknight?

Sengun is getting some wild comparisons. I have seen numerous sites compare him to Tyler Hansbrough.

Sengun is averaging 1.6BPG against mature competition. Tyler had 66 blocks in 142 NCAA games and averaged 0.2 BPG in the NBA.

He isnt Nerlens Noel, but he isnt a dinosaur either. Think of Jusuf Nurkic, he is giant but really good on defense. Moves his feet really well, contests shots, blocks shots, etc. I think Sengun can be just a notch below Nurkic on defense and miles better on offense.

I too get similar vibes from bouknight, dont know if that both of them go to uconn, but that my fear that bouknight is Lamb 2.0

A solid 10 year nba vet? Take that guy in the teens any day.
yes he is a solid 10 year vet, but dont know if I expected a better player when he was in okc, it was with the hornets that he average 15 pts per game
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Re: 2021 NBA Draft Thread 

Post#604 » by spearsy23 » Thu Jun 24, 2021 8:52 pm

thor19 wrote:
spearsy23 wrote:
thor19 wrote:I too get similar vibes from bouknight, dont know if that both of them go to uconn, but that my fear that bouknight is Lamb 2.0

A solid 10 year nba vet? Take that guy in the teens any day.
yes he is a solid 10 year vet, but dont know if I expected a better player when he was in okc, it was with the hornets that he average 15 pts per game

He didn't get a fair shot in okc
“If you're getting stops and you're making threes and the other team's not scoring, that's when you're going to see a huge point difference there,” coach Billy Donovan said.
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Re: 2021 NBA Draft Thread 

Post#605 » by thor19 » Thu Jun 24, 2021 9:01 pm

spearsy23 wrote:
thor19 wrote:
spearsy23 wrote:A solid 10 year nba vet? Take that guy in the teens any day.
yes he is a solid 10 year vet, but dont know if I expected a better player when he was in okc, it was with the hornets that he average 15 pts per game

He didn't get a fair shot in okc

Yeah maybe was that, when he was here , durant, ibaka, westbrook were the first option
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Re: 2021 NBA Draft Thread 

Post#606 » by Old Man Game » Fri Jun 25, 2021 2:06 am

spearsy23 wrote:I like Moody. Always appreciate guys who can draw fouls. Corey Maggette was severely underrated


Edit: I posted this off the cuff, but looking into it that might not be a bad comp....


Was just looking at a mock that had us taking Moody at 16 (sports illustrated). I bet he isn't available but if he was that's a no brainer pick to my mind.
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Re: 2021 NBA Draft Thread 

Post#607 » by Dadouv47 » Fri Jun 25, 2021 11:37 am

this draft is still pretty deep...regardless of the mock draft, you can find a nice prospect at #16....main issue is who to pick at 6 :(
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Re: 2021 NBA Draft Thread 

Post#608 » by ThunderBolt » Fri Jun 25, 2021 12:17 pm

JT Thor is interesting.
bisme37 wrote:If there were magnets in basketballs so strong they changed the path of the ball as it flew through the air, wouldn't the ball then stick magnetically to the rim when it got there?
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Re: 2021 NBA Draft Thread 

Post#609 » by Old Man Game » Fri Jun 25, 2021 2:40 pm

Does it bother anyone else that Kuminga and Green are being given the grades they are based on 13 games in the G League bubble? I know those are adults they're going against which is certainly impressive, but the sample size is pretty paltry. It's weak saying 'he can't shoot' when they guy barely got his feet wet.
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Re: 2021 NBA Draft Thread 

Post#610 » by ThunderBolt » Fri Jun 25, 2021 3:17 pm

Old Man Game wrote:Does it bother anyone else that Kuminga and Green are being given the grades they are based on 13 games in the G League bubble? I know those are adults they're going against which is certainly impressive, but the sample size is pretty paltry. It's weak saying 'he can't shoot' when they guy barely got his feet wet.


Yes. Sample sizes are too small for a lot of these guys. Guys can have their stocks swing dramatically for silly reasons. Yet there are always examples where those “silly” reasons turn out to be valid. It’s why I don’t get too worked up about draft prospects. Most people, including myself, really don’t watch ALL of these prospects enough to really know how to properly evaluate them, especially across different leagues.

I watched a lot of Evan Mobley and really like him. Can I really tell you with confidence how Mobley in the pac 12 compares to Jalen Green in the g league or to Sengun who played internationally? Nope and neither can a lot of experts. That’s why the draft board on real gm drives me crazy. However there was an interesting post there specifically about Sengun and the level of competition from a poster that seems pretty knowledgeable on European leagues. I’ll post a link.

But like I said before, I’ve got to see the guys on the court playing before I decide if they are either good or a project that we still won’t know for sure for a few years.

Spoiler:
Part 3)

Alperen Sengun

He played in Turkey's league, was the MVP, and he was deserving of it, so not like the Avdjia and Vezenkov examples. However, he played in a crappy team, despite that some claim otherwise. It's a crap level team for the standards of Europe. And the Turkish League is an OK league for European standards. It's certainly in the upper tier of domestic leagues in Europe, but nonetheless, overall it's also far below the level of EuroLeague, and it's also below the level of the secondary European leagues, like the EuroCup and FIBA Champions League.

Sengun's team, Besiktas, actually played in the 4th tier European league, the FIBA Europe Cup. That's 3 league levels below the EuroLeague. And that league is absolute trash. And his team didn't even do jack at that 4th European level. They were eliminated at the first group stage of the competition. Sengun had great numbers in that league, but it's the 4th level European league. It's a lower level than the Turkish League is. It's miles below the level of the EuroLeague. So it's much different than Doncic's situation was in Real Madrid.

Let's look at how Sengun played in the Turkish League playoffs against Efes. Efes won the EuroLeague championship. Sengun's team got swept by Efes 3 games to 0. The scores of the three games were Efes 96 - Besiktas 77, Efes 104 - Besiktas 86, and Efes 96 - Besiktas 66. So all three games were blowouts.

In that series, Sengun performed like this:

Game 1:

Efes 96 - Besiktas 77 (19 point loss)

6 points
3 rebounds
2 assists
0 steals
0 blocks

Game 2:

Efes 104 - Besiktas 86 (18 point loss)

15 points
2 rebounds
2 assists
0 steals
1 block

Game 3:

Efes 96 - Besiktas 66 (30 point loss)

23 points
7 rebounds
5 assists
0 steals
0 blocks

So in the Turkish League playoffs against Efes, Sengun's team was swept 3-0 and blown out in every game, losing by an average point margin of 22.3 points per game. In the series, Sengun's numbers were:

14.7 points per game
4.0 rebounds per game
3.0 assists per game
0.0 steals per game
0.3 blocks per game

So basically, a huge drop in production, and his team being blown out in three straight games. It's against an elite EuroLeague team, and it's a small sample size, but that gives an indication of his actual current level as a player.

To give a comparison, Mam Jaiteh is a French center that was also playing in a crap team in the Turkish League this season. Here were Mam Jaiteh's numbers in the Turkish League this year:

16.7 points per game
10.8 rebounds per game
2.1 assists per game
0.7 steals per game
0.9 blocks per game

Mam Jaiteh - as a comparison example (production wise):

Mam Jaiteh is 26, so that's why you are not hearing about him in the US sports media. His team didn't play in a European league this season. But Jaiteh has played in European leagues before.

https://www.euroleague.net/competition/players/showplayer?pcode=002581&seasoncode=E2013

4.6 points
3.7 rebounds
0.3 assists
0.4 steals
0.4 blocks

Jaiteh had great production in the Turkish League this season, but previously, he didn't do jack squat in the EuroLeague.

This was Jaiteh's production the last time he played in the EuroCup (2nd level European league):

https://www.euroleague.net/competition/players/showplayer?pcode=002581&seasoncode=U2018

4.3 points
4.8 rebounds
1.5 assists
0.3 steals
0.3 blocks

Jaiteh didn't do jack squat in a secondary level European league either. But his numbers jumped way up while he was playing in a crap Turkish League team this season. To be clear, I'm not comparing Jaieth and Sengun as players. Sengun is very skilled and talented and I'm not talking about it in that way. I'm just trying to make it clear as to what level of player Sengun was actually at in a true European sense this season, instead of the nonsense BS you will see in US sports media.

If you read some of those US sports media draft articles, they make it sound like Sengun was the best player in Europe, like he was playing in the best league in Europe, and like he was dominating this, and dominating that, and blah, blah, blah - just a complete total bunch of stupid hype gimmicks for NBA marketing.

You have to have actual objective analysis in its proper context, with a proper base to compare to, and with an actual understanding of what it really means. Not some of this nonsense you will see in some draft articles like, "Sengun was totally dominating against grown men in a premier European league". That's amateurish analysis at best, and it's possibly even in the realm of being clownish analysis.

The reality is that Sengun was extremely good by European standards, for his age. In an overall sense, of course not. If he was playing in the EuroLeague, he would have been a role player. Of course being a role player in the EuroLeague at age 18, and being a big man on top it, since they usually develop slower, is very good. It's very difficult to do that at that age, especially for a center.

But regardless, he would have been a role player in EuroLeague. So people should really just ignore all that "dominating and destroying the best competition in Europe" nonsense in US sports media. That kind of silly "analysis" is enough for me to know right away that they have very limited knowledge or understanding of anything about European basketball.[/quote]
bisme37 wrote:If there were magnets in basketballs so strong they changed the path of the ball as it flew through the air, wouldn't the ball then stick magnetically to the rim when it got there?
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Re: 2021 NBA Draft Thread 

Post#611 » by ThunderBolt » Fri Jun 25, 2021 4:16 pm

Hollinger was on Chad Ford’s podcast and he said the rumblings are true about Detroit not necessarily be sold on Cade.
bisme37 wrote:If there were magnets in basketballs so strong they changed the path of the ball as it flew through the air, wouldn't the ball then stick magnetically to the rim when it got there?
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Re: 2021 NBA Draft Thread 

Post#612 » by Dadouv47 » Fri Jun 25, 2021 4:24 pm

ThunderBolt wrote:Hollinger was on Chad Ford’s podcast and he said the rumblings are true about Detroit not necessarily be sold on Cade.


If that's true we should be even more pissed by not having a top 4 pick :(

But yeah you can make a case about Green I guess...
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Re: 2021 NBA Draft Thread 

Post#613 » by Dadouv47 » Fri Jun 25, 2021 4:41 pm

Crazy how Hollinger is high on Scottie Barnes. Guess he's not the only one...
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Re: 2021 NBA Draft Thread 

Post#614 » by ThunderBolt » Fri Jun 25, 2021 5:16 pm

Dadouv47 wrote:
ThunderBolt wrote:Hollinger was on Chad Ford’s podcast and he said the rumblings are true about Detroit not necessarily be sold on Cade.


If that's true we should be even more pissed by not having a top 4 pick :(

But yeah you can make a case about Green I guess...

Although Detroit and us might be too far apart for a direct deal, I don’t think it’s completely crazy that a multi team trade could happen if enough teams were comfortable with multiple prospects. This hardly seems like bad news.
bisme37 wrote:If there were magnets in basketballs so strong they changed the path of the ball as it flew through the air, wouldn't the ball then stick magnetically to the rim when it got there?
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Re: 2021 NBA Draft Thread 

Post#615 » by thedoppelganger » Fri Jun 25, 2021 5:24 pm

ThunderBolt wrote:Hollinger was on Chad Ford’s podcast and he said the rumblings are true about Detroit not necessarily be sold on Cade.

So at this point there's already rumblings about Detroit, Cleveland, and Toronto all either being open to trading down or not thinking the consensus top 4 players are actually the top 4? Smokescreen season out in full force and it hasn't even been a week.
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Re: 2021 NBA Draft Thread 

Post#616 » by Dadouv47 » Fri Jun 25, 2021 5:33 pm

thedoppelganger wrote:
ThunderBolt wrote:Hollinger was on Chad Ford’s podcast and he said the rumblings are true about Detroit not necessarily be sold on Cade.

So at this point there's already rumblings about Detroit, Cleveland, and Toronto all either being open to trading down or not thinking the consensus top 4 players are actually the top 4? Smokescreen season out in full force and it hasn't even been a week.


I still remain skeptical because even if all teams are open for business (rightfully so), they will likely make the safe bet and pick the BPA. Well probably we can have one trade in the top 5 but it's not like we are going to see a lot of trades. No reason this draft will be an exception.

OKC can obviously move up but I'm not sure it's worth it.
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Re: 2021 NBA Draft Thread 

Post#617 » by thor19 » Fri Jun 25, 2021 6:14 pm

If we dont get one of the top 4 prospect, if we get two of kuminga/ barnes/moody or bouknight and maybe a center we are in a good position
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Re: 2021 NBA Draft Thread 

Post#618 » by Old Man Game » Fri Jun 25, 2021 8:33 pm

It is sort of funny how Barnes is most frequently compared to Draymond Green and yet isn't a consensus top five pick. Sort of makes you think league decision makers aren't as impressed by Draymond as the media would lead you to believe.

Bottom line is Draymond isn't filling seats.

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Re: 2021 NBA Draft Thread 

Post#619 » by thor19 » Fri Jun 25, 2021 8:49 pm

thor19 wrote:If we dont get one of the top 4 prospect, if we get two of kuminga/ barnes/moody or bouknight and maybe a center we are in a good position

One things is for sure , dont trade SGA , we cant let a player like him trying to get another like him trading up in the draft
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Re: 2021 NBA Draft Thread 

Post#620 » by mr570 » Fri Jun 25, 2021 10:37 pm

ThunderBolt wrote:Hollinger was on Chad Ford’s podcast and he said the rumblings are true about Detroit not necessarily be sold on Cade.

Imagine if Troy Weaver goes full Thunder and takes Kuminga?

EDIT: Obviously that's a trade down with someone but LOL

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