11/22 - POSTGAME | Golden State Warriors (91) - (108) Oklahoma City Thunder

[Pillendreher]

What really bothers me is this: The things Donovan (and the team) did differently last night weren't new or that innovative. Including Robes as a screener, letting him roam more offensively, running more 2-out-of-the-big-3 lineups, finally giving Adams minutes without Russ - those are things we should be doing anyway. I **** hate that Donovan does not treat Regular Season games as must wins. We needed the win last night and he coached with way more urgency.

If he would have done those things from the start, we might be looking at 12-5 and not 8-9.

[getrichordie]

Spoiler:

No, if he does anything he does. If you play the same garbage rotations and do the same stupid stuff but Russ bails you out, you don't get credit. Not that tough to figure. I said quite a few times Russ was to blame too.

I'm having trouble comprehending that part. But what garbage rotations do you speak of? And why do you think it is garbage?

Also, did Donovan not make good substitutions last night? Did he not call well-timed timeouts and make sure the team wasn't getting off track? Am I missing something? I personally thought it was a really smart move not to play Patterson or Abrines heavy minutes but to instead go with the better defender and energy player in Huestis for 18 minutes.

It still just doesn't make sense to me that you say "Russ bailed him out." So when Russ shoots well and plays defense (what he should be doing), he's bailing our coach out? That just doesn't make a lick of sense. Hell, you might as well say that Curry bails Kerr out or Kyrie bails Stevens out. Because if any other starting point guard on a contender shoots as bad as Russ has shot prior to this game (which allows defenses to collapse and really hurts spacing), that team is losing more games, but they aren't blaming the coach. Instead, the question is "what's wrong with [insert point-guard or star player]."

Yeah... not buying that one, bro.

OK.


Game 1: Poor coaching, Russ misses shots.

Game 2: Poor coaching, same shots go in.

What did Donovan do here to gain credit?

Nothing. Still the same issues, just a different outcome. And no, when Russ plays well they win, when he plays poorly they lose.

Donovan hasn't done anything to this point to show he's a reason they've won.

So, let's break down the whole poor coaching accusation.

You said he's made bad rotations. What rotations do you speak of and why were they bad rotations and what rotations should he have made?

What are you expecting Donovan to do when Russ is shooting so bad that he can't keep defenses honest? Should we criticize him for not benching the face of the franchise or what?

Russ' 4th quarter performance hasn't been great.

What is your reasoning behind Donovan being at fault for the team's second-half breakdowns? The defense has been the bigger issue, moreso than the offense, in the 4th. What is Donovan doing or not doing to make them play worse defense?

[getrichordie]

What really bothers me is this: The things Donovan (and the team) did differently last night weren't new or that innovative. Including Robes as a screener, letting him roam more offensively, running more 2-out-of-the-big-3 lineups, finally giving Adams minutes without Russ - those are things we should be doing anyway. I **** hate that Donovan does not treat Regular Season games as must wins. We needed the win last night and he coached with way more urgency.

If he would have done those things from the start, we might be looking at 12-5 and not 8-9.

Are we sure Donovan coached with more urgency than usual? Or did players just play with more urgency and stick with the gameplan? I'm honestly not sure what "coaching with more urgency" means. I saw our starters play more minutes than usual. Notably Adams (37) and Roberson (32).

We can't expect to play Adams 37 minutes like that every night.

Roberson has been averaging 23 minutes on the season but played 32 last night and I'm fine with that, but it's hard to play Roberson that much if Russ' shot isn't falling. Can't have 2 offensively inept players out there and expect success, which would leave us to rely on guys like Abrines, Grant, or Felton to help make up for it - a tall task.

Or you could ask more of George and Melo, but having to compensate for the kind of poor shooting and poor defense nights from Russ is extremely difficult, especially given our bench.

EDIT: I should mention that not playing Patterson but 6 minutes is a huge boost because he is hurting the team badly when he is out there. I'm attributing it to injury, but I wonder if it might be something else causing his poor play. I know playing him at the 5 isn't helping, but what can you do except not play Patterson his minutes and give them to Grant or Dakari?

[Pillendreher]

I should mention that not playing Patterson but 6 minutes is a huge boost because he is hurting the team badly when he is out there.

Patterson is our 4th best defender and the main reason our bench has stayed competitive defensively. He is not 'hurting the team badly'.

What actually helps is less minutes and less shots for Grant.

[getrichordie]

I should mention that not playing Patterson but 6 minutes is a huge boost because he is hurting the team badly when he is out there.

Patterson is our 4th best defender and the main reason our bench has stayed competitive defensively. He is not 'hurting the team badly'.

What actually helps is less minutes and less shots for Grant.

The numbers state otherwise. He has the worst DRtg out of any of our rotation players. By the way, check my last post in the "Coach ideas" thread where I responded to some things you stated.

And does that mean Donovan is dumb for playing Grant and Huestis over him last night?

[spearsy23]

What really bothers me is this: The things Donovan (and the team) did differently last night weren't new or that innovative. Including Robes as a screener, letting him roam more offensively, running more 2-out-of-the-big-3 lineups, finally giving Adams minutes without Russ - those are things we should be doing anyway. I **** hate that Donovan does not treat Regular Season games as must wins. We needed the win last night and he coached with way more urgency.

If he would have done those things from the start, we might be looking at 12-5 and not 8-9.

Are we sure Donovan coached with more urgency than usual? Or did players just play with more urgency and stick with the gameplan? I'm honestly not sure what "coaching with more urgency" means. I saw our starters play more minutes than usual. Notably Adams (37) and Roberson (32).

We can't expect to play Adams 37 minutes like that every night.

Roberson has been averaging 23 minutes on the season but played 32 last night and I'm fine with that, but it's hard to play Roberson that much if Russ' shot isn't falling. Can't have 2 offensively inept players out there and expect success, which would leave us to rely on guys like Abrines, Grant, or Felton to help make up for it - a tall task.

Or you could ask more of George and Melo, but having to compensate for the kind of poor shooting and poor defense nights from Russ is extremely difficult, especially given our bench.

EDIT: I should mention that not playing Patterson but 6 minutes is a huge boost because he is hurting the team badly when he is out there. I'm attributing it to injury, but I wonder if it might be something else causing his poor play. I know playing him at the 5 isn't helping, but what can you do except not play Patterson his minutes and give them to Grant or Dakari?

1. You just called Russ offensively inept, which is maybe the stupidest thing you've ever said. Even when his shot isn't falling he's nowhere near inept.

2. The criticisms against Donovan have been laid out many times in many threads. Instead of coming in to have them reiterated go respond to them.

3. A bad coach coached a good game, kinda like when Dion would shoot 10/12 one night and then go back to 4/14 the next few weeks.

[Pillendreher]

I should mention that not playing Patterson but 6 minutes is a huge boost because he is hurting the team badly when he is out there.

Patterson is our 4th best defender and the main reason our bench has stayed competitive defensively. He is not 'hurting the team badly'.

What actually helps is less minutes and less shots for Grant.

The numbers state otherwise. He has the worst DRtg out of any of our rotation players.

Patterson is a much, much better defender than Grant. He's the main reason that bench works defensively. And for your DRtG: That's because Patterson almost never gets to play with the starters, so almost all of his minutes are with worse defensive players.

And does that mean Donovan is dumb for playing Grant and Huestis over him last night?

Yes, most certainly. Depending on Melo's output, Patterson is this team's 4th or 5th best player. It's instanity how Donovan's treating him. Yet another role player he's slowly but surely killing.

[bondom34]

Spoiler:

I'm having trouble comprehending that part. But what garbage rotations do you speak of? And why do you think it is garbage?

Also, did Donovan not make good substitutions last night? Did he not call well-timed timeouts and make sure the team wasn't getting off track? Am I missing something? I personally thought it was a really smart move not to play Patterson or Abrines heavy minutes but to instead go with the better defender and energy player in Huestis for 18 minutes.

It still just doesn't make sense to me that you say "Russ bailed him out." So when Russ shoots well and plays defense (what he should be doing), he's bailing our coach out? That just doesn't make a lick of sense. Hell, you might as well say that Curry bails Kerr out or Kyrie bails Stevens out. Because if any other starting point guard on a contender shoots as bad as Russ has shot prior to this game (which allows defenses to collapse and really hurts spacing), that team is losing more games, but they aren't blaming the coach. Instead, the question is "what's wrong with [insert point-guard or star player]."

Yeah... not buying that one, bro.

OK.


Game 1: Poor coaching, Russ misses shots.

Game 2: Poor coaching, same shots go in.

What did Donovan do here to gain credit?

Nothing. Still the same issues, just a different outcome. And no, when Russ plays well they win, when he plays poorly they lose.

Donovan hasn't done anything to this point to show he's a reason they've won.

So, let's break down the whole poor coaching accusation.

You said he's made bad rotations. What rotations do you speak of and why were they bad rotations and what rotations should he have made?

What are you expecting Donovan to do when Russ is shooting so bad that he can't keep defenses honest? Should we criticize him for not benching the face of the franchise or what?

Russ' 4th quarter performance hasn't been great.

What is your reasoning behind Donovan being at fault for the team's second-half breakdowns? The defense has been the bigger issue, moreso than the offense, in the 4th. What is Donovan doing or not doing to make them play worse defense?

Rotations?

The last literally 2 plus years. Too much Grant, Roberson benched for long stretches when they need defense, Kanter stuck out there when he shouldn't. The list goes on. Play Robes and Adams more, Grant shouldn't be getting those minutes most games.

When Russ is shooting poorly there's nothing he can do but he can mitigate losses elsewhere. Who'd think lineups with Grant/Huestis/Ferguson would be poor? Because he's done it.

As for the second half, halftime adjustments are generally made by a coach last I checked. When a team constantly comes out and gets killed in a 3rd quarter it seems indicative that someone isn't adjusting properly.

Oh and the entire switching scheme on defense is bizarre and awful. And it's been openly admitted the defense is actually supposed to sink on 3 pointers, so all those 3s Russ doesn't contest? Yeah that's part of the plan.

He's been a bad coach and a bad hire since day 1.

[getrichordie]

Spoiler:

OK.


Game 1: Poor coaching, Russ misses shots.

Game 2: Poor coaching, same shots go in.

What did Donovan do here to gain credit?

Nothing. Still the same issues, just a different outcome. And no, when Russ plays well they win, when he plays poorly they lose.

Donovan hasn't done anything to this point to show he's a reason they've won.

So, let's break down the whole poor coaching accusation.

You said he's made bad rotations. What rotations do you speak of and why were they bad rotations and what rotations should he have made?

What are you expecting Donovan to do when Russ is shooting so bad that he can't keep defenses honest? Should we criticize him for not benching the face of the franchise or what?

Russ' 4th quarter performance hasn't been great.

What is your reasoning behind Donovan being at fault for the team's second-half breakdowns? The defense has been the bigger issue, moreso than the offense, in the 4th. What is Donovan doing or not doing to make them play worse defense?

Rotations?

The last literally 2 plus years. Too much Grant, Roberson benched for long stretches when they need defense, Kanter stuck out there when he shouldn't. The list goes on. Play Robes and Adams more, Grant shouldn't be getting those minutes most games.

When Russ is shooting poorly there's nothing he can do but he can mitigate losses elsewhere. Who'd think lineups with Grant/Huestis/Ferguson would be poor? Because he's done it.

As for the second half, halftime adjustments are generally made by a coach last I checked. When a team constantly comes out and gets killed in a 3rd quarter it seems indicative that someone isn't adjusting properly.

Oh and the entire switching scheme on defense is bizarre and awful. And it's been openly admitted the defense is actually supposed to sink on 3 pointers, so all those 3s Russ doesn't contest? Yeah that's part of the plan.

He's been a bad coach and a bad hire since day 1.

Adams is already averaging close to 32 minutes a game. What more do you want from him?

Playing Roberson heavy minutes doesn't work when Russ isn't shooting well. I don't think that needs an explanation.

Getting killed in 3rd quarter does seem indicative of someone not adjusting properly. Doesn't mean that's what's happening. Could be that our starters are playing fewer minutes in the second half and the bench is playing more minutes.

Defense sinking on 3-pointers doesn't mean they aren't supposed to be contested. It means you don't want guys to blow by and get to the rim. Idk how many times Donovan has talked about closing out on 3-pt shots, but it's a lot. Sinking just means you aren't all the way up on your man if you don't have to be whether it's off-ball or on-ball defense.

And can you tell me how many minutes a line up of Huestis/Ferguson/Grant has played? They played 4 minutes together in the 4th when we were blowing out Chicago about a week ago, I know that much. Outside of that, I don't recall them playing any significant minutes together.

[bondom34]

So, let's break down the whole poor coaching accusation.

You said he's made bad rotations. What rotations do you speak of and why were they bad rotations and what rotations should he have made?

What are you expecting Donovan to do when Russ is shooting so bad that he can't keep defenses honest? Should we criticize him for not benching the face of the franchise or what?

Russ' 4th quarter performance hasn't been great.

What is your reasoning behind Donovan being at fault for the team's second-half breakdowns? The defense has been the bigger issue, moreso than the offense, in the 4th. What is Donovan doing or not doingA to make them play worse defense?

Rotations?

The last literally 2 plus years. Too much Grant, Roberson benched for long stretches when they need defense, Kanter stuck out there when he shouldn't. The list goes on. Play Robes and Adams more, Grant shouldn't be getting those minutes most games.

When Russ is shooting poorly there's nothing he can do but he can mitigate losses elsewhere. Who'd think lineups with Grant/Huestis/Ferguson would be poor? Because he's done it.

As for the second half, halftime adjustments are generally made by a coach last I checked. When a team constantly comes out and gets killed in a 3rd quarter it seems indicative that someone isn't adjusting properly.

Oh and the entire switching scheme on defense is bizarre and awful. And it's been openly admitted the defense is actually supposed to sink on 3 pointers, so all those 3s Russ doesn't contest? Yeah that's part of the plan.

He's been a bad coach and a bad hire since day 1.

Adams is already averaging close to 32 minutes a game. What more do you want from him?

Playing Roberson heavy minutes doesn't work when Russ isn't shooting well. I don't think that needs an explanation.

Getting killed in 3rd quarter does seem indicative of someone not adjusting properly. Doesn't mean that's what's happening. Could be that our starters are playing fewer minutes in the second half and the bench is playing more minutes.

Defense sinking on 3-pointers doesn't mean they aren't supposed to be contested. It means you don't want guys to blow by and get to the rim. Idk how many times Donovan has talked about closing out on 3-pt shots, but it's a lot. Sinking just means you aren't all the way up on your man if you don't have to be whether it's off-ball or on-ball defense.

And can you tell me how many minutes a line up of Huestis/Ferguson/Grant has played? They played 4 minutes together in the 4th when we were blowing out Chicago about a week ago, I know that much. Outside of that, I don't recall them playing any significant minutes together.

Adams can handle an extra 4 mpg. Especially against NOLA when AD is going off and Grant is guarding him.

Roberson has and continues to work just fine.

And you're excusing the 3rd quarter.....hm.

And the defense literally is set up to sink under screens. When you're 8 feet off a guy, shockingly, he doesn't have a hand in his face.

And that was a single example in one of many mind bogglingly dumb lineups this year and years past.

Here's another one?

He's done absolutely nothing in nearly 3 years to show he's actually a good coach, let alone not a bad one. They awfully misused Sabonis, which is why he suddenly looks great. He's been awful with lineups, overplays the worst players on the team consistently, and has gotten excuses from a lot of fans for no apparent reason. He hasn't done anything of note well and the one thing he was supposed to do, give an offensive system, hasn't happened. Their passing and movement somehow decreased with him which is amazing when they were near last to start.

Also we've noticed you dodged spearsy's question.

2. The criticisms against Donovan have been laid out many times in many threads. Instead of coming in to have them reiterated go respond to them.

[getrichordie]

Rotations?

The last literally 2 plus years. Too much Grant, Roberson benched for long stretches when they need defense, Kanter stuck out there when he shouldn't. The list goes on. Play Robes and Adams more, Grant shouldn't be getting those minutes most games.

When Russ is shooting poorly there's nothing he can do but he can mitigate losses elsewhere. Who'd think lineups with Grant/Huestis/Ferguson would be poor? Because he's done it.

As for the second half, halftime adjustments are generally made by a coach last I checked. When a team constantly comes out and gets killed in a 3rd quarter it seems indicative that someone isn't adjusting properly.

Oh and the entire switching scheme on defense is bizarre and awful. And it's been openly admitted the defense is actually supposed to sink on 3 pointers, so all those 3s Russ doesn't contest? Yeah that's part of the plan.

He's been a bad coach and a bad hire since day 1.

Adams is already averaging close to 32 minutes a game. What more do you want from him?

Playing Roberson heavy minutes doesn't work when Russ isn't shooting well. I don't think that needs an explanation.

Getting killed in 3rd quarter does seem indicative of someone not adjusting properly. Doesn't mean that's what's happening. Could be that our starters are playing fewer minutes in the second half and the bench is playing more minutes.

Defense sinking on 3-pointers doesn't mean they aren't supposed to be contested. It means you don't want guys to blow by and get to the rim. Idk how many times Donovan has talked about closing out on 3-pt shots, but it's a lot. Sinking just means you aren't all the way up on your man if you don't have to be whether it's off-ball or on-ball defense.

And can you tell me how many minutes a line up of Huestis/Ferguson/Grant has played? They played 4 minutes together in the 4th when we were blowing out Chicago about a week ago, I know that much. Outside of that, I don't recall them playing any significant minutes together.

Adams can handle an extra 4 mpg. Especially against NOLA when AD is going off and Grant is guarding him.

Roberson has and continues to work just fine.

And you're excusing the 3rd quarter.....hm.

And the defense literally is set up to sink under screens. When you're 8 feet off a guy, shockingly, he doesn't have a hand in his face.

And that was a single example in one of many mind bogglingly dumb lineups this year and years past.

Here's another one?

He's done absolutely nothing in nearly 3 years to show he's actually a good coach, let alone not a bad one. They awfully misused Sabonis, which is why he suddenly looks great. He's been awful with lineups, overplays the worst players on the team consistently, and has gotten excuses from a lot of fans for no apparent reason. He hasn't done anything of note well and the one thing he was supposed to do, give an offensive system, hasn't happened. Their passing and movement somehow decreased with him which is amazing when they were near last to start.

Also we've noticed you dodged spearsy's question.

2. The criticisms against Donovan have been laid out many times in many threads. Instead of coming in to have them reiterated go respond to them.

In response to spearsy's statement (not question), I'll have to go through the threads and see what's been said as I don't always get on here often, though I have been lately. It'd be helpful if you could point me in the right direction.

As far as that being an example of dumb lineups, can you give me a better one? Because that was a terrible example. So what if he stuck his end of the bench guys in when they were up 20 late in the 4th against Chicago? I mean that is seriously riding Donovan hard if we are going to criticize him for that.

As far as playing Adams more minutes versus NOP, you realize that his calf had been bothering him right? That's why he only played 25 minutes versus NOP. Donovan even said that his playing time would be dependant upon how he was feeling. So yeah, if Adams' says his calf is bothering him, I'm letting him rest, because it's a long season. As I said before, if Adams was to ever go down, this team would be screwed because we have no depth at the 5.

And I'm not excusing the 3rd or 4th quarter. It's obviously been an issue. But I guess the easy thing to do is to put it all on Donovan.

Even Adams said it:

“Mainly me, to be honest (should be blamed). Because the play itself you have to execute it properly and it has to be legit down to the t. I screwed up my feet on a couple of them in terms of spacing. … Everyone plays a part in the plight so you can say yeah the shot doesn’t go in which sucks. But to get them that shot I didn’t help them.”

Oh and there's this:

Read on Twitter

That's suggestive that the players are not sticking with the gameplan down the stretch. I personally think when they get punched in the mouth, Westbrook's response is to play hero ball and jacks up shots; it has a really bad effect on the rest of the team when your leader scraps the gameplan.

Yeah, Westbrook isn't great at working through screens either, but if he actually worked on that part of his game, he could close out better. Let's not pretend like Westbrook always tries on defense. Everyone knows Westbrook is notorious for giving sub-par effort on defense. I think I saw a clip the other day of Westbrook standing right beside a guy on the perimeter and Westbrook just walked towards him with his hands down and he hit the 3. I think it might have been NOP?

So... Sabonis. #1. He was a rookie with us. He's made progress. It's his 2nd year. Indiana is using him at the 5 primarily. How did you expect us to use Sabonis? Play him instead of Kanter at the 5? Yeah, let's bench our 17mil/yr center for Sabonis or we could ask Kanter to play PF? I mean, there's a lot wrong with playing Sabonis at the 5 last year. I can go into more detail if needed. And so what if they are trying to develop his outside shot? It's helped him obviously. But if you can convince me of a better way to use Sabonis last year than what we were doing, I'll concede that point. But there was no way he was playing 5 instead of Kanter. Kanter would have been pretty much useless at that point.

And you are excusing the fact that Donovan designed last year's offense around Russ last year. It was all about Russ. And Russ won MVP. But Donovan had nothing to do with that, I'm sure.

[bondom34]

[

In response to spearsy's statement (not question), I'll have to go through the threads and see what's been said as I don't always get on here often, though I have been lately. It'd be helpful if you could point me in the right direction.

As far as that being an example of dumb lineups, can you give me a better one? Because that was a terrible example. So what if he stuck his end of the bench guys in when they were up 20 late in the 4th against Chicago? I mean that is seriously riding Donovan hard if we are going to criticize him for that.

As far as playing Adams more minutes versus NOP, you realize that his calf had been bothering him right? That's why he only played 25 minutes versus NOP. Donovan even said that his playing time would be dependant upon how he was feeling. So yeah, if Adams' says his calf is bothering him, I'm letting him rest, because it's a long season. As I said before, if Adams was to ever go down, this team would be screwed because we have no depth at the 5.

And I'm not excusing the 3rd or 4th quarter. It's obviously been an issue. But I guess the easy thing to do is to put it all on Donovan.

Even Adams said it:

“Mainly me, to be honest (should be blamed). Because the play itself you have to execute it properly and it has to be legit down to the t. I screwed up my feet on a couple of them in terms of spacing. … Everyone plays a part in the plight so you can say yeah the shot doesn’t go in which sucks. But to get them that shot I didn’t help them.”

Oh and there's this:

Read on Twitter

That's suggestive that the players are not sticking with the gameplan down the stretch. I personally think when they get punched in the mouth, Westbrook's response is to play hero ball and jacks up shots; it has a really bad effect on the rest of the team when your leader scraps the gameplan.

Yeah, Westbrook isn't great at working through screens either, but if he actually worked on that part of his game, he could close out better. Let's not pretend like Westbrook always tries on defense. Everyone knows Westbrook is notorious for giving sub-par effort on defense. I think I saw a clip the other day of Westbrook standing right beside a guy on the perimeter and Westbrook just walked towards him with his hands down and he hit the 3. I think it might have been NOP?

So... Sabonis. #1. He was a rookie with us. He's made progress. It's his 2nd year. Indiana is using him at the 5 primarily. How did you expect us to use Sabonis? Play him instead of Kanter at the 5? Yeah, let's bench our 17mil/yr center for Sabonis or we could ask Kanter to play PF? I mean, there's a lot wrong with playing Sabonis at the 5 last year. I can go into more detail if needed. And so what if they are trying to develop his outside shot? It's helped him obviously. But if you can convince me of a better way to use Sabonis last year than what we were doing, I'll concede that point. But there was no way he was playing 5 instead of Kanter. Kanter would have been pretty much useless at that point.

And you are excusing the fact that Donovan designed last year's offense around Russ last year. It was all about Russ. And Russ won MVP. But Donovan had nothing to do with that, I'm sure.

OK...

Literally half of last season. We saw Grant/Semaj/Roberson trios. We see now Felton close games alongside Russ. We see things that clearly have no shot at working thrown out for 5 minute stretches weekly. You have to really not pay attention to miss them.

Adams was however playing remarkably well showing no signs he was hurt. He got 2 early fouls, was pulled, and didn't sub back in because, well....?

Sure, the 3rd and 4th isn't on Donovan. It's magic. He gets no blame at all. The opponent adjusts and OKC does too, but OKC's adjustments just don't show because clearly our players are all morons who don't pay attention.

And what do you want Adams to say "Yea, our coach is a bleepin moron."? He's doing what a good leader and every player does.

I personally think you've gone way too far for years to blame Westbrook when the coach is hired because his boss is his friend and has only won because he's had more talent, never actually proving he was capable of anything but basic interactions. Many here feel that way, and you don't, but have yet to substantiate that with anything other than deflection.

And that's the thing. He's SUPPOSED to sink those screens. Horne wrote on it. If he was supposed to be there, great, complain. But that's the game plan! So is switching Adams on to PGs when they're killing him! The genius gameplan!

And yes, you could have found minutes for Domas at the 5, especially given Kanter was useless defensively. Or play him not at the 3 point line all the time so he can play to his strengths.

And last year Donovan didn't design an offense. It was literally "Here's the ball, I hope Russ does something". You keep saying he designed things that have no design. There's nothing there, its 3 guys standing still and a high screen. You've even said it's similar to Houston's offense now which is mind blowing to me. One is run by one of the greatest offensive minds of all time and has historic numbers over the years with varying talent. One is a bunch of guys playing street ball. Seriously?

How many people have to demonstrate he's a bad coach before we reach the conclusion he's a bad coach. Because I don't think I know many, if any, who consistently watch this team and think they're well coached.

[slick_watts]

domas at the 4 or 5 seems immaterial, the biggest issue was trying to pigeonhole him into ibaka's role straight out of college.

i'm 50/50 on this stuff. i don't think donovan is a good coach, and a lot of that imo stems from our star player(s) not respecting him and his coaching all that much. but i also think westbrook is difficult to coach and reign in. donovan is especially weak in this respect due to his college pedigree and negligible nba experience / clout.

steven adams has spoken eloquently on a lot of things that makes me think the game prep is better than many would suspect. at least, on defense. maybe that's adrian griffin? who knows.

[Andre Roberstan]

And last year Donovan didn't design an offense. It was literally "Here's the ball, I hope Russ does something". You keep saying he designed things that have no design. There's nothing there, its 3 guys standing still and a high screen. You've even said it's similar to Houston's offense now which is mind blowing to me. One is run by one of the greatest offensive minds of all time and has historic numbers over the years with varying talent. One is a bunch of guys playing street ball. Seriously?

How many people have to demonstrate he's a bad coach before we reach the conclusion he's a bad coach. Because I don't think I know many, if any, who consistently watch this team and think they're well coached.

GROD is right, and I've seen a few coaching minds I respect note this. D'Antoni doesn't tend to run complex offense.

[bondom34]

And last year Donovan didn't design an offense. It was literally "Here's the ball, I hope Russ does something". You keep saying he designed things that have no design. There's nothing there, its 3 guys standing still and a high screen. You've even said it's similar to Houston's offense now which is mind blowing to me. One is run by one of the greatest offensive minds of all time and has historic numbers over the years with varying talent. One is a bunch of guys playing street ball. Seriously?

How many people have to demonstrate he's a bad coach before we reach the conclusion he's a bad coach. Because I don't think I know many, if any, who consistently watch this team and think they're well coached.

GROD is right, and I've seen a few coaching minds I respect note this. D'Antoni doesn't tend to run complex offense.

I don't dispute it's not complex.

I dispute it's the same thing. Heck the shooting profiles alone aren't remotely similar. OKC's mid range is miles more than Houston. They don't run the same amount of pnr (Houston's roll man numbers are well more), OKC's offense was more post heavy by a good margin, and they don't bear remarkable similarity in many other play types.

They're both not complex, but not terribly similar.

[Andre Roberstan]

And last year Donovan didn't design an offense. It was literally "Here's the ball, I hope Russ does something". You keep saying he designed things that have no design. There's nothing there, its 3 guys standing still and a high screen. You've even said it's similar to Houston's offense now which is mind blowing to me. One is run by one of the greatest offensive minds of all time and has historic numbers over the years with varying talent. One is a bunch of guys playing street ball. Seriously?

How many people have to demonstrate he's a bad coach before we reach the conclusion he's a bad coach. Because I don't think I know many, if any, who consistently watch this team and think they're well coached.

GROD is right, and I've seen a few coaching minds I respect note this. D'Antoni doesn't tend to run complex offense.

I don't dispute it's not complex.

I dispute it's the same thing.

His reliance on pick-and-roll variants (particularly Spain pick-and-roll) is similar. We run a ton of that.

[bondom34]

GROD is right, and I've seen a few coaching minds I respect note this. D'Antoni doesn't tend to run complex offense.

I don't dispute it's not complex.

I dispute it's the same thing.

His reliance on pick-and-roll variants (particularly Spain pick-and-roll) is similar. We run a ton of that.

Darn it you beat my edit. Houston runs a good bit more, as well as a lot more shooting and different shot types. They can have similarity without being terribly similar overall.

[Andre Roberstan]

I don't dispute it's not complex.

I dispute it's the same thing.

His reliance on pick-and-roll variants (particularly Spain pick-and-roll) is similar. We run a ton of that.

Darn it you beat my edit. Houston runs a good bit more, as well as a lot more shooting and different shot types. They can have similarity without being terribly similar overall.

I think you need to distinguish between what's being run as a part of the offense and what's being run as "break glass in case of emergency" or freelance. Yes, we have some designed plays that wind up in the midrange (PG pindowns often generate that). I'm fine with that. Basketball isn't played on spreadsheets, and having guys comfortable enough with the midrange to hit those looks in the playoffs when defenses clamp down on easy shots is a good thing IMO.

Watch the way the Spurs killed the Rockets offense on the vine last year because of the Moreyball emphasis on only taking high-value shots. The fact that the Rockets passed up on simpler looks in areas they didn't like to take more challenging looks in areas that were "higher-value" made it easier for the Spurs to defend. They conceded areas of the court they might not normally because they knew the Rockets wouldn't use them.

[bondom34]

His reliance on pick-and-roll variants (particularly Spain pick-and-roll) is similar. We run a ton of that.

Darn it you beat my edit. Houston runs a good bit more, as well as a lot more shooting and different shot types. They can have similarity without being terribly similar overall.

I think you need to distinguish between what's being run as a part of the offense and what's being run as "break glass in case of emergency" or freelance. Yes, we have some designed plays that wind up in the midrange (PG pindowns often generate that). I'm fine with that. Basketball isn't played on spreadsheets, and having guys comfortable enough with the midrange to hit those looks in the playoffs when defenses clamp down on easy shots is a good thing IMO.

Watch the way the Spurs killed the Rockets offense on the vine last year because of the Moreyball emphasis on only taking high-value shots. The fact that the Rockets passed up on simpler looks in areas they didn't like to take more challenging looks in areas that were "higher-value" made it easier for the Spurs to defend. They conceded areas of the court they might not normally because they knew the Rockets wouldn't use them.

The offense however is always in a "break glass" scenario if this is true. There's generally a single look with little to no off ball movement, and no matter who's been running the point, bench or starters, it's been the case. Heck even Felton was doing it yesterday when I was watching. I'm fine with midrange shots too, but if that's the case it's not MDA's offense, or terribly similar. They may run a set or two that are similar but the overall offensive scheme isn't bearing that out.

Other than that I agree with the rest, I actually don't like an offense that totally ignores mid range, but if that's true then it's not at all similar to Houston.

[slick_watts]

Watch on YouTube

this video is 80% of mike d'antoni offense. and he's been most successful with players arrayed to complement it i.e. dominant pnr handlers, a finisher, and a bunch of shooters. his roster now is basically perfect for what he wants to do.

i think that donovan has things he may want to do but we do not have the personnel to do it. our roster has been passing and court awareness deficient since he got here, really. it reminds me of his pnr defense strategy when he first came in that he had to abandon because ibaka and kanter were not getting it.

donovan doesn't seem very flexible with his approach (d'antoni isn't either, really). i agree that finding mid-range shots and using the entire court can be beneficial but imo that's really only for offenses experiencing diminishing returns otherwise. our shooting of mid-range shots seems to be at the expense of other, higher value looks we could get- not shots that we are taking to keep defenses honest.