12/1 - POSTGAME | Minnesota Timberwolves (107) - (111) Oklahoma City Thunder

[Old Man Game]

You could say the same about CP3s next deal. And John Wall. And Harden. You pay on the back end what you get in the front.

The issue is those guys both having higher bbiq and therefore it seems plausible that while not ideal to be paying at that age, the drop-off for them may not be as steep as Westbrook.

Sent from my Pixel using RealGM mobile app

John Wall hasnt ever been as good, and Paul will be nearing 40. I see the argument for Harden but even he's in decline. It's the questino with the supermax contracts. If you want good players you pay them. If you don't you don't but don't complain when your team never attracts anyone.

Like I said, I'm not mad at them for signing him to it. It was necessary to keep him. I'm just saying at some point it may not feel so good. It's like that saying about owning a boat. The 2 best days are when you buy it and when you sell it.

[Old Man Game]

You could say the same about CP3s next deal. And John Wall. And Harden. You pay on the back end what you get in the front.

The issue is those guys both having higher bbiq and therefore it seems plausible that while not ideal to be paying at that age, the drop-off for them may not be as steep as Westbrook.

Sent from my Pixel using RealGM mobile app

John Wall hasnt ever been as good, and Paul will be nearing 40. I see the argument for Harden but even he's in decline. It's the questino with the supermax contracts. If you want good players you pay them. If you don't you don't but don't complain when your team never attracts anyone.

Like I said, I'm not mad at them for signing him to it. It was necessary to keep him. I'm just saying at some point it may not feel so good. It's like that saying about owning a boat. The 2 best days are when you buy it and when you sell it.

[bondom34]

The issue is those guys both having higher bbiq and therefore it seems plausible that while not ideal to be paying at that age, the drop-off for them may not be as steep as Westbrook.

Sent from my Pixel using RealGM mobile app

John Wall hasnt ever been as good, and Paul will be nearing 40. I see the argument for Harden but even he's in decline. It's the questino with the supermax contracts. If you want good players you pay them. If you don't you don't but don't complain when your team never attracts anyone.

Like I said, I'm not mad at them for signing him to it. It was necessary to keep him. I'm just saying at some point it may not feel so good. It's like that saying about owning a boat. The 2 best days are when you buy it and when you sell it.

Actually enjoying the boat is pretty nice.

[ThunderBolt]

I like boats that play defense and don’t chase rebounds.

[bondom34]

I like boats that play defense and don’t chase rebounds.

I like boats that win games and impact them positively.

[ThunderBolt]

I like boats that play defense and don’t chase rebounds.

I like boats that win games and impact them positively.

Russ had a decent stat line last night although far from ideal. He shot 40% percent and had 7 turnovers to go with his ten assists. His stat line was much better than George. The problem is that Russ Russ isn’t a terribly efficient player as is seen by the fact that most consider the game be played last night to be pretty solid. The difference I see is that George still contributed on the defensive end when his shots weren’t going his way. This is why I’m not as ciritical of George as I am of Westbrook.

Despite Russ playing a decent game he made MAJOR mistakes and bad plays at the end of the game. He complained about a no call when he missed a layup and then made a lazy run back which led to a Murray layup. Russ then had a crucial turnover late in the game. I won’t rip him too hard for that because he was trying to avoid the trap. I can overlook a mistake more than lack of effort. The real frustration is that after the turnover he let Paul have an uncontested three. He even backed away from him when paul was pulling up for three. How in the world can he let that happen?!

No one is denying that Russ is an all time talent and that he helps the team more than he hurts them. However when you watch how he plays it’s pretty obvious that Russ doesn’t make the best use of his own abilities. Seeing stuff like that adds some validity to what the critics say about Russ. If this team starts playing well and we are in a nailbiter in the playoffs, is Russ going to argue with an official while the opposing team makes a crucial bucket? Is he going to let Eric Gordon have wide open threes in hoping that he can get s rebound to get out in transition?

[bondom34]

I like boats that play defense and don’t chase rebounds.

I like boats that win games and impact them positively.

Russ had a decent stat line last night although far from ideal. He shot 40% percent and had 7 turnovers to go with his ten assists. His stat line was much better than George. The problem is that Russ Russ isn’t a terribly efficient player as is seen by the fact that most consider the game be played last night to be pretty solid. The difference I see is that George still contributed on the defensive end when his shots weren’t going his way. This is why I’m not as ciritical of George as I am of Westbrook.

Despite Russ playing a decent game he made MAJOR mistakes and bad plays at the end of the game. He complained about a no call when he missed a layup and then made a lazy run back which led to a Murray layup. Russ then had a crucial turnover late in the game. I won’t rip him too hard for that because he was trying to avoid the trap. I can overlook a mistake more than lack of effort. The real frustration is that after the turnover he let Paul have an uncontested three. He even backed away from him when paul was pulling up for three. How in the world can he let that happen?!

No one is denying that Russ is an all time talent and that he helps the team more than he hurts them. However when you watch how he plays it’s pretty obvious that Russ doesn’t make the best use of his own abilities. Seeing stuff like that adds some validity to what the critics say about Russ. If this team starts playing well and we are in a nailbiter in the playoffs, is Russ going to argue with an official while the opposing team makes a crucial bucket? Is he going to let Eric Gordon have wide open threes in hoping that he can get s rebound to get out in transition?

You're right. He's never shown ability in the playoffs to impact games either. I totally imagined all those conference finals runs.

Also of note. George with Russ on the bench is literally a non functional offense.

[ThunderBolt]

I like boats that win games and impact them positively.

Russ had a decent stat line last night although far from ideal. He shot 40% percent and had 7 turnovers to go with his ten assists. His stat line was much better than George. The problem is that Russ Russ isn’t a terribly efficient player as is seen by the fact that most consider the game be played last night to be pretty solid. The difference I see is that George still contributed on the defensive end when his shots weren’t going his way. This is why I’m not as ciritical of George as I am of Westbrook.

Despite Russ playing a decent game he made MAJOR mistakes and bad plays at the end of the game. He complained about a no call when he missed a layup and then made a lazy run back which led to a Murray layup. Russ then had a crucial turnover late in the game. I won’t rip him too hard for that because he was trying to avoid the trap. I can overlook a mistake more than lack of effort. The real frustration is that after the turnover he let Paul have an uncontested three. He even backed away from him when paul was pulling up for three. How in the world can he let that happen?!

No one is denying that Russ is an all time talent and that he helps the team more than he hurts them. However when you watch how he plays it’s pretty obvious that Russ doesn’t make the best use of his own abilities. Seeing stuff like that adds some validity to what the critics say about Russ. If this team starts playing well and we are in a nailbiter in the playoffs, is Russ going to argue with an official while the opposing team makes a crucial bucket? Is he going to let Eric Gordon have wide open threes in hoping that he can get s rebound to get out in transition?

You're right. He's never shown ability in the playoffs to impact games either. I totally imagined all those conference finals runs.

That’s not what I said and quite honestly, that’s a lazy response by you. I made valid points in flaws in his game. If you choose to ignore them, that’s your prerogative but it doesn’t mean the flaws go away.

[bondom34]

Russ had a decent stat line last night although far from ideal. He shot 40% percent and had 7 turnovers to go with his ten assists. His stat line was much better than George. The problem is that Russ Russ isn’t a terribly efficient player as is seen by the fact that most consider the game be played last night to be pretty solid. The difference I see is that George still contributed on the defensive end when his shots weren’t going his way. This is why I’m not as ciritical of George as I am of Westbrook.

Despite Russ playing a decent game he made MAJOR mistakes and bad plays at the end of the game. He complained about a no call when he missed a layup and then made a lazy run back which led to a Murray layup. Russ then had a crucial turnover late in the game. I won’t rip him too hard for that because he was trying to avoid the trap. I can overlook a mistake more than lack of effort. The real frustration is that after the turnover he let Paul have an uncontested three. He even backed away from him when paul was pulling up for three. How in the world can he let that happen?!

No one is denying that Russ is an all time talent and that he helps the team more than he hurts them. However when you watch how he plays it’s pretty obvious that Russ doesn’t make the best use of his own abilities. Seeing stuff like that adds some validity to what the critics say about Russ. If this team starts playing well and we are in a nailbiter in the playoffs, is Russ going to argue with an official while the opposing team makes a crucial bucket? Is he going to let Eric Gordon have wide open threes in hoping that he can get s rebound to get out in transition?

You're right. He's never shown ability in the playoffs to impact games either. I totally imagined all those conference finals runs.

That’s not what I said and quite honestly, that’s a lazy response by you. I made valid points in flaws in his game. If you choose to ignore them, that’s your prerogative but it doesn’t mean the flaws go away.

It does ignore George being unable to function offensively. See my edit.

Yes, Russ has flaws. Every player does. He also has strengths that massively outweigh those flaws to an extent only a small handful of players don't. He's a far superior offensive player who doesn't tank a defense when he's on court. If you choose to focus on flaws to the point where you'd legitimately take far worse players over him that's your prerogative.

To go back to the boat its being offered a kayak or a yacht and saying you'd rather the kayak because the yacht is the wrong color.

[ThunderBolt]

You're right. He's never shown ability in the playoffs to impact games either. I totally imagined all those conference finals runs.

That’s not what I said and quite honestly, that’s a lazy response by you. I made valid points in flaws in his game. If you choose to ignore them, that’s your prerogative but it doesn’t mean the flaws go away.

It does ignore George being unable to function offensively. See my edit.

Yes, Russ has flaws. Every player does. He also has strengths that massively outweigh those flaws to an extent only a small handful of players don't. He's a far superior offensive player who doesn't tank a defense when he's on court. If you choose to focus on flaws to the point where you'd legitimately take far worse players over him that's your prerogative.

To go back to the boat its being offered a kayak or a yacht and saying you'd rather the kayak because the yacht is the wrong color.

It’s more like a racing boat with an engine that sporadically cuts out. It’s extremely fast but also concerning that the boat quits running at the finish line. There may be times that a slower, more reliable boat has its benefits.

[bondom34]

That’s not what I said and quite honestly, that’s a lazy response by you. I made valid points in flaws in his game. If you choose to ignore them, that’s your prerogative but it doesn’t mean the flaws go away.

It does ignore George being unable to function offensively. See my edit.

Yes, Russ has flaws. Every player does. He also has strengths that massively outweigh those flaws to an extent only a small handful of players don't. He's a far superior offensive player who doesn't tank a defense when he's on court. If you choose to focus on flaws to the point where you'd legitimately take far worse players over him that's your prerogative.

To go back to the boat its being offered a kayak or a yacht and saying you'd rather the kayak because the yacht is the wrong color.

It’s more like a racing boat with an engine that sporadically cuts out. It’s extremely fast but also concerning that the boat quits running at the finish line. There may be times that a slower, more reliable boat has its benefits.

Ah yes the long history of Russ quitting as opposed to George.

Ftr PG with Russ on the bench is about a -20 net rating. Russ with PG on the bench is about a plus 7.5.

I don't know when Russ magically became worthless to people but he's statistically been more impactful than George.

[ThunderBolt]

It does ignore George being unable to function offensively. See my edit.

Yes, Russ has flaws. Every player does. He also has strengths that massively outweigh those flaws to an extent only a small handful of players don't. He's a far superior offensive player who doesn't tank a defense when he's on court. If you choose to focus on flaws to the point where you'd legitimately take far worse players over him that's your prerogative.

To go back to the boat its being offered a kayak or a yacht and saying you'd rather the kayak because the yacht is the wrong color.

It’s more like a racing boat with an engine that sporadically cuts out. It’s extremely fast but also concerning that the boat quits running at the finish line. There may be times that a slower, more reliable boat has its benefits.

Ah yes the long history of Russ quitting as opposed to George.

Ftr PG with Russ on the bench is about a -20 net rating. Russ with PG on the bench is about a plus 7.5.

I don't know when Russ magically became worthless to people but he's statistically been more impactful than George.

I wasn’t referring to George. I was referring to our previous discussion about lower usage point guards.

Again, I never said Russ was worthless . That’s hyperbole.

[bondom34]

It’s more like a racing boat with an engine that sporadically cuts out. It’s extremely fast but also concerning that the boat quits running at the finish line. There may be times that a slower, more reliable boat has its benefits.

Ah yes the long history of Russ quitting as opposed to George.

Ftr PG with Russ on the bench is about a -20 net rating. Russ with PG on the bench is about a plus 7.5.

I don't know when Russ magically became worthless to people but he's statistically been more impactful than George.

I wasn’t referring to George. I was referring to our previous discussing about lower usage point guards.

In that case the argument is even weaker. You're literally taking even worse players than George. There are years of data backing this.

[bondom34]

It’s more like a racing boat with an engine that sporadically cuts out. It’s extremely fast but also concerning that the boat quits running at the finish line. There may be times that a slower, more reliable boat has its benefits.

Ah yes the long history of Russ quitting as opposed to George.

Ftr PG with Russ on the bench is about a -20 net rating. Russ with PG on the bench is about a plus 7.5.

I don't know when Russ magically became worthless to people but he's statistically been more impactful than George.

I wasn’t referring to George. I was referring to our previous discussion about lower usage point guards.

Again, I never said Russ was worthless . That’s hyperbole.

Oh and if Lillard is being argued he takes 0.1 shots per game fewer than Russ.

[ThunderBolt]

Ah yes the long history of Russ quitting as opposed to George.

Ftr PG with Russ on the bench is about a -20 net rating. Russ with PG on the bench is about a plus 7.5.

I don't know when Russ magically became worthless to people but he's statistically been more impactful than George.

I wasn’t referring to George. I was referring to our previous discussing about lower usage point guards.

In that case the argument is even weaker. You're literally taking even worse players than George. There are years of data backing this.

There is no data in the world for this hypothetical situation. We are talking about things like player chemistry which isn’t measured by analytics. How can you quantify what a point guard who shoots well and shares the ball would have done for Oladipo? Or how it might have helped enough with spacing so that Domas wouldn’t have to shoot threes but could play under the basket? It’s like you hypothesizing that Steven would be better this year with more spacing.

Analytics are not the be all, end all even for GMs. They have limitations. They can tell you what is happening but they don’t guarantee if play x on paper is a good fit with player y.

[bondom34]

I wasn’t referring to George. I was referring to our previous discussing about lower usage point guards.

In that case the argument is even weaker. You're literally taking even worse players than George. There are years of data backing this.

There is no data in the world for this hypothetical situation. We are talking about things like player chemistry which isn’t measured by analytics. How can you quantify what a point guard who shoots well and shares the ball would have done for Oladipo? Or how it might have helped enough with spacing so that Domas wouldn’t have to shoot threes but could play under the basket? It’s like you hypothesizing that Steven would be better this year with more spacing.

Analytics are not the be all, end all even for GMs. They have limitations. They can tell you what is happening but they don’t guarantee if play x on paper is a good fit with player y.

1. Because we literally saw Oladipo without Russ and he wasn't capable of.this and 2. Comas wasn't used that way because of Russ. He was used that way because of Steven. And Roberson. Because not having another shooter meant over half your lineup can't shoot.

Also Dame shoots as much and is a worse defender. Its not analytics its logic.

[bondom34]

Oh and to top it all off its the idea of building around your best player and not your second best one. By that reasoning trade PG too and build around Steven.

[ThunderBolt]

In that case the argument is even weaker. You're literally taking even worse players than George. There are years of data backing this.

There is no data in the world for this hypothetical situation. We are talking about things like player chemistry which isn’t measured by analytics. How can you quantify what a point guard who shoots well and shares the ball would have done for Oladipo? Or how it might have helped enough with spacing so that Domas wouldn’t have to shoot threes but could play under the basket? It’s like you hypothesizing that Steven would be better this year with more spacing.

Analytics are not the be all, end all even for GMs. They have limitations. They can tell you what is happening but they don’t guarantee if play x on paper is a good fit with player y.

1. Because we literally saw Oladipo without Russ and he wasn't capable of.this and 2. Comas wasn't used that way because of Russ. He was used that way because of Steven. And Roberson. Because not having another shooter meant over half your lineup can't shoot.

Also Dame shoots as much and is a worse defender. Its not analytics its logic.

I said before the Lillard isn’t an ideal switch because he’s a bad defender. Dame shoots more THIS year, not historically. Yes Dre and Adams are a big part of last years spacing but Russ’ shooting from three isn’t great.

What I said is my ideal replacement is prime mike Conley. Where I may not have made myself clear is that I don’t think Conley by himself is equal to russ. What i mean is that if Russ were traded for someone like Kawhi and the team had more of a jack-of-all-trades point guard, I think the team becomes better.

[bondom34]

There is no data in the world for this hypothetical situation. We are talking about things like player chemistry which isn’t measured by analytics. How can you quantify what a point guard who shoots well and shares the ball would have done for Oladipo? Or how it might have helped enough with spacing so that Domas wouldn’t have to shoot threes but could play under the basket? It’s like you hypothesizing that Steven would be better this year with more spacing.

Analytics are not the be all, end all even for GMs. They have limitations. They can tell you what is happening but they don’t guarantee if play x on paper is a good fit with player y.

1. Because we literally saw Oladipo without Russ and he wasn't capable of.this and 2. Comas wasn't used that way because of Russ. He was used that way because of Steven. And Roberson. Because not having another shooter meant over half your lineup can't shoot.

Also Dame shoots as much and is a worse defender. Its not analytics its logic.

I said before the Lillard isn’t an ideal switch because he’s a bad defender. Dame shoots more THIS year, not historically. Yes Dre and Adams are a big part of last years spacing but Russ’ shooting from three isn’t great.

What I said is my ideal replacement is prime mike Conley. Where I may not have made myself clear is that I don’t think Conley by himself is equal to russ. What i mean is that if Russ were traded for someone like Kawhi and the team had more of a jack-of-all-trades point guard, I think the team becomes better.

Wait so now you're trading Russ for literally a better player then replacing him with a clearly inferior point guard? Sure I agree too. Trade him for Lebron and replace him with Bledsoe and you're likely better. Conley alone hasn't ever come close to Russ and hasn't been able to lift an offense or defense.

If you're thinking that its vastly overrating the effect a guard has on team defense in general.

[Andre Roberstan]

There is no data in the world for this hypothetical situation. We are talking about things like player chemistry which isn’t measured by analytics. How can you quantify what a point guard who shoots well and shares the ball would have done for Oladipo? Or how it might have helped enough with spacing so that Domas wouldn’t have to shoot threes but could play under the basket? It’s like you hypothesizing that Steven would be better this year with more spacing.

Analytics are not the be all, end all even for GMs. They have limitations. They can tell you what is happening but they don’t guarantee if play x on paper is a good fit with player y.

1. Because we literally saw Oladipo without Russ and he wasn't capable of.this and 2. Comas wasn't used that way because of Russ. He was used that way because of Steven. And Roberson. Because not having another shooter meant over half your lineup can't shoot.

Also Dame shoots as much and is a worse defender. Its not analytics its logic.

I said before the Lillard isn’t an ideal switch because he’s a bad defender. Dame shoots more THIS year, not historically. Yes Dre and Adams are a big part of last years spacing but Russ’ shooting from three isn’t great.

What I said is my ideal replacement is prime mike Conley. Where I may not have made myself clear is that I don’t think Conley by himself is equal to russ. What i mean is that if Russ were traded for someone like Kawhi and the team had more of a jack-of-all-trades point guard, I think the team becomes better.

I think this is the case for almost every team that has a great point guard. Not because of who the guard is, but because in the current NBA a great wing can do more to lift your team than just about any other position.