Thunder Offseason Thread

[Andre Roberstan]

especially considering we've seen some rather nice ATOs at times from him.

Is that enough to pay a guy 6 million a year? Because we're 9th in ORtG after timeouts this season? Which wasn't even every 20th offensive possession?

Come on, man. You can't pan a guy for being a strategic idiot when he's well above average for the one part of the game where designed plays are basically guaranteed to be run. What are we even doing here?

[Dadouv47]

For what it's worth, I'm 100% with Justin here. Blaming Donovan is a cop-out, especially considering we've seen some rather nice ATOs at times from him.

I also agree that we should blame many people/players before Donovan but it doesn't mean that we should keep him.

Getting rid of Donovan won't solve our problems but if we keep our main players for next year, we need a new coach with another behavior.

[Pillendreher]

especially considering we've seen some rather nice ATOs at times from him.

Is that enough to pay a guy 6 million a year? Because we're 9th in ORtG after timeouts this season? Which wasn't even every 20th offensive possession?

Come on, man. You can't pan a guy for being a strategic idiot when he's well above average for the one part of the game where designed plays are basically guaranteed to be run.

Of course I can. 5 % of our offensive possessions have been after timeouts. He can't call designed plays for the other 95 % of our possessions? Where is this assumed strategical acumen of his when we're losing to European Rajon Rondo and he tells people that "we're an over team"? Where is it when we just take turns isolating guys?

What are we even doing here?

I could ask you the same thing.

[Andre Roberstan]

Is that enough to pay a guy 6 million a year? Because we're 9th in ORtG after timeouts this season? Which wasn't even every 20th offensive possession?

Come on, man. You can't pan a guy for being a strategic idiot when he's well above average for the one part of the game where designed plays are basically guaranteed to be run.

Of course I can. 5 % of our offensive possessions have been after timeouts. He can't call designed plays for the other 95 % of our possessions? Where is this assumed strategical acumen of his when we're losing to European Rajon Rondo and he tells people that "we're an over team"? Where is it when we just take turns isolating guys?

What are we even doing here?

I could ask you the same thing.

I think you're scapegoating him for things that are roster (or RUSSter) issues.

[Pillendreher]

Come on, man. You can't pan a guy for being a strategic idiot when he's well above average for the one part of the game where designed plays are basically guaranteed to be run.

Of course I can. 5 % of our offensive possessions have been after timeouts. He can't call designed plays for the other 95 % of our possessions? Where is this assumed strategical acumen of his when we're losing to European Rajon Rondo and he tells people that "we're an over team"? Where is it when we just take turns isolating guys?

What are we even doing here?

I could ask you the same thing.

I think you're scapegoating him for things that are roster (or RUSSter) issues.

Roster issues, Westbrook issues and coaching issues are not mutually exclusive.

[slick_watts]

Of course I can. 5 % of our offensive possessions have been after timeouts. He can't call designed plays for the other 95 % of our possessions? Where is this assumed strategical acumen of his when we're losing to European Rajon Rondo and he tells people that "we're an over team"? Where is it when we just take turns isolating guys?

I could ask you the same thing.

I think you're scapegoating him for things that are roster (or RUSSter) issues.

Roster issues, Westbrook issues and coaching issues are not mutually exclusive.

some are easier to overcome than others.

[Pillendreher]

I think you're scapegoating him for things that are roster (or RUSSter) issues.

Roster issues, Westbrook issues and coaching issues are not mutually exclusive.

some are easier to overcome than others.

I agree. That's why we should start with the easiest one. I'm sure there's some cozy retirement community in Florida for Donovan.

[slick_watts]

Roster issues, Westbrook issues and coaching issues are not mutually exclusive.

some are easier to overcome than others.

I agree. That's why we should start with the easiest one. I'm sure there's some cozy retirement community in Florida for Donovan.

this might be something to do at some point but imo most of the energy and resources of the team should be put into constructing a roster as amenable as possible with current westbrook and / or somehow coaxing westbrook into improving some of the things he has regressed on. he doesn't need to be an elite jump shooter but he can't be one of the worst in the league, either.

when those are satisfied i think that's when you look into more marginal upgrades, like a realistic coaching change would be. this is all assuming sam presti is still around. if he's not, then i don't know what happens or should happen. i think we'd have a very revealing offseason though.

[Woerzboerg]

Damn, I can't believe I stayed up until 12:30 on a Tuesday with work the next day to watch that last night. F this team.

I stood up at 4:40 a.m. to watch this game, so you're not alone.

[Pillendreher]

Damn, I can't believe I stayed up until 12:30 on a Tuesday with work the next day to watch that last night. F this team.

I stood up at 4:40 a.m. to watch this game, so you're not alone.

Na wenn das keine wortwörtliche Übersetzung aus dem Deutschen ist

[Woerzboerg]

Ich hab damals englisch zugunsten von Latein abgewählt, was erwartest du?

[Pillendreher]

Ich hab damals englisch zugunsten von Latein abgewählt, was erwartest du?

Dann wundert mich wahrlich nichts mehr

[RunOKC]

At least I can watch Endgame in peace on thursday

[jambalaya]

Presti has had 12 seasons. He is good. Maybe could have had better results with more luck with injuries but he had his share of luck (getting Durant to drop to him). He failed to build a sufficient / true championship culture or get a championship. He wanted a team but let superstars become spoiled babies. His ideological love for the exceptional man overcame the need for teamwork, quality depth, more shared responsibility. He isn't going to win a title with his roster. Continue being good or ok for awhile if you want. No title is coming. If you want a title you need to blow up the roster entirely. Unless Presti will do that, you probably should move on from him. They won't. Donovan should be gone. A coach with more quality and power is needed. Presti choose lightweights that wouldn't challenge him on anything. He dd it his way and came up short.


I highly doubt any team can win a title with a PG who is not a good outside threat. Adams is not the right kind of center for today and was not developed or pushed adequately. He became a prized possession but not worth the investment. PG got hurt. But he also bet wrong on Russ and is only a #2. You are not going to build a championship de-emphasizing / ignoring the primary importance of shooters.

[oreojenkins]

Presti has had 12 seasons. He is good. Maybe could have had better results with more luck with injuries but he had his share of luck (getting Durant to drop to him). He failed to build a sufficient / true championship culture or get a championship. He wanted a team but let superstars become spoiled babies. His ideological love for the exceptional man overcame the need for teamwork, quality depth, more shared responsibility. He isn't going to win a title with his roster. Continue being good or ok for awhile if you want. No title is coming. If you want a title you need to blow up the roster entirely. Unless Presti will do that, you probably should move on from him. They won't. Donovan should be gone. A coach with more quality and power is needed. Presti choose lightweights that wouldn't challenge him on anything. He dd it his way and came up short.


I highly doubt any team can win a title with a PG who is not a good outside threat. Adams is not the right kind of center for today and was not developed or pushed adequately. He became a prized possession but not worth the investment. PG got hurt. But he also bet wrong on Russ and is only a #2. You are not going to build a championship de-emphasizing / ignoring the primary importance of shooters.

I agree with most of this.

It might be time to bring in someone new to call the shots. I'm kind of torn on Presti. On one hand, he has shown he's excellent at the top of the draft and at least above average outside of the lottery. He had it all set up for a super team before KD said "nah." It took major stones to make the gamble on PG, and it paid off. All good things. But you could just as easily say he grossly miscalculated with respect to the Harden decision. He built a team that a top-2 player that should fit in any system couldn't stand. He's been playing from behind for years, and his course of action has been to simply throw money at the problem while getting nothing done in the draft when he actually does have picks. And after 11 years he still can't seem to figure out which pieces to put around his lone remaining draft hit. What do we think is going to change here? Is he all of a sudden going to lose his affinity for long, athletic, non-shooters?

If ownership is unhappy with the results, I think blame should probably start with him. He's got a lot going for him, it's just I don't think a coaching change moves the needle at all. If you want a hard reset, a new set of eyes is probably the way to go. I do know that if I'm Clay Bennett, I'm not paying $200 mil for this type of team.

[1bigfan13]

Everything should be on the table, IMO.

I'd start by firing Presti and Billy Donovan. The most realistic and immediate change starts at these two positions.

My preference would be to bring in a coach with a firmer hand than Donovan/Brooks and who emphasizes a system focused on ball and player movement.....not on padding the stats of one player trying to chase triple double records.

I don't think there's much we can do with the roster. I think we're stuck with our core group of players for at least another year. That'w why I think there has to be a legitimate regime change at the top. Otherwise we're in for another 44-48 win season topped off with another 1st round exit.

[1bigfan13]

We won’t rebuild and we will miss the playoffs.

I'd actually be fine with missing the playoffs next year. Especially if they bring back the same roster and coaching staff.

At least then we'd be in the lottery with a shot at some quality shooters. The last time OKC was in the lottery they were one pick away from adding Devin Booker, a player who would have been absolutely perfect for this team. Next time around, Presti had better make a move to move up the draft board to get his guy.

[Dn4sty]

I think Russ will actually shoot better next year. I keep coming back to the timing of when he had knee surgery. Did the Thunder/Russ wait til last moment? Or did the knee issue just pop up when it did?

[slick_watts]

Presti has had 12 seasons. He is good. Maybe could have had better results with more luck with injuries but he had his share of luck (getting Durant to drop to him). He failed to build a sufficient / true championship culture or get a championship. He wanted a team but let superstars become spoiled babies. His ideological love for the exceptional man overcame the need for teamwork, quality depth, more shared responsibility. He isn't going to win a title with his roster. Continue being good or ok for awhile if you want. No title is coming. If you want a title you need to blow up the roster entirely. Unless Presti will do that, you probably should move on from him. They won't. Donovan should be gone. A coach with more quality and power is needed. Presti choose lightweights that wouldn't challenge him on anything. He dd it his way and came up short.


I highly doubt any team can win a title with a PG who is not a good outside threat. Adams is not the right kind of center for today and was not developed or pushed adequately. He became a prized possession but not worth the investment. PG got hurt. But he also bet wrong on Russ and is only a #2. You are not going to build a championship de-emphasizing / ignoring the primary importance of shooters.

good to see you crow.

[Thunder Up]

Let's also not ignore how incompetent Sammy boy and his staff are when it comes to the second round / trading back into the late first round assessments and evaluations.

There were two stone cold locks that I had going into this past draft, both of which could have been had at the top of the 2nd and would help this team immensely moving forward with almost immediate returns... Bates-Diop and Brunson... and there they are, as rookies, looking very much the part of key pieces this team needed / needs.

Who the hell did we draft again this past draft? Devon Hall, Kevin Hervey and a trade in for Diallo... so two trash cash european league players and a kid who could be a halfway decent athlete off the bench some day.

Nicely done.