2016 Playoffs Round 1: OKC Thunder vs. Dallas Mavericks

[bondom34]

I am a Kanter homer, I already said that, nothing is wrong with that. But you say you are OKC only fan, and you say Kanter gave away 20, and scored 16 in the fourth . So his net impact was negative in the forth. I have a problem with that.
I believe you are Adams only fan. Your blind hate on Kanter is clearly visible, when he played his best game, and best quarter in his career. You base your argument on plus and minuses, which is considered garbage data in statistics. Statistics is a science based on randomization. If data is garbage, what you get is also garbage.
I only said good things about Adams. If he continues to play well, you cant keep two good centers in the same team, no team will affortd that. One player should leave the team, there is nothing wrong with that. It is going to be interesting to know who will stay. Many things depend on KD. If Kd stays, he will prefer a defensive center like Perkins perhaps. If he leaves I am afraid you will be stacked with more Kanter.

I was a fan of the team before Adams.

I like him b/c he's a better player.

And Kanter played well overall last night, but still has much bigger issues with defense than his offense provides. He's making a ton of money and still has an overall negative effect relative to Adams.

And the data is not garbage, its points. If you give up more than you score, you lose.

Tank you for your opinion. Clearly you have right what you believe in. I respect if you really think so. I just can stand politics, blind hate, prejudice. Why do not people get along.

I think we all get along here . There's no blind prejudice going on.

[bondom34]

"Presti's ineptitude" lol.


Hire Ernie Grunfeld or Morey! Small part of me wants him fired for the same reason I liked when Robes was out of the lineup. People just think its such an easy job, when you've got a top 5-10 guy there (not Robes, Presti).

[Pillendreher]

"Presti's ineptitude" lol.


Hire Ernie Grunfeld or Morey! Small part of me wants him fired for the same reason I liked when Robes was out of the lineup. People just think its such an easy job, when you've got a top 5-10 guy there (not Robes, Presti).

Presti lost about every trade he ever made (the only one that worked was the Perk one and the lost that a couple days after by signing Perk to that ridiculous contract). Of course he's inept when it comes to trades. He's a spectacular drafter, but a terrible trader.

[bondom34]

"Presti's ineptitude" lol.


Hire Ernie Grunfeld or Morey! Small part of me wants him fired for the same reason I liked when Robes was out of the lineup. People just think its such an easy job, when you've got a top 5-10 guy there (not Robes, Presti).

Presti lost about every trade he ever made (the only one that worked was the Perk one and the lost that a couple days after by signing Perk to that ridiculous contract). Of course he's inept when it comes to trades. He's a spectacular drafter, but a terrible trader.

The Kanter trade was not a loss. The Foye trade wasn't either, the coach misuses him.

And there's still the issue of having a guy who's one of the best at his job and calling him inept. I guess Durant and Westbrook are too?

[spearsy23]

"Presti's ineptitude" lol.


Hire Ernie Grunfeld or Morey! Small part of me wants him fired for the same reason I liked when Robes was out of the lineup. People just think its such an easy job, when you've got a top 5-10 guy there (not Robes, Presti).

Presti lost about every trade he ever made (the only one that worked was the Perk one and the lost that a couple days after by signing Perk to that ridiculous contract). Of course he's inept when it comes to trades. He's a spectacular drafter, but a terrible trader.

The Kanter trade was not a loss. The Foye trade wasn't either, the coach misuses him.

And there's still the issue of having a guy who's one of the best at his job and calling him inept. I guess Durant and Westbrook are too?

Well, Durant has been so far these playoffs

Honestly, I think Presti is a great GM but has made some really dumb moves. The biggest problem with him is what he fired Scott for. The team outgrew Presti's strengths in the last few years and he hasn't proven he can upgrade through free agency or trade. I like him overall and I'd keep him, but at some point he has to do more than bring in net negative players.

[actively]

.[/quote]
I think we all get along here . There's no blind prejudice going on.[/quote]

No prejudice?? come on now. The guy plays his best game in his career, in a very important playoff game, he scores 16 points in the quarter, you still say he had negative impact based on silly +_.

If you sincere in your beliefs, I still respect that.

[bondom34]

Presti lost about every trade he ever made (the only one that worked was the Perk one and the lost that a couple days after by signing Perk to that ridiculous contract). Of course he's inept when it comes to trades. He's a spectacular drafter, but a terrible trader.

The Kanter trade was not a loss. The Foye trade wasn't either, the coach misuses him.

And there's still the issue of having a guy who's one of the best at his job and calling him inept. I guess Durant and Westbrook are too?

Well, Durant has been so far these playoffs

Honestly, I think Presti is a great GM but has made some really dumb moves. The biggest problem with him is what he fired Scott for. The team outgrew Presti's strengths in the last few years and he hasn't proven he can upgrade through free agency or trade. I like him overall and I'd keep him, but at some point he has to do more than bring in net negative players.

I don't disagree he's made bad moves, but looking around the league you can say that about anyone other than Buford and GSW (blanking on the name now, need coffee). Every team out there has had bad moves. So fire him and go with the probably 90-95 percent shot you get someone worse.

[Pillendreher]

The Kanter trade was not a loss. The Foye trade wasn't either, the coach misuses him.

And there's still the issue of having a guy who's one of the best at his job and calling him inept. I guess Durant and Westbrook are too?

Well, Durant has been so far these playoffs

Honestly, I think Presti is a great GM but has made some really dumb moves. The biggest problem with him is what he fired Scott for. The team outgrew Presti's strengths in the last few years and he hasn't proven he can upgrade through free agency or trade. I like him overall and I'd keep him, but at some point he has to do more than bring in net negative players.

I don't disagree he's made bad moves, but looking around the league you can say that about anyone other than Buford and GSW (blanking on the name now, need coffee). Every team out there has had bad moves.

Since there are only a couple contenders each season, we're not looking to be 'every team out there' - we're looking to be the best team out there. And if you surround your generational talent (has there ever been a better drafted core than Durant, Westbrook, Harden and Ibaka?) with this crap you signed or traded for, well then that's just not good enough.

[bondom34]

Well, Durant has been so far these playoffs

Honestly, I think Presti is a great GM but has made some really dumb moves. The biggest problem with him is what he fired Scott for. The team outgrew Presti's strengths in the last few years and he hasn't proven he can upgrade through free agency or trade. I like him overall and I'd keep him, but at some point he has to do more than bring in net negative players.

I don't disagree he's made bad moves, but looking around the league you can say that about anyone other than Buford and GSW (blanking on the name now, need coffee). Every team out there has had bad moves.

Since there are only a couple contenders each season, we're not looking to be 'every team out there' - we're looking to be the best team out there. And if you surround your generational talent (has there ever been a better drafted core than Durant, Westbrook, Harden and Ibaka?) with this crap you signed or traded for, well then that's just not good enough.

...

So there's a few problems here:
1. You have the high end talent yes, but that leaves no money for the fringe players.
2. You have the high end talent.
3. You lose the GM, you then expect to get better surrounding talent? That's pretty unlikely.
4. The surrounding talent, overall, isn't terrible. Kanter's been solid when used correctly (and he mostly is). Cam should play more, Morrow too. Singler's benched, Dion's bad but playing well now. So replace Dion and you've got a good bench too.

We've been through this, but depending on who you call "contenders" the money is a way different situation for everyone.

The Spurs have most of their guys on a discount
GSW has Curry at half price.
The Cavs had a hometown hero return and 2 first overall draft picks to trade for Love, plus another used on Irving.

To boot, the timing of the contracts on those rosters allowed for other moves to be made. None of those teams had to max out 2-3 players in a 2 year span.

[Andre Roberstan]

I don't disagree he's made bad moves, but looking around the league you can say that about anyone other than Buford and GSW (blanking on the name now, need coffee). Every team out there has had bad moves.

Since there are only a couple contenders each season, we're not looking to be 'every team out there' - we're looking to be the best team out there. And if you surround your generational talent (has there ever been a better drafted core than Durant, Westbrook, Harden and Ibaka?) with this crap you signed or traded for, well then that's just not good enough.

...

So there's a few problems here:
1. You have the high end talent yes, but that leaves no money for the fringe players.
2. You have the high end talent.
3. You lose the GM, you then expect to get better surrounding talent? That's pretty unlikely.
4. The surrounding talent, overall, isn't terrible. Kanter's been solid when used correctly (and he mostly is). Cam should play more, Morrow too. Singler's benched, Dion's bad but playing well now. So replace Dion and you've got a good bench too.

We've been through this, but depending on who you call "contenders" the money is a way different situation for everyone.

The Spurs have most of their guys on a discount
GSW has Curry at half price.
The Cavs had a hometown hero return and 2 first overall draft picks to trade for Love, plus another used on Irving.

To boot, the timing of the contracts on those rosters allowed for other moves to be made. None of those teams had to max out 2-3 players in a 2 year span.

PREACH. The surrounding talent could be better, but in some ways Presti's been a victim of his own success due to every player expiring at the same time.

The two teams that have a better overall team have guys on discounts. We don't. If people want to hold that against Presti, fine, whatever, it's a free country. But normally if you've got guys making the amount of money that our top players are, the rest of our team looks like the Heat squad that got taken apart by the Spurs—lots of old washed vets and a couple of really scrubby rookies.

Every super team in recent memory has had someone take a paycut. Even the Heat big 3. It's because the money flat doesn't work any other way.

"Well why can't we get Ray Allen to come fill a 3pt shooting hole?" It's cause we're in Oklahoma and don't have sandy beaches. MIA gets free agents because they're a well-run org and have a great location, SAS gets free agents because they're a well-run org and have the best coach in the league.

Has Presti made mistakes? Sure. But give the man credit where credit is due.

And btw, as far as maximizing the other draws, they've done an excellent job. What I've heard about how they take care of the players off the court is really good. Staff, facilities, all solid. Coaching...jury's still out for me.

[bondom34]

Well, got 2 questions to Horne in his chat. No indication Kanter will be traded (but now would be a good time), but he also said Adams has a special value to the team and there's' basically no shot he goes anywhere.

[ducler]

[Texas Chuck]

I am going to take the fact that this thread is on page 41 to be a good sign for tonight.

In all seriousness, I just hope we go down fighting and shake hands at the end of this. And be glad we got you guys back in 2011 when we still could..... We've actually done okay with Durant and even Westbrook really. Enes freaking Kanter tho has just abused our bigs badly.

[tleikheen]

.. We've actually done okay with Durant and even Westbrook really. Enes freaking Kanter tho has just abused our bigs badly.

This is the wrong place to say or notice Kanters good play.......moderator is using this forum to lead the dump Kanter movement .If you think Kanter played good the 4th quarter of the last game ,then the moderator will let you know Kanter gave up 20 pts ,don't ask about the other 4 team mates ,it was Kanter that while scoring 16 pts in the quarter he gave up 20...SMH,true

[Texas Chuck]

.. We've actually done okay with Durant and even Westbrook really. Enes freaking Kanter tho has just abused our bigs badly.

This is the wrong place to say or notice Kanters good play.......moderator is using this forum to lead the dump Kanter movement .If you think Kanter played good the 4th quarter of the last game ,then the moderator will let you know Kanter gave up 20 pts ,don't ask about the other 4 team mates ,it was Kanter that while scoring 16 pts in the quarter he gave up 20...SMH,true

is bondom like beetlejuice or something where you are afraid to say his name?

And I can't imagine its a secret to Thunder fans that Kanter isn't good defensively. But he is a load on the glass and in the paint. And that's one of the Mavs' weaknesses and he is doing a great job of exploiting it.

As far as moving Kanter goes, I mean I get the arguments--Adams is a better fit as the starter and he's going to have to get paid in a year. Plus the Thunder have a real need on the wing and little in the way of cap flexibility and assets. So moving Kanter's money to address bigger needs is logical. You might disagree with "moderator", but I'd imagine you can at least see the arguments.

[bondom34]

is bondom like beetlejuice or something where you are afraid to say his name?

It's showtime.

[Andre Roberstan]

Well, got 2 questions to Horne in his chat. No indication Kanter will be traded (but now would be a good time), but he also said Adams has a special value to the team and there's' basically no shot he goes anywhere.

Adams being core makes me incredibly happy.

[bondom34]

Well, got 2 questions to Horne in his chat. No indication Kanter will be traded (but now would be a good time), but he also said Adams has a special value to the team and there's' basically no shot he goes anywhere.

Adams being core makes me incredibly happy.

Same, when he said he didn't hear of Kanter/Ibaka being traded it scared me as he didn't mention Adams. But when he answered the 2nd question it helped.

[actively]

If Kanter continues to play well in the playoffs, I think he will, OKC will never trade a 23 years old guy, who is offensively gifted , like Kanter, especially to rivals like Portland or Dallas. Kanter needs to play another couple year under a defensive minded coach to reach an allstar level. I hope he stays another year with leaders like KD and Russ, so he has a lot to learn from them, too.

[Andre Roberstan]

If Kanter continues to play well in the playoffs, I think he will, OKC will never trade a 23 years old guy, who is offensively gifted , like Kanter, especially to rivals like Portland or Dallas. Kanter needs to play another couple year under a defensive minded coach to reach an allstar level. I hope he stays another year with leaders like KD and Russ, so he has a lot to learn from them, too.

All things being equal, I'd rather keep him. But we have a hole on the wing, our frontcourt is very strong, and with the amount of money he makes we can't upgrade any other position without moving him. I'd bet you anything that barring KD leaving, he's traded within the next 2 offseasons.