2018-2019 OKC Thunder Regular Season Pt 1: A Renewed Hope

[Pillendreher]

I can't even remember a four week period like we have now where we defended this well without him, even taking competition into account. can you?

It's not like you have two separate sets of data for Roberson and our defense. The most time he missed was one month straigh in the 2015/2016 season. And back then he only played 20 minutes a night, sometimes even just 15 minutes because the team was pushing for Dion Weighters to be that fifth guy.

[slick_watts]

or actually a change in coaching.

great! that's good news if true and is a welcome change for donovan and the thunder. why can't we acknowledge it for what it is? coaches often grow and develop just like players do. look at terry stotts over there in portland. he was a dunce when he started out as a head coach.

Maybe we should have schemed for Adams to be closer to the basket on defense last season instead of sticking with the same bull even though it wasn't working anymore without Roberson. But back then we were an "over team" and trapped the **** Utah Jazz on the PnR. Yet that was also Westbrook's fault the way I remember it.

no, westbrook is responsible for his horrific play offensively games 1-4 of that series, and especially game four when he got into foul trouble playing like a maniac against ricky rubio who was disintegrating him.

i'm not asking anyone to absolve donovan of his mistakes, just recognize a good thing when it is happening if you're going to smash him to bits whenever the thunder lose a couple of games. it's only fair.

Donovan has to make up for years of bad coaching before I start praising him. And I'm not going to get fooled into doing that when he has a roster to work with that is full of defense first guys. If there's one thing this team should be good at either way, it's defense.

well, at least you acknowledge that you're hopelessly biased...

[Pillendreher]

Donovan has to make up for years of bad coaching before I start praising him. And I'm not going to get fooled into doing that when he has a roster to work with that is full of defense first guys. If there's one thing this team should be good at either way, it's defense.

well, at least you acknowledge that you're hopelessly biased...

I'm not. But I see that you are since you're willing to ignore last season. When a coach has been as horrible as Donovan has been, a lot has to happen before I'm handing out praise. The team is full of defensive roleplayers and is great defensively. That's (very) good. But it's also something that was supposed to happen to some extent. Unless you want to excuse being a (well) below average defense with this roster like you're insinuating here.

Since we're at it let's talk about something regarding this defensive performance. While completely exonerating Donovan, you talked about how no coaching change would matter at the beginning of the season. Now you're trying to prance around with this weird "I told you so" shtick on here. So what is it then? Is Westbrook suddenly coachable? Is Paul George suddenly coachable? Did Donovan suddenly become a respected leader? Your cherrypicking is obvious.

[bondom34]

I gave credit earlier. And yea, considering you said explicitly he's a bad coach going to say you can't have it both ways.

coaches can improve. brooks was case in point. he went from clueless to fairly decent. i don't think donovan is especially helpful but if the defense holds up despite the roadblocks, wouldn't it warrant a re-evaluation of him? i think so. and he should get some dap in the meantime.

of course this could all be an illusion of small sample variance and teams will shoot 40%+ from three in the corners the next month and our defense will fall to below league average like it usually does without andre roberson. the premise is: what if it doesn't? i can't even remember a four week period like we have now where we defended this well without him, even taking competition into account. can you?

I'm glad you think Beyer is this great a defensive coach.

[slick_watts]

But it's also something that was supposed to happen to some extent,

heh, what? i didn't expect our defense to be all that much better than league average with andre roberson out. did you? maybe swapping out melo for noel and patterson would offset some of that. this team wasn't supposed to be an elite defensive team without 'dre!

Since we're at it let's talk about something regarding this defensive performance. While completely exonerating Donovan, you talked about how no coaching change would matter at the beginning of the season.

here it is again. you're just making things up. i never 'completely exonerated donovan'. what is wrong with you? i acknowledged that donovan is an issue but is part of a bigger problem with the organization as a whole. and the ridiculous scapegoating of donovan only was irresponsible and misleading. case in point: the defense has performed better this year so far without 'dre.

a coaching change wouldn't change some of the issues that were discussed i.e. players not listening, or the culture, or the bbiq of the team in general. again, you are misrepresenting my claims as usual.

Now you're trying to prance around with this weird "I told you so" shtick on here. So what is it then? Is Westbrook suddenly coachable? Is Paul George suddenly coachable? Did Donovan suddenly become a respected leader? Your cherrypicking is obvious.

get over yourself. 'shtick'? everything you don't agree with is a shtick. it makes constructive discussion impossible with you.

are westbrook and george suddenly coachable? i doubt it. you said yourself what's being done differently on defense at the moment and it has little to do with westbrook and george. perhaps donovan is just controlling the things he has control over to improve the team? it's possible.

you've already acknowledged that donovan has made a productive change to the defense. that's a good start.

I'm glad you think Beyer is this great a defensive coach.

you and pill are exactly the same. really, all you do when you find an opposing opinion is start putting up straw men or misrepresenting the positions of others. it'd be better to just say nothing tbh.

[bondom34]

But it's also something that was supposed to happen to some extent,

heh, what? i didn't expect our defense to be all that much better than league average with andre roberson out. did you? maybe swapping out melo for noel and patterson would offset some of that. this team wasn't supposed to be an elite defensive team without 'dre!

Since we're at it let's talk about something regarding this defensive performance. While completely exonerating Donovan, you talked about how no coaching change would matter at the beginning of the season.

here it is again. you're just making things up. i never 'completely exonerated donovan'. what is wrong with you? i acknowledged that donovan is an issue but is part of a bigger problem with the organization as a whole. and the ridiculous scapegoating of donovan only was irresponsible and misleading. case in point: the defense has performed better this year so far without 'dre.

a coaching change wouldn't change some of the issues that were discussed i.e. players not listening, or the culture, or the bbiq of the team in general. again, you are misrepresenting my claims as usual.

Now you're trying to prance around with this weird "I told you so" shtick on here. So what is it then? Is Westbrook suddenly coachable? Is Paul George suddenly coachable? Did Donovan suddenly become a respected leader? Your cherrypicking is obvious.

get over yourself. 'shtick'? everything you don't agree with is a shtick. it makes constructive discussion impossible with you.

are westbrook and george suddenly coachable? i doubt it. you said yourself what's being done differently on defense at the moment and it has little to do with westbrook and george. perhaps donovan is just controlling the things he has control over to improve the team? it's possible.

you've already acknowledged that donovan has made a productive change to the defense. that's a good start.

I'm glad you think Beyer is this great a defensive coach.

you and pill are exactly the same. really, all you do when you find an opposing opinion is start putting up straw men or misrepresenting the positions of others. it'd be better to just say nothing tbh.

I literally credited Donovan a few days ago. You keep playing both sides and think people are too stupid to see through your garbage. Go away. Nobody likes this crap and I've already gotten PMs from people saying you're literally a reason they don't post here because you try to do this stuff. Thanks for killing a good discussion board.

[slick_watts]

I literally credited Donovan a few days ago. You keep playing both sides and think people are too stupid to see through your garbage. Go away. Nobody likes this crap

you can't bully me like you do getrichordie or the others you disagree with. i'm glad you credited donovan, i must have missed it. but my commentary is mostly about the pitfalls of scapegoating.

I've already gotten PMs from people saying you're literally a reason they don't post here because you try to do this stuff. Thanks for killing a good discussion board.

oh no.

[Pillendreher]

Since we're at it let's talk about something regarding this defensive performance. While completely exonerating Donovan, you talked about how no coaching change would matter at the beginning of the season.

here it is again. you're just making things up. i never 'completely exonerated donovan'. what is wrong with you? i acknowledged that donovan is an issue but is part of a bigger problem with the organization as a whole. and the ridiculous scapegoating of donovan only was irresponsible and misleading. case in point: the defense has performed better this year so far without 'dre.

a coaching change wouldn't change some of the issues that were discussed i.e. players not listening, or the culture, or the bbiq of the team in general. again, you are misrepresenting my claims as usual.

Of course you did. And you're doing it yet again. You're conveniently ignoring everything is directly related to coaching while only listing things that are more player and franchise related. We all know where you're going with this. Coaching only comes into play for you when things go well.

are westbrook and george suddenly coachable? i doubt it. you said yourself what's being done differently on defense at the moment and it has little to do with westbrook and george. perhaps donovan is just controlling the things he has control over to improve the team? it's possible.

Oh. So now he has control over things even though you've stated multiple times that the teams' issues are beyond a head coach's control. Pray tell then: Why is it that we should praise him for something that should have been done months ago? The minute Roberson went down they should have worked at adjusting the defense. Yet they were ignoring the issue and instead tried to insert random wings into Roberson's role on defense even though nobody could play defense like Roberson could.

it'd be better to just say nothing tbh.

Where's the fun in that if nobody takes your bait anymore? Gotta keep you involved.

[bondom34]

I literally credited Donovan a few days ago. You keep playing both sides and think people are too stupid to see through your garbage. Go away. Nobody likes this crap

you can't bully me like you do getrichordie or the others you disagree with. i'm glad you credited donovan, i must have missed it. but my commentary is mostly about the pitfalls of scapegoating.

I've already gotten PMs from people saying you're literally a reason they don't post here because you try to do this stuff. Thanks for killing a good discussion board.

oh no.

No, you tried to call people out for things they've already said. And you yourself won't own up to the crap you post. Beyer's been great! And Schroder too! How bout it! You called out Donovan, Beyer, Schroder, Grant, and others and haven't credited most. You post inflammatory crap to rile people up and are a reason many here don't post as much . I post on other team forums to avoid you because you manage to be a crazy person here and actively ruin discussion. Go away.

[slick_watts]

Of course you did. And you're doing it yet again. You're conveniently ignoring everything is directly related to coaching while only listing things that are more player and franchise related. We all know where you're going with this. Coaching only comes into play for you when things go well.

if the defense holds up would this be an example of billy donovan making a productive change to an aspect of the team he can fully control or not?

imo if that did happen, that would be the case of donovan accomplishing something that many (myself included) would think he was incapable of doing.

Oh. So now he has control over things even though you've stated multiple times that the teams' issues are beyond a head coach's control.

certain things are definitely beyond his control. we saw that last season for sure. changing the pnr scheme for adams on defense is surely in his control. you don't agree?

Pray tell then: Why is it that we should praise him for something that should have been done months ago? The minute Roberson went down they should have worked at adjusting the defense. Yet they were ignoring the issue and instead tried to insert random wings into Roberson's role on defense even though nobody could play defense like Roberson could

i have two theories about this. my first is that there may not have been any way to effectively apply these changes to the team with melo playing so much. i may have underestimated melo's destructiveness to the defense last season. some are saying that our improved defense this year is evidence that 'dre wasn't so valuable but perhaps the defense they played last season with melo is evidence that 'dre isn't valued enough.

i also think they thought corey brewer was actually good. which is obviously dumb.

i'm not trying to absolve donovan or the team of their poor decisions they've made in the past, i'm just looking to see whether credit will be given to him for positive changes he may be making now. i'll re-iterate: i don't even like donovan.

Where's the fun in that if nobody takes your bait anymore? Gotta keep you involved.

no bait. only truth.

[slick_watts]

Beyer's been great!

has okc media done any reporting on what beyer's supposed contributions have been so far? i'd be more liable to change my thoughts on him if this were the case. beyer has a much longer history of incompetence than donovan, without 'lack of professional experience' existing as a caveat.

And Schroder too! How bout it!

has schroder exceeded your expectations? high usage, low efficiency... defensive aptitude may be better than expected but we'll see. a disaster sharing the court with westbrook so far.

Grant

grant is much improved. i've given credit to him on this board i think, lately. the gap between him and patterson is much narrower than it has any right being-- a lot of that b/c grant has exceeded expectations.

You post inflammatory crap to rile people up and are a reason many here don't post as much . I post on other team forums to avoid you because you manage to be a crazy person here and actively ruin discussion. Go away.

i looked for one but i don't think there's an emoji available that expresses the extent of my disinterest in this statement.

i still love you.

[bondom34]

Beyer's been great!

has okc media done any reporting on what beyer's supposed contributions have been so far? i'd be more liable to change my thoughts on him if this were the case. beyer has a much longer history of incompetence than donovan, without 'lack of professional experience' existing as a caveat.

And Schroder too! How bout it!

has schroder exceeded your expectations? high usage, low efficiency... defensive aptitude may be better than expected but we'll see. a disaster sharing the court with westbrook so far.

Grant

grant is much improved. i've given credit to him on this board i think, lately. the gap between him and patterson is much narrower than it has any right being-- a lot of that b/c grant has exceeded expectations.

You post inflammatory crap to rile people up and are a reason many here don't post as much . I post on other team forums to avoid you because you manage to be a crazy person here and actively ruin discussion. Go away.

i looked for one but i don't think there's an emoji available that expresses the extent of my disinterest in this statement.

i still love you.

Go away.

And media has said Donovan's great for 3 years now. Your act is tired. I'm done here, I'll stick to posting elsewhere for a while, you're not worth wasting energy on.

[slick_watts]

Go away.

And media has said Donovan's great for 3 years now.

that's thunder media for you, but wouldn't that make it even more likely they'd write one about beyer being great, if that was the sentiment of the team? i'm surprised they haven't done a piece on him yet considering he replaced griffin who is the uber defense assistant and our defense has done well despite that and no roberson.

just curious what beyer's role is in all this before i change my tune. evidence, bondom.

Your act is tired. I'm done here, I'll stick to posting elsewhere for a while, you're not worth wasting energy on.

i'm sorry you feel this way. you're still my buddy.

[Balkman32]

When will the Thunder have to make a decision on Deonte Burton? He has been with the Thunder the whole year and I believe his 45 day time limit with the team is coming up in the next couple of weeks.

[Pillendreher]

RPM got released:

http://www.espn.com/nba/statistics/rpm

Schröder: 0.47 | -0.31 | +0.16 - 23rd among PGs
Westbrook 0.91 | -1.09 | -0.18 - 27th among PGs
-----------------------
Abrines: -1.57 | 0.38 | 1.19 - 43rd among SGs
Diallo: -0.97 | -0.92 | -1.89 - 65 among SGs
Ferguson: -2.39 | -1.08 | -3.47 - 95th among SGs
-----------------------
George: 3.59 | 2.26 | 5.85 - 2nd among SFs, 5th overall
Grant: -0.64 | 1.36 | 0.72 - 14th among SFs
-----------------------
Noel -1.11 | 2.28 | 1.17 - 18th among PFs
Patterson -1.58 | -0.22 | -1.80 - 74th among PFs
-----------------------
Adams 0.51 | 1.60 | 2.11 - 10th among Cs

[slick_watts]

RPM got released:

http://www.espn.com/nba/statistics/rpm

Schröder: 0.47 | -0.31 | +0.16 - 23rd among PGs
Westbrook 0.91 | -1.09 | -0.18 - 27th among PGs
-----------------------
Abrines: -1.57 | 0.38 | 1.19 - 43rd among SGs
Diallo: -0.97 | -0.92 | -1.89 - 65 among SGs
Ferguson: -2.39 | -1.08 | -3.47 - 95th among SGs
-----------------------
George: 3.59 | 2.26 | 5.85 - 2nd among SFs, 5th overall
Grant: -0.64 | 1.36 | 0.72 - 14th among SFs
-----------------------
Noel -1.11 | 2.28 | 1.17 - 18th among PFs
Patterson -1.58 | -0.22 | -1.80 - 74th among PFs
-----------------------
Adams 0.51 | 1.60 | 2.11 - 10th among Cs

grant / patterson rpm gap is something. wonder if that continues.

ferguson lol.

[ThunderBolt]

Adams RPM is always worse than you would expect

[Old Man Game]

In sum, Mr. 'You can't have it both ways' is trying to have it both ways. Bob Beyer is an incompetent nincompoop but the team is winning and the defense is good so Dono, despite 3 full years of evidence pointing to him being an average to below average coach needs credit where due.

we went from replacement level to average in the course of one conversation. i'll take it.

A distinction without a difference in this context. Is he the equivalent of a D Leaguer? I believe there are probably Coaches in the D League who would be at least as good as the average NBA coach, yes (Stack comes to mind for instance).

[CROklahoma]

As of RPM.
PG is a beast so far.
Grant is on a huge rise, he has the most potential on our current roster, and is hugely overcoming all expectations about him.

[hardenASG13]

RPM got released:

http://www.espn.com/nba/statistics/rpm

Schröder: 0.47 | -0.31 | +0.16 - 23rd among PGs
Westbrook 0.91 | -1.09 | -0.18 - 27th among PGs
-----------------------
Abrines: -1.57 | 0.38 | 1.19 - 43rd among SGs
Diallo: -0.97 | -0.92 | -1.89 - 65 among SGs
Ferguson: -2.39 | -1.08 | -3.47 - 95th among SGs
-----------------------
George: 3.59 | 2.26 | 5.85 - 2nd among SFs, 5th overall
Grant: -0.64 | 1.36 | 0.72 - 14th among SFs
-----------------------
Noel -1.11 | 2.28 | 1.17 - 18th among PFs
Patterson -1.58 | -0.22 | -1.80 - 74th among PFs
-----------------------
Adams 0.51 | 1.60 | 2.11 - 10th among Cs

grant / patterson rpm gap is something. wonder if that continues.

ferguson lol.

Well, grant outplays him basically every night, so there's that.....