OKC Thunder Offseason 2015

[Balkman32]

Thunder has no way to sign big contracts in the future that aren't already on the roster. This allows them to trade Kanter down the road for a 2 guard, for example, that they couldn't otherwise get. Trade Kanter and sign Adams when the time comes. Easy peasy

I don't think Kanter will be here for long. Don't mess w/ Presti's cap. Portland will rue the day they messed w. OKC.

Can't trade Kanter for one year .

A whole year? I thought it was just till dec 15?

[Thunderhead]

I really don't care if owners have to pay the tax, screw it , so they over pay Kanter ................ lets win , and win now ..

I don't know if paying means winning though, thats the issue.

True.

But I would rather have Kanter, than not.

If they let Kanter walk, who they gonna sign ? Or do they just start Adams and play a lot of small ball when he's on the bench ? Or hey, I guess Perk is available

Kanter is not perfect, but perfection is not gonna walk through the door.

And 4 yr / 70 mill looks big now, but it won't when the new TV money kicks in , and most likely, after a new CBA.

Here's to hoping Presti matches, and here's to hoping they get some defense out of Kanter.

Also, it will be very interesting how many touches Kanter can get, if he's on the court with KD and Russ. He's yet to play with KD. This will be fun to watch.

So many new and interesting things this season , hahaha

[Balkman32]

Alright, guess I gotta talk myself into this.

Kanter did still have a better on/off than Adams, and showed some willingness to pass. If he improves just a little defensively, maybe its OK.

First instincts are usually correct. Kanter's a mess on defense. He's got a weird attitude. Thunder will be an elite team in the West whether he's here or not.

I'm going to throw my theory out there -- I don't think Presti intended on retaining Kanter since the first meeting. Re-signing Singler right after + not making much noise moving salary convinced me of this. If Presti was intent on keeping him, he'd surely been active in trying to move salary and I think he would have had second thoughts on locking Singler up. The Thunder payroll would balloon to $90mm+ if we kept Kanter -- too much for a small market.

I think the surprise for Presti right now is that Kanter signed an offer sheet, not giving him an opportunity to extract value in a s&t.

If Portland really wanted him they would have done a sign and trade. There is no reason for Sam not to match then deal Kanter later if he does not like his contract.

[Andre Roberstan]

So is this going to cost us the same as Greg Monroe, provided we match? I think I would have preferred Moose to be honest...

I would have too, but Moose would have had to approve the trade and he would have been UFA afterwards, which we usually don't have a great track record with.

[Podirk]

I don't think Kanter will be here for long. Don't mess w/ Presti's cap. Portland will rue the day they messed w. OKC.

Can't trade Kanter for one year .

A whole year? I thought it was just till dec 15?

From Wiki - NBA salary cap...for what it's worth...
No free agent signed in the offseason can be traded until December 15 of that year or until three months have passed (whichever comes later), a rule that prevents teams from signing free agents with the intent of using them strictly as trade fodder. For draft picks this moratorium lasts 30 days

[Thunderhead]

I don't think Kanter will be here for long. Don't mess w/ Presti's cap. Portland will rue the day they messed w. OKC.

Can't trade Kanter for one year .

A whole year? I thought it was just till dec 15?

A whole year, due to matching offer in RFA.

[Kizz Fastfists]

I'm don't in okc signing Kanter but the price is horrendous for a 1 way player. Adams will be gone at RFA as OKC cannot aford both.

Given the amount the cap is going to go up they should be able to do bath. IF Adams costs the max to re-sign they might trade Kanter at that point. Keep in mind that Kanter's max is based on the current cap. So he'll have around $20M salary with Adams an FA with a projected cap of $108 for the 2017-2018 season! That means the tax will be in the $125M range.

Look at these numbers for the projected salary cap:

2015-2016- $67M
2016-2017- $89M
2017-2018- $108M

That is over $40M in cap space coming! Yes, KD, Russ and Ibaka will get raises eating some of it. However, there should still be enough for Kanter and Adams in 2017-2018 then to pay McGary the next season when Kanter will probably walk with his player option. OKC can afford to keep everyone. They will pay the tax this year, but should be able to get back under it next year and will definitely be clear of it for 2017-2018.

[Podirk]

I'm don't in okc signing Kanter but the price is horrendous for a 1 way player. Adams will be gone at RFA as OKC cannot aford both.

Given the amount the cap is going to go up they should be able to do bath. IF Adams costs the max to re-sign they might trade Kanter at that point. Keep in mind that Kanter's max is based on the current cap. So he'll have around $20M salary with Adams an FA with a projected cap of $108 for the 2017-2018 season! That means the tax will be in the $125M range.

Look at these numbers for the projected salary cap:

2015-2016- $67M
2016-2017- $89M
2017-2018- $108M

That is over $40M in cap space coming! Yes, KD, Russ and Ibaka will get raises eating some of it. However, there should still be enough for Kanter and Adams in 2017-2018 then to pay McGary the next season when Kanter will probably walk with his player option. OKC can afford to keep everyone. They will pay the tax this year, but should be able to get back under it next year and will definitely be clear of it for 2017-2018.

[Thunderhead]

This is from Larry Coons CBA FAQ , under #44 Restricted Free Agency

If a team matches an offer sheet and retains its free agent, then for one year they cannot trade him without his consent, and during that year cannot trade him at all to the team that signed him to the offer sheet. They also can't trade the player in a sign-and-trade transaction (see question number 91). A restricted free agent's resulting contract (whether with the new team or the contract is matched by the player's prior team) cannot be amended in any manner for one year.

http://www.cbafaq.com/salarycap.htm

[Podirk]

This is from Larry Coons CBA FAQ , under #44 Restricted Free Agency

If a team matches an offer sheet and retains its free agent, then for one year they cannot trade him without his consent, and during that year cannot trade him at all to the team that signed him to the offer sheet. They also can't trade the player in a sign-and-trade transaction (see question number 91). A restricted free agent's resulting contract (whether with the new team or the contract is matched by the player's prior team) cannot be amended in any manner for one year.

http://www.cbafaq.com/salarycap.htm

Thanks, I knew that was where to go, but can't get it to pull up in my current situation.

[Balkman32]

Kanter will make more than Westbrook next season.

[bondom34]

Kanter will make more than Westbrook next season.

Not quite, but its close.

And I find it funny that both fanbases are equally unexcited about this contract.

[Bravenewworld]

We all knew this would happen and those of us with realistic expectations already figured he would sign a max or near max contract.
Sometimes i think some of you guys only want to see what you want. You focus too much on his defense and attempting to devalue him for us, that you fail to realize franchises drool for a guy who will put up 20-10 w/high percentages and in the post, in under 30min.

That's funny, I've always thought the same about fans so glamoured by Kanter's offense they totally ignore his pathetic effort on defense. You see what you want to see.

One thing for sure, if Kanter is on the Thunder sideline next season, it won't be boring.

I dont think anyone has ignored his defense, its simply not an issue when we are talking about adding a 20-10 low post center to this team. And as mentioned, apparently everyone else can see that value except a few people on these boards.

[spearsy23]

We all knew this would happen and those of us with realistic expectations already figured he would sign a max or near max contract.
Sometimes i think some of you guys only want to see what you want. You focus too much on his defense and attempting to devalue him for us, that you fail to realize franchises drool for a guy who will put up 20-10 w/high percentages and in the post, in under 30min.

That's funny, I've always thought the same about fans so glamoured by Kanter's offense they totally ignore his pathetic effort on defense. You see what you want to see.

One thing for sure, if Kanter is on the Thunder sideline next season, it won't be boring.

I dont think anyone has ignored his defense, its simply not an issue when we are talking about adding a 20-10 low post center to this team. And as mentioned, apparently everyone else can see that value except a few people on these boards.

Can you explain this to us? Why is his defense not an issue? We all get that he's superb offensively, but if he is so bad defensively that it hurts more than his offense helps why is that not an issue? Was Perk's offense not an issue? Is Robes offense an issue? Flashy numbers don't mean a lot if the other team gets them too.

[Waynearchetype]

Reminder that David Lee put up 18/9 for GS the previous two seasons. He had similar things said of him. They hardly played him this season, benching him in favor of someone who scored and rebounded less. He played in the entire playoffs for less than 5 minutes. Then was traded for Gerald Wallace.
Kanter has the benefit of age, but we live in a world of advanced stats that tell a different and more accurate story than normal counting stats do.

[bondom34]

Reminder that David Lee put up 18/9 for GS the previous two seasons. He had similar things said of him. They hardly played him this season, benching him in favor of someone who scored and rebounded less. He played in the entire playoffs for less than 5 minutes. Then was traded for Gerald Wallace.
Kanter has the benefit of age, but we live in a world of advanced stats that tell a different and more accurate story than normal counting stats do.

You can have him !

[Waynearchetype]

Reminder that David Lee put up 18/9 for GS the previous two seasons. He had similar things said of him. They hardly played him this season, benching him in favor of someone who scored and rebounded less. He played in the entire playoffs for less than 5 minutes. Then was traded for Gerald Wallace.
Kanter has the benefit of age, but we live in a world of advanced stats that tell a different and more accurate story than normal counting stats do.

You can have him !

I don't want him

[Bravenewworld]

Can you explain this to us? Why is his defense not an issue? We all get that he's superb offensively, but if he is so bad defensively that it hurts more than his offense helps why is that not an issue? Was Perk's offense not an issue? Is Robes offense an issue? Flashy numbers don't mean a lot if the other team gets them too.

Because its not a 1 on 1 game?
Because having one guy with bad defense on a team that is centered around strong defense is not going to be a determent?

The numbers are stupid to pay attention to. No one takes any value from a 20 game split with a team that was 7 players different then it was at the start of the season and a quarter injured. That is not showing you anything of value for the next season, so you really need to stop thinking it shows anything. Or, at least stop bringing it because it seems you and one or two other people here are the only ones who put any value on this sad, sad, sad, measurement.

All i can do is point to Zach Randolph and the Grizzlies. A similarly defensive Grizz team who added a similarly bad defensive Zach and his lack of defense ended up not being an issue because the team was a good defensive team. You can easily subsidize bad defense, again, as seen when we had KMart. Who sits right next to ZBo and Kanter on the bad defenders list.

[Andre Roberstan]

Can you explain this to us? Why is his defense not an issue? We all get that he's superb offensively, but if he is so bad defensively that it hurts more than his offense helps why is that not an issue? Was Perk's offense not an issue? Is Robes offense an issue? Flashy numbers don't mean a lot if the other team gets them too.

Because its not a 1 on 1 game?
Because having one guy with bad defense on a team that is centered around strong defense is not going to be a determent?

The numbers are stupid to pay attention to. No one takes any value from a 20 game split with a team that was 7 players different then it was at the start of the season and a quarter injured. That is not showing you anything of value for the next season, so you really need to stop thinking it shows anything. Or, at least stop bringing it because it seems you and one or two other people here are the only ones who put any value on this sad, sad, sad, measurement.

All i can do is point to Zach Randolph and the Grizzlies. A similarly defensive Grizz team who added a similarly bad defensive Zach and his lack of defense ended up not being an issue because the team was a good defensive team. You can easily subsidize bad defense, again, as seen when we had KMart. Who sits right next to ZBo and Kanter on the bad defenders list.

KMart also didn't play the most important defensive position on the court.

[Waynearchetype]

All i can do is point to Zach Randolph and the Grizzlies. A similarly defensive Grizz team who added a similarly bad defensive Zach and his lack of defense ended up not being an issue because the team was a good defensive team. You can easily subsidize bad defense, again, as seen when we had KMart. Who sits right next to ZBo and Kanter on the bad defenders list.

The David Lee / GS situation is quite a bit more similar. Randolph and the Grizzlies wasn't a match made in heaven at first, and the Grizzlies didn't start becoming a top tier western team until refs stopped calling all those fouls on Randolphs attempts at defense. He still isn't good, but he gets away with a lot to make up for it and is a pretty neutral defender.