Starting PF

Balkman32 · Post #1 » by **Balkman32** » Thu May 27, 2010 7:06 pm

The Biggest need is a big man who can come in and play defense, grab rebounds and score points. The perfict fit would be players like Bosh or Amare. Then the second tier of the David Lee's and Carlos Boozer, and a third tier of a Channing Frye and Amir Johnson. That areall free agents. Then there are trade option like Al Jefferson, Michael Beasley, Carl Landry, Troy Murphy.

Everyone is going to come on here and say the Thunder have Ibaka and Green. It is 100% correct that Ibaka can move into this role. But, to have Green and Ibaka come off the Bench would do wonders for this team. At the end of the game the Thunder can have Ibaka, Green, Durant, and Westbrook out on the floor with either the new PF, Harden, Seflosha, Kristic, or Maynor.

Make your predicitions on who it is going to be:

MrToad · Post #2 » by **MrToad** » Thu May 27, 2010 7:58 pm

The more I think about it, the more I'd like to see David Lee come here. He can start at PF, and rotate over to C when we want to bring in another PF.
This raises another question. If we do get a starting PF, who comes off the bench first... Ibaka or Green?

Post #3 » by **sonictecture** » Fri May 28, 2010 2:17 am

Are there enough minutes left to bring Green and Ibaka off the bench if you add any of the other players from the first or second tier?

I think if you add one of those players Ibaka moves to center and Green becomes a 20mpg player or is jettisoned. Or Ibaka is jettisoned.

David Lee vs. Jeff Green is an interesting comparison. Let's compare the categories?

Physical Measurements = Nearly Identical
Athletic Ability = Very close
Defense = Edge Green
Rebounding = Advantage Lee
Scoring = Very close
Passing = Edge Lee
Chemistry = Edge Green

If you were drafting the two players today you might take David Lee due to his tendency to play a little bit bigger than Green, discounting Green's versatility due to him not being a prototypical power forward.

The question is would it be worth it to break up the current team for a player that is maybe slightly better than Green?

Balkman32 · Post #4 » by **Balkman32** » Fri May 28, 2010 3:15 am

If I bring in 1st tiered PF I would give Ibaka n' green starter min's. Kristic, n' Hardens, n' Tabo's minutes would suffer a little bit.

Canomad · Post #5 » by **Canomad** » Fri May 28, 2010 12:51 pm

Balkman32 wrote:The Biggest need is a big man who can come in and play defense, grab rebounds and score points. The perfict fit would be players like Bosh or Amare. Then the second tier of the David Lee's and Carlos Boozer, and a third tier of a Channing Frye and Amir Johnson. That areall free agents. Then there are trade option like Al Jefferson, Michael Beasley, Carl Landry, Troy Murphy.

Everyone is going to come on here and say the Thunder have Ibaka and Green. It is 100% correct that Ibaka can move into this role. But, to have Green and Ibaka come off the Bench would do wonders for this team. At the end of the game the Thunder can have Ibaka, Green, Durant, and Westbrook out on the floor with either the new PF, Harden, Seflosha, Kristic, or Maynor.

Make your predicitions on who it is going to be:

last summer okc fans didnt even think serge was gonna play on the thunder this year, but he did and he showed what he could do in limited mins. give this man a chance to get better because i could see him being the long term solution at pf for you guys.

Post #6 » by **slick_watts** » Fri May 28, 2010 1:21 pm

sonictecture wrote:Physical Measurements = Nearly Identical
Athletic Ability = Very close
Defense = Edge Green
Rebounding = Advantage Lee
Scoring = Very close
Passing = Edge Lee
Chemistry = Edge Green

David Lee is 3.5 inches longer than Jeff Green (the same difference as, say, Dejuan Blair and Tyson Chandler). Green is a better defender of course but his utility as a defender is compromised here. At PF how much better is he really than David Lee against post scorers? We double and front all the time with Green and send help, etc.

Rebounding is a ginormous advantage to Lee. Scoring isn't very close..? David Lee scored an ultra efficient 20 points per game and is a legitimate 2nd option in a good offense. Jeff Green's not terrible but he's a 3rd or 4th option at best. Lee's one of the best passing bigs in the league, chemistry I'm not sure how you could rate that but Lee is no malcontent.

Lee is significantly more productive than Jeff Green.

BIG EDDIE · Post #7 » by **BIG EDDIE** » Fri May 28, 2010 1:55 pm

Im very curious how on earth Lee is 3,5 inches taller than Green.
Theyre both listed at 6"9

Also, my problem with Lee is that we much more need a Center than a PF.
Do you really want Krstic to be our main guy on the 5 spot?
I know I dont!

Post #8 » by **slick_watts** » Fri May 28, 2010 2:00 pm

BIG EDDIE wrote:Im very curious how on earth Lee is 3,5 inches taller than Green.
Theyre both listed at 6"9

Lee is 3.5 inches longer. Jeff Green has short arms. Length is more important than height, you don't grab the ball with the top of your head.

Balkman32 · Post #9 » by **Balkman32** » Fri May 28, 2010 3:06 pm

There are no centers to get that fit better than Kristic. Centers only come around so often. Kirstic is capeable and if the Thunder add Lee there will be alot of games ending with Ibaka and Lee in the front court.

MrToad · Post #10 » by **MrToad** » Fri May 28, 2010 7:24 pm

I loved how Ibaka grew last year as a player and am looking forward to his continued progression. However, my biggest concern is his ability to stay out of foul trouble. If we decide that Ibaka is the starter, but he's only playing limited minutes due to foul trouble, then we're back to Krstic and Green in the frontcourt.
Any pairing of Lee, Krstic, and Ibaka looks pretty good to me. Heck, even Lee at C and Ibaka at PF doesn't look all that bad. Lee has proved he can play C competently if necessary and Ibaka can use his explosive athleticism at PF.

MrToad · Post #11 » by **MrToad** » Fri May 28, 2010 7:27 pm

I loved how Ibaka grew last year as a player and am looking forward to his continued progression. However, my biggest concern is his ability to stay out of foul trouble. If we decide that Ibaka is the starter, but he's only playing limited minutes due to foul trouble, then we're back to Krstic and Green in the frontcourt.
Any pairing of Lee, Krstic, and Ibaka looks pretty good to me. Heck, even Lee at C and Ibaka at PF doesn't look all that bad. Lee has proved he can play C competently if necessary and Ibaka can use his explosive athleticism at PF.

Balkman32 · Post #12 » by **Balkman32** » Fri May 28, 2010 7:45 pm

Ibaka brings energy off the Bench! Your bench players should be able to a ton of energy onto the floor! W/ Ibaka, Green (w/ chip on sholder), and Harden rolling off the Bench there is alot of energy in that Group!

Post #13 » by **sonictecture** » Sat May 29, 2010 3:53 am

slick_watts wrote:
BIG EDDIE wrote:Im very curious how on earth Lee is 3,5 inches taller than Green.
Theyre both listed at 6"9

Lee is 3.5 inches longer. Jeff Green has short arms. Length is more important than height, you don't grab the ball with the top of your head.

According to draftexpress Lee has a 3.5" advantage in standing reach, but 3" disadvantage in no step vertical and a 1.5" disadvantage in wingspan. I'm calling them nearly identical physically.

D'Antoni ran his offense through Lee. I'm willing to give Lee some credit, but the Knicks were awful, so I'm not sure how much credit he deserves for his scoring and assists. Put him on the Thunder and I think his offense and assist numbers go down. I disagree that Lee is a legitimate second option on a winning team, much less a championship team. Not even the Knicks project him in this role.

Lee is not a malcontent, I agree, but neither does he bring the intangibles that Green brings.

Post #14 » by **slick_watts** » Sat May 29, 2010 2:07 pm

I'm not sure how you can call them nearly identical physically. We see evidence of Jeff Green's physical disadvantages all over the place, in his rebounding difficulties, inability to score against players much bigger than him. I would rate standing reach more important than either no step vertical or wingspan (for big guys especially)...

The Knicks offense wasn't much worse than ours, .7 points per 100 possessions worse which is practically nothing. Of course David Lee's points would go down if he were on our team because he would no longer be the first option, but he's shown to be capable of leading an offense to productivity about the same as what we did this season. Would you question Chris Bosh's offense abilities because he is on a bad team? Bosh and Lee had nearly identical efficiency #'s as first options, Bosh was just used more.

I don't understand your point here, if David Lee were the second option offensively wouldn't he get less attention by the defense and his efficiency go up? There are 10 players in the NBA that scored at David Lee's efficiency with his Usage and it's a who's who of first option scorers (Bosh, Amar'e, LeBron, Pierce, etc.). How would his passing be affected? He wouldn't lose this ability. Sure, maybe his total points and assists go down because obvioulsy he'd be used a bit less, but his skills don't disappear.

blueandgold · Post #15 » by **blueandgold** » Sun May 30, 2010 2:54 am

Pacer fan here. W will trade Murphy. Make an offer. We need a point guard (starter quality for starter quality)

MrToad · Post #16 » by **MrToad** » Sun May 30, 2010 6:14 am

Player measurements are really only important for the draft. They help you understand a players potential. However, I think they're kind of pointless when discussing known commodities. Frankly, I could care less if Green and Lee are the same size... the point is that Lee is a far, far more effective PF in pretty much every respect. If you want to argue that Green's size should enable him to produce the same type of game as Lee, that's fine. But guess what? He doesn't.
After 3 full seasons, we know what Green is capable of. And it isn't enough for your starting PF. When they drafted Harden and resigned thabo, Presti showed that any thought of moving Durant to SG and Green to SF was dead. Time to move on.

Balkman32 · Post #17 » by **Balkman32** » Tue Jun 1, 2010 5:01 am

blueandgold wrote:Pacer fan here. W will trade Murphy. Make an offer. We need a point guard (starter quality for starter quality)

For Murphy? A pick n' Collison? There is not much the Thunder have to offer other than picks.

Balkman32 · Post #18 » by **Balkman32** » Tue Jun 1, 2010 5:04 am

I think Green and Ibaka comming off the bench next season is the way to go. The Thunder need to bring in a big who can rebound n' produce on a nightly basis

Drehova · Post #19 » by **Drehova** » Tue Jun 1, 2010 12:27 pm

Just say no to D. Lee. He's a good player that had the benefit of playing in D'Antonio's system . And he is defintely not a #2 on a championship caliber team a 3rd option at best. Anybody that think he puts up the same numbers on a better team is fooling theirselves. I do think he's rebounding will stay the same , only way his offensive numbers stay the same is if he goes to PHX.

Post #20 » by **slick_watts** » Tue Jun 1, 2010 1:37 pm

Drehova wrote:Just say no to D. Lee. He's a good player that had the benefit of playing in D'Antonio's system . And he is defintely not a #2 on a championship caliber team a 3rd option at best. Anybody that think he puts up the same numbers on a better team is fooling theirselves. I do think he's rebounding will stay the same , only way his offensive numbers stay the same is if he goes to PHX.

The Knicks were less than one possession per game faster than us this season, and David Lee has been productive offensively his entire career. D'Antoni had nothing to do with it.

Explain why you think he wouldn't be as productive on a better team? If anything, his scoring efficiency would go up on our team going from a first option in NYK to a second option here.