Is Perkins the worst offensive player in the league?

[RunOKC]

Especially his dunks where he has to cock the ball all the way below his back and back up, then he gets it stolen or fouled on what should be an easy dunk

[hardenASG13]

He's gotta be up there. you are right he can get the ball wide open and still has to bring it down below his waist to gather before he dunks. Gets it stolen all the time, then usually will commit a frustration foul on the other end shortly after and complain about it. For what he gives them (average rebounding, occasional good passing/swinging the ball, solid screens and the ability to keep big centers out of the lane), you have to think they can do better with how awful he is on offense. Its a good thing thabo and ibaka have become knockdown shooters or not even KD and westbrook could save that starting unit offense. Thankfully he doesn't play much after he starts and then commits his couple fouls. He'll be a good body to throw at howard if they play LA, will be useless against Utah Jefferson abuses him.

[bondom34]

Had to look this up, but hes 18th from last in the NBA among guys w/ at least 1000 minutes this year in offensive win shares:
http://www.basketball-reference.com/pla ... r_by_asc=Y


Helluva list to be on, topped by B Easy

[theokie]

he's up there for sure

[RyanStorm]

With two guys like Durant and Westbrook on the team, demanding 20+ points a night, there isn't much for him to do. I don't think you guys have him for his offensive skills, I am pretty sure he is only here to be a defender, like Reggie Evans for Nets.

If he is worst than Jamal Tinsley from Jazz, then I would say is useless without defense. Bleacher Report said he is one of the natiest defenders...and when you got tough defense like Ibaka and Perkins on your team they don't need offense.


Honestly I think you guys have the absolute best setup:

1-2 Big Guys as pure defenders: Re-bounders and Blockers, and make a huge presence on the floor. With Ibaka getting many offensive rebounds, he gets good points from tip ins.

2-Two pure scorers with absolute ability second to none. Westbrook and Durant are the next Duo, getting 50 points a game. Then Sefolosha as a primary 3pt shooter. His presence adds to the full package.

3-A bench that is well stocked, and fully capable of facing any other teams bench, whether Spurs, Clippers or Jazz's young guys. Martin, Jackson, Collison, Fisher and Thabeet....that sounds like a nice starting lineup for the Jazz.

[bondom34]

Just checked Utah's stats, and he's not much better defensively or offensively than Tinsley, but the issue is he plays way more minutes. He's just slow and kind of clumsy. According to hoopdata, among centers w/ at least 15 min/game and 40 games, he's 2nd to last in PER, 2nd to last in FG% of shots at the rim (dunks, layups, etc), bottom 10 from 3-9 feet and 10-15 feet (which is where most shots for him come from as a big), and below league avg. in pretty much all defensive stats for centers w/ that much time (however he is fouling more than average). The main thing though is he's just so much slower than the remainder of the lineup that it can kill a play just because unless he's literally stuck on the post, he's pretty much not doing anything.

FYI, just looking at the stats on hoopdata could bring you to either tears or laughter!

[texashoops]

The Thunder like having him for his defensive presence, but it would be nice for him to develop other parts of his game (I don't believe this will ever happen, though). His offensive ability doesn't really matter when Durant, Westbrook, and Ibaka put up strong numbers for the starting lineup alone.

[wiff]

I'm not buying the Perkins is bad offensively because Durant and Westbrook get twenty looks a night. The guy misses gimmie's on the nightly.

Which is why I think they draft Olynyk with Toronto's pick. He'd be able to give them an entirely different look up front than Perkins and Thabeet.

[Fahrenhait]

Jason Collins takes the cake sorry boys.

[stephanieg]

Perkins was much better in Bos, even had a double digit pts year, and he still took forever to wind up for the dunk. Durant and Westbrook should be spoonfeeding Perkins easy baskets like KG and Rondo did.

[JoseChinga]

OKC needs an upgrade at center. Perkins isn't that guy.

[hardenASG13]

well he cant catch a ball, has to travel to dunk, has no post moves, and sets illegal screens all the time. Cant think of anyone much worse

[bobobolas10]

Brooklyn Nets plays with 4 players when reggie evans is in the court. But I have to agree, Perkins on the offensive end is useless.

[Thunderhead]

He's not on the Thunder for offense.

Granted , with Russ out, his terrible offensive skills become more glaring. If we have Russ, we have no need for more offense.

Thunder one of the top offensive teams in NBA , in regular season.

The problem comes to replacing what he does give you, and how much you have to pay for a center with better offensive skills. Its not as easy as ya might think , when you think it out.

His ability to switch onto guards in the 1-5 pick'n'roll, is very valuable to how the Thunder play defense.

While he may appear to be overpaid at 8 mill, he's #23 among centers in salary. The NBA over pays at that position and if you replace him with offensive skills, then you gonna pay more than the Thunder have cap space for.

You can't have KD, Russ, Serge, and a center with offensive skills. Sure, it would help if Perkins could catch the ball, and if he just played within himself and not try to make a great pass that becomes a turnover. But IMO, its gonna be tough to find a better center for the Thunder, with a healthy Russ.

[sonictecture]

While I agree that Perkins fills a role that is more valuable to the team than scoring, shouldn't we expect more from Presti?

A better use of limited resources? A more versatile player? Perkins can be a pretty large liability and Presti's inability to upgrade the position or even find a suitable development player is troubling. Is the ability to lean one's body onto others so invaluable to the team concept?

[Thunderhead]

Hey, you've been around this game for a while, you know what its like to draft Robert Swifts and Mo Senes , how many GM's have totally whiffed on bigs they are going to develop. And development of bigs takes years. You know that.

Again, Thunder have very serious cap problems coming up, under a new CBA that not only will have a very punitive tax, but place other restrictions on taxpayers that make's it even more difficult to fill out role players around a core.

And your minimizing Perk's defensive skills, he brings a lot more than you state.

If you gonna rag on Presti, then name the player he needs to go after ? You're not gonna find an offensive skilled center , for what the Thunder can pay. And that's what this thread is about, that's Perks offensive skills.

Pek from Minnie is gonna get upward of 11 million this summer. Thunder can't afford Perk , right now.

Perk will most likely be moved, when he becomes an expiring contract. And the common conjecture at the present, says Presti will draft a center this year. Maybe he can find that defensive center through the draft, maybe not.

[sonictecture]

Hey, you've been around this game for a while, you know what its like to draft Robert Swifts and Mo Senes , how many GM's have totally whiffed on bigs they are going to develop. And development of bigs takes years. You know that.

I hold Presti to a higher standard and greater expectations than Rick Sund and David Pendergraft. Both Swift and Sene were drafted with very little scouting and a poorly thought out development track. If they had become rotation players it would have been pure luck. For as "lucky" as Presti has been there can be little dispute his success in finding a center has not matched his ability to identify quality at other positions.

Again, Thunder have very serious cap problems coming up, under a new CBA that not only will have a very punitive tax, but place other restrictions on taxpayers that make's it even more difficult to fill out role players around a core.

This year will mark Presti's seventh draft with the team. Presti has drafted four centers by my count and signed two additional center prospects that he liked once their rookie contracts expired. That is six prospects in six years and none of them are currently rotation players.

The expectation is that Presti will draft another center in this draft. Why? Because there are a lot of tall players in this draft? Because eventually the odds of just getting lucky will materialize?

It has only been in the last two years that Presti has had to manage the team over the salary cap. The four previous seasons Presti had cap space that was the envy of the league. He was unable to use it to find a sustainable center option.

What has Presti changed in his scouting system or developmental system that will change the outcome of drafting another center in this years draft?

And your minimizing Perk's defensive skills, he brings a lot more than you state.

I'm not. I admire Perkins for what he brings, but he plays less than 30 minutes and doesn't finish games for this team. We have waited for him to be the 10ppg 10 rpg player we thought we were getting and he simply is not capable of that type of production. Perkins is not improving, he is becoming more of a liability. Is it wrong to expect Presti to find a better solution? Why should Presti get a pass here?

If you gonna rag on Presti, then name the player he needs to go after ? You're not gonna find an offensive skilled center , for what the Thunder can pay. And that's what this thread is about, that's Perks offensive skills.

You misunderstand me. I am not trying to state that I am superior to Presti in choosing centers, I don't get paid to find a sustainable center solution, Presti does. I have watched basketball for a number of years and Presti seems like one of the hardest working, best prepared decision makers I've seen. He's innovative and forward thinking in his approach, so naturally my expectations are that he should be able to upgrade the position from where it currently stands.

Pek from Minnie is gonna get upward of 11 million this summer. Thunder can't afford Perk, right now.

I dont' believe the center on this team has to be a low post presence or be a top 3 offensive option. I do however believe that in addition to position defense that the center should be able to rebound outside of his area and score enough to be a threat. I'm only talking about a Collison level scorer here. I'm not asking for a lot, I 'm asking for more than what Perkins, Thabeet and Orton are giving.

Many fan bases hope their GM will find a player in the draft whether from skill or luck. Presti has proven skillful enough that we should expect him to upgrade the center position within the given parameters. Presti still has more resources than most and we should expect results or expect Presti to change his method to find better results.

[Thunderhead]

That was a whole lot, to avoid the reality that the Thunder do not need offense from the center position.

And I refuse to get into a message board pissing contest with anyone , who won't be honest enough to recognize what Perk does bring.

If you can't recognize what he does, I ain't wastin my time.

Done.

[sonictecture]

I do recognize what Perkins brings to the team, but he remains a liability in many game situations. This is proven by his relatively low minutes and not finishing games. Perkins does what Presti and the team wants most, which is to help control the paint, but he is not the only player in the league who performs this service and many players are better rebounders and require some amount of defensive attention.

Would you argue that Perkins provides everything the teams needs from the center position or that Thabeet and Orton fill in any holes that Perkins might have in his game?

Is Presti beyond reproach when it comes to his decision making in this context?

[Thunderhead]

Well, lets review .................

The topic of this thread is Perkins offense.

And my response to that , is the Thunder do not have Perk on the roster for offense, nor do they need offense from Perk ( considering Russ is healthy ) .

And , that upgrading the position , is more complex than it looks, when its more closely examined. When you look at centers around the league who could be available, when you look at what they bring to the Thunder in relation to the Thunder's needs at that position............ and when you look at the idea of depending upon a rookie to replace Perk ................. there's not much there.

I don't see immediate relief unless Presti can find some Euro , like an Omer Asik. Maybe an injury prone Anderson Varejao and draft a center to try gain insurance for the time he misses. Maybe a Marcin Gortat. But he's an expiring contract next season. And the Thunder can not afford a center with offensive skills, that center will be priced out of the Thunder's cap space.

Then add that Perk's trade value is at an all time low .......... and geezz.

I would like to elect a President who can bring peace to the Middle East and get our carrier fleets and troops out of the region ................... I expect a President to work to that end, but I fully realize , that's a difficult task.

Perk did nothing more last night, than what I previously noted in this thread. He can't catch a cold and he makes terrible passes trying to make a great play, probably in an attempt to make amends. Everybody see's the problems with Perk. Its obvious. I'm sure Presti does too. I'm sure the coaching staff does also.

But the solution is difficult. And we might just have to live with Perkins. Because in the larger picture, with a healthy Russ, Perk is not a major cog.