Potential upgrade for Center with NYK/OKC

[slicedbread2]

Hey guys how's it going? I came up with a fairly decent deal that may intrigue Presti and ownership.

To Oklahoma City: Tyson Chandler, Throw in Shumpert if necessary though Shump would put them over the cap and OKC would have to give up more picks.
To New York: Kendrick Perkins, Hasheem Thabeet, young prospect like PJ III, 2015 first rounder, 1-2 second rounders(may not be necessary)

Why New York: It's starting to become obvious that Carmelo will leave New York and the Knicks may be more willing to sell Chandler and getting picks and a young prospect and expirings may be the better route for them.

Why OKC: You get a proven winner and hardened veteran in Chandler who still has plenty left in the tank and is expiring at the same time as Perkins since they would seem very unlikely to amnesty him. He could be the guy who puts them over the hump like the way he did in Dallas. Plus he could be a great mentor for Adams as he gets groomed into a starting role for the future plus it would let Durant and Westbrook know that they are willing to role the dice plus picks don't mean much when your trying to win titles and OKC has a plethora of them.

PS. The luxury tax threshold is expected to go to 75.6 million beginning next year so the Thunder will have wiggle room though I'm not sure if they would go over the cap to bring back Thabo? He could receive a Tony Allen-like deal and he's underrated plus even the Spurs had to go over the cap to win the title during those years, but smart cap management helped them out a lot.

Would you do this trade?

[MvPderozan]

What about Westbrook for Chandler & Hardaway JR.
Then Flip Lamb&Perkins & a first rounder for Afflalo&nelson
Sign C.J Miles

Our lineup:

Jackson
Afflalo
Durant
Chandler
Ibaka

Bench

Nelson
Haradaway JR
Miles
PJ III
Collison/Adams

[slicedbread2]

What about Westbrook for Chandler & Hardaway JR.
Then Flip Lamb&Perkins & a first rounder for Afflalo&nelson
Sign C.J Miles

Our lineup:

Jackson
Afflalo
Durant
Chandler
Ibaka

Bench

Nelson
Haradaway JR
Miles
PJ III
Collison/Adams

I don't think the Thunder would give up Westbrook since he's a top 5 pg plus Orlando would look for more than Lamb, an expiring and a late first. That could get you AAA, but Jameer may require more picks like maybe two 1st and a 2nd or 2.

[bondom34]

I'd do the original, assuming the tax part is true for sure. mvpderozan, stop with the Westbrook stuff.

[Bravenewworld]

Interest in any NYK player = -10.

Westbrook is not moving.

Im actually not sure if the first trade is more insulting than the second.
Why would okc give up Perkins, Thabeet, PJ3, 2015 first and then possibly some seconds for freaking Chandler and Shumpert? We already have a better Shumpert, his names Thabo. And Chandler is not going to do anything on this rotation that we do not already have. Not to mention at least Perkins has been consistently health over the past 3 years. With Chandler... man... this guy gets injured just looking at a staircase.

[slicedbread2]

Interest in any NYK player = -10.

Westbrook is not moving.

Im actually not sure if the first trade is more insulting than the second.
Why would okc give up Perkins, Thabeet, PJ3, 2015 first and then possibly some seconds for freaking Chandler and Shumpert? We already have a better Shumpert, his names Thabo. And Chandler is not going to do anything on this rotation that we do not already have. Not to mention at least Perkins has been consistently health over the past 3 years. With Chandler... man... this guy gets injured just looking at a staircase.

You got a point about the injury thing although if modified you could just do Chandler for Perkins, Thabeet, a late first and maybe a guy in the d-league or 1-2 second rounders. Plus the picks are going to be late and it is not going to mean much if your pushing for titles plus he's an expiring. His health is somewhat of a concern but the Thunder coaching staff have been great at managing minutes and Chandler can really take Adams under his wing and help him out a lot. Plus you can rest Chandler against teams that the Thunder could beat with a hand tied back ie. Milwaukee, Philly, the Lakers now, so on like the way Miami is managing Wade's minutes. Keep em fresh for the playoffs plus Chandler would be a nice upgrade to Perkins plus he wouldn't be a liability on offense like the way Perkins has been, I mean even Adams in limited minutes averages just as much if not more and the per 36 is more staggering. This move would put them over the hump.

As for Sefolosha, he could command at least a Tony Allen like deal at the minimum considering that he is a defensive wizard, so would the Thunder be willing to pay his asking price knowing any moves at next year's deadline or in the off-season will put them in the tax?

http://fansided.com/2013/06/03/projecte ... ed/#!xQRcT

There's the link for next year's cap rise.

[slicedbread2]

I'd do the original, assuming the tax part is true for sure. mvpderozan, stop with the Westbrook stuff.

Yea the Westbrook one was humorous. As far as the original deal, I threw in Shumpert and OKC would send a young prospect or a late 1st and 2 second rounders in lieu of PJ III or you can even throw in a low level prospect going to New York plus Sefolosha will command a Tony Allen like deal at the minimum at least so Shump is insurance if you will in the event Thabo decides he wants more money than management will give him. There's the link below regarding the future cap.

http://fansided.com/2013/06/03/projecte ... ed/#!xQRcT

Do you think they'd go over the cap for one season if it meant getting a title? Not even the Spurs could avoid the tax, but smart cap management helps a lot and Presti could do that. Plus Chandler can at least put some form of offense and the Thunder won't be exploited on the offensive end the way they were in the 2012 finals when the Heat just left Perkins alone and hounded Durant and Westbrook. And he will expire and could more likely sign a team friendly deal.

[bondom34]

I'd do the original, assuming the tax part is true for sure. mvpderozan, stop with the Westbrook stuff.

Yea the Westbrook one was humorous. As far as the original deal, I threw in Shumpert and OKC would send a young prospect or a late 1st and 2 second rounders in lieu of PJ III or you can even throw in a low level prospect going to New York plus Sefolosha will command a Tony Allen like deal at the minimum at least so Shump is insurance if you will in the event Thabo decides he wants more money than management will give him. There's the link below regarding the future cap.

http://fansided.com/2013/06/03/projecte ... ed/#!xQRcT

Do you think they'd go over the cap for one season if it meant getting a title? Not even the Spurs could avoid the tax, but smart cap management helps a lot and Presti could do that. Plus Chandler can at least put some form of offense and the Thunder won't be exploited on the offensive end the way they were in the 2012 finals when the Heat just left Perkins alone and hounded Durant and Westbrook. And he will expire and could more likely sign a team friendly deal.

Just to this point, I have said and still believe they will next year. I think they see a window to win, and it starts then. I like Shump more than some, as I think he may need a change of scenery to improve.

[Bravenewworld]

You got a point about the injury thing although if modified you could just do Chandler for Perkins, Thabeet, a late first and maybe a guy in the d-league or 1-2 second rounders. Plus the picks are going to be late and it is not going to mean much if your pushing for titles plus he's an expiring. His health is somewhat of a concern but the Thunder coaching staff have been great at managing minutes and Chandler can really take Adams under his wing and help him out a lot. Plus you can rest Chandler against teams that the Thunder could beat with a hand tied back ie. Milwaukee, Philly, the Lakers now, so on like the way Miami is managing Wade's minutes. Keep em fresh for the playoffs plus Chandler would be a nice upgrade to Perkins plus he wouldn't be a liability on offense like the way Perkins has been, I mean even Adams in limited minutes averages just as much if not more and the per 36 is more staggering. This move would put them over the hump.

As for Sefolosha, he could command at least a Tony Allen like deal at the minimum considering that he is a defensive wizard, so would the Thunder be willing to pay his asking price knowing any moves at next year's deadline or in the off-season will put them in the tax?

http://fansided.com/2013/06/03/projecte ... ed/#!xQRcT

There's the link for next year's cap rise.

... I have a point about it all, not just the injury thing.
There is zero reason for us to do this trade.
In fact there's zero reason for us to do this trade if it was simply Perkins for Chandler.

We use Perkins as a big body to deal with low post players. Even if its not completely shutting them down, its at least doing dirty work. So OKC has shown that with Perkins (and a relatively healthy team) they have little issue dealing with Marc Gasol, Randolph, Pau, Bynum, DHoward, Duncan, Hibbert, etc.
Even if we would get a slight upgrade in offensive production (assuming he is not injured, likely hood of that happening for a full year = 5%) with Chandler (also temp. given how quickly we are developing Adam's) why would we put what we know we can do in jeopardy for him?
But even on top of this you're suggesting we add a first round pick, which in Presti's hands, late or not, equals a young talented, defensive role player... at least.
And THEN Thabeet, a guy who i personally think has value on this team. Personally i like having big man depth and am fine with a 4th stringer who can come in for 5 minutes and nab up 4 boards and a block.

As for Thabo, the room we made plus Fisher coming off the books can pay for him. However now that we have Butler, if we could convince him to sign for a vets min. for a few years, we can simply let Thabo go.
Either way there is little desire for Shumpert. IMO he has that big market overvalue and is just not that desirable to teams, at least desire is not as high as NYK fans want it to be.

BTW, OKC is already "over the hump" and if they were not, Chandler would not be the guy to do it. This is a team that has already made the finals and already owns the West... theyre fine.

[slicedbread2]

You got a point about the injury thing although if modified you could just do Chandler for Perkins, Thabeet, a late first and maybe a guy in the d-league or 1-2 second rounders. Plus the picks are going to be late and it is not going to mean much if your pushing for titles plus he's an expiring. His health is somewhat of a concern but the Thunder coaching staff have been great at managing minutes and Chandler can really take Adams under his wing and help him out a lot. Plus you can rest Chandler against teams that the Thunder could beat with a hand tied back ie. Milwaukee, Philly, the Lakers now, so on like the way Miami is managing Wade's minutes. Keep em fresh for the playoffs plus Chandler would be a nice upgrade to Perkins plus he wouldn't be a liability on offense like the way Perkins has been, I mean even Adams in limited minutes averages just as much if not more and the per 36 is more staggering. This move would put them over the hump.

As for Sefolosha, he could command at least a Tony Allen like deal at the minimum considering that he is a defensive wizard, so would the Thunder be willing to pay his asking price knowing any moves at next year's deadline or in the off-season will put them in the tax?

http://fansided.com/2013/06/03/projecte ... ed/#!xQRcT

There's the link for next year's cap rise.

... I have a point about it all, not just the injury thing.
There is zero reason for us to do this trade.
In fact there's zero reason for us to do this trade if it was simply Perkins for Chandler.

We use Perkins as a big body to deal with low post players. Even if its not completely shutting them down, its at least doing dirty work. So OKC has shown that with Perkins (and a relatively healthy team) they have little issue dealing with Marc Gasol, Randolph, Pau, Bynum, DHoward, Duncan, Hibbert, etc.
Even if we would get a slight upgrade in offensive production (assuming he is not injured, likely hood of that happening for a full year = 5%) with Chandler (also temp. given how quickly we are developing Adam's) why would we put what we know we can do in jeopardy for him?
But even on top of this you're suggesting we add a first round pick, which in Presti's hands, late or not, equals a young talented, defensive role player... at least.
And THEN Thabeet, a guy who i personally think has value on this team. Personally i like having big man depth and am fine with a 4th stringer who can come in for 5 minutes and nab up 4 boards and a block.

As for Thabo, the room we made plus Fisher coming off the books can pay for him. However now that we have Butler, if we could convince him to sign for a vets min. for a few years, we can simply let Thabo go.
Either way there is little desire for Shumpert. IMO he has that big market overvalue and is just not that desirable to teams, at least desire is not as high as NYK fans want it to be.

BTW, OKC is already "over the hump" and if they were not, Chandler would not be the guy to do it. This is a team that has already made the finals and already owns the West... theyre fine.

I think it's great that they signed Butler tbh. I just put this deal as an off-season move in case they don't win the title this year, which they should but if they don't then they should roll the dice if Presti wants to. As for Thabeet, the guy is a third stringer who will be remembered as one of the biggest draft busts in recent memory but to each their own. As far as Butler, if he plays well and wants to stay, offer him the minimum with incentives and Thabo is pretty key to the starting rotation since his defense allows breathing room for Durant and Westbrook to save their energy to attack, so it may not be wise to let him go unless Roberson develops pretty fast and makes him expendable.

[Bravenewworld]

You got a point about the injury thing although if modified you could just do Chandler for Perkins, Thabeet, a late first and maybe a guy in the d-league or 1-2 second rounders. Plus the picks are going to be late and it is not going to mean much if your pushing for titles plus he's an expiring. His health is somewhat of a concern but the Thunder coaching staff have been great at managing minutes and Chandler can really take Adams under his wing and help him out a lot. Plus you can rest Chandler against teams that the Thunder could beat with a hand tied back ie. Milwaukee, Philly, the Lakers now, so on like the way Miami is managing Wade's minutes. Keep em fresh for the playoffs plus Chandler would be a nice upgrade to Perkins plus he wouldn't be a liability on offense like the way Perkins has been, I mean even Adams in limited minutes averages just as much if not more and the per 36 is more staggering. This move would put them over the hump.

As for Sefolosha, he could command at least a Tony Allen like deal at the minimum considering that he is a defensive wizard, so would the Thunder be willing to pay his asking price knowing any moves at next year's deadline or in the off-season will put them in the tax?

http://fansided.com/2013/06/03/projecte ... ed/#!xQRcT

There's the link for next year's cap rise.

... I have a point about it all, not just the injury thing.
There is zero reason for us to do this trade.
In fact there's zero reason for us to do this trade if it was simply Perkins for Chandler.

We use Perkins as a big body to deal with low post players. Even if its not completely shutting them down, its at least doing dirty work. So OKC has shown that with Perkins (and a relatively healthy team) they have little issue dealing with Marc Gasol, Randolph, Pau, Bynum, DHoward, Duncan, Hibbert, etc.
Even if we would get a slight upgrade in offensive production (assuming he is not injured, likely hood of that happening for a full year = 5%) with Chandler (also temp. given how quickly we are developing Adam's) why would we put what we know we can do in jeopardy for him?
But even on top of this you're suggesting we add a first round pick, which in Presti's hands, late or not, equals a young talented, defensive role player... at least.
And THEN Thabeet, a guy who i personally think has value on this team. Personally i like having big man depth and am fine with a 4th stringer who can come in for 5 minutes and nab up 4 boards and a block.

As for Thabo, the room we made plus Fisher coming off the books can pay for him. However now that we have Butler, if we could convince him to sign for a vets min. for a few years, we can simply let Thabo go.
Either way there is little desire for Shumpert. IMO he has that big market overvalue and is just not that desirable to teams, at least desire is not as high as NYK fans want it to be.

BTW, OKC is already "over the hump" and if they were not, Chandler would not be the guy to do it. This is a team that has already made the finals and already owns the West... theyre fine.

I think it's great that they signed Butler tbh. I just put this deal as an off-season move in case they don't win the title this year, which they should but if they don't then they should roll the dice if Presti wants to. As for Thabeet, the guy is a third stringer who will be remembered as one of the biggest draft busts in recent memory but to each their own. As far as Butler, if he plays well and wants to stay, offer him the minimum with incentives and Thabo is pretty key to the starting rotation since his defense allows breathing room for Durant and Westbrook to save their energy to attack, so it may not be wise to let him go unless Roberson develops pretty fast and makes him expendable.

1. 4th string center.
2. Thabeet being a "bust" as a 2nd overall pick has nothing to do with his ability to be a 4th string center.
3. If they keep Butler and let Thabo go, Butler will still be a back up 2/3 and it would probably be better that he picks up the extra minutes. Lamb alone gives KD/Westbrook offensive breathing room, add Butler to that and they are 5 deep at the 1-2-3, all with offensive and all defensive minded.
4. If there is any position they will need to worry about anytime soon it would be the point. Especially since it looks like Westbrook will be playing the 2 more often.

[slicedbread2]

... I have a point about it all, not just the injury thing.
There is zero reason for us to do this trade.
In fact there's zero reason for us to do this trade if it was simply Perkins for Chandler.

We use Perkins as a big body to deal with low post players. Even if its not completely shutting them down, its at least doing dirty work. So OKC has shown that with Perkins (and a relatively healthy team) they have little issue dealing with Marc Gasol, Randolph, Pau, Bynum, DHoward, Duncan, Hibbert, etc.
Even if we would get a slight upgrade in offensive production (assuming he is not injured, likely hood of that happening for a full year = 5%) with Chandler (also temp. given how quickly we are developing Adam's) why would we put what we know we can do in jeopardy for him?
But even on top of this you're suggesting we add a first round pick, which in Presti's hands, late or not, equals a young talented, defensive role player... at least.
And THEN Thabeet, a guy who i personally think has value on this team. Personally i like having big man depth and am fine with a 4th stringer who can come in for 5 minutes and nab up 4 boards and a block.

As for Thabo, the room we made plus Fisher coming off the books can pay for him. However now that we have Butler, if we could convince him to sign for a vets min. for a few years, we can simply let Thabo go.
Either way there is little desire for Shumpert. IMO he has that big market overvalue and is just not that desirable to teams, at least desire is not as high as NYK fans want it to be.

BTW, OKC is already "over the hump" and if they were not, Chandler would not be the guy to do it. This is a team that has already made the finals and already owns the West... theyre fine.

I think it's great that they signed Butler tbh. I just put this deal as an off-season move in case they don't win the title this year, which they should but if they don't then they should roll the dice if Presti wants to. As for Thabeet, the guy is a third stringer who will be remembered as one of the biggest draft busts in recent memory but to each their own. As far as Butler, if he plays well and wants to stay, offer him the minimum with incentives and Thabo is pretty key to the starting rotation since his defense allows breathing room for Durant and Westbrook to save their energy to attack, so it may not be wise to let him go unless Roberson develops pretty fast and makes him expendable.

1. 4th string center.
2. Thabeet being a "bust" as a 2nd overall pick has nothing to do with his ability to be a 4th string center.
3. If they keep Butler and let Thabo go, Butler will still be a back up 2/3 and it would probably be better that he picks up the extra minutes. Lamb alone gives KD/Westbrook offensive breathing room, add Butler to that and they are 5 deep at the 1-2-3, all with offensive and all defensive minded.
4. If there is any position they will need to worry about anytime soon it would be the point. Especially since it looks like Westbrook will be playing the 2 more often.

Those are some good points I'll agree with. I'd keep Perkins unless Adams develops faster and do you think that Afflalo would be a good fit since he has been linked in many trade talks? He could easily replace Thabo in the starting lineup plus his deal expires at the same time as Durant except his last year is not guaranteed. He'd be a great fit I think though the asking price could be something like this:

#1. Orlando receives: Perkins, Lamb, 2015 first rounder(OKC/DAL assuming the Mavs pick isn't converted) 2 second rounders
Oklahoma City receives: Aaron Afflalo

or

#2. Orlando receives: Reggie Jackson, Jeremy Lamb, Kendrick Perkins, 2015 first rounder, maybe 2 second rounders here since Afflalo is pretty good and the 2 spot is sorely lacking in quality right now outside of Stephenson, Hayward, dare I say Wade, Harden, Thompson, Beal, DeRozan and so forth. May not be necessary though.
Oklahoma City receives: Jameer Nelson, Aaron Afflalo, Maybe throw in Maxiell since he is an expiring and his neal is not guaranteed any money plus he'd be fine as a backup big man for Adams if this deal goes through plus you can waive him if he fails and his deal won't count against the cap if waived.

Why Orlando: The Magic are going for a youth movement to get younger and taking an expiring in Perkins to match the salaries plus getting potentially 2 pieces to the puzzle in Lamb and Jackson would be nice value for their departing players along with an extra first rounder.

Why Oklahoma City: The Thunder are looking to upgrade the 2 spot for someone to replace Thabo since his defense has not been up to par this year and he may command more money than the Thunder are willing to pay. Enter Afflalo who has a great work ethic that is a coach's dream and he is an upgrade and won't be a liability in the half-court and can spread the floor around and as much as I like Lamb's potential any possible deal has to have Lamb. For Jackson, he's been a great second unit point guard though the Thunder could enter a dilemma here since his deal is up for renewal after next year and I doubt the Thunder want to endure what the Clippers did with CP3 and Eric Bledsoe. Jameer is an expiring and he's a vet who can play spot-starter and he'd be more willing to take a Andre Miller type of deal and sign a 3 year deal for 4-5 maybe 6 at the most whereas Jackson could command a lot more and he may play himself out of OKC's price range. As for Maxiell, he's an expiring that can play backup minutes and if he doesn't produce, you can flip him or just waive him.

Potential Lineup:

Westbrook/Nelson/Fisher(rumours are that he may retire after this year)
Afflalo/Roberson/draft pick
Durant/PJ III/draft pick/vet
Ibaka/Collison/draft pick
Adams/Maxiell/Thabeet

What do you think? Edit: My bad Maxiell's contract would not be guaranteed if he's waived before July 10, 2014 otherwise he's only 2.5M but he'd be movable if he doesn't work out.

[Bravenewworld]

Those are some good points I'll agree with. I'd keep Perkins unless Adams develops faster and do you think that Afflalo would be a good fit since he has been linked in many trade talks? He could easily replace Thabo in the starting lineup plus his deal expires at the same time as Durant except his last year is not guaranteed. He'd be a great fit I think though the asking price could be something like this:

#1. Orlando receives: Perkins, Lamb, 2015 first rounder(OKC/DAL assuming the Mavs pick isn't converted) 2 second rounders
Oklahoma City receives: Aaron Afflalo

or

#2. Orlando receives: Reggie Jackson, Jeremy Lamb, Kendrick Perkins, 2015 first rounder, maybe 2 second rounders here since Afflalo is pretty good and the 2 spot is sorely lacking in quality right now outside of Stephenson, Hayward, dare I say Wade, Harden, Thompson, Beal, DeRozan and so forth. May not be necessary though.
Oklahoma City receives: Jameer Nelson, Aaron Afflalo, Maybe throw in Maxiell since he is an expiring and his neal is not guaranteed any money plus he'd be fine as a backup big man for Adams if this deal goes through plus you can waive him if he fails and his deal won't count against the cap if waived.


What do you think? Edit: My bad Maxiell's contract would not be guaranteed if he's waived before July 10, 2014 otherwise he's only 2.5M but he'd be movable if he doesn't work out

One of the biggest reasons OKC would have gone after Affalo is land a guy who can give offense and defense for a couple years while Lamb develops and they would not have to worry about resigning Thabo. And if a trade was going to happen for Affalo, it probably would have had to happen this season when the 2014 picks were valued so high. Otherwise they would have to give up Lamb and that is off the table. Lamb is developing much faster then anyone thought he would and at this point an Affalo/Lamb swap would be more realistic then anything else, but even then given the age difference i feel as if OKC would be better off simply sticking with Lamb. I mean, its not like AA has tons of play off experience and its not like he would be getting his averages with OKC that he is getting with ORL, chances are he would be getting what Lamb is getting. And again, when all is said and done if OKC has to include Perkins or Lamb or Jackson in a deal for AA, they are simply better off not doing the trade. The value of the trade for OKC would have been giving up a 2014, possibly a 2014 w/Mavs and the ability to use exceptions to completely wipe AA's contract off the Magics roster.

In your second trade i feel OKC closes the window a bit too much and not even for a real good reason. IMO i would only buy into Nelson being a back up if he had the Felton contract. Otherwise with his contract and abilities when healthy, he is not going to be getting enough minutes on this team to warrant being on it. Simply better off keeping Jackson.