Mitch or Steven

[Old Man Game]

Got into an argument the other day with a guy for saying Mitch is a more skilled player at the moment than Adams (even if Adams has a higher upside long term, being younger). His point was that Adams has had double doubles in actual nba games. My rejoinder was that when they went against the same competition in Orlando Mitch clearly appeared more skilled, handling the ball, distributing, hitting from midrange (whether he can translate that skill to real games is sort of a separate question to my mind).

What do you say? I know it's hard to judge since we haven't seen Mitch against rotation players yet, but right now, who ya got, Mitch or Steven?

[BrianDavis]

McGary probably is a better dribbler, passer and perimeter shooter. But accounting for NBA awareness, athleticism, rebounding and defense, theres nothing to suggest that Adam's isnt a better player right now.

Adams has a good chance at being the starting center. McGary might not be a rotational player this year. I don't think theres much of a debate here.

[Kizz Fastfists]

It depends on what you are defining as skilled. Does McGary look better in ball drills? Yes. Can McGary do things with the ball in hands that Adams will probably never do? Yes. Can McGary block shots and bang in the paint with legitimate NBA centers? No. They are two entirely different players. McGary is a more offensive minded player and Adams is a defensive force. They will complement each other well in the future when they are playing together.

The better comparison for McGary is Collison. McGary is more skilled then Collison and should become a similar defensive player. Adams is the better NBA player of those three at this point. McGary could end up being a better player, but I don't expect it to happen. McGary will have some flashy offensive highlights with his ball handling, for a big man, where most of Adams' highlights will be defensive with the occasional jam over/through someone.

[bondom34]

Exactly what Kizz said. If you're talking offensive smoothness and skillset, McGary, but defense is Adams. I do think Adams can close the gap on offense more than McGary on defense though, mainly b/c he's younger and hasn't been playing basketball most of his life. I'm a huge Adams fan, but McGary has me a bit excited for the future frontcourt as well.

[Old Man Game]

I guess if we were equating them to football players I'd think of McGary more like a tight end and Adams more like a run stuffing nose tackle.

[Old Man Game]

Adams has a good chance at being the starting center. McGary might not be a rotational player this year. I don't think theres much of a debate here.

Considering who each would have to beat out for minutes I don't think that qualifies among fair criteria to judge them. Lot easier to earn minutes over a guy with one of the worst offensive ratings in the league than over a guy who just missed an all star team and another guy who is a very respected vet and year in year out a steady contributor from the bench.

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[Space Dracula]

Adams looks the part of a defensive force but I would not label him that yet. Very little to no statistical evidence that he is even an average defensive center yet.

Adams is definitely not a better player than Nick Collison. Even with some decline this year, Nick is still in the Top 20 of most APM metrics, an efficient offensive player, and capable defensive player. He struggled a lot in the playoffs as the lone big; probably should avoid those lineups in the future.

[Space Dracula]

As for the OP, I'd agree tentatively that McGary is more skilled than Adams. Adams lacks any sort of ball handling skill, and McGary is probably blessed with higher offensive and defensive awareness thanks to having played the game longer. Adams is an athletic outlier, which has been the impetus for most of his NBA productivity so far (hence the high ORB%, low-ish DRB%).

I think McGary will play most of the year in Tulsa. I wouldn't be shocked if he beat out Adams for starters minutes in 2015-16, though. Interesting blend of skills.

[BrianDavis]

Adams has a good chance at being the starting center. McGary might not be a rotational player this year. I don't think theres much of a debate here.

Considering who each would have to beat out for minutes I don't think that qualifies among fair criteria to judge them. Lot easier to earn minutes over a guy with one of the worst offensive ratings in the league than over a guy who just missed an all star team and another guy who is a very respected vet and year in year out a steady contributor from the bench.

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I get your point, buts its not just Perkins that Adams competes for minutes with. Adams had to battle and eventually beat out Nick Collison last postseason to earn the right as the first big off the bench. The same primary guy McGary will have to beat out if he wants to get regular minutes as well. McGary will also compete against Perkins potentially for back up minutes as well. Frontcourt lineups consisting of McGary/Collison, McGary/Adams, McGary/Ibaka, or McGary/Perkins are all foreseeable if he's good enough this year. I'm obviously not suggesting that McGary will supplant Ibaka in the starting lineup, and thats not who Adams took minutes from either.

[Old Man Game]

Adams has a good chance at being the starting center. McGary might not be a rotational player this year. I don't think theres much of a debate here.

Considering who each would have to beat out for minutes I don't think that qualifies among fair criteria to judge them. Lot easier to earn minutes over a guy with one of the worst offensive ratings in the league than over a guy who just missed an all star team and another guy who is a very respected vet and year in year out a steady contributor from the bench.

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I get your point, buts its not just Perkins that Adams competes for minutes with. Adams had to battle and eventually beat out Nick Collison last postseason to earn the right as the first big off the bench. The same primary guy McGary will have to beat out if he wants to get regular minutes as well. McGary will also compete against Perkins potentially for back up minutes as well. Frontcourt lineups consisting of McGary/Collison, McGary/Adams, McGary/Ibaka, or McGary/Perkins are all foreseeable if he's good enough this year. I'm obviously not suggesting that McGary will supplant Ibaka in the starting lineup, and thats not who Adams took minutes from either.

1) Adams wasn't always the first big off the bench. That varied from game to game and depending in part on the degree of ineptitude Perkins was displaying on any given night, and 2) To the extent he was the 1st guy to check in to replace Perkins he did so often in situations when it didn't make sense to go small or go with 4/5 guy like Nick at Center. Games against the Rockets come to mind.

[BrianDavis]

Considering who each would have to beat out for minutes I don't think that qualifies among fair criteria to judge them. Lot easier to earn minutes over a guy with one of the worst offensive ratings in the league than over a guy who just missed an all star team and another guy who is a very respected vet and year in year out a steady contributor from the bench.

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I get your point, buts its not just Perkins that Adams competes for minutes with. Adams had to battle and eventually beat out Nick Collison last postseason to earn the right as the first big off the bench. The same primary guy McGary will have to beat out if he wants to get regular minutes as well. McGary will also compete against Perkins potentially for back up minutes as well. Frontcourt lineups consisting of McGary/Collison, McGary/Adams, McGary/Ibaka, or McGary/Perkins are all foreseeable if he's good enough this year. I'm obviously not suggesting that McGary will supplant Ibaka in the starting lineup, and thats not who Adams took minutes from either.

1) Adams wasn't always the first big off the bench. That varied from game to game and depending in part on the degree of ineptitude Perkins was displaying on any given night, and 2) To the extent he was the 1st guy to check in to replace Perkins he did so often in situations when it didn't make sense to go small or go with 4/5 guy like Nick at Center. Games against the Rockets come to mind.

At the end of the season, which was what I said, Adams was the first guy off the bench and he beat out Nick Collison for that spot. It didnt matter who we played or the type of bigs (each team pretty unique).
Memphis (last 2 game of series) - Gasol/Randolph - Adams 22.5 minutes per game, Collison 7 minutes and 1 DNP
Clippers - Griffin/Jordan/Davis - Adams 21.5 minutes per game, Collison 9 minutes per game
Spurs - Duncan/Splitter/Diaw - Adams 22.7 minutes per game, Collison 9.8 minutes per game and DNP.

I don't get how you can say Adams didnt beat out Nick Collison the postseason?
Collison - 16.7 minutes in the regular season down to 10.8 in the postseason, and around 9 over the final 14 games.
Adams - 14.8 minutes in the regular season up to 18.4 in the postseason, and around 22 over the final 14 games.
Perkins - 19.5 minutes in the regular season up to 20.2 in the postseason, and around 19 over the final 14 games.

Its pretty clear who Adams was taking minutes away from.

[Old Man Game]

I get your point, buts its not just Perkins that Adams competes for minutes with. Adams had to battle and eventually beat out Nick Collison last postseason to earn the right as the first big off the bench. The same primary guy McGary will have to beat out if he wants to get regular minutes as well. McGary will also compete against Perkins potentially for back up minutes as well. Frontcourt lineups consisting of McGary/Collison, McGary/Adams, McGary/Ibaka, or McGary/Perkins are all foreseeable if he's good enough this year. I'm obviously not suggesting that McGary will supplant Ibaka in the starting lineup, and thats not who Adams took minutes from either.

1) Adams wasn't always the first big off the bench. That varied from game to game and depending in part on the degree of ineptitude Perkins was displaying on any given night, and 2) To the extent he was the 1st guy to check in to replace Perkins he did so often in situations when it didn't make sense to go small or go with 4/5 guy like Nick at Center. Games against the Rockets come to mind.

At the end of the season, which was what I said, Adams was the first guy off the bench and he beat out Nick Collison for that spot. It didnt matter who we played or the type of bigs (each team pretty unique).
Memphis (last 2 game of series) - Gasol/Randolph - Adams 22.5 minutes per game, Collison 7 minutes and 1 DNP
Clippers - Griffin/Jordan/Davis - Adams 21.5 minutes per game, Collison 9 minutes per game
Spurs - Duncan/Splitter/Diaw - Adams 22.7 minutes per game, Collison 9.8 minutes per game and DNP.

I don't get how you can say Adams didnt beat out Nick Collison the postseason?
Collison - 16.7 minutes in the regular season down to 10.8 in the postseason, and around 9 over the final 14 games.
Adams - 14.8 minutes in the regular season up to 18.4 in the postseason, and around 22 over the final 14 games.
Perkins - 19.5 minutes in the regular season up to 20.2 in the postseason, and around 19 over the final 14 games.

Its pretty clear who Adams was taking minutes away from.

I missed that you specifically mentioned the playoffs. I was talking about across the balance of the season in my response.

We'll see what happens when the season starts as to whether that trend continues or whether it was matchup dependent based on those specific opponents. For the record I don't think Adams will start anyway but we know that if he does it will be over Perkins. Not Serge and not Nick, who Mitch as a power forward would have to beat out. So once again, I wouldn't place any emphasis on that criteria in determining who is more skilled. Hell, Nick is obviously more skilled than Perkins and he doesn't start either. There are other factors at play in starting.

[Space Dracula]

Nick Collison was hurt in the playoffs and towards the end of the year, requiring arthroscopic surgery in the offseason. Had he been at 100% or close to it, Adams would not have usurped him in the rotation. Collison was way more productive than Adams through most of the season.

[bondom34]

Just read this and didn't know where to put it:
Mitch McGary
McGary was hurt early in the season before Michigan played their tougher competition, so he was somebody who I didn’t scout as much as I would have hoped. Now that I actually was able to watch him in summer league, he looks awesome. He is a center with poor height (6’10.5″) and length (7’0″) for the position, but he atones with strength, quickness, and athleticism. The athleticism is what surprised me, I was expecting a below the rim player but he showed a bit of explosiveness. This contributed to his 7 blocks in 4 games averaged 26 minutes. He’s not exactly an above the rim athlete, but he can get up enough to sometimes make athletic plays at the rim.

The other quality that I wasn’t expecting is that McGary has a fantastic handle for a big man. He looks completely comfortably pulling down a defensive rebound and then taking it all the way to the rim on the other end in transition. He is also impressed with his handling ability as he overdribbled a bit at times, but he didn’t get himself into too much trouble and finished with a solid 5 assists vs 8 turnovers while scoring with good volume and efficiency.

He is a health risk as he has back problems and ankle problems on his record, but he looked 100% healthy in Orlando. If he can stay that way, he should combine with Steven Adams to form a significant upgrade over Kendrick Perkins. He looks like great value at 21st overall. I am not sure precisely how much to weigh injuries, but if I could re-rank but I would place McGary in the back end of the lottery.
http://deanondraft.com/2014/07/17/summe ... s-orlando/

[spearsy23]

Just read this and didn't know where to put it:
Mitch McGary
McGary was hurt early in the season before Michigan played their tougher competition, so he was somebody who I didn’t scout as much as I would have hoped. Now that I actually was able to watch him in summer league, he looks awesome. He is a center with poor height (6’10.5″) and length (7’0″) for the position, but he atones with strength, quickness, and athleticism. The athleticism is what surprised me, I was expecting a below the rim player but he showed a bit of explosiveness. This contributed to his 7 blocks in 4 games averaged 26 minutes. He’s not exactly an above the rim athlete, but he can get up enough to sometimes make athletic plays at the rim.

The other quality that I wasn’t expecting is that McGary has a fantastic handle for a big man. He looks completely comfortably pulling down a defensive rebound and then taking it all the way to the rim on the other end in transition. He is also impressed with his handling ability as he overdribbled a bit at times, but he didn’t get himself into too much trouble and finished with a solid 5 assists vs 8 turnovers while scoring with good volume and efficiency.

He is a health risk as he has back problems and ankle problems on his record, but he looked 100% healthy in Orlando. If he can stay that way, he should combine with Steven Adams to form a significant upgrade over Kendrick Perkins. He looks like great value at 21st overall. I am not sure precisely how much to weigh injuries, but if I could re-rank but I would place McGary in the back end of the lottery.
http://deanondraft.com/2014/07/17/summe ... s-orlando/

I read through his Jabari Parker 'analysis' and came to the conclusion that he is simply a fan trying to hit it big enough to matter. He called Antoine walker a willing passer.

[Old Man Game]

I read through his Jabari Parker 'analysis' and came to the conclusion that he is simply a fan trying to hit it big enough to matter. He called Antoine walker a willing passer.

He does appear to be an amateur based on how relatively infrequently he makes new posts but he's had some interesting analysis. Not sure where he'd get that about Walker though. That's clearly indefensible. Walker was the definition of a volume scorer.

[bondom34]

I read through his Jabari Parker 'analysis' and came to the conclusion that he is simply a fan trying to hit it big enough to matter. He called Antoine walker a willing passer.

He does appear to be an amateur based on how relatively infrequently he makes new posts but he's had some interesting analysis. Not sure where he'd get that about Walker though. That's clearly indefensible. Walker was the definition of a volume scorer.

Yeah, it is an odd comment, I just scrolled straight to McGary and didn't read the other spots. He's generally considered a decent analyst, a lot of the guys on the draft board seem to like him.

[spearsy23]

He may be an okay analyst, I only actually read the two articles, but he clearly hates Parker with all the burning vitriol of a jealous ex-lover. To be fair to him, he admits he is a duke fan and hates everything Parker stands for, but the article is definitely a shot at Skip Baylessing a guy and hoping this is the time that blind squirrel finds a nut.

[bbms]

Does Adams have better defensive awareness than McGary? I doubt that. I really doubt Adams would have a better defensive impact if he had the same body type. McGary's steal numbers are something to look forward. Both are very active on defense and have the lateral quickness, but McGary is able to turn that into disruptive plays, while Adams is more of a vertical force.

What I question most is how McGary's offensive rebounding will translate to the NBA. Adams is a stud offensive rebounder and that can generate offense on it's own. I don't see a lot of players like McGary (6'10-7'0") succeeding in the NBA boards.

I don't like McGary's vertical game like I do like Adams' horizontal defensive game, though.

If McGary can translate his rebounding to the NBA, I'm leaning towards McGary here, though, I think Adams has a better potential.

[Old Man Game]

Does Adams have better defensive awareness than McGary? I doubt that. I really doubt Adams would have a better defensive impact if he had the same body type. McGary's steal numbers are something to look forward. Both are very active on defense and have the lateral quickness, but McGary is able to turn that into disruptive plays, while Adams is more of a vertical force.

What I question most is how McGary's offensive rebounding will translate to the NBA. Adams is a stud offensive rebounder and that can generate offense on it's own. I don't see a lot of players like McGary (6'10-7'0") succeeding in the NBA boards.

I don't like McGary's vertical game like I do like Adams' horizontal defensive game, though.

If McGary can translate his rebounding to the NBA, I'm leaning towards McGary here, though, I think Adams has a better potential.

What's Udonis Haslem's standing reach? He's had a long career. Something similar on the boards would be adequate.

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