Dion Waiters - Welcome To The Oklahoma City Thunder (FAQ)

[Bravenewworld]

Who is Waiters?
For those who do not keep up with other players or teams, lets take a quick look at some Waiters information.
All provided information in this first post will be copy and pastes from wiki and a couple other sources (will note when, other) and some highlight video's, so we can get a sense of the type of style he plays and potential ceiling. Later on tonight (possibly tomorrow) i will be writing a short scouting report on him, but i need to spend some time watching him for extended periods of time on the floor.

College career

Freshman season
In his freshman season at Syracuse, Waiters averaged 6.6 points, 1.5 assists and 1.6 rebounds per game.[4] In a second round loss to Marquette in the NCAA Tournament, Waiters shot 8-for-10 with 18 points.

Sophomore season
In his sophomore season at Syracuse, Waiters averaged 12.6 points, 2.5 assists and 2.3 rebounds per game.[4] He was named the Big East Sixth Man of the Year, earned third team All-Big East honors, was named AP Honorable Mention All-American, and was selected to the All Big East Tournament team.

Code: Select all

[b]College statistics[/b]
Year   Team   GP   GS   MPG   FG%   3P%   FT%   RPG   APG   SPG   BPG   PPG
2010–11   Syracuse Orange   34   0   16.3   .411   .329   .813   1.6   1.5   1.1   .1   6.6
2011–12   Syracuse Orange   37   1   24.1   .476   .363   .729   2.3   2.5   1.8   .3   12.6

Professional career

Waiters was selected fourth overall in the 2012 NBA draft by the Cleveland Cavaliers despite choosing not to work out for any teams prior to the draft. This was a choice he made after receiving a promise from a team in the middle of the lottery that they would draft him if available. Many scouts also found it a surprise that Waiters was drafted so high because he did not start in college and played zone defense at Syracuse.

On January 14, 2013, Waiters scored a career high 33 points on the road against the Sacramento Kings, doing so on 12/18 shooting. He also notched two rebounds and five assists.

Waiters was selected to play in the NBA Rising Stars game during 2013 All-Star weekend, along with teammates Kyrie Irving, Tristan Thompson, and Tyler Zeller. Waiters came off of the bench to score 23 points for Shaquille O'Neal's team.

Over the course of his rookie season, Waiters both started and came off the bench for the Cavaliers. He was consistently bothered by a sprained ankle and loose cartilage in his knee, forcing him to miss over twenty games over the course of the year.

After his rookie season, Waiters was graded as the fourth best overall rookie by NBA.com, and placed fifth in NBA Rookie of the Year voting with 21 points.

On February 14, 2014, Waiters participated in the BBVA Rising Stars challenge. He finished the game with 31 points and 7 assists. Waiters was a candidate for game MVP but lost to Andre Drummond.

On March 18, 2014, Waiters recorded his first career double double with 17 points and a career high 11 assists in a 96-100 loss to the Miami Heat

Code: Select all

[b]Year   Team   GP   GS   MPG   FG%   3P%   FT%   RPG   APG   SPG   BPG   PPG[/b]
2012–13   Cleveland   61   48   28.8   .412   .310   .746   2.4   3.0   1.0   .3   14.7
2013–14   Cleveland   70   24   29.6   .433   .368   .685   2.8   3.0   .9   .2   15.9
Career      131   72   29.2   .424   .342   .714   2.6   3.0   .9   .3   15.3

Awards
Jordan Brand All-American (2010)
All-Big East Sixth Man of the Year (2012)
All-Big East third team (2012)
All-Big East Tournament team (2012)
Eastern Conference's Rookie of the Month (February 2013)
NBA All-Rookie First Team (2013)
2x BBVA Rising Star (2013, 2014)

[youtube]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZP55PkyXpdA[/youtube]

[youtube]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=X4t0wR-2xks[/youtube]

[youtube]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rHqEGbJx4YY[/youtube]

[youtube]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4KJEnRvrTXI[/youtube]

[youtube]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=To0JIyG9UC0[/youtube]

[bondom34]

Well, frankly I was panicked when I thiught RJ was traded for him, but for a likely late first, good deal by me.

[KD35Brah]

Knowing Brooks he won't reign in Waiter's chucking behavior, so it's a dumb trade.

Hopefully Abrines and Pleiss come over this summer. Maybe we can get George Karl or Mike Malone when Brooks' contract is done.

[Bravenewworld]

Much like we see players drafted to the wrong team (check Kings recent history for a quick overview and understanding), players can also be drafted or traded to the perfect team.
IMO, this is the perfect team for Waiters with his skill set.

[DontH8TheBrody]

I would agree because we have an Iso heavy offense and that is what Waiters is all about.

[spearsy23]

I'm not a Waiters fan, but at this price it's a fantastic trade.

[Bravenewworld]

okay, so ive spent about two hours combing through videos of Dion Waiters and reading other scouting reports.So ill give a quick +/- scouting report on him. Since i was not able to see certain things in the video's, things ive already noticed or thought basic generalized stats, i will note with a (*) when i mention a positive or negative that was simply a common theme in other reports.

Im also not a fan of throwing out any kind of advanced statistics without a proper context and full examination about what is being said.. So..... here's some proper context = http://www.82games.com/1314/13CLE3.HTM

Pro's

+ For his age he has great individual ball handling skills.

+ Has the ability to create his own shot, play off the ball and spot up. All three he has definitely improved at. You see a very clear difference in all three of these abilities from his rookie year to now.

+ Can effectively get to the rim through traffic and score.

+ Big body build and very strong for his size.

+ Very good foot work that mixes very well with his handling skills.

+ Consistent... yes, sadly that has to be put in the positive section for OKC and the discussion of SGs. Realistically we should not even have to mention it.

+ Defensively sound. Quick hands, good anticipation and often can stay in front of his man. *

+ Until this season we have seen regular statistical improvements.

+ While not a great team play-maker or assist driven play, he is still very good with his assist to TO ratio. Even with assist to TO to point ratio. *

+ He definitely seems to have the skill set and talent needed to be a star in the NBA.

+ Takes losses personally and from one of the reports i read it suggested he has been caught doing the "Kobe loss" thing. Where he will stay in the gym overnight playing H.O.R.S.E with himself.



Con's

- Tends to take bad shots at times. Obviously this is more likely due to age then anything else.

- He is not overweight and is in amazing muscular shape, but it would be ideal for him to drop 8-15 pounds.

- This is questionable as its something i noticed in some of the video's but did not find much writing of. He does not seem like a selfish player, but he seems to have poor court vision. Although due to the lack of information and video, this could also be a result of simply poorer passing skills.

- Statistically his percentages need improvement.

- Until this season we have seen regular statistical improvements and this should have been a break-out year for him. His fault or not, or for whatever reason, that did not happen.

- Decision making needs to improve. He still shows the symptoms of being a young player in the NBA.

- When he is not on the ball he can often become offensively "lost".

- Potentially over emotional and possibly has overreactions.

- While he can force his way to the rim, it would be nice to see him implement some finesse.

____________
Letter Grades

FG 15ft- : A-
FG 15ft+ : B-
Rebounding : C+
Passing : C+
Ball control : A-
Play making (self): B+
Play making (team) : C+ to B-
Offense overall: High B+
Defense overall: B

We could do a bunch of different letter grades, but these are the things that i personally noticed and felt confident enough to grade myself.

Scenarios
Worst Case - A more "forceful" Rodney Stuckey

Best Case - Vince Carter. Not as athletic, but not far from.

Most likely - Vince Carter post injuries (toned down) numbers with more of a pre-injury style.

[jbk1234]

You guy just traded for my favorite player to wear a Cavs uniform since the Cavs drafted a young LBJ. His defense has really come on this year. Regardless of the score in the game, there is no quit in the kid. There is a good chance that you guys win this trade.

I think we bet on the wrong horse this summer when we signed Kyrie to the max this summer (when there was really no need to do so). Good luck. I'll be watching the Thunder more closely.

[Joest2003]

So we got the guy with the biggest net negative from a team that wouldn't even be in the playoffs if they were in the west? Perfect!!!

[tyguy]

You guy just traded for my favorite player to wear a Cavs uniform since the Cavs drafted a young LBJ. His defense has really come on this year. Regardless of the score in the game, there is no quit in the kid. There is a good chance that you guys win this trade.

I think we bet on the wrong horse this summer when we signed Kyrie to the max this summer (when there was really no need to do so). Good luck. I'll be watching the Thunder more closely.

i have no idea why so many people from cleveland loved this guy. What was so endearing about him that made people want to go down with the ship? He has consistently been a below average player with a piss poor attitude. He honestly felt he was better than kyrie and was causing all sorts of problems because he felt the organization favored kyrie ( and they did because he is better). Seriously, everybody but dion knows he is incredibly mediocre.

Nothing is more nauseating than a guy that won't buy into his role because he thinks he is too good. If he doesn't shape up and change his attitude, he will get a chance to become d wade ( like he thinks he is), in china.

Also, his defense for the most part is piss poor. He frequently falls asleep when defending off the ball, and gives poor effort when he is pouting because he isn't making shots (most of the time).

Not going to miss his and 1s and ayes!!! Either as he blows a layup that is mildly contested. Can't forget his constant waving for the ball in the perimeter as he throws his arms down in disgust when the ball isn't kicked out to him so that he can pound the ball for an eternity only to take a long step back two.

[FESPN]

I guess everybody here has figured this post here is WAY off base. Even though I loved Dion too, it was obvious his attitude, shot selection, weight and lack of talent were not what I had hoped for when he was drafted. I really think an ideal place for him will be a lottery team he can just chuck away, pout, and lose. In that case I imagine OKC will wash their hands of him ASAP.

You guy just traded for my favorite player to wear a Cavs uniform since the Cavs drafted a young LBJ. His defense has really come on this year. Regardless of the score in the game, there is no quit in the kid. There is a good chance that you guys win this trade.

I think we bet on the wrong horse this summer when we signed Kyrie to the max this summer (when there was really no need to do so). Good luck. I'll be watching the Thunder more closely.

[bondom34]

I guess everybody here has figured this post here is WAY off base. Even though I loved Dion too, it was obvious his attitude, shot selection, weight and lack of talent were not what I had hoped for when he was drafted. I really think an ideal place for him will be a lottery team he can just chuck away, pout, and lose. In that case I imagine OKC will wash their hands of him ASAP.

You guy just traded for my favorite player to wear a Cavs uniform since the Cavs drafted a young LBJ. His defense has really come on this year. Regardless of the score in the game, there is no quit in the kid. There is a good chance that you guys win this trade.

I think we bet on the wrong horse this summer when we signed Kyrie to the max this summer (when there was really no need to do so). Good luck. I'll be watching the Thunder more closely.

Spearsy brought it up oostgame last night, but he finally got a shorter leash from Brooks. Hoping it stays that way too, as though I thought a change of scenery could help the kid, it hasn't. And if he's gonna play well once every 5 games, its not worth it. Sadly this trade looks to be a bad one now

[Bravenewworld]

I find people's predetermined position on Waiters amazing and at this point i dont even get what people were expecting out of him. And I really get the sense, that if this guy is not posting 20 a game then people are just going to sit here and cry about it.
Thus far, this month, he has had two off games, that is it. The rest are 11 to 24 at roughly 50 percent.

What exactly did you people expect of him?
Because im really getting the damned if you do, damned if you dont vibe going on here.... its pretty obvious actually.

[spearsy23]

38%, 27% from three, 44% ts, 11 points, 11.5 shots, 1.4 assists, 1.5 turnovers, 2.5 rebounds, 89 O-rating, 9.5 PER, -1.3 On/Off

The only good stat? 1.3 steals per game. This is pretty much what WE all expected. You're the one who thinks he is good.

[bondom34]

We're also apparently ignoring that 2 of the 4 supposed "good" games this month were games in which he had a -11 plus minus in a game the team won by a ton, and a game with 4 TOs.

[JonFromVA]

Dion seemed at his best for short periods when Kyrie was out and he was able to run the Cavs. The 6th man thing kind of works, but that stopped working so well when he was typically paired with James or Irving in a staggered rotation.

So the fit was never all that clear with the Thunder, other than a change in locker-room perhaps doing him some good.

Dion might produce if he could be the PG or the #1 option at SG for a team, but I agree with FESPN that if he finds this, it'll likely be on a lottery team.

Unless someday he ever looks in the mirror and realizes what his problem truly is ...

[spearsy23]

We're also apparently ignoring that 2 of the 4 supposed "good" games this month were games in which he had a -11 plus minus in a game the team won by a ton, and a game with 4 TOs.

Don't know if you've seen Sideshowbob's post in the PC board, but RAPM for 2015 is out. http://stats-for-the-nba.appspot.com/ratings/RAPM_2015.html
Ctrl + F Dion for a major shocker.

[bondom34]

We're also apparently ignoring that 2 of the 4 supposed "good" games this month were games in which he had a -11 plus minus in a game the team won by a ton, and a game with 4 TOs.

Don't know if you've seen Sideshowbob's post in the PC board, but RAPM for 2015 is out. http://stats-for-the-nba.appspot.com/ratings/RAPM_2015.html
Ctrl + F Dion for a major shocker.

Before I look....I know he's the worst SG in the league in RPM. Gonna guess.

[bondom34]

That really was a shock!

[spearsy23]

It gets better, he grades the same as Lamb offensively but Lamb is +.3 defensively. D-Wade is even both offensively and defensively. Roberson's looks great.

Never mind, looked at the wrong player, Lamb is -.5 offensively. So Waiters is better offensively and worse defensively... This just doesn't make sense