SG Position / Donovan Coaching Style

TBOKED · Post #1 » by **TBOKED** » Mon Aug 3, 2015 1:12 am

Donovan dislikes midrange, prefers more three point or short range.

This points to Morrow getting the heaviest minutes for SGs. I think Andre still starts, only because Westbrook and Durant help compensate for his weak offense and it prevents opposing SGs from going off early.

Waiters' best shot at minutes short of injuries is AM getting max minutes at SF behind Durant and Singler.

Agree or disagree?

Post #2 » by **bondom34** » Mon Aug 3, 2015 5:10 am

Agree, and its pretty much what happened last year. Should start Robes and Morrow gets the most minutes. They just need to sit Waiters more.

Kizz Fastfists · Post #3 » by **Kizz Fastfists** » Mon Aug 3, 2015 5:18 am

I'm surprised Waiters is still on the team. He's just not a guy I see fitting in with this team. Waiters too 25% of his shoots between 16ft and the 3pt line, or long 2s with OKC. That was below his number with Cleveland, 29%, before the trade and lower than his career mark of 27%. For OKC he shot 40% on those shots and for his career he is 41%. Those are just terrible percentages.

I think Roberson is fine as he either shoots from 3 or at the rim. 93% of Roberson's shots last year were either from 3 or at the rim. Those are numbers that Donovan loves. Does Roberson need to shoot better than 25% from 3? YES! However, if he can get up to 35% he would be a great starting SG for OKC. Even at 30% he'd be a very good player in his role. He is a smart player who fits in with what Donovan wants in terms of play style, but he needs to improve his execution.

I think there is a much better chance of Roberson improving his 3pt shooting than Waiters learning how to play basketball in a way that makes sense. Morrow is a great spot up shooter, but his offense is greatly limited after that. He showed some defensive improvement as the season went on last year, but he's still not good at it. I expect Roberson, Morrow, Russ and Augustin to play all the SG minutes. I think Russ will play off the ball some with both Augustin and Payne at times. We've seen Russ play off the ball in the past for short periods I'm not saying he's going to lose the PG job just play off the ball for a 5 min stretch here and there depending on situations and match-ups.

BIG EDDIE · Post #4 » by **BIG EDDIE** » Mon Aug 3, 2015 1:36 pm

I believe the line-up should look like this:

Starters:
Ibaka
KD
Adams
Morrow
Russ

Bench:
McGary/Collison
Singler
Kanter
Waiters/Roberson
DJ/Payne

I think we either need Kanter or Morrow in the starting lineup for a well-balanced offense.
Adams and Ibaka form a very solid frontcourt on D and Russ, KD and Morrow will also do just fine there.
Kanter is a liability on D and I dont think Roberson's D can make up for it really.

Bringing Kanter off the bench will also be HUGE, best 6th man almost guaranteed.

TBOKED · Post #5 » by **TBOKED** » Mon Aug 3, 2015 3:26 pm

BIG EDDIE wrote:I believe the line-up should look like this:

Starters:
Ibaka
KD
Adams
Morrow
Russ

Bench:
McGary/Collison
Singler
Kanter
Waiters/Roberson
DJ/Payne

I think we either need Kanter or Morrow in the starting lineup for a well-balanced offense.
Adams and Ibaka form a very solid frontcourt on D and Russ, KD and Morrow will also do just fine there.
Kanter is a liability on D and I dont think Roberson's D can make up for it really.

Bringing Kanter off the bench will also be HUGE, best 6th man almost guaranteed.

Thanks for the responses.

I would actually like this lineup better than what I originally suggested if we had someone that could provide help defense for Kanter, particularly in P&R situations. Ibaka is the only one OKC has with skill set to do that effectively. It has to be a long, quick, athletic type with some basketball IQ.

If Kanter is in the starting lineup, you need Morrow with second unit to provide offense.

Bravenewworld · Post #6 » by **Bravenewworld** » Thu Aug 6, 2015 1:44 am

Roberson will most likely start but i think Waiters is going to get the majority of single player minutes at the 2.
He is very similar to the 2 guards Donovan has run in the past and Donovan having so much experience coaching developing youth, should easily get him to buy into his role.

That is if he decides to go this route and keeping Westbrook at the point.... but there's a very good chance he plays Westbrook at the 2 more than anyone else.

Pillendreher · Post #7 » by **Pillendreher** » Thu Aug 6, 2015 5:39 pm

No way in hell Waiters gets more minutes than Morrow.

TBOKED · Post #8 » by **TBOKED** » Fri Aug 7, 2015 1:02 am

Pillendreher wrote:No way in hell Waiters gets more minutes than Morrow.

Agree with this

HeartSouloma · Post #9 » by **HeartSouloma** » Sat Aug 8, 2015 5:27 am

We'll see. If Waiters turns it up in camp, I think he'll get more minutes. He needs to be more consistent.

Thundershock88 · Post #10 » by **Thundershock88** » Sat Aug 8, 2015 7:06 am

I don't understand all of the dislike for Waiters. Sure, he's a chucker but he can create his own shot and he had some big games to us. It will be interesting to see how he does with KD and Serge back. He should get a ton of looks.
As far as the starters go:
Westbrook
Morrow
Durant
Ibaka
Kanter

Sure, defense is lacking but who cares when you can blow teams out of the water. Roberson just puts us in the awkward 4 on 5 on offense.

Pillendreher · Post #11 » by **Pillendreher** » Sat Aug 8, 2015 7:26 am

Waiters is just as bad offensively. He's had a decent 10-15 game stretch, but that's it.

Post #12 » by **bondom34** » Sat Aug 8, 2015 8:01 am

Waiters is worse offensively to boot, he just shoots more. They don't go in, and we saw what happens with a no defense lineup, they lost down the stretch because of it. Robes D is possibly more important than Serge when on the court.

Kizz Fastfists · Post #13 » by **Kizz Fastfists** » Sat Aug 8, 2015 2:01 pm

Better offensive players for the Thunder last year than Waiters:

KD
Russ
Morrow
Kanter
Adams
McGary
Ibaka
Roberson
Lamb
Reggie Jackson
Augustin
Collison
Telfair
Singler

You could argue for Perkins as he was more efficient shooting, but not quite as effective, or should I say more ineffective overall. However, after those players Waiters was the best offensive player on the team last year. That list is the list of players more efficient shooting, eFG%, with a higher ORtg and more offensive win shares during their time in OKC. It does not include Waiters' time in Cleveland, Reggie's time in Detroit, etc. If you want to include defense and talk overall then Perkins passes Waiters in box score +/- and Waiters was the lowest ranked Thunder player by VORP last year at -0.7. Waiters is not very good at basketball compared to other NBA players and I challenge you to find any statistic that rates basketball ability, not usage, that says otherwise.

TBOKED · Post #14 » by **TBOKED** » Sat Aug 8, 2015 4:15 pm

Kizz Fastfists wrote:Better offensive players for the Thunder last year than Waiters:

KD
Russ
Morrow
Kanter
Adams
McGary
Ibaka
Roberson
Lamb
Reggie Jackson
Augustin
Collison
Telfair
Singler

You could argue for Perkins as he was more efficient shooting, but not quite as effective, or should I say more ineffective overall. However, after those players Waiters was the best offensive player on the team last year. That list is the list of players more efficient shooting, eFG%, with a higher ORtg and more offensive win shares during their time in OKC. It does not include Waiters' time in Cleveland, Reggie's time in Detroit, etc. If you want to include defense and talk overall then Perkins passes Waiters in box score +/- and Waiters was the lowest ranked Thunder player by VORP last year at -0.7. Waiters is not very good at basketball compared to other NBA players and I challenge you to find any statistic that rates basketball ability, not usage, that says otherwise.

Love this post Even if you don't agree every single player is better offensively than Waiters, it really puts his offensive game, or lack thereof, in perspective.

Marcus50 · Post #15 » by **Marcus50** » Sat Aug 8, 2015 11:48 pm

Thundershock88 wrote:I don't understand all of the dislike for Waiters. Sure, he's a chucker but he can create his own shot and he had some big games to us. It will be interesting to see how he does with KD and Serge back. He should get a ton of looks.
As far as the starters go:
Westbrook
Morrow
Durant
Ibaka
Kanter

Sure, defense is lacking but who cares when you can blow teams out of the water. Roberson just puts us in the awkward 4 on 5 on offense.

All of these players except for Serge need the ball to be effective so how do you think you can balance the usage and keep them all happy. Don't think Serge is going to like having a significant amount of his usage given up to Kanter and then cover Kanters lack of defensive ability/effort.

TBOKED · Post #16 » by **TBOKED** » Sun Aug 9, 2015 1:28 am

Marcus50 wrote:
Thundershock88 wrote:I don't understand all of the dislike for Waiters. Sure, he's a chucker but he can create his own shot and he had some big games to us. It will be interesting to see how he does with KD and Serge back. He should get a ton of looks.
As far as the starters go:
Westbrook
Morrow
Durant
Ibaka
Kanter

Sure, defense is lacking but who cares when you can blow teams out of the water. Roberson just puts us in the awkward 4 on 5 on offense.

All of these players except for Serge need the ball to be effective so how do you think you can balance the usage and keep them all happy. Don't think Serge is going to like having a significant amount of his usage given up to Kanter and then cover Kanters lack of defensive ability/effort.

That read like a troll post, but I can't resist biting.

Lots of winning and the prospect of winning a championship should take care of that.

Everyone is sleeping on this team. They were decimated by injuries last year. If their stars can avoid the injury bug, a big if, they will slaughter everyone else.

Thundershock88 · Post #17 » by **Thundershock88** » Sun Aug 9, 2015 10:03 pm

Marcus50 wrote:
Thundershock88 wrote:I don't understand all of the dislike for Waiters. Sure, he's a chucker but he can create his own shot and he had some big games to us. It will be interesting to see how he does with KD and Serge back. He should get a ton of looks.
As far as the starters go:
Westbrook
Morrow
Durant
Ibaka
Kanter

Sure, defense is lacking but who cares when you can blow teams out of the water. Roberson just puts us in the awkward 4 on 5 on offense.

All of these players except for Serge need the ball to be effective so how do you think you can balance the usage and keep them all happy. Don't think Serge is going to like having a significant amount of his usage given up to Kanter and then cover Kanters lack of defensive ability/effort.

Kanter just got paid, he needs to play. Kanter > Adams.Also, KD isn't the best defender in the world but he does have his moments and he makes big plays. As far as Serge goes, its a team game. I don't think he would complain when he's open that much. Morrow doesn't need much space as it is. We've tried the defensive route before. It only goes so far. Roberson is not a starting NBA caliber player. He's far from it. We should have just kept Thabo if we were going in that direction. This lineup would space the floor like crazy and with Kanters talented rebounding skills it would be a nightmare for any team.

Post #18 » by **bondom34** » Mon Aug 10, 2015 12:50 am

Thundershock88 wrote:
Marcus50 wrote:
Thundershock88 wrote:I don't understand all of the dislike for Waiters. Sure, he's a chucker but he can create his own shot and he had some big games to us. It will be interesting to see how he does with KD and Serge back. He should get a ton of looks.
As far as the starters go:
Westbrook
Morrow
Durant
Ibaka
Kanter

Sure, defense is lacking but who cares when you can blow teams out of the water. Roberson just puts us in the awkward 4 on 5 on offense.

All of these players except for Serge need the ball to be effective so how do you think you can balance the usage and keep them all happy. Don't think Serge is going to like having a significant amount of his usage given up to Kanter and then cover Kanters lack of defensive ability/effort.

Kanter just got paid, he needs to play. Kanter > Adams.Also, KD isn't the best defender in the world but he does have his moments and he makes big plays. As far as Serge goes, its a team game. I don't think he would complain when he's open that much. Morrow doesn't need much space as it is. We've tried the defensive route before. It only goes so far. Roberson is not a starting NBA caliber player. He's far from it. We should have just kept Thabo if we were going in that direction. This lineup would space the floor like crazy and with Kanters talented rebounding skills it would be a nightmare for any team.

I'd disagree really highly on Robes, the last thing I want is a guy like Dion out there w/ the starters, and the defense falling apart was what killed the team last year. Remember the Dallas game? They can score 120 sure, but they give up 121 and its a loss. Roberson is basically MKG lite, and the best starting option by a mile for the setup they have going. Kanter is the question, really ideally he splits time w/ Adams to cover the defensive lapses, we'll see if he can fix them a bit to get more time.

Kizz Fastfists · Post #19 » by **Kizz Fastfists** » Mon Aug 10, 2015 1:32 am

Thundershock88 wrote:We've tried the defensive route before. It only goes so far.

By so far you mean the NBA Finals? Remember the last time this team was healthy in the playoffs they made the Finals. The last time they were healthy in the regular season they had the best point differential ever to not win a championship, because of the Russ injury. Balancing the lineup with offense and defense has worked. Losing one of your three best players to injury in the playoffs has not worked. If you have some magic pill to keep everyone healthy please pass it out. Otherwise they should stick with what has worked quite well.

Then again, maybe the Cavs should blow it up since apparently things did work for them last year and they only made it so far.

Marcus50 · Post #20 » by **Marcus50** » Mon Aug 10, 2015 8:39 pm

Thundershock88 wrote:
Marcus50 wrote:
Thundershock88 wrote:I don't understand all of the dislike for Waiters. Sure, he's a chucker but he can create his own shot and he had some big games to us. It will be interesting to see how he does with KD and Serge back. He should get a ton of looks.
As far as the starters go:
Westbrook
Morrow
Durant
Ibaka
Kanter

Sure, defense is lacking but who cares when you can blow teams out of the water. Roberson just puts us in the awkward 4 on 5 on offense.

All of these players except for Serge need the ball to be effective so how do you think you can balance the usage and keep them all happy. Don't think Serge is going to like having a significant amount of his usage given up to Kanter and then cover Kanters lack of defensive ability/effort.

Kanter just got paid, he needs to play. Kanter > Adams.Also, KD isn't the best defender in the world but he does have his moments and he makes big plays. As far as Serge goes, its a team game. I don't think he would complain when he's open that much. Morrow doesn't need much space as it is. We've tried the defensive route before. It only goes so far. Roberson is not a starting NBA caliber player. He's far from it. We should have just kept Thabo if we were going in that direction. This lineup would space the floor like crazy and with Kanters talented rebounding skills it would be a nightmare for any team.

If Donovan starts picking teams on who gets paid the most we are screwed. If Kanter starts with Morrow we are screwed. Happy for Kanter to start if Robes and Serge are out there to cover up the defensive holes he will leave