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I like Ibaka but he needs to be moved.

1. He will command a max deal in a couple of years. No way can OKC afford keeping everyone. They won't be able to sign Adams if they sign Ibaka.

2. We are overloaded with bigs and have huge gaps on the wing.

3. We desperately need a 3 and D wing to compete with GSW.

4. GSW and the Spurs have found an easy way to counter Ibaka's shot blocking

5. Ibaka has high value right now. But its pretty obvious he's on the wrong side of 30

My dream trade would be this:

Houston gets Ibaka

OKC gets Trevor Ariza and Terrance Jones


Houston will get another 'star' and Ibaka is Daryl Morrey's dream center who can shoot 3 pointers and protect the rim. They also need Ibaka to take Dwight's place. OKC gets the 3 and D wing they have desperately wanted for 5 years. Ariza can guard 3 positions and even small power forwards like Draymond Green. Plus he's at 38% from 3 FG. Terrance Jones will be our 4th big.

OKC Starting line up:

Russ/Waiters/Ariza/KD/Adams

Bench:

Payne/Roberson/Kanter/Singler/Jones

I don't even know where to start.

Nope, not for that.

And if Waiters starts, I'm officially retiring as mod and no longer a fan of this franchise. Can't do it.

dbrandon wrote:I don't even know where to start.

why not? What value does Ibaka have if GSW/Spurs can cancel his rim protection? All they need to do is play a small lineup and force Ibaka out of the paint. And because Ibaka has zero low post game, teams can feast on guarding him with a much smaller player.

It comes down to priorities. We need a 3 and D wing much more than we need Ibaka.

bondom34 wrote:Nope, not for that.

And if Waiters starts, I'm officially retiring as mod and no longer a fan of this franchise. Can't do it.

What's wrong with starting Waiters? He seems to play better as a starter. He takes way less horrible shots and gives 100% on defense. He shots 40% catch and shoot 3's. He just needs to limit his bad shots and he's doing much better with the starting line up. All he needs to do to is play good defense, knock down catch and shoot 3's, and occasionally drive to the rim. The guy has all the tools to be a solid role player.

I like Roberson alot. But his horrible shooting will kill us in the playoffs if he starts. He's much better served coming off the bench and boosting our defense for the 2nd unit. That also puts less pressure on Roberson to shoot well.

OK, point-by-point:

kraytinprime wrote:I like Ibaka but he needs to be moved.

1. He will command a max deal in a couple of years. No way can OKC afford keeping everyone. They won't be able to sign Adams if they sign Ibaka.

2 years from now. And I'm increasingly thinking that he might not get a max. We can worry about that next offseason, not this one. There is enough money if you move Kanter, which I know you don't want to do, but he's overpaid and only plays one end of the floor.

kraytinprime wrote:2. We are overloaded with bigs and have huge gaps on the wing.

Wouldn't call us overloaded, but yes, our wing is bad.

kraytinprime wrote:3. We desperately need a 3 and D wing to compete with GSW.

Agreed, but I don't think the gap is as big as you think. Think we can find someone with what assets we have without moving Ibaka.

kraytinprime wrote:4. GSW and the Spurs have found an easy way to counter Ibaka's shot blocking

You might as well say "trade Aldridge because Draymond Green counters his shooting". And you just figure out a way to not let them counter him. Steve Kerr and Greg Popovich are not God. That's what basketball is—figuring out how to exploit your opponent's weaknesses and minimize your own. That's what any sport is. That's the whole reason you have a coach.

And FWIW Ibaka had 2 blocks against the Spurs in the only game we played against them, and he didn't have any in the only game we played against GSW. But Adams did. We have 2 rim protectors, not just 1. 3 if you count KD.

kraytinprime wrote:5. Ibaka has high value right now. But its pretty obvious he's on the wrong side of 30

Unless you're some sort of Ibaka birther, this is not a thing.

kraytinprime wrote:My dream trade would be this:

Houston gets Ibaka

OKC gets Trevor Ariza and Terrance Jones


Houston will get another 'star' and Ibaka is Daryl Morrey's dream center who can shoot 3 pointers and protect the rim. They also need Ibaka to take Dwight's place. OKC gets the 3 and D wing they have desperately wanted for 5 years. Ariza can guard 3 positions and even small power forwards like Draymond Green. Plus he's at 38% from 3 FG. Terrance Jones will be our 4th big.

OKC Starting line up:

Russ/Waiters/Ariza/KD/Adams

Bench:

Payne/Roberson/Kanter/Singler/Jones

So your solution for "Ibaka commands a max deal in 2017" is to trade for Ariza (who is good, I grant you that) and Terrence Jones (who is barely an average starter, and will get massively overpaid this summer). So Jones's deal takes up all of our cap space this summer.

In the year we need to re-sign Durant.

I'm trying not to just attack the poster here, but this is asinine. It just is. Sorry.

kraytinprime wrote:

bondom34 wrote:Nope, not for that.

And if Waiters starts, I'm officially retiring as mod and no longer a fan of this franchise. Can't do it.

What's wrong with starting Waiters? He seems to play better as a starter. He takes way less horrible shots and gives 100% on defense. He shots 40% catch and shoot 3's. He just needs to limit his bad shots and he's doing much better with the starting line up. All he needs to do to is play good defense, knock down catch and shoot 3's, and occasionally drive to the rim. The guy has all the tools to be a solid role player.

I like Roberson alot. But his horrible shooting will kill us in the playoffs if he starts. He's much better served coming off the bench and boosting our defense for the 2nd unit. That also puts less pressure on Roberson to shoot well.

Every lineup Waiters is in gets worse when he's in it compared to Roberson. He doesn't limit bad shots, and keeps taking them. He's a bad defender, inefficient, overdribbles, turns it over too much, and has bad shot selection. He tries hard though.

He can't defend, Roberson can. Second unit needs a creator, Roberson can't. Dion can, but really doesn't do much else well at all.

Dion is just a bad player.

NO. Playoff Serge will show you why.

I agree. Our defense is so good that we should trade our best defender just to give other teams a chance against us.

Fabio19 wrote:I agree. Our defense is so good that we should trade our best defender just to give other teams a chance against us.

The thing is how good was Ibaka's defense against GSW? None existant since he was guarding Barnes and was stuck outside of the paint. And on offense GSW could put a small forward on him since he can't do any damage in the low block. The Spurs also can easily neutralize Ibaka by using Diaw to draw him out of the paint.

What will really help our defense is a wing like Ariza. We have enough big men to guard the rim (Adams, KD, Kanter).

A small ball line up of Russ/Waiters/Ariza/KD/Adams would keep up with any line up GSW/Spurs trout out.

And if GSW wants to play Curry/Klay/Iggy/Barnes/Green we can easily match up with Russ/Waiters/Roberson/Ariza/KD.

Of course if we can get a quality 3 and D guy without trading Ibaka that would be ideal. But I think the only way to get a guy like Ariza is to trade Ibaka. And at this point I'm willing to sacrifice one of our bigs to get a wing.

Balkman32 wrote:NO. Playoff Serge will show you why.

You are remembering the Serge from 3 years ago. Today's Serge is not the same. His 2.2 blocks is the lowest since his rookie season. A younger Serge was averaging over 3 blocks in the playoffs. He is not the same guy. Most of the league does not know this and still think Serge is an elite level rim protector, he isn't anymore.

But there are other problems with his game. He can't pass, he can't dribble, he can't catch. He's averaging less rebounds than Russ. The only thing he can do on offense he shoot jumpers. If OKC can get 2 good wing players and a backup big for Serge they need to do it.

Ibaka is key player to beat Spurs.
Thabo was great fit for OKC and he never was some great shoter, he was excellent defender as same as Andre(he is not on the same level, but close). Ibaka is not problem for Thunder. Problem is balance of bench. To many "one trick" players who can't defend.
And that is on Presti.

Zagor wrote:Ibaka is key player to beat Spurs.
Thabo was great fit for OKC and he never was some great shoter, he was excellent defender as same as Andre(he is not on the same level, but close). Ibaka is not problem for Thunder. Problem is balance of bench. To many "one trick" players who can't defend.
And that is on Presti.

I agree OKC has too many 1 dimensional players:

Roberson - no offense
Kanter - no defense
Morrow - no defense
Singler - blah
Waiters - inconsistent

That's why I want OKC to trade Ibaka for 2 or 3 quality pieces. OKC needs more depth. And the only way to get it is to trade someone of value. The only guys of value are Russ/KD/Ibaka.

Yes in a perfect world I'd like to keep Ibaka and get 2 quality wings. But that ain't happenning. I truly believe we need at least one more quality wing to stand a chance against GSW/Spurs. If we stay as we are the only way we beat those teams is if Russ/KD just totally dominate and average 70-75 points per game combined.

I also think trading Ibaka now is selling high. Its painfully obvious to me that he just doesn't have the same athletic ability as 3 years ago, not even close. Besides we won't be able to keep him down the road anyway since Adams will need to be paid also.

OKC's two biggest problems is defense from the wing (Morrow/Singler) and lack of 3 point shooting from the wing (Roberson). OKC is still strong at rim defense when Ibaka is not playing. Adams is our inside anchor now. This is a new league. You no longer need 2 true bigs guarding the paint anymore. Ibaka's skills on defense is reduntant with Adams.

Serge likely is a main reason they can have a shot against the Spurs. He's not going anywhere.

bondom34 wrote:Serge likely is a main reason they can have a shot against the Spurs. He's not going anywhere.

Why? In the past I would agree. The 2012-2014 Spurs we needed Ibaka to stop the drives of Parker/Manu. But these Spurs are different. OKC does not need the rim protection like in the past. What OKC needs more than rim protection is quality wings to counter small ball from GSW and the Spurs.

Besides Ibaka isn't 2013 Ibaka anymore. He has dropped off considerably the last 2 years. Most teams only have 1 elite big man rim protector. OKC has two (Ibaka, Adams).

GSW only has Bogut.
Cleveland only has Mozgov (who hardly plays).
Spurs only have Duncan.

The truth is rim protectors just aren't that important anymore. The game has changed. Its more about guarding the 3 point line. We have good enough rim protection with Adams/KD.

kraytinprime wrote:

bondom34 wrote:Serge likely is a main reason they can have a shot against the Spurs. He's not going anywhere.

Why? In the past I would agree. The 2012-2014 Spurs we needed Ibaka to stop the drives of Parker/Manu. But these Spurs are different. OKC does not need the rim protection like in the past. What OKC needs more than rim protection is quality wings to counter small ball from GSW and the Spurs.

Besides Ibaka isn't 2013 Ibaka anymore. He has dropped off considerably the last 2 years. Most teams only have 1 elite big man rim protector. OKC has two (Ibaka, Adams).

GSW only has Bogut.
Cleveland only has Mozgov (who hardly plays).
Spurs only have Duncan.

The truth is rim protectors just aren't that important anymore. The game has changed. Its more about guarding the 3 point line. We have good enough rim protection with Adams/KD.

Adams isn't an elite rim protector. He's great at other parts, but not rim protection.

Rim protectors are still important. As is defense, and Ibaka is pretty necessary.

kraytinprime wrote:What will really help our defense is a wing like Ariza. We have enough big men to guard the rim (Adams, KD, Kanter).

Are we all just going to let this go?

We're in crisis mode, we can't put fires out everywhere.

Pillendreher wrote:We're in crisis mode, we can't put fires out everywhere.

But if we have an excess in one area (big men) why not trade to help an area we are really weak?

We have so many quality bigs - Adams, Kanter, Ibaka, KD, Collison, and McGary.

We have ZERO 2 way wings. Why not trade away our excess big to shore up our wings? Especially since the elite teams all have elite wing scorers?

And how important is rim protection in todays NBA?

Cleveland has ZERO rim protection and they will win the East. Mozgov is their only rim protector and he's riding the bench. His rim protection did nothing to help the Cavs in the finals.

GSW benched their only rim protector in the Finals. In fact with Bogut out they played 100x better.

The Spurs single rim protector will be 40 years old in March.

So is rim protection even that important in todays NBA? I'd say wing defense is much more important. Cleveland, GSW, and Spurs all lack elite level rim protectors and have won without them. Adams is good enough.

Did I miss the part where Durant suddenly became a big? Last I checked he was still playing the 3, playing like a 3, and doing it better than anyone else in the league.