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Thread for Kanter/Turkey/Erdogan/Gulen discussion.

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If he was kidnapped would they be able to wipe his contract off the books and give russell more money next year to sign another year extension? I'd suspect PrestI of foul play.


Kidding. Sort of. I don't think I'd be vacationing overseas if i was kanter though

I don't know what to make of it. All I know is what U.S. media says about Erdogan (not exactly glowing).

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OK here is a brief summary for people who cannot understand the situation below the surface of heated debates:

- One of Kanter's twitter friends comedian Atalay Demirci was sent to jail last week after his twitter account was hacked and his private conversations with Kanter were printed in the newspapers. Actually they were normal conversations like "bro what happened to us, what happened to our brothers sisters. i need to unfollow you because people will start doubting me" kanter was saying "ok no problem bro" . .just stuff like that and the comedian was sent into jail last week for "being a member of a terrorist organization". Now news are circulating about him that his victory in Turkey's Got Talent competition was rigged by Gulen organization and he was also recruiting other followers using his persona etc. etc.

- Kanter's father is an academic in Medeniyet University in Turkey. This is a university that had ties with both Erdogan and Fethullah Gulen. Now he is under investigation by police for his alleged ties with Gulen organization. There is no concrete information but looking at Enes' staunch support for Gulen organization it shuld be obvious that his father was also a Gulen supporter too. His father IMHO had to make some kind of public statement to clear himself of accusations so he chose the "Soviet iron curtain style" disowning method which Enes complied with to prevent any further damage to his own family. But even this was not enough for some pro-government newspapers and today they have been printing articles like Enes's father is not sincere and should not be subject to decrease in punishment because of his "fake" regret. His disowning was also compared to Atalay Demirci's unfollow of Kanter in Twitter and mocked as Kanter's father "unfollowing" him because of current situation:
http://www.sabah.com.tr/yazarlar/gunaydin/sb-mevlut_tezel/2016/08/10/enes-kanterin-babasi-samimi-mi

- Last week, the TV channel of the of above newspaper (Sabah) was showing a notebook that was retrieved from a dumpster of a Gulen school which had a page with headline "GTA IV cheat codes" and cheat codes like "health&gun 482558" "helicopter 3456688" etc. They told that this was actually secret codes for the planning of seizing of guns, helicopters for the coup and the Gulen organization shamelessly used the schools for coup planning. No, i am not joking, really:



So as you can see there is an ultra paranoid climate in country and serious distrust against USA because of Gulen residing in PA. IMHO Gulen is 100% behind the coup but it is also 100% Erdogan's fault for letting them seep into army and judiciary ranks in the last 15 years just because they were deemed to be more religious and more loyal to Erdogan's AKP party than previous secular elite. One former top ranked officer of Gulen organization told that the filling of army and judiciary ranks with Gulen organization followers has increased by tenfold under Erdogan's rule. So it was actually Erdogan himself who brought this menace to the country and now he is organizing a witch hunt as if he was not to blame at all.

My father was a typical secular Turk with high admiration of Ataturk so like most of the secular people in Turkey he hated these Gulen's "Cemaat" guys. He even did not rent our flat to them, did not shop from them or did not buy any brand that had slight relation to Cemaat. This was the stance of secular Turkey and secular Turkish state since its foundation but AKP unfortunately broke all the rules, removed all the filters that prevented these guys from earning top spots everywhere. So in just 15 years he not only broke the foundations of young Turkish republic of Ataturk, he also broke the old rule of Ottoman Empire that "no state officer can hold his ties to his sect, family or religion above the state so state officers will be selected from devshirmes (kids taken from non-muslim minorities and raised by government itself to not to have ties to anything) not from people referred by so called organizations".

I can understand Kanter and I am not angry of him. I had friends like him in the past when i was in high school. They were usually sons of poor farmers etc. whose family did not have any means to provide them education so were caught in the web of this Gulen organization "Cemaat" and were raised as puppets to obey whatever their big brothers told them to do so he possibly will need some time to wake up from his dream (hopefully he will learn to play defense long before that).

So I believe in the best interests of OKC Thunder and Kanter as a young and brainwashed person, this debate should not escalate anymore, while Kanter should stop sending political tweets for a while. No political party, no ruler is eternal and he is young, he should just learn how to keep silent at times in life for the sake of people he loves. He is showing signs of maturity since his days in Utah (where he was acting like a complete spoiled brat) so let's just hope that he will learn from these important events in his life and will strive more to become a much better baller in future.

Thanks oken!

I just realized I live like 90 miles from Gulen (Saylorsburg, PA).

bondom34 wrote:Thanks oken!

I just realized I live like 90 miles from Gulen (Saylorsburg, PA).

Go tell him to to tell Kanter not to change his name. No one wants to buy new jerseys and shirseys.

SlowPaced wrote:

dbrandon wrote:

SlowPaced wrote:
I'd need to go into the depths of Gülen-AKP cooperation's background to explain it all and I don't have time to do that.

I came here to clear up a couple of points about Enes. He's not a "good guy" in this story, nor is he receiving "unfair treatment". That's all there's to it. Gülen-Erdoğan thing is the battle of two evils. Two extreme Islamist fundamentalists going at it because they had a clash of interests.

I'm not suggesting either man is a saint. But I've seen apologists for both sides making throwaway accounts to argue their points on multiple forums over the last couple of months.

Whoever's behind it, Erdogan used the coup attempt as a pretext to continue to clamp down on opposition in Turkey. He's headed towards authoritarianism.

If Gulen was behind the coup, which I'm not entirely convinced of, he's using his religious influence to wield political power from afar. Which also leaves a bad taste in my mouth.

Politics, man. People suck. I feel bad for Turkey—they've gone from Ataturk to this...

Also, just in case, I want to preemptively say that you guys can discuss politics here, but it's probably best in the off-topic thread. You're free to agree or disagree, but if it gets too heated Bondom and I will step in. We've got a good group of fairly level-headed posters here, at least in my opinion. Hopefully the warning's not needed, but I wanted to say something before we got too far in.

Well I can tell you that I'm the biggest Erdoğan opposer you can see around.

I'm just tired of seeing so many people acting like Gülenists are some good guys here because they're going up against Erdoğan, so I'm just trying my best to explain certain things. Gülen was Erdoğan's ally for more than a decade. They corrupted our justice system together. If you dislike Erdoğan, you should dislike Gülen in the same manner. Every secularist in our country would tell you the same thing.

Moving this to this thread:

I don't know that it is so much his stance v. Erdogan as much as it is that Americans just don't get a lot of context in our media. The way its portrayed over here Gulen has been depicted as championing a sort of moderate form of Islam juxtaposed against a lot of the violence in the region. That's pretty much the only coverage the region gets in mainstream U.S. media, when violence breaks out (or when OPEC decides to cut oil production). So I do think a lot of people have been led to believe Gulen is one of the good guys regardless of his specific stance in internal Turkish politics.

Old Man Game wrote:

SlowPaced wrote:

dbrandon wrote:
I'm not suggesting either man is a saint. But I've seen apologists for both sides making throwaway accounts to argue their points on multiple forums over the last couple of months.

Whoever's behind it, Erdogan used the coup attempt as a pretext to continue to clamp down on opposition in Turkey. He's headed towards authoritarianism.

If Gulen was behind the coup, which I'm not entirely convinced of, he's using his religious influence to wield political power from afar. Which also leaves a bad taste in my mouth.

Politics, man. People suck. I feel bad for Turkey—they've gone from Ataturk to this...

Also, just in case, I want to preemptively say that you guys can discuss politics here, but it's probably best in the off-topic thread. You're free to agree or disagree, but if it gets too heated Bondom and I will step in. We've got a good group of fairly level-headed posters here, at least in my opinion. Hopefully the warning's not needed, but I wanted to say something before we got too far in.

Well I can tell you that I'm the biggest Erdoğan opposer you can see around.

I'm just tired of seeing so many people acting like Gülenists are some good guys here because they're going up against Erdoğan, so I'm just trying my best to explain certain things. Gülen was Erdoğan's ally for more than a decade. They corrupted our justice system together. If you dislike Erdoğan, you should dislike Gülen in the same manner. Every secularist in our country would tell you the same thing.

Moving this to this thread:

I don't know that it is so much his stance v. Erdogan as much as it is that Americans just don't get a lot of context in our media. The way its portrayed over here Gulen has been depicted as championing a sort of moderate form of Islam juxtaposed against a lot of the violence in the region. That's pretty much the only coverage the region gets in mainstream U.S. media, when violence breaks out (or when OPEC decides to cut oil production). So I do think a lot of people have been led to believe Gulen is one of the good guys regardless of his specific stance in internal Turkish politics.

Yes, I can sense that. And it's no coincidence, because Gülen is someone that received strong CIA backing throughout the years. He's one of the many puppets they've used to meddle in with things in regions across the globe. Of course they're gonna protect him, he's "their guy". (And I hope that CIA's positions in supporting dark people in the past for their own agenda is apparent enough for me not to explain it, you have things like making Taliban happen in Afghanistan by supporting the Mujahideen against Soviets, supporting Saddam against Iran, feeding the rebels against Assad to make way for groups like ISIS and so on)

The business is very, very shady. Gülen's strong presence in the Turkish politics goes back to the 80s. He was one of the few figures that went through the 80's coup unscathed despite being convicted prior. Turgut Özal, who was specifically trained in the U.S. and worked in the U.S. came into power after the coup, and he recognized Gülen as an ally. Gülen also went through the 1997's post-modern coup against Islamist government unscathed, despite the massive crackdown on Islamists across the nation. The reception for that post-modern coup was one of the main reasons why Erdoğan's newly formed party AKP received such a strong backing, and guess who Erdoğan and AKP were allied with when they came into power? Gülen.

The corruption in the Turkish Army to promote Gülenist officers goes back to the 90s. The questions for military school entrance exams were stolen and an influx of Gülenists entered the military. During mid 2000s, AKP and Gülenists co-operated to stage the Ergenekon and Sledgehammer cases to cleanse the army from secularist officers and promoted Gülenist officers to stronger positions. Many secularist, social democratic officers were jailed unjustly, some of them even passed away while in jail. One of them killed himself because he couldn't take the injustice any longer.

I could go on and on about the details of all this, but it'd take too much of an effort. The fact of the matter is Gülen is a religious fundamentalist charlatan, who became the puppet for United States' bulls**t "moderate Islam" project. He's one of the leading reasons why Turkey has gone down the drain.

SlowPaced wrote:

Old Man Game wrote:

SlowPaced wrote:
Well I can tell you that I'm the biggest Erdoğan opposer you can see around.

I'm just tired of seeing so many people acting like Gülenists are some good guys here because they're going up against Erdoğan, so I'm just trying my best to explain certain things. Gülen was Erdoğan's ally for more than a decade. They corrupted our justice system together. If you dislike Erdoğan, you should dislike Gülen in the same manner. Every secularist in our country would tell you the same thing.

Moving this to this thread:

I don't know that it is so much his stance v. Erdogan as much as it is that Americans just don't get a lot of context in our media. The way its portrayed over here Gulen has been depicted as championing a sort of moderate form of Islam juxtaposed against a lot of the violence in the region. That's pretty much the only coverage the region gets in mainstream U.S. media, when violence breaks out (or when OPEC decides to cut oil production). So I do think a lot of people have been led to believe Gulen is one of the good guys regardless of his specific stance in internal Turkish politics.

Yes, I can sense that. And it's no coincidence, because Gülen is someone that received strong CIA backing throughout the years. He's one of the many puppets they've used to meddle in with things in regions across the globe. Of course they're gonna protect him, he's "their guy". (And I hope that CIA's positions in supporting dark people in the past for their own agenda is apparent enough for me not to explain it, you have things like making Taliban happen in Afghanistan by supporting the Mujahideen against Soviets, supporting Saddam against Iran, feeding the rebels against Assad to make way for groups like ISIS and so on)

The business is very, very shady. Gülen's strong presence in the Turkish politics goes back to the 80s. He was one of the few figures that went through the 80's coup unscathed despite being convicted prior. Turgut Özal, who was specifically trained in the U.S. and worked in the U.S. came into power after the coup, and he recognized Gülen as an ally. Gülen also went through the 1997's post-modern coup against Islamist government unscathed, despite the massive crackdown on Islamists across the nation. The reception for that post-modern coup was one of the main reasons why Erdoğan's newly formed party AKP received such a strong backing, and guess who Erdoğan and AKP were allied with when they came into power? Gülen.

The corruption in the Turkish Army to promote Gülenist officers goes back to the 90s. The questions for military school entrance exams were stolen and an influx of Gülenists entered the military. During mid 2000s, AKP and Gülenists co-operated to stage the Ergenekon and Sledgehammer cases to cleanse the army from secularist officers and promoted Gülenist officers to stronger positions. Many secularist, social democratic officers were jailed unjustly, some of them even passed away while in jail. One of them killed himself because he couldn't take the injustice any longer.

I could go on and on about the details of all this, but it'd take too much of an effort. The fact of the matter is Gülen is a religious fundamentalist charlatan, who became the puppet for United States' bulls**t "moderate Islam" project. He's one of the leading reasons why Turkey has gone down the drain.

I'd take issue with that characterization of the United States' culpability for the rise of ISIS but there's no point getting into a long debate/argument on that stuff.

What I would say is that I hope you know not everyone in this country wants to be over there continually meddling in that region. There's a sizable contingent of the population (myself included) that would just as soon get out and let the locals sort it out themselves. But there's this whole National Security establishment group think writ large going on. Anyone who doesn't fall in line with the basic premise that the United States should be involved in every regional hot spot on the globe isn't taken seriously. The media accordingly mostly treats those who don't like cranks paving the way for the next 9/11 (or worse). Stuff like [generically] 'support for Israel' and fighting terror to keep Americans "safe" are almost threshold questions that every candidate has to co-sign to even have a chance in order to be taken seriously in elections. As a result we're sort of stuck in this cycle. Eventually it'll have to come to an end.

Thanks for all of the information, breaking down the political landscape and weighing on the severity of the situation.

I need to amend the news sites that I follow, because I'm seemingly out of touch.

in a nutshell, enes kanter is a proud member of religion based terrorist organization. the ultimate purpose of theirs is to change turkey into an islamic country which possibly be governed by sharia rules. They have been growing inside the critical fields of state, like military, national defense forces, intelligence agency, juidicary, etc gradually but with solid grounds and processes for over 30-40 years.
Enes kanter is a traitor. He cant step over turkish soil any longer. He is an exile from now on. He will be arrested if he attempts to go to turkey. He defends the military coup which caused 250 deaths because that terrorist organization was the behind of it for sure. shame on him.

baldur wrote:in a nutshell, enes kanter is a proud member of religion based terrorist organization. the ultimate purpose of theirs is to change turkey into an islamic country which possibly be governed by sharia rules. They have been growing inside the critical fields of state, like military, national defense forces, intelligence agency, juidicary, etc gradually but with solid grounds and processes for over 30-40 years.
Enes kanter is a traitor. He cant step over turkish soil any longer. He is an exile from now on. He will be arrested if he attempts to go to turkey. He defends the military coup which caused 250 deaths because that terrorist organization was the behind of it for sure. shame on him.

Actually he didn't, he posted the below image from Gulen's twitter account which condemns the coup.

I personally don't believe he is a traitor, he is just another product of the Gulen schools and he is not the actual guilty one here, the previous governments of Turkey which thought that Gulen was a "moderate" and tolerated him and the current government of Turkey which thought that Gulen was "on their side" and nurtured him are the real guilty ones. Funnily though everybody is OK with hitting a brainwashed 24 year old boy while nobody questions why all these governments of Turkey were so "naive" in believing Gulen. (Hint: It's all emotional )

I did not want to post the twitter image here because I can't tolerate his face anymore ( he looks like Waldorf, the old grumpy guy from Muppet Show, doesn't he?)
https://pbs.twimg.com/media/CnfeiMJWAAAQBmX.jpg