Billy Donovan

[slick_watts]

Dude are you kidding me? Ibaka isn't on the same planet as Carmelo Anthony. He literally averages about half the points Carmelo has for his entire career and Carmelo is an all star. Ibaka is a nice player but his inability to create his own offense and complete lack of any type of a post game whatsoever along with his penchant for going long periods of time in games where he just disappears completely eliminates him from any type of legitimate comparison with an all star like Anthony.

do you value defense and offense equally?

Nobody who understands basketball does.....certainly not the guys writing the checks or drafting the players, though who knows? Next year's draft class is supposed to be really good, maybe it will be alot of defensive studs with limited offensive games!

didn't i warn you to stay in your lane? is your name sleestak33?

[hardenASG13]

do you value defense and offense equally?

Nobody who understands basketball does.....certainly not the guys writing the checks or drafting the players, though who knows? Next year's draft class is supposed to be really good, maybe it will be alot of defensive studs with limited offensive games!

didn't i warn you to stay in your lane? is your name sleestak33?

I chose to ignore that 'warning.' My point speaks for itself, how about you counter it? defense is alot more effort than skill, relative to offense, especially when basically every player is a world class athlete in the NBA.

[Dadouv47]

This is not about overall talent. Of course Carmelo Anthony is a way more talented player, but Ibaka was such a a fundamental piece to our previous roster. We needed his defense badly, and he was still able to shoot middle range with high % (before declining). Looks like the way he protected the paint so many years has been underrated. Ibaka also allowed us to play small ball with him at the 5.

But sure, if I don't have two elite scorers in GOATbrook and cupcake, I would choose Carmelo in my team.

Looks like the Harden vs Ibaka debate all over again. But in this case it's different : we are comparing old Melo against Ibaka at his best.

[M2J]

It's really crazy that Ibaka has never been an All-star. He deserved it.

But to be fair to some arguments, the fact that Ibaka got a way better trade package has nothing to do with it. Ibaka is still young (even if on decline) and didn't have a no-trade clause, while Melo salary is more than the double of previous Ibaka contract and only accepted to join 2-3 teams with very limited trade assets.

Yeah, Ibaka literally got more in a trade than Paul George. I don't think that's a good measure for ability.

Yeah that was unfair on my part.

I will say however it does show a bit of what GMs think he's worth. Even with the NTC Melo didn't get more than a cap dump. Either way, if he had more value he'd have gotten some value.

He wouldn't go to a contender that gave up his ability to contend, so he had a lot to say about that. If he opened it up to everyone...things would look different.

What he got traded for doesn't show a thing about what GM's think of him. Just stop. When he opened himself up for a trade, literally every contending team put together some package that they hoped he would accept along with the Knicks. That shows what GM's think of him

[spearsy23]

Yeah, Ibaka literally got more in a trade than Paul George. I don't think that's a good measure for ability.

Yeah that was unfair on my part.

I will say however it does show a bit of what GMs think he's worth. Even with the NTC Melo didn't get more than a cap dump. Either way, if he had more value he'd have gotten some value.

He wouldn't go to a contender that gave up his ability to contend, so he had a lot to say about that. If he opened it up to everyone...things would look different.

What he got traded for doesn't show a thing about what GM's think of him. Just stop. When he opened himself up for a trade, literally every contending team put together some package that they hoped he would accept along with the Knicks. That shows what GM's think of him

There's a middle ground here. Houston wouldn't give up more than Ryan anderson, we wouldn't give up more than trash and that was the best offer. If Melo was actually still a superstar caliber player then he would be in houston or Cleveland.

[bondom34]

Yep. What he ssid

[M2J]

Yeah that was unfair on my part.

I will say however it does show a bit of what GMs think he's worth. Even with the NTC Melo didn't get more than a cap dump. Either way, if he had more value he'd have gotten some value.

He wouldn't go to a contender that gave up his ability to contend, so he had a lot to say about that. If he opened it up to everyone...things would look different.

What he got traded for doesn't show a thing about what GM's think of him. Just stop. When he opened himself up for a trade, literally every contending team put together some package that they hoped he would accept along with the Knicks. That shows what GM's think of him

There's a middle ground here. Houston wouldn't give up more than Ryan anderson, we wouldn't give up more than trash and that was the best offer. If Melo was actually still a superstar caliber player then he would be in houston or Cleveland.

Its not that straight forward, due to this input in what he wanted to go play with, IE only contenders...therefore a centerpiece talent would not be an option for him to remove his clause, such as an Eric Gordon

But you win

[spearsy23]

He wouldn't go to a contender that gave up his ability to contend, so he had a lot to say about that. If he opened it up to everyone...things would look different.

What he got traded for doesn't show a thing about what GM's think of him. Just stop. When he opened himself up for a trade, literally every contending team put together some package that they hoped he would accept along with the Knicks. That shows what GM's think of him

There's a middle ground here. Houston wouldn't give up more than Ryan anderson, we wouldn't give up more than trash and that was the best offer. If Melo was actually still a superstar caliber player then he would be in houston or Cleveland.

Its not that straight forward, due to this input in what he wanted to go play with, IE only contenders...therefore a centerpiece talent would not be an option for him to remove his clause, such as an Eric Gordon

But you win

Eric Gordon isn't a centerpiece talent and wasnt on the table. Alex Abrines wasnt on the table, terrance ferguson, cedi osman, etc. Paul George was in a very similar situation and got a lottery pick one year removed and a very good player. If Melo was still a star level guy the Knicks would've gotten a prospect back.

[bondom34]

He wouldn't go to a contender that gave up his ability to contend, so he had a lot to say about that. If he opened it up to everyone...things would look different.

What he got traded for doesn't show a thing about what GM's think of him. Just stop. When he opened himself up for a trade, literally every contending team put together some package that they hoped he would accept along with the Knicks. That shows what GM's think of him

There's a middle ground here. Houston wouldn't give up more than Ryan anderson, we wouldn't give up more than trash and that was the best offer. If Melo was actually still a superstar caliber player then he would be in houston or Cleveland.

Its not that straight forward, due to this input in what he wanted to go play with, IE only contenders...therefore a centerpiece talent would not be an option for him to remove his clause, such as an Eric Gordon

But you win

Again though, even those teams wouldn't part with value.

[M2J]

You're right a 2017 allstar isn't a star level guy. . .worth nothing. His trade situation is exactly like Paul George's who must've had a NTC as well. Actually if he did, he likely wouldn't be here and Anthony would be elsewhere of his choosing. Age will always be a factor in trade valve, hence the idea of trading a PG13 for a pick that likely won't amount to anything but hope, though age doesnt' necessarily affect current on court value. . .the actual topic

Lol you both just admitted the idea of what he was traded for has no impact on his value vs Serge's (the silly nostalgic original discussion) then turn around and double down on it. You clearly have no idea of the Knicks situation or overall positive relationship w/Anthony. He's on your team, why contradict yourselves? What do you win? You're not fans of his, but again what do you win by pretending like you've had pillow talk about trades with Presti or Moreys? It's baffling.

[spearsy23]

You're right an allstar isn't a star level guy. . .worth nothing

37 year old Kobe bryant was an all-star and shot 36% from the floor.

[M2J]

You're right an allstar isn't a star level guy. . .worth nothing

37 year old Kobe bryant was an all-star and shot 36% from the floor.

37 year old Kobe was pretty decent when playing, but always in a suit. No relation. Stop changing topics.

[spearsy23]

You're right an allstar isn't a star level guy. . .worth nothing

37 year old Kobe bryant was an all-star and shot 36% from the floor.

37 year old Kobe was pretty decent when playing, but always in a suit. No relation. Stop changing topics.

You're joking, right?

[M2J]

Actually, I was a little. . .but I said decent. And injuries are typically is the reason players retire...want to switch topics again?

[sleestak33]

2016's Ibaka was clearly better than today's Melo. Ask Popovich what he thought about having to play against Ibaka

Still, I believe Carmelo MAY be a better fit with this current roster (we need offensive weapons with Roberson and no cupcake).

Dude are you kidding me? Ibaka isn't on the same planet as Carmelo Anthony. He literally averages about half the points Carmelo has for his entire career and Carmelo is an all star. Ibaka is a nice player but his inability to create his own offense and complete lack of any type of a post game whatsoever along with his penchant for going long periods of time in games where he just disappears completely eliminates him from any type of legitimate comparison with an all star like Anthony.

do you value defense and offense equally?

To truly demonstrate the value of individual defensive prowess I will point you in the direction of James Harden who is widely considered to be one of the worst defenders in the NBA. You can even watch some his hilarious moments on "Shaqtin a fool" where he just allows guys to fly right by him. Harden got runner up MVP in the league last year and led his team to the 2nd round of the playoffs so that tells you how valuable defense is right now in the NBA. This is why I always argued that Kanter should start and play huge minutes because when you're an elite scorer like these guys you are almost always going to account for way more points than you're ever going to give up defensively. This is why if you go back decades in the NBA and look at past champions every single one of them has 2 or 3 elite scorers and those guys are the ones that win championships. Defense always has its place in any sport but in the NBA it's more of how good you are against pick and rolls and high screens and team defense because you don't get to guard anybody one on one.