2017-2018 OKC Thunder Regular Season Thread part one: The Fellowship for A Ring

[Andre Roberstan]

I’m guessing sleestack forgot his password.

Exactly what i was thinking!

It's not sleestak, not unless he suddenly learned how to use a proxy.

[Thabo Sefolosha]

Read on Twitter

[slick_watts]

in a league where so many starting pg are 20+ usage and high scoring efficiency, players like russell westbrook and john wall who can't shoot look like fossils.

stephen curry, kyrie irving, darren collison, chris paul, damian lillard, kyle lowry, jamal murray, george hill, kemba walker, jrue holiday.

all those players have a ts% of 57% or higher. they can all make threes.

comparatively, russell westbrook and john wall are both near or at the bottom among starting pg scoring efficiency. yeah yeah high usage, blah blah, but these guys have been hovering around 51% all season.

is sam presti lagging behind league trends as usual? signing a starting point guard who lacks one of the crucial skills of today's nba to a $200 million extension? the FT crunch has hit westbrook hard in particular because he can't make up for it like harden or others can with just high volume three point shooting.

[ThunderBolt]

Yes, Presti has poorly constructed this roster. No doubt about it. If we imagine that Presti wanted to rebuild and trade russ, what team would even want him? Cleveland is the only team with a decent asset that might be looking to do a quick rebuild.

[bondom34]

Yeah of all the things you can say the criticism that Westbrook doesn't fit the modern nba isn't one. Hos offense have been better and he's done more for them than almost every name there. We get it, down year. But no, he's still that good. And on a semi related note I can't wait until Houston fizzles out in the playoffs for the fan meltdown.

Also should there be a new thread? This is way over 100.

[Old Man Game]

in a league where so many starting pg are 20+ usage and high scoring efficiency, players like russell westbrook and john wall who can't shoot look like fossils.

stephen curry, kyrie irving, darren collison, chris paul, damian lillard, kyle lowry, jamal murray, george hill, kemba walker, jrue holiday.

all those players have a ts% of 57% or higher. they can all make threes.

comparatively, russell westbrook and john wall are both near or at the bottom among starting pg scoring efficiency. yeah yeah high usage, blah blah, but these guys have been hovering around 51% all season.

is sam presti lagging behind league trends as usual? signing a starting point guard who lacks one of the crucial skills of today's nba to a $200 million extension? the FT crunch has hit westbrook hard in particular because he can't make up for it like harden or others can with just high volume three point shooting.

We are talking about the guy who paid both Kendrick Perkins and Enes Kanter. If there's been one hallmark (beyond the drafting success) of his tenure its paying guys he shouldn't have. So if (big "if") Russ ends up being that category, it'll be true to form.

[Old Man Game]

Yeah of all the things you can say the criticism that Westbrook doesn't fit the modern nba isn't one. Hos offense have been better and he's done more for them than almost every name there. We get it, down year. But no, he's still that good. And on a semi related note I can't wait until Houston fizzles out in the playoffs for the fan meltdown.

Also should there be a new thread? This is way over 100.

Why do we ever start a new thread on this? I don't get it. People generally only read the last few pages anyway.

[slick_watts]

imo defenses have adapted hard on guards who can't make threes. wall and westbrook have both looked a step slow otherwise, but this change in defensive philosophy league wide. wall and westbrook are being baited into taking jump shots.

it's less and less common for a high usage guard to be a poor three point shooter and remain efficient. even more so a point guard. there's hardly any 20+ usage guards shooting worse than league average from three, and only a handful below 30% like westbrook is. dennis schroeder and ish smith the only two. and ben simmons. among all guards shooting worse than league average from three, only about 1 in 6 are league average ts this year or better. i'd argue this is a growing consequence of the league favoring high volume shooting.

westbrook's game offensively is a clear departure from where the nba has been heading.

[Old Man Game]

Did everyone see that tweet that was making the rounds last night, "Presti drafted 3 MVPs but only managed to keep the worst one?"

I was crying in my beer.

[bondom34]

Except Westbook led offenses have been better than Irving and Lillard ones still. Defenses haven't adapted. Jeez.

[bondom34]

Did everyone see that tweet that was making the rounds last night, "Presti drafted 3 MVPs but only managed to keep the worst one?"

I was crying in my beer.

2Nd worst.

These tweets didn't come around until Russ had a down year. Would have loved to see this in 2016 when Houston was struggling and Harden wasn't 3rd team all NBA. Interesting timing.

[bondom34]

Did everyone see that tweet that was making the rounds last night, "Presti drafted 3 MVPs but only managed to keep the worst one?"

I was crying in my beer.

2Nd worst.

These tweets didn't come around until Russ had a down year. Would have loved to see this in 2016 when Houston was struggling and Harden wasn't 3rd team all NBA. Interesting timing.

[hardenASG13]

in a league where so many starting pg are 20+ usage and high scoring efficiency, players like russell westbrook and john wall who can't shoot look like fossils.

stephen curry, kyrie irving, darren collison, chris paul, damian lillard, kyle lowry, jamal murray, george hill, kemba walker, jrue holiday.

all those players have a ts% of 57% or higher. they can all make threes.

comparatively, russell westbrook and john wall are both near or at the bottom among starting pg scoring efficiency. yeah yeah high usage, blah blah, but these guys have been hovering around 51% all season.

is sam presti lagging behind league trends as usual? signing a starting point guard who lacks one of the crucial skills of today's nba to a $200 million extension? the FT crunch has hit westbrook hard in particular because he can't make up for it like harden or others can with just high volume three point shooting.

Yea averaging 25/9/10 while shooting his normal averages, and 4 3pfga a game is just awful. I mean, aside from curry, none of those 'New wave' players you list are more accomplished than Westbrook, most aren't close (maybe kyrie).

Yes it's be nice if He could hit the 3 at a higher clip. It'd also be nice if his shooting guards and bench could do so, like basically every other NBA team. He gets to the rim, and puts more pressure on defenses, better than probably any PG in the league, and can also post up whereas most pgs don't even have that in their game at all.

I am with you on the presti bashing though. The guy is a joke. He drafted KD (no brainer), harden ( no brainer imo), Westbrook (got lucky- no way he thought hed have the drive to become this good....he was being picked to be a defensive playmaker next to kd and Jeff green) and hit a nice pick on ibaka. The coaches have been so similarly awful you have to think he's involved on that from a scheme perspective. Lets not talk about his trades, and has made several awful signings (perk, singler, etc.)Rarely if ever builds an NBA caliber bench, and you're right is generally behind trends (non shooters on the wing, building to beat the 2011 lakers until 2015). Hes traded all their first round picks in the near future, and they have no bench or salary. He made the Paul George trade (no brainer, despite how well oladipo and sabonis have looked) and the melo trade (good idea at the time....hes lost a step unfortunately). Presti is so overrated. But he doesn't need to bring in a Darren Collison to replace Westbrook. Settle down, slick. They just need a NBA caliber bench, with some proven players on it, like basically all other playoff teams.

[slick_watts]

Yea averaging 25/9/10 while shooting his normal averages, and 4 3pfga a game is just awful. I mean, aside from curry, none of those 'New wave' players you list are more accomplished than Westbrook, most aren't close (maybe kyrie).

no, westbrook is not at his normal averages. his scoring efficiency is the lowest it has been since his sophomore season.

Yes it's be nice if He could hit the 3 at a higher clip. It'd also be nice if his shooting guards and bench could do so, like basically every other NBA team.

yes, we have a problem with poor three point shooters taking threes. between westbrook, ferguson, huestis, grant and roberson that's about 1/3 of our total three point attempts we're making at < 30%. westbrook by far the biggest offender by volume, of course.

He gets to the rim

he does, and he's attempting a lot of shots there this year. but it's not making up for his drop-off in other areas, and his FTr like most guards this year following the "harden rule" is down. the lower FTr combined with his mysteriously low FT% has been yet another obstacle as he is making fewer free throws per possession than any year since his sophomore season.

and can also post up whereas most pgs don't even have that in their game at all.

westbrook is at 0.84 ppp on post-ups this year which isn't atrocious but it's not exactly lighting the world on fire, either.

But he doesn't need to bring in a Darren Collison to replace Westbrook. Settle down, slick. They just need a NBA caliber bench, with some proven players on it, like basically all other playoff teams.

the starters have been bad too without andre roberson, though.

i'm not suggesting that westbrook should be replaced with darren collison. he's better than darren collison. i'm suggesting that westbrook is struggling on offense in part because of an ongoing paradigm shift that he does not possess the skills to take advantage of.

[Andre Roberstan]

Except Westbook led offenses have been better than Irving and Lillard ones still. Defenses haven't adapted. Jeez.

Despite Kyrie's way better individual efficiency, Boston's offensive numbers are worse than last year IIRC. Interesting case study there in individual efficiency vs. team efficiency—I think people generally overrate individual efficiency unless you're talking about high-volume playmakers.

[slick_watts]

Except Westbook led offenses have been better than Irving and Lillard ones still. Defenses haven't adapted. Jeez.

i'm talking about westbrook as an individual, not his team. i'm talking about this season, not last season. there are major differences in league trends from last year to this year alone that i believe must be part of the conversation. league 3Pr is way up from just last year, and FTr is down. bad for players like russell westbrook.

[RalphSampsonJr]

in a league where so many starting pg are 20+ usage and high scoring efficiency, players like russell westbrook and john wall who can't shoot look like fossils.

stephen curry, kyrie irving, darren collison, chris paul, damian lillard, kyle lowry, jamal murray, george hill, kemba walker, jrue holiday.

all those players have a ts% of 57% or higher. they can all make threes.

comparatively, russell westbrook and john wall are both near or at the bottom among starting pg scoring efficiency. yeah yeah high usage, blah blah, but these guys have been hovering around 51% all season.

is sam presti lagging behind league trends as usual? signing a starting point guard who lacks one of the crucial skills of today's nba to a $200 million extension? the FT crunch has hit westbrook hard in particular because he can't make up for it like harden or others can with just high volume three point shooting.

Yea averaging 25/9/10 while shooting his normal averages, and 4 3pfga a game is just awful. I mean, aside from curry, none of those 'New wave' players you list are more accomplished than Westbrook, most aren't close (maybe kyrie).

Yes it's be nice if He could hit the 3 at a higher clip. It'd also be nice if his shooting guards and bench could do so, like basically every other NBA team. He gets to the rim, and puts more pressure on defenses, better than probably any PG in the league, and can also post up whereas most pgs don't even have that in their game at all.

I am with you on the presti bashing though. The guy is a joke. He drafted KD (no brainer), harden ( no brainer imo), Westbrook (got lucky- no way he thought hed have the drive to become this good....he was being picked to be a defensive playmaker next to kd and Jeff green) and hit a nice pick on ibaka. The coaches have been so similarly awful you have to think he's involved on that from a scheme perspective. Lets not talk about his trades, and has made several awful signings (perk, singler, etc.)Rarely if ever builds an NBA caliber bench, and you're right is generally behind trends (non shooters on the wing, building to beat the 2011 lakers until 2015). Hes traded all their first round picks in the near future, and they have no bench or salary. He made the Paul George trade (no brainer, despite how well oladipo and sabonis have looked) and the melo trade (good idea at the time....hes lost a step unfortunately). Presti is so overrated. But he doesn't need to bring in a Darren Collison to replace Westbrook. Settle down, slick. They just need a NBA caliber bench, with some proven players on it, like basically all other playoff teams.

I have a little sympathy for Sam as things have not turned out well even when they looked like good moves at the time. (this season is a prime example!)

IMO Sams worst decision was firing Brooks when KD was heading into his final year of his contract.
Creating uncertainty when your superstar player is heading towards FA was a silly move.

[Andre Roberstan]

New thread up per Dom's suggestion.