Around the NBA: 2017—2018

[spearsy23]

obviously, the warriors want their offense to perform better. obviously, kevin durant as one of the offense's figureheads has some influence on their struggles. my problem is that kevin durant has been more or less as productive in this series as he was in the regular season while several of his teammates have not been, but it's kevin durant getting all this blame.

So would you agree that Kevin Durant is very good at scoring the basketball in isolation, but the rest of the warriors are significantly less good at it?

i'd have to look. to be honest, i'm not sure how good curry is, but i imagine he's quite good also, albeit less prolific.

But we can agree that all of the warriors save Durant will be less effective on the whole isolating than running their system? Durant is one of the greatest scorers ever, there's no doubt he can play outside the confines of an offense. If he removed himself from the offense, one of the greatest offenses of all time, and that offense then sputters, does it not follow that he could be hurting the team's offense despite his individual efficiency? To be clear, he's not playing with Ibaka/Perkins/Roberson anymore, guys who are going to be bad offensive players no matter what you do with them.

[spearsy23]

yes. westbrook was horrific in the jazz series on both ends. he deserved a lot of blame in that series. if kd was slumming somewhere around 54% ts like he did against dallas that one time i'd be with all of you on this. but he's not. he's been productive.

So ts% is the ultimate measure of a player. Got it.

for high usage scorers, is there a better way to measure their effectiveness?

We're back to circular reasoning. "Durant's game is scoring so we can't judge his effectiveness outside of his scoring numbers." You've effectively created a set of criteria where we can only focus on a player's strongest ability, and judge them based on how well they do that one thing. In this case why do we ever discuss Westbrook's true shooting, his primary value is in passing and rebounding.

[slick_watts]

But we can agree that all of the warriors save Durant will be less effective on the whole isolating than running their system? Durant is one of the greatest scorers ever, there's no doubt he can play outside the confines of an offense. If he removed himself from the offense, one of the greatest offenses of all time, and that offense then sputters, does it not follow that he could be hurting the team's offense despite his individual efficiency? To be clear, he's not playing with Ibaka/Perkins/Roberson anymore, guys who are going to be bad offensive players no matter what you do with them.

first lets be clear on one thing- the warriors offense isn't that much better if at all than the rockets. with their best units on the floor this year they were about even. the warriors are an ethereal offensive team regardless of what kevin durant is doing, but relative to their current opposition they are not.

could be? yes. i can agree with 'could be'. but i think it's an extraordinary claim to make that kevin durant bears the greatest responsibility for the offense struggling when he's really the only one consistently producing. my thoughts are more along the lines of kizz i think, that the rockets have made particular adjustments the last couple of games that hamper what the warriors are doing and want to do. christ, we were able to do that in 2015-16 in the wcf to some degree and our defense was way worse than houston's is.

imo, more credit should be given to houston.

[slick_watts]

"Durant's game is scoring so we can't judge his effectiveness outside of his scoring numbers."

i'm not saying that at all. the criticism of kevin durant has been he's using too many possessions for himself. yet, he's scoring efficiently on those possessions. do you have a better way to evaluate this?

You've effectively created a set of criteria where we can only focus on a player's strongest ability, and judge them based on how well they do that one thing. In this case why do we ever discuss Westbrook's true shooting, his primary value is in passing and rebounding.

i don't think you can construct an argument that would support westbrook, the all-time usage king, having a greater impact on anything besides his scoring possessions. you're being ridiculous here. you want to conflate my thoughts on westbrook and create a logical inconsistency that does not exist. i've long debated with bonnie and others here on the relative value of westbrook's scoring and it is the same as it is with kevin durant.

[ThunderBolt]

If George comes back this team has a punchers chance and they would have two big time punches in Westbrook and Groege. Its just a matter of putting guys around them that can shoot and defend.

I don’t believe in a punchers chance in a best of seven series. Maybe if the nba were like March madness.

[Old Man Game]

Welp, looked like Houston had them. Ultimately, just couldn't weather the loss of CP3. What a shame. Will people discount the Warriors title this year because of an unfortunate injury they way they try to with Lebron's East Con. title?

[floppymoose]

"Durant's game is scoring so we can't judge his effectiveness outside of his scoring numbers."

i'm not saying that at all. the criticism of kevin durant has been he's using too many possessions for himself. yet, he's scoring efficiently on those possessions. do you have a better way to evaluate this?

It's a question I've thought about before. Back when GS sucked and our version of KD was Corey Freakin Maggette, there was the same question. Maggette had stretches where he was efficient. But he always seemed to suck the life out of the team. And while his offensive efficiency was good, the team's efficiency with him on the floor was not.

If your play style results in efficient scoring for you but depresses the efficiency of the other possessions enough... maybe that's what was being perceived. Regardless, he seemed to dial back his tendencies just enough for a successful outcome. He has to walk a fine line. GS needs him to be the aggressive iso scorer when a possession has broken down, but to be a cog in the Warriors offensive machine when it hasn't. It's a challenging task.

[Pillendreher]

Read on Twitter

[retrobro90]

This Colangelo twitter stuff is wild. One thing even Presti haters can admit is that our guy is incredibly tight lipped compared to other FOs. Even if there ever was/is turmoil inside our org we'd be the last to hear about it.

[Pillendreher]

This Colangelo twitter stuff is wild. One thing even Presti haters can admit is that our guy is incredibly tight lipped compared to other FOs. Even if there ever was/is turmoil inside our org we'd be the last to hear about it.

Presti is smarter than this. He's using beat writers as burner accounts.

[slick_watts]

This Colangelo twitter stuff is wild. One thing even Presti haters can admit is that our guy is incredibly tight lipped compared to other FOs. Even if there ever was/is turmoil inside our org we'd be the last to hear about it.

that's not a skill that sam presti has, that's the relative ineptitude of okc sports reporting. also, any of the people with access who start to demonstrate their own opinions end up leaving.

[Andre Roberstan]

This Colangelo twitter stuff is wild. One thing even Presti haters can admit is that our guy is incredibly tight lipped compared to other FOs. Even if there ever was/is turmoil inside our org we'd be the last to hear about it.

that's not a skill that sam presti has, that's the relative ineptitude of okc sports reporting. also, any of the people with access who start to demonstrate their own opinions end up leaving.

I'm gonna have to disagree with you about that—it's been the case at least part of the time with national stuff as well. Remember the draft where Woj tweeted almost every pick and OKC was one of the few he didn't?

[spearsy23]

Jr Smith might be the stupidest person in the NBA.

[bondom34]

I haven't been this mad at officiating in a while. At least the Warriors have help.

[spearsy23]

I haven't been this mad at officiating in a while. At least the Warriors have help.

Kd can't win without these cats.

[bondom34]

I haven't been this mad at officiating in a while. At least the Warriors have help.

Kd can't win without these cats.

Never before did I question the actual integrity of the NBA, until now. I'm pissed.

[Dadouv47]

Jr Smith and the refs were great tonight. Feel so bad for Lebron. GSW is the luckiest team I have ever seen

[Osirus89]

JR Smith is a true success story. To be as functional as he is with his obvious mental handicap is inspiring to say the least.

I would have smacked the taste out of his mouth on national TV. ESPN could call me a bad teammate all they want. He just cost his team a chance to beat the Warriors on the road in the finals. He needs to be put on blast.

[spearsy23]

Gsw fans are definitely worse than Houston.

[bondom34]

Yeah Houston's are outnumbered and the Dubs are just obnoxious. Houston's are more insecure.