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This is my first attempt at posting a topic, so please bear with me.

There seems to be a popular and growing consensus that Donavan is a major (if not the main) problem for the Thunder right now. I would like to discuss this issue and see if we can reach some conclusions. Some things to consider that could also be contributing factors to the teams early struggles:
1. Integrating 4 new rotation players in a shortened camp (2 of which are high usage starters that are used to being #1 options)
2. Injuries to several rotation players that limited their playing time in the preseason.
3. A complete lack of even a serviceable “big” outside of Adams (sorry Dakari)

Now, the coaching concerns:
1. Questionable/inconsistent rotations
2. Roberson’s diminishing minutes (is he hurt or is it something else?) It seems odd they would pay him and then stop playing him.
3. The glaring lack of any type of creativity with the offensive sets
4. Accountability

If the conclusion is that Donovan is truly the problem, does Presti/Owenership pull the plug in-season? If so, then what? If things really start to get ugly, would they consider blowing this thing up? I know it is very early, I am just trying to get a better sense of what all of you think is happening and what some potential solutions could be.

I would appreciate any feedback you guys can give.

I would wait end of December/January before making a decision.

Why to keep Donovan?
- I still give him a lot of credit for our success in the 2016 playoffs
- I don't see a clear candidate to take his role
- I believe continuity is very important
- We don't have such a great locker room leader like Lebron James was when they fired David Blatt for Lu to make an easy switch.
- Rotations aren't that bad (besides Roberson stuff). Actually our second unit is the only positive thing so far this season.
- It takes time to develop chemistry between 3 great players. Miami heat was 10-9 or something like that in the beginning of 2011.

Why to fire?
- I never saw anything great from Donovan on the offensive end. He was supposed to be one of the best offensive coaches in the world but he suck.
- If he's really letting Roberson on the bench for BB reasons, then he's really stupid
- I think he's soft. I don't know if he has what it takes to have a voice in the locker room.
- We should be way better on defense than we are. That's both on the players and on the coach.

PS : The more I watch the wizards, the more I miss Scott Brooks.

I really believe we miss some players with leadership personality. Someone like Perk, Draymond Green or whoever that can scream into the locker room and boost our team. I wish Nick Colisson was that guy but I don't believe it's his character.

It was clear that Donovan was in over his head his first season despite the team carrying him to the WCF. It became obvious last year that he is incapable of understanding which players he needs to play. I do not expect any change during the season unless they are not in the top 8 in the West around mid-season. If they are looking like they could miss the playoffs I expect a lot of roster changes, but I'm still not sure they would get rid of Donovan during the season.

To get to your points:
1) Every team had the same "shortened" camp and Minny who is plugging in Butler, Teague and Taj as three new starters just beat OKC twice. I'm not giving Donovan a pass when every team had the same camp.
2) If Roberson is hurt then Donovan has a small excuse for the defense being so bad. However, he said he played Huestis over Roberson for length not injury so I can only conclude Donovan is just too stupid to understand the NBA and needs to go back to college.
3) The lack of a second quality big is a concern, but he isn't even trying Dakari to see how that works. Instead he is putting players that have no chance at being competent at defense or rebounding.

Concerns:
1) Donovan has said in the past that he likes to mix up his rotations all year to "see what works". He doesn't think players need to get comfortable with a set rotation. I disagree, but I also know that it will not change.
2) I hope that he is hurt. Donovan had a chance to say that and instead said he played Huestis over Roberson for length. If Roberson suits up tonight I'm just chalking it up to Donovan getting worse at coaching.
3) You have three ball dominant iso players and you expect Donovan run something other than iso? He's not a good enough or strong enough coach to do that. Russ, Melo and PG will do what they want. Donovan doesn't have the balls/brains to develop an offense and then put his "big 3" on the bench when they go iso instead of running the offense.
4) It goes back to 3 and Donovan's lack of brains/balls to take control of the team.

I'm full in campaigning for his firing.
He is not a top15 coach, he is not a difference. I mean, probably none of us expects him to be on level of Brad Stevens. But we need at least top10 coach.

Is there available any great coach?

Zagor wrote:Is there available any great coach?

No. There is no one obvious to bring in that would change anything. They should have stuck with Brooks.

He’s a huge reason Durant isn’t here.

donovan doesn't seem to give much credence to past performance of lineups or player combinations when making rotation decisions, instead treating each game (or, playoff series) as a separate entity.

this is probably my biggest problem with him, and it's why he's so volatile with rotations. almost like a lineup hot hand theory. 'coaching by feel'.

Knrstz wrote:He’s a huge reason Durant isn’t here.

How do you know that? This is bull****. If cupcake wanted Donovan fired before resigning, he wouldn't be our coach anymore.

Kizz Fastfists wrote:

Zagor wrote:Is there available any great coach?

No. There is no one obvious to bring in that would change anything. They should have stuck with Brooks.

Well of course there are better options out there. We just don’t know who they are. I’m sure there a several assistants around the league that would do a better job.

Dadouv47 wrote:

Knrstz wrote:He’s a huge reason Durant isn’t here.

How do you know that? This is bull****. If cupcake wanted Donovan fired before resigning, he wouldn't be our coach anymore.

Durant said so. It’s one of the few things he has said since he left that I believe.

/photo/1?

Yes, he is.

Knrstz wrote:

Dadouv47 wrote:

Knrstz wrote:He’s a huge reason Durant isn’t here.

How do you know that? This is bull****. If cupcake wanted Donovan fired before resigning, he wouldn't be our coach anymore.

Durant said so. It’s one of the few things he has said since he left that I believe.

Then you are naive. Cupcake is trying to find every excuse he can to justify his pussy move. Do you really think Presti would have kept Donovan if he knew he was an issue for cupcake? Come on... He would have fired everyone if cupcake wanted.

And you should blame Presti, not Donovan. He's the one that decided to make a coaching change when cupcake was on a contract year.

That's nonsense to me. It doesn't mean that Donovan is a good coach but blaming Donovan for cupcake leaving is pathetic.

slick_watts wrote:donovan doesn't seem to give much credence to past performance of lineups or player combinations when making rotation decisions, instead treating each game (or, playoff series) as a separate entity.

this is probably my biggest problem with him, and it's why he's so volatile with rotations. almost like a lineup hot hand theory. 'coaching by feel'.

There, that is what I couldn’t put my finger on, “lineup hot hand theory” that’s a perfect way to describe it. Often he wont even go back to a lineup that was effective in the same game.

Dadouv47 wrote:

Knrstz wrote:

Dadouv47 wrote:
How do you know that’? This is bull****. If cupcake wanted Donovan fired before resigning, he wouldn't be our coach anymore.

Durant said so. It’s one of the few things he has said since he left that I believe.

Then you are naive. Cupcake is trying to find every excuse for his pussy move. Do you really think Presti would have kept Donovan if he knew he was an issue for cupcake? Come on... He would have fired everyone if cupcake wanted.

And you should blame Presti, not Donovan. He's the one that decided to make a coaching change when cupcake was on a contract year.

That's nonsense to me. It doesn't mean that Donovan is a good coach but blaming Donovan for cupcake leaving is pathetic.

Cupcakes camp has thrown a lot of stuff out there since he left as to why he left. If you want to call me naive for believing what I think is the truth when he hid behind a twitter account, then I can call you blinded by hate for failing to see the truth. Durant had HIS reasons for leaving. Dononvan was one of them. That doesn’t mean he isn’t weak minded and not an alpha male etc.

Knrstz wrote:

Dadouv47 wrote:

Knrstz wrote:Durant said so. It’s one of the few things he has said since he left that I believe.

Then you are naive. Cupcake is trying to find every excuse for his pussy move. Do you really think Presti would have kept Donovan if he knew he was an issue for cupcake? Come on... He would have fired everyone if cupcake wanted.

And you should blame Presti, not Donovan. He's the one that decided to make a coaching change when cupcake was on a contract year.

That's nonsense to me. It doesn't mean that Donovan is a good coach but blaming Donovan for cupcake leaving is pathetic.

Cupcakes camp has thrown a lot of stuff out there since he left as to why he left. If you want to call me naive for believing what I think is the truth when he hid behind a twitter account, then I can call you blinded by hate for failing to see the truth.

Ok so you think inside an organisation a coach named Billy ***ing Donovan is almost as valuable as a franchise player?

It's pretty clear that any franchise player can get ANY coach (besides Popovich) fired if he wants.

If Westbrook says to Presti he can't take Donovan anymore, tomorrow he's fired.

Kizz Fastfists wrote:It was clear that Donovan was in over his head his first season despite the team carrying him to the WCF. It became obvious last year that he is incapable of understanding which players he needs to play. I do not expect any change during the season unless they are not in the top 8 in the West around mid-season. If they are looking like they could miss the playoffs I expect a lot of roster changes, but I'm still not sure they would get rid of Donovan during the season.

To get to your points:
1) Every team had the same "shortened" camp and Minny who is plugging in Butler, Teague and Taj as three new starters just beat OKC twice. I'm not giving Donovan a pass when every team had the same camp.
2) If Roberson is hurt then Donovan has a small excuse for the defense being so bad. However, he said he played Huestis over Roberson for length not injury so I can only conclude Donovan is just too stupid to understand the NBA and needs to go back to college.
3) The lack of a second quality big is a concern, but he isn't even trying Dakari to see how that works. Instead he is putting players that have no chance at being competent at defense or rebounding.

Concerns:
1) Donovan has said in the past that he likes to mix up his rotations all year to "see what works". He doesn't think players need to get comfortable with a set rotation. I disagree, but I also know that it will not change.
2) I hope that he is hurt. Donovan had a chance to say that and instead said he played Huestis over Roberson for length. If Roberson suits up tonight I'm just chalking it up to Donovan getting worse at coaching.
3) You have three ball dominant iso players and you expect Donovan run something other than iso? He's not a good enough or strong enough coach to do that. Russ, Melo and PG will do what they want. Donovan doesn't have the balls/brains to develop an offense and then put his "big 3" on the bench when they go iso instead of running the offense.
4) It goes back to 3 and Donovan's lack of brains/balls to take control of the team.

Fair point on the shortened camp issue. However I am not sure the T-Wolves are a good comparison. Thibs coached Butler and Taj previously so he already had a good idea of how to utilize them.

Dadouv47 wrote:

Knrstz wrote:

Dadouv47 wrote:
Then you are naive. Cupcake is trying to find every excuse for his pussy move. Do you really think Presti would have kept Donovan if he knew he was an issue for cupcake? Come on... He would have fired everyone if cupcake wanted.

And you should blame Presti, not Donovan. He's the one that decided to make a coaching change when cupcake was on a contract year.

That's nonsense to me. It doesn't mean that Donovan is a good coach but blaming Donovan for cupcake leaving is pathetic.

Cupcakes camp has thrown a lot of stuff out there since he left as to why he left. If you want to call me naive for believing what I think is the truth when he hid behind a twitter account, then I can call you blinded by hate for failing to see the truth.

Ok so you think inside an organisation a coach named Billy ***ing Donovan is almost as valuable as a franchise player?

It's pretty clear that any franchise player can get ANY coach (besides Popovich) fired if he wants.

If Westbrook says to Presti he can't take Donovan anymore, tomorrow he's fired.

I think Cupcake kept his mouth shut and harbored resentment at what he wanted changed. I’m sure If he had told Presti what he thought then Presti would have made a change. But he preferred to keep his feeling quite and run to GS and then let out his feelings. I’m not defending Durant but if you can put your emotions aside and talk realistically about this topic then it’s obvious that Durant probably want lying when he said what he did. We don’t think Dononvan is a good coach, why would he think differently?

Atomic Punk wrote:

Kizz Fastfists wrote:It was clear that Donovan was in over his head his first season despite the team carrying him to the WCF. It became obvious last year that he is incapable of understanding which players he needs to play. I do not expect any change during the season unless they are not in the top 8 in the West around mid-season. If they are looking like they could miss the playoffs I expect a lot of roster changes, but I'm still not sure they would get rid of Donovan during the season.

To get to your points:
1) Every team had the same "shortened" camp and Minny who is plugging in Butler, Teague and Taj as three new starters just beat OKC twice. I'm not giving Donovan a pass when every team had the same camp.
2) If Roberson is hurt then Donovan has a small excuse for the defense being so bad. However, he said he played Huestis over Roberson for length not injury so I can only conclude Donovan is just too stupid to understand the NBA and needs to go back to college.
3) The lack of a second quality big is a concern, but he isn't even trying Dakari to see how that works. Instead he is putting players that have no chance at being competent at defense or rebounding.

Concerns:
1) Donovan has said in the past that he likes to mix up his rotations all year to "see what works". He doesn't think players need to get comfortable with a set rotation. I disagree, but I also know that it will not change.
2) I hope that he is hurt. Donovan had a chance to say that and instead said he played Huestis over Roberson for length. If Roberson suits up tonight I'm just chalking it up to Donovan getting worse at coaching.
3) You have three ball dominant iso players and you expect Donovan run something other than iso? He's not a good enough or strong enough coach to do that. Russ, Melo and PG will do what they want. Donovan doesn't have the balls/brains to develop an offense and then put his "big 3" on the bench when they go iso instead of running the offense.
4) It goes back to 3 and Donovan's lack of brains/balls to take control of the team.

Fair point on the shortened camp issue. However I am not sure the T-Wolves are a good comparison. Thibs coached Butler and Taj previously so he already had a good idea of how to utilize them.

Agree. It's also way easier to incorporate 3 players that are doing the same role they were doing their entire career, while we are trying to incorporate 3 players that used to be ''the'' man on their teams and have to figure out a new role.

Dadouv47 wrote:I really believe we miss some players with leadership personality. Someone like Perk, Draymond Green or whoever that can scream into the locker room and boost our team. I wish Nick Colisson was that guy but I don't believe it's his character.

I tossed out the idea of taking a flyer on Perk earlier (not a very popular idea) and this is a big reason why. I was watching last night thinking, why doesn’t someone put KAT on his ass just once? Perk would have no problem with that.