Starting to understand the Carmelo talk now

[sleestak33]

Never really watched him play that much in his career (although I still remember him crushing my Sooners in the final 4...that still hurts) but the word on him has always been that he's a ball stopper on offense and he hurts to some degree any offensive flow throughout the game because he almost never looks to pass and now I'm really starting to understand it. Yes, he's a great one on one player and he scores most of the time he goes isolation but he does it so much and their offense completely stops moving once he gets it because they all know he's going to jack it up. For this team to reach its potential he's going to have to start taking better shots and actually looking to pass and keep the ball moving some and as of right now he doesn't look like he has any interest in that. It's funny that the Knicks are now 6-5 and OKC is 4-6 and the common denominator is him. He is only averaging 1.6 assists per game in 32 minutes and he's already jacked up 67 3 pointers in 10 games which is ridiculous. Can Billy Donovan get this guy to change his game to some degree because if he can't they're in for a long season.

[ThunderBolt]

Never really watched him play that much in his career (although I still remember him crushing my Sooners in the final 4...that still hurts) but the word on him has always been that he's a ball stopper on offense and he hurts to some degree any offensive flow throughout the game because he almost never looks to pass and now I'm really starting to understand it. Yes, he's a great one on one player and he scores most of the time he goes isolation but he does it so much and their offense completely stops moving once he gets it because they all know he's going to jack it up. For this team to reach its potential he's going to have to start taking better shots and actually looking to pass and keep the ball moving some and as of right now he doesn't look like he has any interest in that. It's funny that the Knicks are now 6-5 and OKC is 4-6 and the common denominator is him. He is only averaging 1.6 assists per game in 32 minutes and he's already jacked up 67 3 pointers in 10 games which is ridiculous. Can Billy Donovan get this guy to change his game to some degree because if he can't they're in for a long season.

As bondom posted in another thread, Sabonis and Kanter are passing more per minute with their new teams. That’s an indictment on Dononvan. Billy seems to be saying the right thing to the media but until there is any evidence on the court we won’t be above .500.

[Dadouv47]

He played trash last 3 games but if the rest of the team was playing ''ok'', we would have won at least 2 games.

Of course he's not a superstar talent anymore, but he's playing better than Russ and PG13 right now.

[RalphSampsonJr]

Melo is a luxury and should be treated as such.
Instead Billy D wants to use him like a game 6 MJ in every game..

Melo said it at the start. He and PG will fit around Russ. So far Russ has not played anything like his last season self.
Billy should be bringing it back to basics IMO. Use the Russ Adams PNR and let Melo and PG punish you for coming in to help.
They should be abusing the fact that Russ is creating so much attention with his aggressive play.

You have a top 3 PG with great finishing ability and a powerful C who is converting under the basket at a great %. Why not use that to get Melo space?! Melo should not be taking that many shots with hands in his face. He has two other all stars on the team!

Melo is not helping on the boards and has been lazy on D so he needs to be doing what he does best which is scoring. If he is not bringing that to the table then he should be riding the pine while 2Pat plays the 4.

[Pillendreher]

Ben Alamar ESPN Stats & Info

DeMar DeRozan is taking the hardest shots in the league (min 100 attempts). According to Second Spectrum, DeRozan's shots have an average quantified Shot Quality of 42.9%. This means, that given the type of shot, defensive pressure, location, an average player would have had an eFG% of 42.9% on the shots that DeRozan has taken. His actual eFG% is 48%. Dirk (qSQ = 44.7%) and Carmelo (qSQ = 45.3%) are just behind him

[Dadouv47]

Wonder how many difficult shots he's taking when playing with second unit and during 4th quarter. I think he's taking way less bad shots during first quarters (and first half)

[oken]

Melo don't pass! Found this from Knicks board)

Watch on YouTube

[NOOB77]

He has a total of 4 less assists than PG13 and has taken 3 less shots than PG13 and had a total of 6 more rebounds than PG13. He does get lazy on D from time to time no disputing that but to say he is the sole reason for the Thunders slow start is crazy. So is the I am bashing Paul George thread happening soon?

[Pillendreher]

He has a total of 4 less assists than PG13 and has taken 3 less shots than PG13 and had a total of 6 more rebounds than PG13. He does get lazy on D from time to time no disputing that but to say he is the sole reason for the Thunders slow start is crazy. So is the I am bashing Paul George thread happening soon?

Well to be fair George is 5th in the league in total catch and shoot 3s (17 more than Melo) while Melo is 9th in the league in total pull up shots (22 more than George).

George has attempted 106 open and wide open shots (out of 175 total; that's 60 % of his shots); Melo has attempted 90 open and wide open shots (out of 171 total; that's 52 % of his shots).

It's not about shot taking per se, but about the quality of the shot. I'd much rather he'd run a PnR than take yet another jab step pull up jumper.

[Kizz Fastfists]

PG has a higher eFG% and true shooting percentage then Melo. Melo has a negative OBPM and DPM. I guess it could just be that everyone and every statistic is wrong and Melo is a superstar, but at this point in his career everything says he is just an adequate rotation player.

[Acountant_Z]

Melo is one of the most talented scorers in the history of NBA. He is also one of the worst cancers for the team he plays for. It seems like a contradiction but there it is.

[popfan]

Never really watched him play that much in his career (although I still remember him crushing my Sooners in the final 4...that still hurts) but the word on him has always been that he's a ball stopper on offense and he hurts to some degree any offensive flow throughout the game because he almost never looks to pass and now I'm really starting to understand it. Yes, he's a great one on one player and he scores most of the time he goes isolation but he does it so much and their offense completely stops moving once he gets it because they all know he's going to jack it up. For this team to reach its potential he's going to have to start taking better shots and actually looking to pass and keep the ball moving some and as of right now he doesn't look like he has any interest in that. It's funny that the Knicks are now 6-5 and OKC is 4-6 and the common denominator is him. He is only averaging 1.6 assists per game in 32 minutes and he's already jacked up 67 3 pointers in 10 games which is ridiculous. Can Billy Donovan get this guy to change his game to some degree because if he can't they're in for a long season.

As bondom posted in another thread, Sabonis and Kanter are passing more per minute with their new teams. That’s an indictment on Dononvan. Billy seems to be saying the right thing to the media but until there is any evidence on the court we won’t be above .500.

I agree. This is on Donovan. I honestly never understood why the Thunder hired him. I don't dislike Donovan. It's that the Thunder had/have so many great players...they deserve a Pop-like coach. Someone with NBA experience and solid interpersonal skills. I saw Donovan excessively crew-out Oladipo on the court more than a few times last year. Pop's done that to Parker in the past but Parker respects Pop. Oladipo didn't look like he respected Donovan, who isn't getting the best out of his players except Westbrook.

[Bill Pidto]

It's a shame, OKC would have been much better off keeping Kanter and McDermott who have both been excellent for the Knicks. Both have proven to be great team players. Both still have youth and mobility. Both score more efficiently than Melo. Both willing to do the little things to help the team. Keep Westbrook and PG with those guys and I can almost guarantee the Thunder have a better record.

Melo is just living off his name at this point. His game is so one-dimensional and unenjoyable to watch. He sucks so much fun out of the game even for the fans, I can imagine how much fun he sucks out of it for his teammates.

A lot of fans will be fooled by some of the pretty shots he still makes. The jab steps and fadeaways still do it for some people. But if you ask me, the game has totally passed this dude by. Nobody wants to play like that anymore. Teams want to get up and down and move the ball. Everyone wants a little piece of the action. That's how you get the whole team playing scrappy defense. And we all know Melo treats defense like he does passing... it's just a little below his paygrade.

Good luck with this guy and his NTC. I thought if any player in the league besides LeBron or CP3 could keep Melo in line, it would be Westbrook. Maybe not. I do feel bad for Billy Donavan. He may not be a great or even good coach, but if he is, he'll never get a chance to show that with Melo on the roster. Melo will just straight up refuse to do anything that makes him feel uncomfortable. Whether it's try harder, share more, come off the bench, or simply be a willing participant in an offensive system that isn't catered to him.

There can't be a single more delusional player in the NBA. Has he never seen a Warriors game? Has he ever watched the Spurs play? Has he ever watched the way his buddy LeBron has shared the ball throughout his career? I really don't get it with Melo. As a bball junkie, you just wanna grab him by his shoulders and shake some damn sense into him.

[sleestak33]

It's a shame, OKC would have been much better off keeping Kanter and McDermott who have both been excellent for the Knicks. Both have proven to be great team players. Both still have youth and mobility. Both score more efficiently than Melo. Both willing to do the little things to help the team. Keep Westbrook and PG with those guys and I can almost guarantee the Thunder have a better record.

Melo is just living off his name at this point. His game is so one-dimensional and unenjoyable to watch. He sucks so much fun out of the game even for the fans, I can imagine how much fun he sucks out of it for his teammates.

A lot of fans will be fooled by some of the pretty shots he still makes. The jab steps and fadeaways still do it for some people. But if you ask me, the game has totally passed this dude by. Nobody wants to play like that anymore. Teams want to get up and down and move the ball. Everyone wants a little piece of the action. That's how you get the whole team playing scrappy defense. And we all know Melo treats defense like he does passing... it's just a little below his paygrade.

Good luck with this guy and his NTC. I thought if any player in the league besides LeBron or CP3 could keep Melo in line, it would be Westbrook. Maybe not. I do feel bad for Billy Donavan. He may not be a great or even good coach, but if he is, he'll never get a chance to show that with Melo on the roster. Melo will just straight up refuse to do anything that makes him feel uncomfortable. Whether it's try harder, share more, come off the bench, or simply be a willing participant in an offensive system that isn't catered to him.

There can't be a single more delusional player in the NBA. Has he never seen a Warriors game? Has he ever watched the Spurs play? Has he ever watched the way his buddy LeBron has shared the ball throughout his career? I really don't get it with Melo. As a bball junkie, you just wanna grab him by his shoulders and shake some damn sense into him.

I've been singing the praises of Kanter for years now and he should have been starting for OKC the entire time he was here. For some bizarre reason if you're atrocious on offense but good on defense you get to play all you want for the Thunder but if your defense is suspect you must have your minutes limited. Kanter actually averaged more points per minute last year than Carmelo but the difference is he's a phenomenal rebounder and OKC is missing that terribly this year, specifically the offensive rebounds Kanter got.

[slick_watts]

the knicks can't defend with kanter on the court. they give up 111pp100+ with him and porzingis in the game and 101pp100 with porzingis in with anyone else. they're losing by 4+pp100 with kanter in and are a winning team when he's not in the game. he's poisoning that team when he plays just like he did the thunder and just like he did utah.

i'd be shocked if kanter weren't benched for o'quinn or perhaps hernangomez with the next month or two at this rate. melo has had some integration problems here but he's far and away superior to enes kanter. at least the defense can function with him in the game.

[Bill Pidto]

the knicks can't defend with kanter on the court. they give up 111pp100+ with him and porzingis in the game and 101pp100 with porzingis in with anyone else. they're losing by 4+pp100 with kanter in and are a winning team when he's not in the game. he's poisoning that team when he plays just like he did the thunder and just like he did utah.

i'd be shocked if kanter weren't benched for o'quinn or perhaps hernangomez with the next month or two at this rate. melo has had some integration problems here but he's far and away superior to enes kanter. at least the defense can function with him in the game.

They're a winning team without Kanter? How about, they're a winning team. Period. And Kanter has truly been one of the main cogs. He's basically the perfect compliment to KP on offense.

And not only does he rebound like a man possessed and score more efficiently than Melo could ever dream, he's also made strides defensively and puts more effort in on that side than Melo ever did as a Knick. But I think most importantly, he's an incredible teammate which is a very underrated quality amongst fans who aren't in the locker room and who can't calculate with stats how impactful great chemistry is.

But something tells me we don't need any more stats for this one. Melo is a cancer, and I'm not trying to troll you guys about it. Just warning you, it's only going to get worse.

[Pillendreher]

But something tells me we don't need any more stats for this one. Melo is a cancer, and I'm not trying to troll you guys about it. Just warning you, it's only going to get worse.

I'd mutch rather have a great/good player who is difficult in certain regards than a proven liability in Kanter. Kanter is what we call a 'Schönwetterspieler' in German. A guy who looks decent if things don't matter. Get back to us if you're ever so lucky to contend for a title and you're benching Kanter because he's straight up unplayable, yet he's taking up 20 % of your cap or more.

[Bill Pidto]

But something tells me we don't need any more stats for this one. Melo is a cancer, and I'm not trying to troll you guys about it. Just warning you, it's only going to get worse.

I'd mutch rather have a great/good player who is difficult in certain regards than a proven liability in Kanter. Kanter is what we call a 'Schönwetterspieler' in German. A guy who looks decent if things don't matter. Get back to us if you're ever so lucky to contend for a title and you're benching Kanter because he's straight up unplayable, yet he's taking up 20 % of your cap or more.

I feel like you just described Melo lol

[bondom34]

Honesty I kinda miss Kanter. He was willing to take a smaller role.

[Atomic Punk]

Honesty I kinda miss Kanter. He was willing to take a smaller role.

I miss Kanter the teammate and Kanter the scorer and rebounder. I don’t miss Kanter the defender. That being said, I wish that the coaching staff could have helped him to develop into a semi-competent defender or figured out lineup combinations that could have helped offset his deficiencies. However, as I mentioned in another post, it is hard to hide a defensive liability for long stretches.

I asked this earlier, not sure if anyone saw it (or cares ) but if Russ had already signed his extension, do you think the Thunder would have traded for Melo? I think Russ signed 4 or 5 days after the trade.