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nic4747 wrote:Hey all,

Just curious to get Thunder fan's prospective on the team's slow start this season, since I haven't seen too many of the games. Personally, I would think it natural for a team to not immediately gel when you are trying to incorporate 3 ball dominant players into a single lineup, and that things will get better with time. I have lurked on these forums a bit and know that some take issue with the coaching and / or Melo, but my question is, do you think some of the blame is attributable to Westbrook and his style of play / ability to quarterback the offense, etc, or is Westbrook pretty much blameless here? Again, I haven't seen many games so I don't have any personal opinion one way or the other, I'm just curious what everyone thinks.

oken wrote:If Donovan was Popovich and team was going downhill, all the fault would be on Russ but this is Thunder. Billy is the kind of coach that wants everyone to figure it out for themselves thus slow learners take much more than usual to adapt to it. And sometimes they don't at all. Also the requirement to push the team to playoffs every year regardless of the player development has broken him.
E.g. Kanter is benched immediately when he forgets to raise his hands on defense regardless of the minute or score on the Knicks. Here we only know that Donovan liked to complain to Mo Cheeks about it and maybe was drawing Kanter's face on the punchbags at his gym.

bondom34 wrote:

oken wrote:If Donovan was Popovich and team was going downhill, all the fault would be on Russ but this is Thunder. Billy is the kind of coach that wants everyone to figure it out for themselves thus slow learners take much more than usual to adapt to it. And sometimes they don't at all. Also the requirement to push the team to playoffs every year regardless of the player development has broken him.
E.g. Kanter is benched immediately when he forgets to raise his hands on defense regardless of the minute or score on the Knicks. Here we only know that Donovan liked to complain to Mo Cheeks about it and maybe was drawing Kanter's face on the punchbags at his gym.

Kanter literally was benched an entire playoff series.

oken wrote:

bondom34 wrote:

oken wrote:If Donovan was Popovich and team was going downhill, all the fault would be on Russ but this is Thunder. Billy is the kind of coach that wants everyone to figure it out for themselves thus slow learners take much more than usual to adapt to it. And sometimes they don't at all. Also the requirement to push the team to playoffs every year regardless of the player development has broken him.
E.g. Kanter is benched immediately when he forgets to raise his hands on defense regardless of the minute or score on the Knicks. Here we only know that Donovan liked to complain to Mo Cheeks about it and maybe was drawing Kanter's face on the punchbags at his gym.

Kanter literally was benched an entire playoff series.

That's my point literally. To bench a player when it would be productive, not during playoffs (and undermining his value by shaming him in front of national media) which is counterproductive. Billy was always stressed out to reach the ultimate goal of reaching the CF or at least not missing the playoffs last year which made him do very uncharacteristic things like letting Kanter do whatever he wants with the second team as long as it brought some form of scoring. He is in the path of becoming the Tyronn Lue of the Western Conference.

bondom34 wrote:Hes a poor coach, but he handled Kanter well.

I don't see your point or its relationship here.

oken wrote:

bondom34 wrote:Hes a poor coach, but he handled Kanter well.

I don't see your point or its relationship here.

NO he didn't. A good coach is the one that alters the play to his player's strengths. Donovan only complained. Team got killed by high Harden PnRs all day long and he only faulted his personnel. Below is an examples of what Hornacek did during similar situations during the games. What I mean is a good coach can hide defensive liabilities by drawing better plays and utilises a reward/punishment scheme. Donovan has done none of these 2.

This is from Knicks-Pacers game. Please note all bigs not just Kanter are torched by high PnR in first half.

Watch on YouTube

bondom34 wrote:Yeah I'm mostly confused as to why you're bringing the Knicks up. Jack is bad.

oken wrote:

bondom34 wrote:Yeah I'm mostly confused as to why you're bringing the Knicks up. Jack is bad.

It's normal with the age. I will bring up Pacers next time to make it clearer.
#respectfortheretired

oken wrote:Another note regarding the main question, one of the main weaknesses of Russ is that he still does not act like a veteran player. I cannot distinguish him from a sophomore PG who wants to take over the world by his youth and energy. See below Jarret Jack shoving and shouting at Kanter to put him into correct position on defense on nearly every position. Russ is too self centered to be able to make such positive contributions to the team game. He may never be a real "vet".

Also think of the supposed "veteran" PGs we had to endure over these years. One eyed Jack is a guy playing for his bread now but it seems to have made him a much wiser man.

Watch on YouTube

RalphSampsonJr wrote:However Kanter needs to take some responsibility with all of what you're saying. This is his, what 6th year?! And he still needs to be baby sat?!

nic4747 wrote:Thanks all for your replies. I can't wait to see how your team does in the playoffs.

oken wrote:See below Jarret Jack shoving and shouting at Kanter to put him into correct position on defense on nearly every position. Russ is too self centered to be able to make such positive contributions to the team game. He may never be a real "vet".