12/1 - POSTGAME | Minnesota Timberwolves (107) - (111) Oklahoma City Thunder

[slick_watts]

mike conley carries the grindhouse mantle. this guy is the impetus for the grizzlies playing a proven winning style that extracts a ton of value from its players despite roster and coaching staff turnover.

what's westbrook's identity?

[spearsy23]

I think the argument that with this cast there are some PGs who would fit better then Russ. I think that makes sense IF your are assuming a certain level of production from PG and Melo with the other point guard.

This is an incredibly fair question, but in order to make the argument I think you have to assume Melo is something that he's not, and hasn't been for many years (possibly ever). A point guard who fits well with Melo necessitates high usage for a mediocre scorer who doesn't create for others and massages the ball without probing the defense. Melo is not a player you want to build your roster around, he's a guy who needs to fit into your roster. He'd do that a lot better off the bench here.

[spearsy23]

mike conley carries the grindhouse mantle. this guy is the impetus for the grizzlies playing a proven winning style that extracts a ton of value from its players despite roster and coaching staff turnover.

what's westbrook's identity?

You misspelled marc gasol.

[slick_watts]

mike conley carries the grindhouse mantle. this guy is the impetus for the grizzlies playing a proven winning style that extracts a ton of value from its players despite roster and coaching staff turnover.

what's westbrook's identity?

You misspelled marc gasol.

the grizzlies are floundering with mike conley out. got their coach fired. i like marc too, obviously, but he's not the true grindfather.

[ThunderBolt]

Except Lillard and Conley have had teammates of the caliber of George, and haven't won more games.

Currently, Conley doesn’t have a players better than George. Do you think CJ is better than George or are you referring to to Lma? Keep in mind your comparing those previous teams to a 9-12 team. So did Lillard and Conley really underachieve in comparison to this team. Russ wasn’t the main guy when he played alongside Durant.

If we're comparing full seasons to 20 games, try SRS or MOV.

And I'd say CJ and George is lopsided but not terribly and Adams and Nurk is comparable. OKC is still by Pythag a 13-14 win team.

Edit: OKC's net rating w/ Russ on court is better than PDX with Lillard right now.

Pythag says we are a 13-14 win team but our record says otherwise. Why? What do you think is the reason behind it? If you say it’s dononvan then I don’t see how that’s any different than me saying Russ. It’s just a difference of opinion. Stats can tell us what is happening but they don’t always pinpoint why it’s happening.

Durant, Oladipo and George had to adjust their games in a way that limits their opportunities. I’m not saying this is 100% all due to russ’ mistakes. Durant traded Russ for three all starts so life got easier.Vic got in shape. The jury is still out on George.

Building around Russ isn’t easy and Im not sure that this roster will work. Most fans are thinking about what we need to do to surround russ with a roster that can win. Im looking at it for the standpoint of what would this team be if Russ wasn’t the main option but we had Adams, Oladipo, George and a guy that can just do his job at both ends of the floor without being a liability?

For the record, I regard to my theory I would probably take a prime Mike Conley over Lillard because despite what I like about Lillards offensive game, his defense sucks.

[bondom34]

Currently, Conley doesn’t have a players better than George. Do you think CJ is better than George or are you referring to to Lma? Keep in mind your comparing those previous teams to a 9-12 team. So did Lillard and Conley really underachieve in comparison to this team. Russ wasn’t the main guy when he played alongside Durant.

If we're comparing full seasons to 20 games, try SRS or MOV.

And I'd say CJ and George is lopsided but not terribly and Adams and Nurk is comparable. OKC is still by Pythag a 13-14 win team.

Edit: OKC's net rating w/ Russ on court is better than PDX with Lillard right now.

Pythag says we are a 13-14 win team but our record says otherwise. Why? What do you think is the reason behind it? If you say it’s dononvan then I don’t see how that’s any different than me saying Russ. It’s just a difference of opinion. Stats can tell us what is happening but they don’t always pinpoint why it’s happening.

Durant, Oladipo and George had to adjust their games in a way that limits their opportunities. I’m not saying this is 100% all due to russ’ mistakes. Durant traded Russ for three all starts so life got easier.Vic got in shape. The jury is still out on George.

Building around Russ isn’t easy and Im not sure that this roster will work. Most fans are thinking about what we need to do to surround russ with a roster that can win. Im looking at it for the standpoint of what would this team be if Russ wasn’t the main option but we had Adams, Oladipo, George and a guy that can just do his job at both ends of the floor without being a liability?

For the record, I regard to my theory I would probably take a prime Mike Conley over Lillard because despite what I like about Lillards offensive game, his defense sucks.

So you mean they get less shots? Because Durant literally has fewer opportunities now than in OKC. He has better teammates. George and Dipo do because they were a 1 man team previously. Unless you think either they're better than Russ or should have the ball more I don't know what to tell you.

The record is different because they've got a totally new roster trying to figure out what the hell to do with themselves, Russ shot poorly, Melo Isos a ton, PG is passive, and the coach is integrating it all. It's not Russ, its not Donovan, its not PG, its not Melo. Its them all. And even then the defense sucks late game.

Building around any player isn't easy, so why bother? Just tank more and build around the next guy you can't build around. Russ has been a higher impact player than literally anyone you named other than prime Paul and Curry. I mean it's not even close, you'd be better saying Reggie or Rubio so it was clearer. There aren't many things I'm certain on but this is one, this isn't a realistic opinion to have. Also Conley hasn't ever been remotely as good as Russ. It's taking Oladipo over Harden because well he's a better defender. It's just nonsensical.

[ThunderBolt]

If we're comparing full seasons to 20 games, try SRS or MOV.

And I'd say CJ and George is lopsided but not terribly and Adams and Nurk is comparable. OKC is still by Pythag a 13-14 win team.

Edit: OKC's net rating w/ Russ on court is better than PDX with Lillard right now.

Pythag says we are a 13-14 win team but our record says otherwise. Why? What do you think is the reason behind it? If you say it’s dononvan then I don’t see how that’s any different than me saying Russ. It’s just a difference of opinion. Stats can tell us what is happening but they don’t always pinpoint why it’s happening.

Durant, Oladipo and George had to adjust their games in a way that limits their opportunities. I’m not saying this is 100% all due to russ’ mistakes. Durant traded Russ for three all starts so life got easier.Vic got in shape. The jury is still out on George.

Building around Russ isn’t easy and Im not sure that this roster will work. Most fans are thinking about what we need to do to surround russ with a roster that can win. Im looking at it for the standpoint of what would this team be if Russ wasn’t the main option but we had Adams, Oladipo, George and a guy that can just do his job at both ends of the floor without being a liability?

For the record, I regard to my theory I would probably take a prime Mike Conley over Lillard because despite what I like about Lillards offensive game, his defense sucks.

So you mean they get less shots? Because Durant literally has fewer opportunities now than in OKC. He has better teammates. George and Dipo do because they were a 1 man team previously. Unless you think either they're better than Russ or should have the ball more I don't know what to tell you.

The record is different because they've got a totally new roster trying to figure out what the hell to do with themselves, Russ shot poorly, Melo Isos a ton, PG is passive, and the coach is integrating it all. It's not Russ, its not Donovan, its not PG, its not Melo. Its them all. And even then the defense sucks late game.

Building around any player isn't easy, so why bother? Just tank more and build around the next guy you can't build around. Russ has been a higher impact player than literally anyone you named other than prime Paul and Curry. I mean it's not even close, you'd be better saying Reggie or Rubio so it was clearer. There aren't many things I'm certain on but this is one, this isn't a realistic opinion to have. Also Conley hasn't ever been remotely as good as Russ. It's taking Oladipo over Harden because well he's a better defender. It's just nonsensical.

Having the reigning mvp with his GM adding his ideal fit alongside him, and then starting the year 9-12 while refusing to question the guy who is the supposed leader, is nonsensical.

Also if you’re going to question Lillard and Conley for not winning then you need to leave Harden out of the discussion. I’m done arguing it. You’ve already got one debate happening. You can have the last word.

[bondom34]

Pythag says we are a 13-14 win team but our record says otherwise. Why? What do you think is the reason behind it? If you say it’s dononvan then I don’t see how that’s any different than me saying Russ. It’s just a difference of opinion. Stats can tell us what is happening but they don’t always pinpoint why it’s happening.

Durant, Oladipo and George had to adjust their games in a way that limits their opportunities. I’m not saying this is 100% all due to russ’ mistakes. Durant traded Russ for three all starts so life got easier.Vic got in shape. The jury is still out on George.

Building around Russ isn’t easy and Im not sure that this roster will work. Most fans are thinking about what we need to do to surround russ with a roster that can win. Im looking at it for the standpoint of what would this team be if Russ wasn’t the main option but we had Adams, Oladipo, George and a guy that can just do his job at both ends of the floor without being a liability?

For the record, I regard to my theory I would probably take a prime Mike Conley over Lillard because despite what I like about Lillards offensive game, his defense sucks.

So you mean they get less shots? Because Durant literally has fewer opportunities now than in OKC. He has better teammates. George and Dipo do because they were a 1 man team previously. Unless you think either they're better than Russ or should have the ball more I don't know what to tell you.

The record is different because they've got a totally new roster trying to figure out what the hell to do with themselves, Russ shot poorly, Melo Isos a ton, PG is passive, and the coach is integrating it all. It's not Russ, its not Donovan, its not PG, its not Melo. Its them all. And even then the defense sucks late game.

Building around any player isn't easy, so why bother? Just tank more and build around the next guy you can't build around. Russ has been a higher impact player than literally anyone you named other than prime Paul and Curry. I mean it's not even close, you'd be better saying Reggie or Rubio so it was clearer. There aren't many things I'm certain on but this is one, this isn't a realistic opinion to have. Also Conley hasn't ever been remotely as good as Russ. It's taking Oladipo over Harden because well he's a better defender. It's just nonsensical.

Having the reigning mvp with his GM adding his ideal fit alongside him, and then starting the year 9-12 while refusing to question the guy who is the supposed leader, is nonsensical.

Also if you’re going to question Lillard and Conley for not winning then you need to leave Harden out of the discussion. I’m done arguing it. You’ve already got one debate happening. You can have the last word.

I'm fine, but I'm wondering why Harden should be left out when he got Dwight Howard and went 41-41? I've questioned Russ plenty. Seems like some aren't willing to look elsewhere.

Big gap from "been part of the problem" to "trade him for any above average starter".

[spearsy23]

mike conley carries the grindhouse mantle. this guy is the impetus for the grizzlies playing a proven winning style that extracts a ton of value from its players despite roster and coaching staff turnover.

what's westbrook's identity?

You misspelled marc gasol.

the grizzlies are floundering with mike conley out. got their coach fired. i like marc too, obviously, but he's not the true grindfather.

They'd lost 3 of 4 with Conley and the one win was by 1 point. It has nothing to do with conley being their most important player (and he hasn't been), they just aren't a very good team and certainly not good enough to overcome the loss of a very good point guard. Trying to use an 8 game sample to make some overarching point is laughable, especially from you. Btw, remember last year when we lost Kevin Durant and still made the playoffs finishing above the grizzlies and being dragged there by Russ elevating the team in a way only Lebron could replicate and surpass? That was Russell Westbrook's identity.

[bondom34]

Oddly I think they lost more than expected with Z Bo

[hardenASG13]

I honestly don’t know why you even bother watching this team other than just to crap all over them. But whatever floats your boat....

It's insane with some of these guys. They don't like the teams playing style, rotations, or stars, yet they are die-hard followers of the team. Nobody has a gun to your head. Follow a group you like more! Makes you wonder if they just want to fit in with the forum group, because I can't see why the majority follow this team. They hate what they see, even in wins. Other teams don't play perfect in all their wins either. Stay off the bandwagon when they get it going, guys.

This is gold right here. You’ve made some very bandwagon comments in the past about why you support okc and why would jump ship in the future. I don’t really want to dig through your posts to find it, but we both know it happened.

Yes, I absolutely would jump ship if I no longer liked the team and it's players, or the direction the team was headed. Thats what im encouraging you to do. Why follow a team you hate watching so passionately as an adult? Find a team you like more, theres lots of them! I think they are going to turn it around a be a major playoff threat. You seem to enjoy posting gifs of a tank or a dumpster fire. Whatever, live your dream.

[Kizz Fastfists]

You follow YOUR team. The highs and the lows. You complain about them when they are screwing up, which is what the Thunder have been doing the last year. You praise them when they are doing things right. You don't jump from team to team like an pouting teenager just because your team's front office, coaching staff or players are sucking. You endure and vent your frustrations. It is called being a fan, which is short for fanatic! If you can easily switch teams at the drop of a hat you are not really a fan of any team.

As a lifelong Cubs fan I know all about how much failure a front office can produce. I complained for years about most moves even when the idiots thought some of them were right. It wasn't until the Cubs finally got ownership that wanted to win and put a quality front office in place that I started to run out of things to complain about. There are still moves I complain about, but a lot less now.

[slick_watts]

They'd lost 3 of 4 with Conley and the one win was by 1 point. It has nothing to do with conley being their most important player (and he hasn't been), they just aren't a very good team and certainly not good enough to overcome the loss of a very good point guard. Trying to use an 8 game sample to make some overarching point is laughable, especially from you.

marc gasol has turned into a soft big man who shoots threes now- and you're suggesting he's the true grindfather? puh-leeze.

Btw, remember last year when we lost Kevin Durant and still made the playoffs finishing above the grizzlies and being dragged there by Russ elevating the team in a way only Lebron could replicate and surpass? That was Russell Westbrook's identity.

westbrook's identity is individual achievement. he'll be known for his triple doubles just like oscar was. which, isn't a bad thing. it's just him.

lets not pretend that the thunder making the playoffs last year was some sort of miracle. they met expectations.

[ThunderBolt]

It's insane with some of these guys. They don't like the teams playing style, rotations, or stars, yet they are die-hard followers of the team. Nobody has a gun to your head. Follow a group you like more! Makes you wonder if they just want to fit in with the forum group, because I can't see why the majority follow this team. They hate what they see, even in wins. Other teams don't play perfect in all their wins either. Stay off the bandwagon when they get it going, guys.

This is gold right here. You’ve made some very bandwagon comments in the past about why you support okc and why would jump ship in the future. I don’t really want to dig through your posts to find it, but we both know it happened.

Yes, I absolutely would jump ship if I no longer liked the team and it's players, or the direction the team was headed. Thats what im encouraging you to do. Why follow a team you hate watching so passionately as an adult? Find a team you like more, theres lots of them! I think they are going to turn it around a be a major playoff threat. You seem to enjoy posting gifs of a tank or a dumpster fire. Whatever, live your dream.

I’ve probably posted less than ten gifs throughout my time on realgm. If we want to discuss redundancy then let’s not forget that you bring up Andre Roberson and blame him for everything wrong in the world.

[hardenASG13]

This is gold right here. You’ve made some very bandwagon comments in the past about why you support okc and why would jump ship in the future. I don’t really want to dig through your posts to find it, but we both know it happened.

Yes, I absolutely would jump ship if I no longer liked the team and it's players, or the direction the team was headed. Thats what im encouraging you to do. Why follow a team you hate watching so passionately as an adult? Find a team you like more, theres lots of them! I think they are going to turn it around a be a major playoff threat. You seem to enjoy posting gifs of a tank or a dumpster fire. Whatever, live your dream.

I’ve probably posted less than ten gifs throughout my time on realgm. If we want to discuss redundancy then let’s not forget that you bring up Andre Roberson and blame him for everything wrong in the world.

[Old Man Game]

Are people really questioning the contract? Really?

I'm not gonna question giving it to him. I'm just realistic that the prospect of paying 33 year old Russell Westbrook 50 million or whatever may not be all that great.

[bondom34]

Are people really questioning the contract? Really?

I'm not gonna question giving it to him. I'm just realistic that the prospect of paying 33 year old Russell Westbrook 50 million or whatever may not be all that great.

You could say the same about CP3s next deal. And John Wall. And Harden. You pay on the back end what you get in the front.

[Old Man Game]

Are people really questioning the contract? Really?

I'm not gonna question giving it to him. I'm just realistic that the prospect of paying 33 year old Russell Westbrook 50 million or whatever may not be all that great.

You could say the same about CP3s next deal. And John Wall. And Harden. You pay on the back end what you get in the front.

The issue is those guys both having higher bbiq and therefore it seems plausible that while not ideal to be paying at that age, the drop-off for them may not be as steep as Westbrook.

Sent from my Pixel using RealGM mobile app

[bondom34]

I'm not gonna question giving it to him. I'm just realistic that the prospect of paying 33 year old Russell Westbrook 50 million or whatever may not be all that great.

You could say the same about CP3s next deal. And John Wall. And Harden. You pay on the back end what you get in the front.

The issue is those guys both having higher bbiq and therefore it seems plausible that while not ideal to be paying at that age, the drop-off for them may not be as steep as Westbrook.

Sent from my Pixel using RealGM mobile app

John Wall hasnt ever been as good, and Paul will be nearing 40. I see the argument for Harden but even he's in decline. It's the questino with the supermax contracts. If you want good players you pay them. If you don't you don't but don't complain when your team never attracts anyone.

[spearsy23]

I'm not gonna question giving it to him. I'm just realistic that the prospect of paying 33 year old Russell Westbrook 50 million or whatever may not be all that great.

You could say the same about CP3s next deal. And John Wall. And Harden. You pay on the back end what you get in the front.

The issue is those guys both having higher bbiq and therefore it seems plausible that while not ideal to be paying at that age, the drop-off for them may not be as steep as Westbrook.

Sent from my Pixel using RealGM mobile app

Every player is going to break down and most are going to be worth less than their contracts when it happens. At that point with Russ we will be rebuilding and the cap space isn't going to be a real issue.