Offseason moves revisited

[ThunderBolt]

I was reading in the game thread of the rockets series last year after the series concluded. I made the comment that I wouldn’t be surprised if Vic was traded and averaged 25ppg somewhere else. Although several disagreed, it’s pretty much come to fruition. Domas is averaging 12/8 and shooting significantly less threes. I’m not saying we made the wrong moves because we don’t knownwhat George will do. I’m wondering what this team would be if we had kept what we had.

What if we still had Kanter, McDermott and the bulls second round pick?
Could we have moved Kanter at the deadline this year and put Domas as a backup 5 like Indiana has done?
How would this years version of Vic had fit alongside Russ?
Would Domas had played well at the four?
Should we have kept Taj?
Would Russ have sign his extension?
If he hadn’t signed his extension, would the improvement of the roster have been enough to convince him to do it this offseason?

[slick_watts]

paul george has been excellent but assuming all else was the same, i think the team would have been better this year without making either of the trades.

taj alone is better than melo.

[Dadouv47]

Oladipo wasn't a great fit alongside Westbrook

Kanter was unplayable against elite offense (so sad to admit it because i love Enes <3)

McDermott is not doing anything in the league.

Domas still lack experience and is not ready against the best teams even if he's a great talent.

Can't tell if Westbrook would have signed his extension without the moves. I believe he would but not sure...

=> In the end I think the moves made us a better team BUT not as good as we thought it would be. We couldn't win a game against GSW/Cleveland/Rockets last year.

I also won't be able to make any conclusion after this year if we lose against the rockets or GSW in the playoffs because Roberson is a key player to guard Harden or cupcake/curry so it could change everything against one of those team

[bondom34]

I would take back the Melo trade.

But the George deal was amazing

[ThunderBolt]

I have a little bit of a hard time when I hear that Westbrook and Oladipo don’t go well alongside each other.

[Osirus89]

Hmm... a lot of interesting paths you could take regarding the moves.
I think both moves are largely ok with the George move being a slam dunk and the Melo move being fine by virtue that I think guys like having him around and that is not an insignificant thing.

Point by point:
1. What if we still had Kanter, McDermott and the bulls second round pick? The bulls pick would have been like almost having a first which may have been an asset at the deadline but.... McDermott is basically slightly taller Abrines in terms of trade value and Kanter would have been very hard to move on that contract. Teams didn't want to take on money at the deadline. Kanter would have been a no-go considering he will pickup his option. New York was willing to do the trade because they were in a bind and Melo was picking up his option as well, which would have been a tough pill for a team that is trying to rebuild.

2. How would this years version of Vic had fit alongside Russ? This is pretty complicated. Victor would have improved this year, but he wouldn't be nearly as impactful playing alongside Russ. We saw earlier in the season what happens when Russ tries to play passive and off the ball. It doesn't work very well. He has to be the engine on the offense. You could have Victor run the 2nd units, but that could lead to its own problems. Do you bring in Felton if Victor is there?

Its hard to construct a really good team centered around two similarly sized ball dominant guards. Portland has been trying to figure it out for years and I think most people agree they are a decent team that could at best get to the second round. That's if everything goes right since they almost certainly would not have HCA. George is the perfect compliment to Russell. He plays well off the ball and is a big wing player that plays phenomenal defense.

3. Would Domas have played well at the four? Most definitely. I remember thinking at the time that losing Domantas was the player that I would miss out of the ones traded. Domantas would be similar to Patterson, but younger and on a cheap rookie deal.

4. Should we have kept Taj? The theory being getting Patterson was great. He hasn't lived up to what most expected, but he has been better after his dreadful start to the season. Would you rather pay Gibson what he wound up getting or Patterson on his deal?

5. Would Russ have sign his extension? The BIG question. I want to say yes, but I honestly have no idea. It seems like he would have stayed, but its a tough ask to commit to a team that you just carried for an entire season just to get bounced in the first round by Houston. Factor in that Minnesota and Houston got much better in the offseason and it would be almost unfair to run it back with the same team regardless of loyalty. After the trades the team can beat any team on a given night. I remember the video that Russell posted after the George trade and how hyped he was. Would he have been that excited leading last seasons team plus Terrance Ferguson?

[ThunderBolt]

I think we would have been a more complete team. We still would have had been overly dependent on russ but likely more consistent than this years group, albeit with a lower ceiling. Then again, maybe the ceiling wouldn’t have been lower.

Also, I don’t know that ownership would have been willing to pay for Taj and Dre to both stay, and then sign Patterson with the MLE.

[Kizz Fastfists]

I never liked the PG trade, but Donovan would still be having Sabonis camp out at the 3 point line and he wouldn't be the player he is in Indy. I said repeatedly I wanted OKC to be the 3rd team in the Melo to Houston trade getting Ryan Anderson and potentially another small piece for Kanter instead of directly getting Melo. Ryan Anderson is better then Melo right now. Keeping Taj would have been ideal, but I don't think it was ever an option. I also don't think Donovan would give him the playing time he would deserve in the playoffs just like last year.

The mistake in the Melo for Kanter trade was including the 2nd round pick. As bad as Kanter is the difference between Kanter and Melo at this point in their careers isn't as much as I thought even with the Kanter's terrible defense being at a position where it can destroy an otherwise solid defense.

[Dn4sty]

I never liked the PG trade, but Donovan would still be having Sabonis camp out at the 3 point line and he wouldn't be the player he is in Indy. I said repeatedly I wanted OKC to be the 3rd team in the Melo to Houston trade getting Ryan Anderson and potentially another small piece for Kanter instead of directly getting Melo. Ryan Anderson is better then Melo right now. Keeping Taj would have been ideal, but I don't think it was ever an option. I also don't think Donovan would give him the playing time he would deserve in the playoffs just like last year.

The mistake in the Melo for Kanter trade was including the 2nd round pick. As bad as Kanter is the difference between Kanter and Melo at this point in their careers isn't as much as I thought even with the Kanter's terrible defense being at a position where it can destroy an otherwise solid defense.

You loved the Melo trade. Also this post has a bunch of hindsight in it.

[RalphSampsonJr]

You have to trade for PG.
Melo tho.. was a bad move. I dont know if Presti tried but he should of bundled kanter and whatever to move up the draft.

Getting Melo will make things very hard next season. I feel like we will be stuck at 3-6 seed until we can get rid of him

[Kizz Fastfists]

You loved the Melo trade. Also this post has a bunch of hindsight in it.

I did like the Melo trade because it got Kanter off the roster. I thought just getting rid of Kanter and adding a competent backup center would be a huge boost. The problem was my assumption that a competent backup center was in the planning and I didn't realize Melo had regressed as much as he has. I also said BEFORE the trade that I'd rather have Ryan Anderson then Melo and felt that way after the trade and even more so today. I'm still very glad that Kanter is gone and that trade wasn't bad. The lack of follow up to complete the roster after the trade is still an issue and the most valuable thing moved by either team in the trade was the 2nd round pick from Chicago, but I saw that as the price required to get someone to take Kanter.

[Kizz Fastfists]

Getting Melo will make things very hard next season. I feel like we will be stuck at 3-6 seed until we can get rid of him

Melo could be gone this off-season if he opts out if not he will be gone after next season. OKC will be lucky to be a 3-6 seed this year. There is a slim chance they could get there next year if PG sticks around and Roberson recovers faster then expected and closer to 100% then 80% of what he was.

[RalphSampsonJr]

Getting Melo will make things very hard next season. I feel like we will be stuck at 3-6 seed until we can get rid of him

Melo could be gone this off-season if he opts out if not he will be gone after next season. OKC will be lucky to be a 3-6 seed this year. There is a slim chance they could get there next year if PG sticks around and Roberson recovers faster then expected and closer to 100% then 80% of what he was.

Melo isnt going to opt out of his contract though.
He would get 10-12 mil less at best in FA

If PG leaves, Melo stays and Robes cant come back at 100.. its gonna be tough next season.

[Dn4sty]

You loved the Melo trade. Also this post has a bunch of hindsight in it.

I did like the Melo trade because it got Kanter off the roster. I thought just getting rid of Kanter and adding a competent backup center would be a huge boost. The problem was my assumption that a competent backup center was in the planning and I didn't realize Melo had regressed as much as he has. I also said BEFORE the trade that I'd rather have Ryan Anderson then Melo and felt that way after the trade and even more so today. I'm still very glad that Kanter is gone and that trade wasn't bad. The lack of follow up to complete the roster after the trade is still an issue and the most valuable thing moved by either team in the trade was the 2nd round pick from Chicago, but I saw that as the price required to get someone to take Kanter.

I’ll take your word for this somewhat (I’m not going to go back through all the posts again, and I’m sure you don’t post all your thoughts about OKC on this board), but you had no issue putting OKC 2nd seed after Melo deal. Being the 2nd seed is worth FAR more than a 2nd round pick.

You have a ton of knowledge, but people remember what you say and this post seems kinda strange to me.

[Dn4sty]

I would take back the Melo trade.

But the George deal was amazing

I wouldn’t take it back, but I would have expanded it. Surely OKC could have gotten Lee and O’Quinn in the deal as well.

The Knicks were in a position of weakness with negotiations and Melos NTC

[Kizz Fastfists]

I’ll take your word for this somewhat (I’m not going to go back through all the posts again, and I’m sure you don’t post all your thoughts about OKC on this board), but you had no issue putting OKC 2nd seed after Melo deal. Being the 2nd seed is worth FAR more than a 2nd round pick.

You have a ton of knowledge, but people remember what you say and this post seems kinda strange to me.

I still can't believe I actually posted that the trade put them with Houston and SA for the 2nd seed. You already posted it and I recognized it when you posted it. I drastically overreacted wanting a Melo of 3 years ago instead of the version we got. Melo has been by far the biggest player disappointment to me this season. I also really expected a follow up move for a veteran center or at least Dakari getting 10-15 minutes a night to compensate for loss of rebounding with Kanter leaving.

The rotations have been worse then my low expectations. With a competent coach this team would be fighting for the 3 seed even with Roberson going down instead of just trying to make the playoffs and be an easy first round exit.

[Dn4sty]

Getting Melo will make things very hard next season. I feel like we will be stuck at 3-6 seed until we can get rid of him

Melo could be gone this off-season if he opts out if not he will be gone after next season. OKC will be lucky to be a 3-6 seed this year. There is a slim chance they could get there next year if PG sticks around and Roberson recovers faster then expected and closer to 100% then 80% of what he was.

I don’t think the gap between GSW and a healthy Thunder is massive. Clearly they are better, but the NBA is trending weird. By that I mean, we are in an era of massive team upheaval. Tons of legit players have switched hands and I think you’ll see even more of that this summer.

Further I don’t think OKC I has their hands tied this summer in making moves to actually get a bench, improve wing depth, and a backup center.

They will have another opportunity to use almost all the Tax MLE (like 2Pat contract) to bring in a player in a very cap space deficient summer. There will be decent players that will have to take significant discounts this summer.

Further with both Abrines and Singler as expirings, you can take on longterm salary for a player (Lee, Snell, etc....)

I believe that OKC is willing to be as all in as they can be next year provided that George re-signs.

I think that you can find upgrades to this roster fairly eas next summer and close the gap.

Plus you never know when something crazy will happen again changing the balance of the league.

I think any of the following players are realistically obtainable by OKC this summer with the assets and exception OKC has

Joseph (assuming he opts out)
Lee
Snell
Harkless
Temple
Koufos
Mejri
Lamb
MKG
Ellington
Ed Davis
Dedmon
Holiday
Norman Powell

[spearsy23]

Meh, Sam made some aggressive moves for the first time in his career. It was the right play rather it works out or not. If George walks then you admit it failed and you blow it up. We'll be rebuilding eventually no matter what so there's no harm in maximizing the current window at the expense of Oladipo and Sabonis. They weren't leading us to a championship anyway.

Carmelo being complete and total ass wasn't predictable, even if the OK3 talk was always dumb.

[Papi_swav]

The more I watch OKC the more I see that Melo is the problem and he doesn't fit there. Westbrook and PG has some sort of chemistry and is a good fit but Melo just ruins everything. If his 3 point shot isn't falling than he won't give you much of anything else, get rid of him fast.

[ThunderBolt]

For all of his faults, Kanter at least offered rebounding in addition to his scoring. Melo doesn’t much else besides an occasional night when he gets hot.