4/11 - 7PM CST | G82: Memphis Grizzlies at Oklahoma City Thunder

[bondom34]

Many are terribly negative. You can critical and not think they are a great team, just been trying to give you guys proper perspective. They've been playing up/down to comp all year. They don't have a strong coach. That will happen. They have been right in the mix with everyone in the West, outside GS and Hou.

OK,pretty much agree here.

The accepted stance on them (on this board)is that they were at best a first round out, and several preferred they missed the Playoffs.

They're now the 4 seed, and may be that. I don't mind if someone wanted them to tank if they were constant in that belief. Some wanted a rebuild for 2 years.

All this despite them having a legit superstar, complemented by a legit all star, a very good young center, and what's left of melo (He can still get extremely hot, and go for double digit scoring quarters. There is something to be said for that). Grant developed and looked great all year.

Having stars doesn't mean they play well. See Nets and Lakers and Rockets in the past.

Their bench has been coming along the last month plus.

OK this one is just wrong.

Brewer has been a nice free pickup. Yet right until they beat Miami almost everyone on this board went out of their way to critique or discredit almost everything they did. From Westbrook, to melo, to George, to brewer, to the bench (here's a shocker for the over reactionary idiots, who post the bench stats every game: those guys won't play a bunch in the playoffs!) Kizz apparently is still going down with the ship that grant stinks!!

Melo has been bad. Really bad. You're calling people idiots for things that are correct. Not everyone has been on that with Russ, that's basically Justin. Brewer's been iffy, and I agree on Grant. So here I'm sorta with you.

I understand being critical, and it's fine, but as I've been saying, the grass isn't greener almost everywhere else. They have a chance to do damage in the playoffs. Last year they didnt.

This I 100 percent agree with.

What you confused fans have seen from this year was a veteran group, with legit stars, led by an overmatched coach with no control of that group. They weren't accountable from an effort perspective, and that was pretty clear. The results were inconsistency, and some terrible losses. The playoffs fix the effort problem.

They focus will be there every game, and that too was predictable all along, making the tanking, win 1 game at most in the playoffs, every player but adams and Roberson sucks crowd (the overwhelming majority on here, and you get attacked/ignored if you think otherwise) look foolish in their over reactionary (the reg season doesn't matter that much to these guys, folks), constant, and small picture critiquing of this team. Thats no way to enjoy your favorite team, especially with what could be their best roster for the next 10 years. Its tough to see all year on here.[/quote]
I don't know who these "you" are, but this reads like a strawman when really you were the one who called them for winning 55-60 games preseason before a guy who you thought is pretty useless went out and no other real injury issues.

I agree the criticism has made it a bit of a burden to be around here. Honestly it's made me post on the team board less than I may otherwise and post on others more. But parts of this post aren't true.

[hardenASG13]

Many are terribly negative. You can critical and not think they are a great team, just been trying to give you guys proper perspective. They've been playing up/down to comp all year. They don't have a strong coach. That will happen. They have been right in the mix with everyone in the West, outside GS and Hou.

OK,pretty much agree here.

The accepted stance on them (on this board)is that they were at best a first round out, and several preferred they missed the Playoffs.

They're now the 4 seed, and may be that. I don't mind if someone wanted them to tank if they were constant in that belief. Some wanted a rebuild for 2 years.

All this despite them having a legit superstar, complemented by a legit all star, a very good young center, and what's left of melo (He can still get extremely hot, and go for double digit scoring quarters. There is something to be said for that). Grant developed and looked great all year.

Having stars doesn't mean they play well. See Nets and Lakers and Rockets in the past.

Their bench has been coming along the last month plus.

OK this one is just wrong.

Brewer has been a nice free pickup. Yet right until they beat Miami almost everyone on this board went out of their way to critique or discredit almost everything they did. From Westbrook, to melo, to George, to brewer, to the bench (here's a shocker for the over reactionary idiots, who post the bench stats every game: those guys won't play a bunch in the playoffs!) Kizz apparently is still going down with the ship that grant stinks!!

Melo has been bad. Really bad. You're calling people idiots for things that are correct. Not everyone has been on that with Russ, that's basically Justin. Brewer's been iffy, and I agree on Grant. So here I'm sorta with you.

I understand being critical, and it's fine, but as I've been saying, the grass isn't greener almost everywhere else. They have a chance to do damage in the playoffs. Last year they didnt.

This I 100 percent agree with.

What you confused fans have seen from this year was a veteran group, with legit stars, led by an overmatched coach with no control of that group. They weren't accountable from an effort perspective, and that was pretty clear. The results were inconsistency, and some terrible losses. The playoffs fix the effort problem.

They focus will be there every game, and that too was predictable all along, making the tanking, win 1 game at most in the playoffs, every player but adams and Roberson sucks crowd (the overwhelming majority on here, and you get attacked/ignored if you think otherwise) look foolish in their over reactionary (the reg season doesn't matter that much to these guys, folks), constant, and small picture critiquing of this team. Thats no way to enjoy your favorite team, especially with what could be their best roster for the next 10 years. Its tough to see all year on here.

I don't know who these "you" are, but this reads like a strawman when really you were the one who called them for winning 55-60 games preseason before a guy who you thought is pretty useless went out and no other real injury issues.

I agree the criticism has made it a bit of a burden to be around here. Honestly it's made me post on the team board less than I may otherwise and post on others more. But parts of this post aren't true.[/quote]

To your point stars don't always do well in the playoffs: none of the teams you mentioned (nets, Lakers, houston) had stars that were in their prime. Okc has 2, their best 2, by far.

As far as their bench coming along....you don't think patterson has become a consistent shooting threat and good defender? Haven't noticed abrines improved defense and ability to hot momentum 3s? Don't think Felton has been a good backup, or that grant hasn't been playing out his mind? That's the bench, those 4.

As for melo: yes, he has been bad. But like I told slick, you have to adjust expectations to what your seeing. He isn't what he was. I get it. Does that make me want to hammer the guy all year long? He is player that can get hot for stretches, really hot. It's good to have guys like that on your team in the playoffs. I've been disappointed with him too, but I'm not giving up on him. Happy he's on the team, think he's gonna hit some big shots.

Re injuries: yep, they had a pretty good year. As I was saying before he went out, Roberson was playing as the teams best 2 this year. It was the first year that they stopped spotting him up in the corner, killing the flow and pace of the offense, which was my whole problem with him. Would you argue that? He became almost exclusively a cutter, as he always should have, and stopped shooting 3s almost entirely. I was fine with him, it stinks he's out.

That said, I don't think his loss has really lowered their ceiling, as I still think they can play with anyone. It will take some guys consistently coming through from that bench 4, and some hot stretches from melo. That's not that far fetched, and hasn't been.

[bondom34]

To your point stars don't always do well in the playoffs: none of the teams you mentioned (nets, Lakers, houston) had stars that were in their prime. Okc has 2, their best 2, by far.

As far as their bench coming along....you don't think patterson has become a consistent shooting threat and good defender? Haven't noticed abrines improved defense and ability to hot momentum 3s? Don't think Felton has been a good backup, or that grant hasn't been playing out his mind? That's the bench, those 4.

As for melo: yes, he has been bad. But like I told slick, you have to adjust expectations to what your seeing. He isn't what he was. I get it. Does that make me want to hammer the guy all year long? He is player that can get hot for stretches, really hot. It's good to have guys like that on your team in the playoffs. I've been disappointed with him too, but I'm not giving up on him. Happy he's on the team, think he's gonna hit some big shots.

Re injuries: yep, they had a pretty good year. As I was saying before he went out, Roberson was playing as the teams best 2 this year. It was the first year that they stopped spotting him up in the corner, killing the flow and pace of the offense, which was my whole problem with him. Would you argue that? He became almost exclusively a cutter, as he always should have, and stopped shooting 3s almost entirely. I was fine with him, it stinks he's out.

That said, I don't think his loss has really lowered their ceiling, as I still think they can play with anyone. It will take some guys consistently coming through from that bench 4, and some hot stretches from melo. That's not that far fetched, and hasn't been.

Melo's been bad to the point of he should be benched so yea, he's been that bad. After losing Roberson, they've been by far worse and have been totally unable to defend top end teams, which is the definition of lowering their ceiling.

As for the bench, without Russ out there the team is still dreadful. Has been all year. Those guys individually are fine, as long as they've played with Russ. Without him not so much.

And Houston had Harden and Dwight in their primes, the Clippers had Blake and Paul for years. Doesn't really mean much. I hope they pull some wins but it guarantees nothing.

[hardenASG13]

To your point stars don't always do well in the playoffs: none of the teams you mentioned (nets, Lakers, houston) had stars that were in their prime. Okc has 2, their best 2, by far.

As far as their bench coming along....you don't think patterson has become a consistent shooting threat and good defender? Haven't noticed abrines improved defense and ability to hot momentum 3s? Don't think Felton has been a good backup, or that grant hasn't been playing out his mind? That's the bench, those 4.

As for melo: yes, he has been bad. But like I told slick, you have to adjust expectations to what your seeing. He isn't what he was. I get it. Does that make me want to hammer the guy all year long? He is player that can get hot for stretches, really hot. It's good to have guys like that on your team in the playoffs. I've been disappointed with him too, but I'm not giving up on him. Happy he's on the team, think he's gonna hit some big shots.

Re injuries: yep, they had a pretty good year. As I was saying before he went out, Roberson was playing as the teams best 2 this year. It was the first year that they stopped spotting him up in the corner, killing the flow and pace of the offense, which was my whole problem with him. Would you argue that? He became almost exclusively a cutter, as he always should have, and stopped shooting 3s almost entirely. I was fine with him, it stinks he's out.

That said, I don't think his loss has really lowered their ceiling, as I still think they can play with anyone. It will take some guys consistently coming through from that bench 4, and some hot stretches from melo. That's not that far fetched, and hasn't been.

Melo's been bad to the point of he should be benched so yea, he's been that bad. After losing Roberson, they've been by far worse and have been totally unable to defend top end teams, which is the definition of lowering their ceiling.

As for the bench, without Russ out there the team is still dreadful. Has been all year. Those guys individually are fine, as long as they've played with Russ. Without him not so much.

And Houston had Harden and Dwight in their primes, the Clippers had Blake and Paul for years. Doesn't really mean much. I hope they pull some wins but it guarantees nothing.

I don't think Dwight was playing as good as he was in Orlando. I've always thought blake and Paul were over rated, Blake has quickly deteriorated and Paul couldn't lead lac pasta badly injured Utah team (I made a giant thread on the gb predicting it, and basically everyone opposed me, including you, then it magically got merged to a thread with a different title almost the second Utah beat him after he disappeared in game 7 completely). I don't trust him in the playoffs, which gives me more hope.

Yeah, I know their defensive ceiling isn't as high. But I also like their ability to play offense with 3 players capable of shooting around Russ and adams. I don't care about the regular season offensive ratings. This is about half court shot making, and transition 3s. It's a a different game in the playoffs! It's not a cliche, playing the same team every night makes it an entirely different game Having stars doesn't guarantee anything, sure, but to doubt it all year, for your own favorite team, is being embarrassingly over dramatic and reactionary, strongly opposing the mere suggestion of looking at the season big picture. They have guys capable of dominating playoff games or series regardless of the opponent. It matters more than their regular season net ratings or MOV, in my opinion.

Edit: to the point about Russ needing to play. Yes I think he does. He should play 40-42 min a game, maybe more if he needs to in a given game in the playoffs. That solves that problem.

[bondom34]

To your point stars don't always do well in the playoffs: none of the teams you mentioned (nets, Lakers, houston) had stars that were in their prime. Okc has 2, their best 2, by far.

As far as their bench coming along....you don't think patterson has become a consistent shooting threat and good defender? Haven't noticed abrines improved defense and ability to hot momentum 3s? Don't think Felton has been a good backup, or that grant hasn't been playing out his mind? That's the bench, those 4.

As for melo: yes, he has been bad. But like I told slick, you have to adjust expectations to what your seeing. He isn't what he was. I get it. Does that make me want to hammer the guy all year long? He is player that can get hot for stretches, really hot. It's good to have guys like that on your team in the playoffs. I've been disappointed with him too, but I'm not giving up on him. Happy he's on the team, think he's gonna hit some big shots.

Re injuries: yep, they had a pretty good year. As I was saying before he went out, Roberson was playing as the teams best 2 this year. It was the first year that they stopped spotting him up in the corner, killing the flow and pace of the offense, which was my whole problem with him. Would you argue that? He became almost exclusively a cutter, as he always should have, and stopped shooting 3s almost entirely. I was fine with him, it stinks he's out.

That said, I don't think his loss has really lowered their ceiling, as I still think they can play with anyone. It will take some guys consistently coming through from that bench 4, and some hot stretches from melo. That's not that far fetched, and hasn't been.

Melo's been bad to the point of he should be benched so yea, he's been that bad. After losing Roberson, they've been by far worse and have been totally unable to defend top end teams, which is the definition of lowering their ceiling.

As for the bench, without Russ out there the team is still dreadful. Has been all year. Those guys individually are fine, as long as they've played with Russ. Without him not so much.

And Houston had Harden and Dwight in their primes, the Clippers had Blake and Paul for years. Doesn't really mean much. I hope they pull some wins but it guarantees nothing.

I don't think Dwight was playing as good as he was in Orlando. I've always thought blake and Paul were over rated, Blake has quickly deteriorated and Paul couldn't lead lac pasta badly injured Utah team (I made a giant thread on the gb predicting it, and basically everyone opposed me, including you, then it magically got merged to a thread with a different title almost the second Utah beat him after he disappeared in game 7 completely). I don't trust him in the playoffs, which gives me more hope.

Yeah, I know their defensive ceiling isn't as high. But I also like their ability to play offense with 3 players capable of shooting around Russ and adams. I don't care about the regular season offensive ratings. This is about half court shot making, and transition 3s. It's a a different game in the playoffs! It's not a cliche, playing the same team every night makes it an entirely different game Having stars doesn't guarantee anything, sure, but to doubt it all year, for your own favorite team, is being embarrassingly over dramatic and reactionary, strongly opposing the mere suggestion of looking at the season big picture. They have guys capable of dominating playoff games or series regardless of the opponent. It matters more than their regular season net ratings or MOV, in my opinion.

Edit: to the point about Russ needing to play. Yes I think he does. He should play 40-42 min a game, maybe more if he needs to in a given game in the playoffs. That solves that problem.

Their offense has barely been better without Roberson. He contributes to their fast break offense, he's not a negative in that regard. Every single time they've looked good in any big game or series, he's been a main reason why. They have 2 of the best 3 players in this series and it might be enough and I hope it is but you're still way off on Dre.

[slick_watts]

this whole conversation is ridiculous. i want to talk about basketball. i have opinions about basketball. some of them are critical of the thunder. but criticism only seems to be ok to certain people when it's a criticism they share.

you disagree? fine. we can have a discussion. you don't like criticism? fine, ignore it and move on. nobody is forcing you to respond to it. don't like reading it? fine. there are probably a lot of other places on the internet where you can talk about the thunder without having to deal with opinions you don't like. you can go to r/thunder where any divisive thought is down voted into oblivion.

i have zero interest in this 'meta' discussion on what the 'appropriate perspective' is for a fan of the thunder. it's corny and pointless.

bondom34, you claim that "criticism is a burden" yet here you are during the end of the year claiming you won't even watch the team anymore or devote any more emotional energy into it. what can be more critical than that?

enough of this nonsense. can we just keep it to basketball, please?

[hardenASG13]

this whole conversation is ridiculous. i want to talk about basketball. i have opinions about basketball. some of them are critical of the thunder. but criticism only seems to be ok to certain people when it's a criticism they share.

you disagree? fine. we can have a discussion. you don't like criticism? fine, ignore it and move on. nobody is forcing you to respond to it. don't like reading it? fine. there are probably a lot of other places on the internet where you can talk about the thunder without having to deal with opinions you don't like. you can go to r/thunder where any divisive thought is down voted into oblivion.

i have zero interest in this 'meta' discussion on what the 'appropriate perspective' is for a fan of the thunder. it's corny and pointless.

bondom34, you claim that "criticism is a burden" yet here you are during the end of the year claiming you won't even watch the team anymore or devote any more emotional energy into it. what can be more critical than that?

enough of this nonsense. can we just keep it to basketball, please?

Criticism is fine, when it's due. In this case, getting so worked up, to the point where as you say, people literally were saying they can't watch the games, or wanted a team with so much potential, their favorite team, to miss the Playoffs. That's beyond critical, it's annoying, embarrissgly over reactionary nonsense that ignores the importance of the regular season compared to the Playoffs, which are and have been what this season is all about. This board is full of critics, with no solutions, just point out all the things they are so bad at, while blindly ignoring the flaws of almost every other team/situation.

[bondom34]

bondom34, you claim that "criticism is a burden" yet here you are during the end of the year claiming you won't even watch the team anymore or devote any more emotional energy into it. what can be more critical than that?

enough of this nonsense. can we just keep it to basketball, please?

I think the issue is when the entirety of someone's account is devoted wholeheartedly to being excessively negative. It's your choice entirely, but it's miserable to be around. It's honestly why I stopped posting at DT. It's just not fun. It changed me as a fan, and not in a good way.

Also I never said it was a burden. It is something that drives me (and others) away from discussion. Its not enjoyable to talk with someone who simply tells you how much things suck.

[slick_watts]

Criticism is fine, when it's due.

and who decides when it's due? you? again, give me a break. this is stupid. you were on this board one week after brewer was signed celebrating the thunder finally having a legitimate sg. is that not embarrassingly reactionary? and i don't even care that it is, i'll point it out, say my piece, and move on. not have a virtual town hall meeting on the legitimacy of your right to share your opinions.

this is like twelve year old b.s. stop it.

[slick_watts]

I think the issue is when the entirety of someone's account is devoted wholeheartedly to being excessively negative. It's your choice entirely, but it's miserable to be around. It's honestly why I stopped posting at DT. It's just not fun. It changed me as a fan, and not in a good way.

the amusing thing is that there were seasons in the past where i was criticized for being excessively positive on DT. 2012-13 in particular. and late in brooks' thunder career when i would defend him.

my thoughts on the team took a turn when kd left and how they've operated since. i don't like it. and whether i like something (andre roberson, adams, even george) or don't like something, i'm not going to shy away from it. it's not a devotion towards being excessively negative. it's the condition of the team eliciting a mostly negative opinions from me.

but why should that even matter? they are just opinions. i think that there are excellent points that are brought up on both sides in some debates about westbrook or sam presti that otherwise wouldn't be brought up. the research on the part of many on the effects of westbrook's defensive rebounding has spawned new hustle metrics and the like on its own.

[bondom34]

I think the issue is when the entirety of someone's account is devoted wholeheartedly to being excessively negative. It's your choice entirely, but it's miserable to be around. It's honestly why I stopped posting at DT. It's just not fun. It changed me as a fan, and not in a good way.

the amusing thing is that there were seasons in the past where i was criticized for being excessively positive on DT. 2012-13 in particular. and late in brooks' thunder career when i would defend him.

my thoughts on the team took a turn when kd left and how they've operated since. i don't like it. and whether i like something (andre roberson, adams, even george) or don't like something, i'm not going to shy away from it. it's not a devotion towards being excessively negative. it's the condition of the team eliciting a mostly negative opinions from me.

but why should that even matter? they are just opinions. i think that there are excellent points that are brought up on both sides in some debates about westbrook or sam presti that otherwise wouldn't be brought up. the research on the part of many on the effects of westbrook's defensive rebounding has spawned new hustle metrics and the like on its own.

I never knew you then honestly.

And like I said you're totally entitled to them, but people feel that way about it and that's just the general reaction. It's not just a single person or 2 but a pretty large group (even majority judging by this thread). It drove me away a bit and seems to have a similar effect on others.

[slick_watts]

And like I said you're totally entitled to them, but people feel that way about it and that's just the general reaction. It's not just a single person or 2 but a pretty large group (even majority judging by this thread). It drove me away a bit and seems to have a similar effect on others.

the opposite drives me away. i can't stand thunder reddit.

[bondom34]

And like I said you're totally entitled to them, but people feel that way about it and that's just the general reaction. It's not just a single person or 2 but a pretty large group (even majority judging by this thread). It drove me away a bit and seems to have a similar effect on others.

the opposite drives me away. i can't stand thunder reddit.

I don't know how anyone can.

Either extreme gets me.

[hardenASG13]

Criticism is fine, when it's due.

and who decides when it's due? you? again, give me a break. this is stupid. you were on this board one week after brewer was signed celebrating the thunder finally having a legitimate sg. is that not embarrassingly reactionary? and i don't even care that it is, i'll point it out, say my piece, and move on. not have a virtual town hall meeting on the legitimacy of your right to share your opinions.

this is like twelve year old b.s. stop it.

They have looked much better since brewer came on board, bruh. Beyond happy with him, seeing how they missed on everyone else. They are 11-5 with him in the starting lineup, with wins vs. Sa, Miami twice, @NO, and at @Hou in there. 5 losses were by a combined 12 points. He's been a nice addition.

[InTheSabonus]

And like I said you're totally entitled to them, but people feel that way about it and that's just the general reaction. It's not just a single person or 2 but a pretty large group (even majority judging by this thread). It drove me away a bit and seems to have a similar effect on others.

the opposite drives me away. i can't stand thunder reddit.

You can now get banned there for being too negative.

I don't think any of us here would last very long.