4/11 - 7PM CST | G82: Memphis Grizzlies at Oklahoma City Thunder

[Atomic Punk]

i can't ascribe motive.



in the early 90's i was active in what was called the demoscene, and it was common to type this way. so i did. and i still do. what's it matter? why are we even talking about this?

Because it is so stupid. And because it’s so easy to bait you into nonsense arguments like this.

what are we arguing about, exactly? you think it's stupid, i'm not arguing that you don't think that, or shouldn't.

i think in some way you look up to me. you're always probing. seeking approval.

No, I actually feel a little sorry for you. You are angry and bitter. You find joy in nothing. You feel the need to always have the last word, even when it exposes your agenda even further. I couldn’t care less if you approve of anything I say. You only seek approval from the echo chamber of your own mind.

[bondom34]

Yeah the negativity is getting a little crazy now.

[Atomic Punk]

i can't tell you why you should care about anything. but, i did say it hurts the team defensively. that's what you replied to, therefore that's what i assumed you were asking for proof of. whoops, i bet atomic punk is gonna get on me for ending a sentence with a preposition.

and the defense being worse is an aesthetic difference? ok.

Of course you could tell me why I should care about something.

And yes, a worse defense but not a worse team implies better offense. I think you'd agree that a team with a net rating of +5 is just as good rather they get that with a 95 D rating or 105?

i think i see what you are implying. that even if i could show that westbrook's defensive rebound hunting harms the defense, it's offset by its benefits to the offense?

Umm....YES!

[slick_watts]

Because it is so stupid. And because it’s so easy to bait you into nonsense arguments like this.

what are we arguing about, exactly? you think it's stupid, i'm not arguing that you don't think that, or shouldn't.

i think in some way you look up to me. you're always probing. seeking approval.

No, I actually feel a little sorry for you. You are angry and bitter. You find joy in nothing. You feel the need to always have the last word, even when it exposes your agenda even further. I couldn’t care less if you approve of anything I say. You only seek approval from the echo chamber of your own mind.

yes, the echo chamber. i'm sure you won't see criticisms of westbrook similar to mine elsewhere on the nba blogosphere tonight and tomorrow. or on realgm itself. not even at this very moment.

save the armchair psychoanalyzing.

[slick_watts]

Of course you could tell me why I should care about something.

And yes, a worse defense but not a worse team implies better offense. I think you'd agree that a team with a net rating of +5 is just as good rather they get that with a 95 D rating or 105?

i think i see what you are implying. that even if i could show that westbrook's defensive rebound hunting harms the defense, it's offset by its benefits to the offense?

Umm....YES!

the effect of westbrook's defensive rebounding on the offense last year was well studied. i charted all of westbrook's defensive rebounds myself and what occurred on the ensuing possession, got team pp100 and eFG% after a westbrook defensive rebound, etc. it did not show much of any difference from team pp100 and eFG% after a defensive rebound by a teammate with westbrook on the court. this research was done by others as well. it's a lot more well researched than the effect on defense since the offense was a linchpin of the mvp debate.

[Dn4sty]

a shameful display. westbrook is the most egregious stat padder in the nba since wilt. it was fun last year but this was just sorry. if i was a memphis player i'd have clocked westbrook for showing them up.

there should be an asterisk next to westbrook's achievement with the number of uncontested defensive rebounds per game next to it.

To the general board you go!

Also, your forget about David Robinson?

david robinson had additional nuance. he had a personal beef / battle with shaq that season. which is why he did that. it was one game.

this is two years of this crap with westbrook. gunning for defensive rebounds like he does hurts the team defensively and everyone knows it. some people ignore it.

This is the weakest defense of a position I’ve seen in a while.

[Dn4sty]

which part?

Everything ever.

good article on the shaq-robinson thing: https://www.sbnation.com/2018/2/3/16965786/shaq-david-robinson-beef-history-magic-lakers-spurs-71-points

and you really want proof that westbrook makes the defense worse by chasing defensive rebounds? seriously? lets put it this way: how often does it help.

How about you put the burden of proof on yourself? It’s silly to make a claim or take a certain position and then ask someone else to verify it for you.

[Atomic Punk]

what are we arguing about, exactly? you think it's stupid, i'm not arguing that you don't think that, or shouldn't.

i think in some way you look up to me. you're always probing. seeking approval.

No, I actually feel a little sorry for you. You are angry and bitter. You find joy in nothing. You feel the need to always have the last word, even when it exposes your agenda even further. I couldn’t care less if you approve of anything I say. You only seek approval from the echo chamber of your own mind.

yes, the echo chamber. i'm sure you won't see criticisms of westbrook similar to mine elsewhere on the nba blogosphere tonight and tomorrow. or on realgm itself. not even at this very moment.

save the armchair psychoanalyzing.

I couldn’t give two **** about what anyone is saying elsewhere on the NBA blogosphere. That’s just the point. Go somewhere else and spew your hate, anger and frustration.

You went down the armchair psychoanalysis road before I did. You want to keep going or are you taking
the next exit?

[bondom34]

Also a random note, but it was funny to hear Cage say it was a nice gesture for Bickerstaff to have Nick shoot FTs. Like it wasn't because he's barely been on court all year.

And really, Russ getting the rebound is the gameplan. It is. Let it be. GSW did it with Curry too.

[spearsy23]

i can't tell you why you should care about anything. but, i did say it hurts the team defensively. that's what you replied to, therefore that's what i assumed you were asking for proof of. whoops, i bet atomic punk is gonna get on me for ending a sentence with a preposition.

and the defense being worse is an aesthetic difference? ok.

Of course you could tell me why I should care about something.

And yes, a worse defense but not a worse team implies better offense. I think you'd agree that a team with a net rating of +5 is just as good rather they get that with a 95 D rating or 105?

i think i see what you are implying. that even if i could show that westbrook's defensive rebound hunting harms the defense, it's offset by its benefits to the offense?

I'd have to look for the stars but I believe there was a non insignificant increase in offensive output after a Westbrook rebound. I would like to see your numbers defensively though, I'm mostly interested in how you quantified the amount he was 'hunting' for rebounds though.

[slick_watts]

Everything ever.

good article on the shaq-robinson thing: https://www.sbnation.com/2018/2/3/16965786/shaq-david-robinson-beef-history-magic-lakers-spurs-71-points

and you really want proof that westbrook makes the defense worse by chasing defensive rebounds? seriously? lets put it this way: how often does it help.

How about you put the burden of proof on yourself? It’s silly to make a claim or take a certain position and then ask someone else to verify it for you.

it's a very obvious thing, defensively. everyone sees how often westbrook leaves his man to chase defensive rebounds. not every time, but often enough to be noticeable. which is why there's less research on that and a whole lot more on the offensive side which was how the thunder were justifying his going after them.

i have some research on the effect on the defense, but like i said it was never really a hot button issue in the triple double discussion since it was taken for granted as harmful to some degree.

[Dn4sty]

Also a random note, but it was funny to hear Cage say it was a nice gesture for Bickerstaff to have Nick shoot FTs. Like it wasn't because he's barely been on court all year.

And really, Russ getting the rebound is the gameplan. It is. Let it be. GSW did it with Curry too.

Nothing Cage would say would ever surprise me. I’ve grown numb to it at this point and just take them for what they are....

Also I’ve noticed it’s just as bad pretty much on every other Fox Sports affiliate for every other team.

[dakomish23]

Boy it sure is toxic up in here suddenly. Can we be happy? There is a very good chance we could come away with the 4th seed pending Portland vs Utah.

After the ups and downs of this season, that is pretty remarkable.

Suddenly? Ok. But yeah, I think this team is about to do some damage in the post season. I have actually been on that lonely island all season.

Excuse me?

[slick_watts]

Of course you could tell me why I should care about something.

And yes, a worse defense but not a worse team implies better offense. I think you'd agree that a team with a net rating of +5 is just as good rather they get that with a 95 D rating or 105?

i think i see what you are implying. that even if i could show that westbrook's defensive rebound hunting harms the defense, it's offset by its benefits to the offense?

I'd have to look for the stars but I believe there was a non insignificant increase in offensive output after a Westbrook rebound. I would like to see your numbers defensively though, I'm mostly interested in how you quantified the amount he was 'hunting' for rebounds though.

charting. watching plays. i think i did two month's worth of opponent shot attempts with westbrook in the game. it's not exhaustive. but illustrative.

[Atomic Punk]

Boy it sure is toxic up in here suddenly. Can we be happy? There is a very good chance we could come away with the 4th seed pending Portland vs Utah.

After the ups and downs of this season, that is pretty remarkable.

Suddenly? Ok. But yeah, I think this team is about to do some damage in the post season. I have actually been on that lonely island all season.

Excuse me?

Have you been on that island as well?

[slick_watts]

I couldn’t give two **** about what anyone is saying elsewhere on the NBA blogosphere. That’s just the point. Go somewhere else and spew your hate, anger and frustration.

i'll post my thoughts where ever i want to post them. i'm a thunder fan, and this is a thunder board.

You went down the armchair psychoanalysis road before I did. You want to keep going or are you taking
the next exit?

bruh you asked me why i type in lowercase. probing as usual. went on from there. but, if you want any more, i may have to ask you to buy me dinner first.

[Atomic Punk]

i think i see what you are implying. that even if i could show that westbrook's defensive rebound hunting harms the defense, it's offset by its benefits to the offense?

Umm....YES!

the effect of westbrook's defensive rebounding on the offense last year was well studied. i charted all of westbrook's defensive rebounds myself and what occurred on the ensuing possession, got team pp100 and eFG% after a westbrook defensive rebound, etc. it did not show much of any difference from team pp100 and eFG% after a defensive rebound by a teammate with westbrook on the court. this research was done by others as well. it's a lot more well researched than the effect on defense since the offense was a linchpin of the mvp debate.

And what about your analysis of the Zapruder film? What does that tell you?

[dakomish23]

Suddenly? Ok. But yeah, I think this team is about to do some damage in the post season. I have actually been on that lonely island all season.

Excuse me?

Have you been on that island as well?

Yep. I didn’t attend the town hall meetings though

[Atomic Punk]

I couldn’t give two **** about what anyone is saying elsewhere on the NBA blogosphere. That’s just the point. Go somewhere else and spew your hate, anger and frustration.

i'll post my thoughts where ever i want to post them. i'm a thunder fan, and this is a thunder board.

You went down the armchair psychoanalysis road before I did. You want to keep going or are you taking
the next exit?

bruh you asked me why i type in lowercase. probing as usual. went on from there. but, if you want any more, i may have to ask you to buy me dinner first.

Dinner with you would be awesome.

[Atomic Punk]

i think i see what you are implying. that even if i could show that westbrook's defensive rebound hunting harms the defense, it's offset by its benefits to the offense?

I'd have to look for the stars but I believe there was a non insignificant increase in offensive output after a Westbrook rebound. I would like to see your numbers defensively though, I'm mostly interested in how you quantified the amount he was 'hunting' for rebounds though.

charting. watching plays. i think i did two month's worth of opponent shot attempts with westbrook in the game. it's not exhaustive. but illustrative.

Do you ever just watch the game? You know, for fun?