2018 Offseason Thread

[spearsy23]

If you get playable guys it allows you to move other salary.

Which doesn't matter if you vastly overpay for the "playable guys". The main objective of Operation Melo has always been getting rid of his salary and thereby greatly reducing the luxury tax bill. You're not getting there if you take on crap like this and then try to make up for it with the little leftover salary you have. You can save a few bucks, sure, but probably not enough.

You pick up lin and you can afford to use abrines to dump singler without needing to sign a playable replacement.

You pick up Lin and you can't afford ****. That's like claiming any team that trades for Andre Roberson now is able to trade some other wing because they have a replacement. As of right now, you don't have anything. These guys might get back to 80 % of their former selves, they might also not get another contract in the NBA because they're done.

A) you have no idea what ownership is willing to pay, so your premise may or may not be false.

B) 80% of Lin is still a playable guy. And if presti makes that trade he obviously feels Lin can still play.

[spearsy23]

Also, Lin's injury was on opening night

[ThunderBolt]

The main objective of Operation Melo has always been getting rid of his salary and thereby greatly reducing the luxury tax bill.

Are we actually sure of this? Royce has said all along that okc traded for Melo with the idea of paying him for both years. Now that he’s unhappy, the goal might still be to put the best team on the court as possible.

[bondom34]

Yeah I think it's a mix. If they reduce salary and get a useful player great. If not cut bait.

But if it's Lin it's gonna be interesting here. My need a discord channel for us.

[Pillendreher]

If you get playable guys it allows you to move other salary.

Which doesn't matter if you vastly overpay for the "playable guys". The main objective of Operation Melo has always been getting rid of his salary and thereby greatly reducing the luxury tax bill. You're not getting there if you take on crap like this and then try to make up for it with the little leftover salary you have. You can save a few bucks, sure, but probably not enough.

You pick up lin and you can afford to use abrines to dump singler without needing to sign a playable replacement.

You pick up Lin and you can't afford ****. That's like claiming any team that trades for Andre Roberson now is able to trade some other wing because they have a replacement. As of right now, you don't have anything. These guys might get back to 80 % of their former selves, they might also not get another contract in the NBA because they're done.

A) you have no idea what ownership is willing to pay, so your premise may or may not be false.

I think it's pretty obvious that they're trying to shed salary. One can not know how much they're willing to pay, but one can guess based on recent NBA history and the overall amount they'd have to pay.

B) 80% of Lin is still a playable guy. And if presti makes that trade he obviously feels Lin can still play.

The more likely reasoning is shedding 16 million of salary and not taking on additional years. That'd be the equivalent to a Iman Shumpert deal: Taking on a bad contract, but still saving money in the processs.

[Pillendreher]

The main objective of Operation Melo has always been getting rid of his salary and thereby greatly reducing the luxury tax bill.

Are we actually sure of this? Royce has said all along that okc traded for Melo with the idea of paying him for both years. Now that he’s unhappy, the goal might still be to put the best team on the court as possible.

I think it's both. I don't think the team would be unwilling to take back something at a reasonable cost.

Re the trade: I don't think the team had a choice in that regard. They could not let people know that they weren't going to pay up. I think it's naive to assume that they just didn't care.

[slick_watts]

the question is whether or not the thunder will spend tens of millions more in luxury tax payments (versus simply stretching melo) for marginal roster upgrades.

i'm dubious. and i don't know why brooklyn would trade us two expirings for melo without significant compensation. especially when carroll is useful.

[Dadouv47]

Nets should give us draft picks, not the opposite. Having Melo on a lottery team is like having Lebron on a contender. MVP

[slick_watts]

Nets should give us draft picks, not the opposite. Having Melo on a lottery team is like having Lebron on a contender. MVP

melo would not waive his ntc unless there was a buyout agreement in place. the nets wouldn't keep him.

[getrichordie]

I imagine we still end up having to stretch Melo. No one wants to pay that dude 27.9 million.

I disagree. The Heat, Lakers, Brooklyn, Clippers and the Knicks would all LOVE to have Melo's $27.9 million on their books. Presti will move Melo and you will be asking yourself how did Sam do what he just did.

Presti is Gawd. He knew that people would want to use Melo's contract for 2019 free agency reasons.

[Old Man Game]

B) 80% of Lin is still a playable guy. And if presti makes that trade he obviously feels Lin can still play.

He'll be 30 in August and coming off a major injury. 80% of him might be optimistic.

Also, what happened to him the year before? I see he only played 36 games total in 16-17 prior to the 1 game played last year. This dude is losing tread off the tires at a rapid pace.

[ozwizard8]

the question is whether or not the thunder will spend tens of millions more in luxury tax payments (versus simply stretching melo) for marginal roster upgrades.

i'm dubious. and i don't know why brooklyn would trade us two expirings for melo without significant compensation. especially when carroll is useful.

You're absolutely right.
Those marginal roster upgrades could be find for a vet min deals through out the season.
You can get guys like C.Brewer etc.

And saving that much of money should be big deal for many teams in the league.
This team let Harden go for so much less money.
All time NBA record salary and luxury tax doesnt make sense.

Spending 100m more $ and getting 2nd round on playoffs doesnt sound like a good business.
I mean if there were a oppurtunity to get healthy Kawhi then spending $100m would make sense.
Letting Harden, R.Jackson go to avoid tax wasnt that good decisions. But spending 300m for salary and tax would be insane.

***

Speaking of marginal roster upgrades, OKC should find a new coach. It would bring more wins then keeping Melo.

Stat wise WB might be a top 5 player in the league, but his effect on the game is so less.
Harden, Curry and many other star players are key parts of their offensive system. They draw attention and let system flowing.
Here with WB on the court we cant elevate any other players game.

Bring a coach with a system. Challenge WB to play in different system and see how it goes.
With Donovan this team never gets easy wins. We only get W's with talent.

[bondom34]

Stat wise WB might be a top 5 player in the league, but his effect on the game is so less.
Harden, Curry and many other star players are key parts of their offensive system. They draw attention and let system flowing.
Here with WB on the court we cant elevate any other players game.

Bring a coach with a system. Challenge WB to play in different system and see how it goes.
With Donovan this team never gets easy wins. We only get W's with talent.

This is factually incorrect.

His impact metrics are on par with those others most years.

Westbrook was playing poorly and yet he and George were elite together. Adding Melo was the problem and until he learns to play a lesser role he will continue to be a drain on any team he's on.

[ozwizard8]

Stat wise WB might be a top 5 player in the league, but his effect on the game is so less.
Harden, Curry and many other star players are key parts of their offensive system. They draw attention and let system flowing.
Here with WB on the court we cant elevate any other players game.

Bring a coach with a system. Challenge WB to play in different system and see how it goes.
With Donovan this team never gets easy wins. We only get W's with talent.

This is factually incorrect.

His impact metrics are on par with those others most years.

Westbrook was playing poorly and yet he and George were elite together. Adding Melo was the problem and until he learns to play a lesser role he will continue to be a drain on any team he's on.

I'm talking about eye tests for his impact on the game. Not stats.
Sometimes stats cant catch everything. Or you need to point out special stats etc. Low %fg is what people always criticize WB.

Harden, Durant, Curry
Irving, Horford, Lebron
and other stars.
Coaches make offensive game plan to facilitate their presence on the court. We werent able to use WB in that way all year.

Rubio won the pg matchup against WB.
It was so easy to Jazz to stop WB with right rotations and Gobert's presence in paint.
We need a better offensive scheme that let our players score easier.
WB, George are top 15 players in the league but we were struggling to win against lottery teams last year.
In Game 2 of playoffs we had 10+ pts lead and give it away with bad rotations.
This team needs a better coach.
At least try to change sth.

We werent able to become elite with or without Melo.

[spearsy23]

Reggie Jackson being let go was neither a mistake or because of tax implications.

[bondom34]

Stat wise WB might be a top 5 player in the league, but his effect on the game is so less.
Harden, Curry and many other star players are key parts of their offensive system. They draw attention and let system flowing.
Here with WB on the court we cant elevate any other players game.

Bring a coach with a system. Challenge WB to play in different system and see how it goes.
With Donovan this team never gets easy wins. We only get W's with talent.

This is factually incorrect.

His impact metrics are on par with those others most years.

Westbrook was playing poorly and yet he and George were elite together. Adding Melo was the problem and until he learns to play a lesser role he will continue to be a drain on any team he's on.

I'm talking about eye tests for his impact on the game. Not stats.
Sometimes stats cant catch everything. Or you need to point out special stats etc. Low %fg is what people always criticize WB.

Harden, Durant, Curry
Irving, Horford, Lebron
and other stars.
Coaches make offensive game plan to facilitate their presence on the court. We werent able to use WB in that way all year.

Rubio won the pg matchup against WB.
It was so easy to Jazz to stop WB with right rotations and Gobert's presence in paint.
We need a better offensive scheme that let our players score easier.
WB, George are top 15 players in the league but we were struggling to win against lottery teams last year.
In Game 2 of playoffs we had 10+ pts lead and give it away with bad rotations.
This team needs a better coach.
At least try to change sth.

We werent able to become elite with or without Melo.

RAPM, RPM, impact metrics.

I don't care about a player's TS if he's got a positive impact on teammates, and Westbrook does (more than Durant many cases). The problem against the Jazz was a bit of Westbrook but again....Melo. Favors was murdering him and the only way to come back was with him on the bench. Utah literally had to do nothing to stop him. The offense was great with Westbrook and George, the issue was that when Westbrook sat it fell off a cliff (again, his impact).

A guy who actually puts up empty stats is oddly the guy they're trying to trade

[vincecarter4pres]

Wonder if it will be something like Crabbe and Whitehead for Melo, maybe a pick going Brooklyn's way?

[Osirus89]

Wonder if it will be something like Crabbe and Whitehead for Melo, maybe a pick going Brooklyn's way?

We are pretty encumbered as far as first round picks go. The best the FO can offer is 2nd rounders.

I'm struggling to see how a Jeremy lin and Carmelo trade would work. Brooklyn doesn't have the space to do the trade straight up and adding Carroll or Crabbe doesn't save us any money whatsoever. Add in the fact that Jeremy Lin would help the bench out but there is no chance in hell that I would part with either Diallo or Ferguson for a player coming off of a patellar tendon injury. This team already has its quota of those.

Generally the transactions that this team does are the ones that you don't hear about. I'm hoping that is the case in this scenario because Brooklyn is far from an ideal partner in any Melo trade. Maybe this leaked to let teams know that OKC is talking with multiple teams which means nobody can ask for a kings ransom. Giving up a future first or young players to take back long term or equal money in a Carmelo deal is a ludicrous proposition anyway. Don't even ask for any of that stuff unless you are willing to absorb the Carmelo contract with zero money coming back. There are no teams left that have that ability anymore.

[Kizz Fastfists]

I'm struggling to see how a Jeremy lin and Carmelo trade would work. Brooklyn doesn't have the space to do the trade straight up and adding Carroll or Crabbe doesn't save us any money whatsoever.

It would save money over the next two years. It would allow them to get completely out of the tax after this season. If they stretch Melo they will still be in the tax for two more years. How much it saves them depends on how deep they think they will be in the tax the next two years, while they would still have $9M of Melo on the books. I don't think it can result in a net savings, but it could reduce the bill the next two years enough that they feel it is worth it to "go for it" this year and then try to resign Lin and Carroll cheaper in the off-season or find a MLE guy to replace one of them and keep the other.

[getrichordie]

I'm struggling to see how a Jeremy lin and Carmelo trade would work. Brooklyn doesn't have the space to do the trade straight up and adding Carroll or Crabbe doesn't save us any money whatsoever.

It would save money over the next two years. It would allow them to get completely out of the tax after this season. If they stretch Melo they will still be in the tax for two more years. How much it saves them depends on how deep they think they will be in the tax the next two years, while they would still have $9M of Melo on the books. I don't think it can result in a net savings, but it could reduce the bill the next two years enough that they feel it is worth it to "go for it" this year and then try to resign Lin and Carroll cheaper in the off-season or find a MLE guy to replace one of them and keep the other.

You don't think Presti would stretch Lin?